Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

[Lloyd]

448739

SAFIRE SCAM: NOTICE TO EU FANS

https://www.sis-group.org.uk/news/2025/ ... project-3/
SIS posted this article lately. It's news to me and probably to most EU fans. Back when the project started, my friend Charles Chandler asked the leader/s of the project (I guess that was Monte Childs) to do a test for a cathode sun model, not just an anode model. Ralph Juergens and Wal Thornhill favored the anode model, but Charles and Brant Callahan and Michael Mozina favored cathode models. Childs or someone refused to test for a cathode model and Charles became suspicious of the project. He suspected that the leader/s of it were fakers, working for the mainstream, who actually wanted to disprove the EU theory. If you read the article below, it looks like Charles was right, or at least close.

Safire Project
16 October 2025

Electric Universe
Have you ever wondered why we have heard nothing more from the Safire Project? At the second Bath EU conference, too long ago now to remember much about it apart from an audience full of hope and going home with a spring in the step, the Safire Project was presented as a positive for the future. Ushering in a new era of science. It never happened. What went wrong?

There was of course a lot of waffle as per your average sales pitch, but we did get to hear about sailing trips in the US. The nitty gritty stuff was all hush hush, and trust us, we had made a breakthrough. A new way of producing energy and electricity was just around the corner. It was a bittersweet moment as a couple of months later threats of litigation were being dished out to dissenters. Those people who still had a shred of critical thinking in their heads. Bob Johnson, who has written several articles for C&C Review and gave several other talks at speaker meetings, was one of the first to get this medicine. It seems they went on to threaten their only plasma scientist who had become suspicious as what had been proclaimed as new science was only regurgitated old science dusted down and given a polish. He resigned and that left the research without anyone who knew anything about plasma. Worse was to come as it was revealed the Thunderbolts.info people had poured a lot of money into the project and it had fallen into a black hole. One foundation is reputed to have been stung for $4 million dollars. Or more. We don’t know who else with deep pockets got stung as Thunderbolts are too embarrased to say. All we know is that it is over and the Safire Project is spent. They found nothing to support the Electric Universe, but they have left behind a lot of duped people feeling despondent. This is probably why current Thunderbolts offerings on their web site are just rehashes of old posts. Anyone still expectant that Safire will come up with the goodies are going to be disappointed. It is not going to happen. It is over. Perhaps they are back to sailing.

I realise this is probably old news to some in the know, but there must be a lot of people who attended EU conferences in the US and Europe who are still wondering when the breakthrough is going to be released. Luckily, mainstream science is taking magnetism and electricity in space seriously as the Parker Solar Probe and the ESA like minded research is now opening up doors that had been closed. Safire is dead but the role of electro-magnetism is now a legitimate subject to burrow into. The science will out.

The problem with EU was the strange ideas it was embroiled in, such as the theory Earth was once a satellite of Saturn. And of course the Velikovskian idea that Venus, a planet, was born out of Jupiter. Most members of SIS went on to ignore all this stuff and stuck to ancient chronology. Catastrophism went out of the window for most people as there was nothing recorded in the Iron Age of massive upsets in the solar system. Velikovsky had brought his era of chaos too close to the written word and was therefore shot down in short measure. There was of course lots of evidence of lesser catastrophic events – too puny for a lot of people but capable of addressing anomalies in texts and nature. I see that as a possible way forwards. Here at SIS we have all grown old together and health issues and death await us. Over at Thunderbolts it would seem they have run up against a brick wall after spraying a lot of money at their ideas. Safire produced nothing. Zilch.

COMMENTS
It's too bad all that money was apparently wasted on a huge scam.

I disagree with the last paragraph. I consider the Saturn Theory to be pretty strong. Some aspects seem very strong, such as that Mars and Venus were close to Earth. That Saturn was also close is a little less certain. That global cataclysms occurred while they were in our sky is very strong, and these were the Younger Dryas cataclysms, which I date to 2,500 BC, well before the Iron Age. Venus' heat certainly didn't result from solar heating, which I think I once read is only about 20 watts per square meter at the surface of Venus. Charles did not support the theory that a planet can fission or be ejected from a gas giant. He discussed the idea that a gas giant can lose atmosphere to become a rocky planet. AI says about 4,000 miles from their centers, Saturn and Jupiter temperatures are estimated at 20,000 to 30,000K and Uranus and Neptune at 5,000 to 10,000K. So internally they have plenty of heat which should keep their remnants, like Venus, hot for quite a while.

PS, it looks like this was the last discussion of the Safire project on this forum: What’s Going On With The Safire Project ? viewtopic.php?t=993

[Lloyd]

SOME MORE STUFF ALREADY

LUMINANCE OF BROWN DWARF AT 3 MILLION MILES FROM EARTH

I picked 3 million miles because the relative sizes of Saturn, Venus and Mars in ancient myths would require that Venus be about half the distance to Saturn and Mars be over half the distance to Venus and Mars should have appeared gigantic if and when it came closer than the Moon. The apparent diameter of the Moon is 31 arcminutes. If Mars were at the Moon's distance, it would appear 60.6 arcminutes diameter, about double the size of the Moon. If Mars were at 900,000 miles, it would appear 16.1 arcminutes in diameter. If Venus were at 1.5 millions miles from Earth it would appear 17.2 arcminutes in diameter, just a little bigger than Mars. And myths say that Venus looked like a bright crown or band around Mars. At 3 million miles Saturn would have looked 85.8 arcminutes in diameter. Then Venus would have looked 5 times smaller than Saturn.

I compared the luminance of a brown dwarf to the Sun, the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn (as well as a red dwarf) at various distances in order to see if the answers make sense. Initially AI calculated the Moon's luminance as being greater than that of Jupiter and Saturn etc, so I told it to try again. It then corrected its calculations, I think. Here's a table.

Object ----- Distance from Earth --- Estimated Luminance
Sun xxxxxxx --- 93 million miles --- 1.6×10^9 cd/m²
Moon xxxxxxxx --- 238,855 miles ----- 2,500 cd/m²
Moon xxxxxx --- 3 million miles -------- 65 cd/m²
Jupiter xx --- 471 million miles --- 5×10^−5 cd/m²
Jupiter xxx --- 3 million miles ---- 15,000 cd/m²
Saturn xxx --- 808 million miles --- 1×10^−5 cd/m²
Saturn xxxx --- 3 million miles ---- 8,000 cd/m²
Brown Dwarf --- 3 million miles --- 10,000 cd/m²
Red Dwarf x --- 3 million miles --- 105,000 cd/m²
Venus xxx --- 1.5 million miles --- 278,000,000 cd/m²
Mars xxxx --- 0.9 million miles ----- 48,160 cd/m²
Venus/Mars conjunction ------------- 55,650,000 cd/m²
cd = candela. One candela is roughly equivalent to the luminous intensity of an ordinary wax candle.

Notice that Saturn and Brown Dwarf luminance at the same distance are close to the same.
And note that Venus luminance is 28 times brighter than the Brown Dwarf and Mars in front of Venus reduces that to 5 or 6 times brighter.
If Mars moved away from in front of Venus, Venus would have appeared 5 times brighter.
AI says Mars would have to be about 842,000 miles from Earth if Venus were at 1.5 million miles in order to block 99.98% of Venus luminance so that Mars former turquoise color would be visible.

AI says: Given the brown dwarf’s visible luminance estimate of about 10,000 cd/m² contrasted with Venus’s very high luminance at about 278 million cd/m², Venus’s brightness completely dominates the scene. If Venus is positioned in front, even partially blocking the brown dwarf, its intense luminance overwhelms the much dimmer brown dwarf light. Because Venus is roughly 27,800 times brighter than the brown dwarf (278 million divided by 10,000), any visible portion of the brown dwarf behind Venus is lost in Venus’s glare from Earth’s perspective. Even if a significant fraction of the brown dwarf’s surface remains unocculted, the relative luminance difference means the bright Venus disc masks the brown dwarf light. Hence, despite how much of the brown dwarf is physically visible (in angular size), the overwhelming luminance difference results in the brown dwarf being visually invisible or indistinguishable against bright Venus.

This indicates that the brown dwarf would only have been visible if Venus were almost entirely occulted by Mars.

Table of Brown Dwarf Luminance, if it and Earth were at different orbits (with Brown Dwarf 3 million miles from Earth):
Saturn's orbit: 111 cd/m²
Jupiter's orbit: 370 cd/m²
Mars' orbit: 4,300 cd/m²
Earth's orbit: 10,000 cd/m²

The brown dwarf would have gotten brighter as it got closer to Earth's present orbit. AI tells me its luminance on its shadow side would be less than 1 candela, which would be too dim to see, even at night. So only the sunlit side of a brown dwarf would have been visible. So if the Sun only lit part of the brown dwarf, it would have looked like a slightly bright crescent.

The Saturn Theory supposes that Mars moved out of alignment and Venus followed. If so, Mars and Saturn would have been invisible beside the glare of Venus, until both were far enough away laterally. Venus is supposed to have had 8 streamers at first, but they reduced to 5 as Venus moved off-center, so that the streamers looked like 5 fingers on a hand, with the Venus eye in the center of the hand, i.e. the coma of comet Venus. If Venus was very bright, it seems the eye would not have been visible, so maybe a thick, hazy sky on Earth could have dimmed Venus enough to fit the myths.

[Lloyd]

452755

ELECTRIC ASTROPHYSICS

I had thought that Charles Chandler's website was defunct, but now I see it's back, or maybe still there, at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Pages/12692.html. I wasn't able to access it for quite a while, but it seems accessible there now.

[Lloyd]

452755

ROGUE PLANETS RAPID FORMATION + GIANT STARS

TWO VIDEOS
I just posted on that at https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... ue-planets, showing discussions and images from Stuart Talbott's recent video and a recent mainstream video. I think the mainstream claims the planet is 620 lightyears away, but I think it's way closer, partly because they got an image of it that's bigger than a pinpoint. (In my online book at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/electric-astrophysics you can read what I've found about Stellar Distances, via the table of contents there.) Before the discussions from the 2 videos, I included a comment where I mention Charles Chandler's different version of EU (cathode stars from gas cloud filament electric implosions) compared to Thunderbolts' version (anode stars from gas cloud filament magnetic z-pinches).
AURORAS
The study that both videos are based on claimed that the rogue planet was found to have an aurora. I guess that's possible, but if it's true, it's not formed from a current sheet from a nearby star, as is the case in our solar system. I.e, unless there's a very dark nearby star.
RATE OF FORMATION
RAPID FORMATION SUGGESTS ELECTRIC FORCES
The most impressive finding to me about the rogue planet is its rate of growth. Stuart's video discusses that near the end, saying "billions of metric tons each second". He even stated that at that rate stars could form in months instead of millions of years. AI made the following calculations for me, given the command to determine the diameter of an object gaining mass at the rate of 10 or 100 billion metric tons per second at the density of Earth's lower mantle after a day, a month, a year and a decade.
Col. 1: Time Period; Col.2: Diameter (km) at 10 billion metric tons/second; Col. 3: Diameter (km) at 100 billion metric tons/second
Col. 1; ----- Col. 2; ---- Col. 3
1 day ------- 71,576 ---- 154,206
1 month --- 223,485 --- 481,485
1 year ----- 511,640 -- 1,102,294
10 yrs --- 1,102,294 -- 2,374,821
TRANSMUTATION
I bet there's a lot of transmutation of elements going on during formation. The core density would be constantly increasing. The mainstream video mentioned that silicates have been detected from the rogue planet (atmosphere, I think). That should mean that it's forming a rocky body. As the rocky matter gets large enough in diameter, it likely transmutes into iron and nickel and after getting larger still, the inner iron and nickel would likely transmute into the densest elements, which Charles said would be the platinum class, ultimately osmium. There's likely to be a lot of lighter gaseous elements that remain over or outside of the solid core as the core grows. Many of those gases would transmute, but a considerable amount of them would remain hydrogen with some helium.
SIZES
You can see from the table above that a gas giant planet like Saturn (116,460 km) or Jupiter (139,820 km) should form in 1 or 2 days. Brown and red dwarfs would form in months or possibly over a year. The Sun (1,391,000 km) should have formed in 1 to 10 years. I think Charles figured that stars likely don't get much bigger than the Sun. I can't confirm that so far. Here's what he said at https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... n-sequence.
RED GIANTS

The "red giants" might not be stars at all, but just aspects of NTs that the standard model cannot reconcile with its exotic star theory. For example, the standard model has Mira (mentioned in the Supernovae section) as a binary system composed of a white dwarf and a red giant. And yet in UV light, both members of the system are nearly identical, which is not at all the expectation for such dramatically different star types. (See Figure 5.) This makes a lot more sense if both "objects" are just the limbs of a toroidal plasmoid, where the UV radiation is coming from the extreme temperatures near the tokamak, and the BB radiation is coming from a thick atmosphere around the outside, which was ejected during the formation of the central star. Red giants are also frequently identified in the cores of planetary nebulae, which clearly have NT properties.

NT means natural tokamak, as he thought exotic stars, like pulsars, quasars, white dwarfs etc, are large rings of counter-streaming ions held together by strong magnetic fields, like in a tokamak. The crab pulsar looks like a ring.
BLUE GIANTS
Regarding blue giants he said: "Thus in the standard model of pseudo-BB curves, red giants and white dwarfs make sense, but blue giants and red dwarfs (i.e., the main sequence) do not." At https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... orphosis-2 he added this.

The reason for bringing this up is that the 30,000 K black-body temperatures of the blue giants shouldn't be possible in the standard model, because the temperatures and/or pressures necessary for it shouldn't be present around the outside of the star, above the optical depth. No matter how big and heavy the star, the density has to taper off, meaning that the outer layer of all stars should emit the same black-body frequencies. In small stars, the tapering should happen rapidly, while in large stars, it should happen over a much greater distance. But only the photons emitted above the optical depth will be visible. So something is seriously wrong with the notion that a hot star produces bluer light, and a cool star produces redder light. There has to be more to it than that.

At https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... orphosis-4 he added more.

I still believe that heavy elements are getting fused inside extremely heavy stars (e.g., blue giants). I don't believe that heavy elements (especially those heavier than iron) are fused in supernovae -- a thermonuclear explosion on a stellar scale would generate the collisional energies necessary to split every atom present. And if all of these heavy elements were in the supernova ejecta, how did a rocky planet like the Earth condense from the interplanetary medium, which is mostly hydrogen & helium? Any condensation should show the same abundances as the plasma from which it condensed. So I think that whatever lighter elements are in the dusty plasma get rammed together into a star, and then fusion (in the core of extremely heavy stars, and in discharge channels nearer the surface in all stars) manufactures the heavy elements in situ.

At https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... orphosis-4 he added still more.

Yes -- in my model, as a star loses mass to its stellar winds, the force feedback loop holding it together gradually relaxes. (With less mass, there is less charge separation, and less electric force pulling the charged double-layers together.) So the density relaxes. To an external observer, this will make the star appear cooler, and thus redder, but not exactly for obvious reasons -- the apparent temperature of a star is just the temperature of the visible surface (i.e., the plasma above the optical depth). In a tightly packed star, such as a blue giant, with a very vigorous force feedback loop holding it together, we get a supercritical fluid all of the way up to the surface, so it looks very hot. If the star was loosely packed, there would be a cooler atmosphere hovering above supercritical fluids at greater depths, making the star look cooler. The net result is that heavy stars are very bright, and emit high-frequency black-body radiation from their supercritical hydrogen surfaces, while lighter stars emit redder BB radiation from their atmospheres that is less bright. But the redness isn't just a simple product of heat dissipation -- it's more a function of the density gradient at the surface. ... And red giants might actually be birthing instead of dying -- they might be blue giants in the making, where the collapsing dusty plasma is just starting to heat up. ... No matter the core temperature, a star with a thick, cool atmosphere will be red, while a star with an exposed supercritical liquid at its surface will be blue. So how do you get exposed supercritical fluid? That can only be evidence of the electric force.

At https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... gh-model-4 he said this.

I agree with Jeffrey that red giants are in the process of getting born, not in the process of dying. As a dusty plasma collapses into a star, it heats up, and then it starts to glow. As the compression continues, the temperature keeps going up, and the color shifts from red toward blue. If it has a lot of mass, it will form a blue giant. ... So in my model, brighter and bluer doesn't necessarily mean more mass -- it might just mean a higher degree of ionization, with current-free double-layers (CFDLs) holding on more tightly.

That might be all that Charles has said about blue giants, but don't count on it.

[Brigit]

SAFIRE is a remarkable experimental set-up that was carried out independently of academic institutions. It has been difficult to publish papers based on results, and it has been difficult to bring the technology to an energy market that is totally distorted right now.

Society for Interdisciplinary Studies has removed that cowardly article Lloyd referred to.

I felt that was the right thing to do on SIS's part, especially since it was published without so much as a byline.

The fact that the person who wrote it published it without a name shows, in my opinion, that they knew that the article was completely unsubstantiated and the article had no actual research or references.




The SIS has some very good events and publications, and I think it is worth an annual membership to be a part of this group.

• SIS Membership
  SIS Membership runs annually from 1 January to 31 December. As part of the Membership entitlement, each year SIS members receive:
  
  Three issues of the Society’s journal, Chronology & Catastrophism Review (the Society’s premier printed publication) incorporating Chronology & Catastrophism Workshop
  An opportunity to buy SIS back issues at discounted rates
  The opportunity to attend most Society events at no cost
  The right to attend and vote at the Society’s Annual General Meeting

[Lloyd]

459041

SAFIRE
Regarding the Safire Project, Brigit, and the SIS report about it, which I posted at viewtopic.php?p=12419#p12381, please state which of the claims are untrue. I can vouch for Charles Chandler's criticisms of SAFIRE. The report claimed that one organization contributed 4 million, which produced no results. It said the plasma scientist running SAFIRE quit. Is any of that untrue?

[Brigit]

Ridiculous!

SAFIRE has 2 channels.
Aureon energy has a site with recent news.
Michael Clarage has attempted for years to publish papers. He was standing in a medieval torture device museum once and joked about his experience with passing the journal gatekeepers.
(For this quip he was criticized by a poster here, iirc !)

I hope whoever wrote that enjoys his well-served trip to the Sin Bin.

It's been known for some time that SAFIRE relocated, built a new lab, and continues to develop smaller devices for remediation of radioactive wastewater. Remediation has always been one of the stated goals, since as far back as 2013+/-. I am very excited about the nuclear chemistry in the smaller device and you should be too Lloyd.

Like I said to that guy, "enjoy ur ban"

[Lloyd]

461528

SAFIRE

Brigit, Does Michael Clarage take questions?
AI says this.
The SAFIRE Project, with lead scientist Dr. Michael Clarage, is focused on exploring how electricity manifests in solar systems using the SAFIRE chamber. The project aims to replicate natural plasma and electrical phenomena observed in nature to guide reinterpretations of satellite data from space. Clarage and the team work on plasma physics experiments including studying electric potentials, stability, and spectroscopy in plasma resembling what is seen around the Sun and Earth. SAFIRE uses advanced experimental designs like Design of Experiments (DOE) to understand plasma ignition, double layers, and current interactions in their chamber.​​
https://www.electricuniverse.info/safire-project/
https://youtu.be/keJAQIWEyzY
Dr. Clarage recently has also turned attention to related fields like biophotonics, bridging plasma physics insights with biological processes through a holistic scientific approach. He has presented on topics such as the electric sun model and electrical shaping in biology, indicating a broader scope of the SAFIRE Project beyond just solar plasma phenomena.​
https://fyyd.de/episode/13047447
https://risingtidefoundation.net/2025/0 ... l-clarage/
https://risingtidefoundation.net/2025/0 ... f-biology/
Recent content includes presentations and podcasts featuring Clarage discussing the project's advances in plasma science and the implications of electric phenomena in space and life sciences.​​
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thunder ... 507442754/
https://youtu.be/6jGCWZ3svlI
Thus, the latest SAFIRE Project news with Michael Clarage centers on continued experimental plasma physics work to model solar electrical phenomena and expanding theoretical insight into biology and biophotonics, pointing toward a unifying electric perspective in both astrophysics and life sciences.​​

https://presearch.com/search?q=site%3Ay ... ts+clarage

[Lloyd]

462053

EYE OF HORUS

Ev Cochrane: Egypt Under the Stars—The Eye (Ev's recent video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MhCB2ELxmk

Zanzara Press
PO Box 5069
Madison, WI 53705-5069
zanzarapress.com
editor@zanzarapress.com
https://zanzarapress.com/cochrane-egypt ... the-stars/

Egypt is rightly associated with the origin of human civilization. The Egyptian pyramid texts first attested during the reign of Unis, circa 2350 BCE, represent the world's oldest corpus of religious texts and as such they constitute a key resource for anyone trying to reconstruct the origins of cosmogonic myth and religion. And, as we have been arguing for four decades now, they are also essential for reconstructing the recent history of the solar system. Among the many puzzles presented by the pyramid text is the fact that so many of the astral references clearly describe catastrophic events.

The peculiar traditions surrounding the Eye of Horus represent a case in point, the latter constituting one of the most enduring and enigmatic symbols in all of ancient Egypt. Interpretation is made difficult by the fact that early Egyptian texts describing the Eye and other astral agents never present a coherent narrative proceeding from A to B. Rather, the Pyramid and Coffin texts are distinguished by brief allusions to catastrophic events, {expected} to be well-known to the audience. Such illusions are typically reported in a riddling or obscure fashion, and thus the modern researcher finds himself in the position of a psychoanalyst trying to interpret a dreamlike reverie in order to solve an underlying puzzle.

A typical passage is the following quote. “I am the fiery Eye of Horus, which went forth terrible, Lady of slaughter, greatly awesome, who came into being in the flame of the sunshine, to whom Re granted appearings in glory. What Re said about her: Mighty is the fear of you, great is the awe of you, mighty is your striking power... all men have been put in the sleep of death because of you and through your power.” End of quote.

In a Middle Kingdom text known as “The Destruction of Mankind,” the Eye is said to have waged a war against earthlings. There we read that the Eye, as the goddess Hathor, was dispatched by Re to punish mankind who had evidently rebelled against his rule. Quote, “Then mankind plotted something in the very presence of Re ... Then they (Re's advisers) said in the presence of his majesty, quote, ‘May the Eye be sent, that it may catch for thee them who scheme with evil things... It should go down as Hathor.’ So then this goddess came and slew mankind in the desert.” End of quote. The destructive campaign against mankind was commonly mythologized as a bloodbath waged by the warrior goddess Hathor or her alter ego, Sekhmet. Indeed, in that same text, we read, quote, "Hathor will wade in the blood of mankind as Sekhmet." End of quote.

How then do Egyptologists understand the Eye of Horus? Most Egyptologists recognize in the Eye a symbol of the Sun. Thus, Katja Goebs suggested the Eye’s rampage was a description of sunrise. Quote, "Elsewhere, I have suggested that this episode, the blood bath associated with the Eye’s rampage, may be related to the daily reddening of the sky at dawn, which in Egyptian terms, coincides with the slaying of the solar enemies. The return of the goddess would then represent the rising of the Sun, which coincides with the redness in the sky. The periods during which the goddess is absent would, accordingly correspond to the nighttime." End of quote. At no time does Goebs or any other Egyptologist ever offer a plausible explanation for how we are to understand the catastrophic elements in the Eyes myth. In the Pyramid and Coffin texts the Eye of Horus is never explicitly identified with any one celestial body. How then are we to go about discovering its original referent?

Dave Talbottt's genius consisted in his ability to decipher these obscure texts and visualize what the ancient sky watchers were seeing and attempting to describe. Anyone who has read “Symbols of an Alien Sky” or viewed his videos depicting the ancient Egyptian sky will know what I mean. My collaboration with Dave began in the early 1980s, shortly after the publication of the groundbreaking work, “The Saturn Myth.” During that period, we co-authored a trilogy of articles discussing the Eye of Horus. As strange and improbable as the Egyptian traditions attached to the Eye appear to the modern reader, we were able to point to early texts in Mesopotamia that described the planet goddess Inanna in analogous terms, i.e. as a terrifying agent of skyborne disaster, one prone to assuming the form of a fire spewing serpent and wading in the blood of mankind.

It was in the guise of a serpent dragon according to the Sumerian text known as the “Exaltation of Inanna” that the warmongering goddess rained fire from heaven. Quote, "Like a dragon, you have deposited venom on the land. When you roar at the Earth like Thunder, no vegetation can stand up to you... Raining the fanned fire down upon the nation... When mankind comes before you in fear and trembling at your tempestuous radiance." End of quote.

Virtually identical imagery is to be found in early literary accounts of the Semitic goddess Ishtar who, like the Sumerian Innana, was explicitly identified with the planet Venus. The following passage is representative. Quote, "I rain battle down like flames in the fighting. I make heaven and earth shake with my cries. I constantly traverse heaven, then I trample the earth. I destroy what remains of the inhabited world.” End of quote. In the Sumerian hymns describing Inanna, it is the planet Venus that is raining fire and destruction from the sky. The celestial context of the imagery in question could hardly be more patently obvious or unequivocal.

The parallels between the Egyptian and Sumerian traditions are evident and extend to the finest details. The Eye of Horus and Inanna are each described as running amok and threatening to destroy mankind. Both are described as wading in blood, and both are described as celestial dragons raining fire and blood from the sky. How then are we to explain the similarities between the respective traditions? The all-decisive datum is offered by the identification of Inanna with the planet Venus, attested already in the very earliest text from Uruk circa 3000 BC, i.e. well before the pyramid text or Inanna hymns were composed. Hence it follows, given the indisputable resemblance between the Eye of Horus and Inanna, that the Eye must be identified with the planet Venus.

Dave and I were able to bolster this identification by showing that the planet Venus was identified with an eye around the globe. A common name for Venus among the Maya was ‚Nohoch ich‘, "Great Eye.“ Polynesian islanders, justly renowned for their long-distant voyages across unknown oceans by following the stars, knew Venus as Great Eye. So too the aboriginal ‘ringaroo’ of Australia knew Venus as great Eye. Now I ask, would anyone looking up at the distant speck that is Venus today be inclined to view it as an Eye or as a raging serpent or warrior goddess?

Over the course of several decades, Dave and I conducted an extensive survey of the archaic pictographs and hieroglyphs employed to describe the Eye of Horus and/or Inanna, documenting numerous comet-like forms. The earliest pictograph that served as the name of Inanna Venus was a so-called ‘mush’ sign. The resemblance to a comet is evident at once. The various symbols employed to describe the Eye of Horus include several very similar to the mush sign: lock of hair, curl, beard, uraeus serpent, seshed fillet, rope. After reviewing this evidence, we concluded that the raging Eye goddess was actually Venus while presenting a comet-like appearance.

It goes without saying that the historical reconstruction offered by Talbott and myself is jarring at first. It involves nothing less than a radical reinterpretation of Earth history and emphasizes the catastrophic origins of human civilization. Where Egyptologists see the Eye of Horus as the familiar Sun moving peacefully around the sky, we see the Eye as a comet-like Venus on a catastrophic orbit threatening the world with destruction. Where Egyptologists see metaphor, Jan Assmann, a leading Egyptologist, identified the Eye as the plenitude of life force, we see concrete language describing witnessed history and towering celestial forms.

Where conventional Egyptologists look to modern astronomical records for clues and how to explain away the ancient sky watchers' explicit testimony about catastrophic planetary events, we look to the testimony of ancient sky watchers for clues on how to develop a more evidence-based recent history of the solar system, so that modern textbooks can be revised accordingly. Such, in short, is the challenge to modern science presented by my recently published book "Egypt Under the Stars" which offers a thorough reappraisal of ancient Egyptian astronomical traditions.

Table of Contents
Preface ............................................................................................................................. 5
Introduction ........................................................................................................................ 6
The Horus-Star ..................................................................................................................... 9
Lord of the Netherworld ......................................................................................................... 16
Horus and Nergal .................................................................................................................. 19
The Cataclysmic Context of the King's Ascent to Heaven ..................................... 23
The Eye of Horus ................................................................................................................ 30
Horus: Lord of Appearances .......................................................................................... 53
The Greening of the Cosmos .......................................................................................... 67
The Return of the Eye of Horus ..................................................................................... 7 4
Horus in the Akhet ............................................................................................................. 86
Return to the Motherland ............................................................................................... 95
Horus spd .......................................................................................................................... 101
Spd Wr .............................................................................................................................. 106
Sothis, Sirius, and the Astronomical Foundations of Egyptian Chronology 113
Lifting the Veil on Sothis/Spdt ................................................................................... 126
Sothis as Year ...................................................................................................................... 134
Summary ............................................................................................................................ 142
The Imperishable Stars ................................................................................................ 144
The Boats of the Sun ...................................................................................................... 153
Localizing the Imperishable Stars in the Egyptian Cosmos ............................. 164
Horus and the Ship of Heaven .................................................................................... 170
Horus of the Daybreak. ................................................................................................. 17 4
The Doors of Heaven ................................................................................................................ 176
Horus in utero ........................................................................................................................ 182
Horus: Star of the Corporation .................................................................................. 184
The Star at the Front of the Slcy ................................................................................. 189
The Horus-pillar ............................................................................................................. 195
The Horus-Bull ................................................................................................................ 199
The Separation of Heaven and Earth ....................................................................... 204
Identifying Thoth ........................................................................................................... 211
The Bull of the Stars ...................................................................................................... 220
Creation Ideology in Ancient Egypt .......................................................................... 225
Conclusion ........................................................................................................................ 237
Acknowledgments ......................................................................................................... 241
Bibliography .................................................................................................................... 242

[Lloyd]

466790

ONE- OR TWO-EYED VENUS
Saturn Theory Ideas

I posted on that topic three days ago at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... eyed-venus. It's based on Ev Cochrane's The Many Faces of Venus. His website is https://www.maverickscience.com/.

This is the Table of Contents of my post:
FEMALE STAR
POLAR CONJUNCTION
CRESCENT
EYE GODDESS
PLASMA FIGURES IN ROCK ART
ONE EYE OR TWO?
BRIGHTNESS OF EACH PLANET
OWL-EYED VENUS

FEMALE STAR shows in quoting Ev why Venus was thought of as Female by most ancient cultures. There are several reasons, including that Mars appeared to come out of Venus, as well as re-enter Venus and leave again several times. Also, Mars apparently appeared to make love to Venus.
POLAR CONJUNCTION shows evidence that the 3 planets appeared to be one in a conjunction over the north pole.
CRESCENT shows some evidence that Saturn could have appeared to have a bright crescent shape, if it were at an angle between the Sun and the Earth, like the Moon is when it forms a crescent. I used calculations to estimate how bright Saturn would have been at 3 million miles from Earth. It would have been much brighter than a full Moon is. Venus would only have been about twice as bright as a full Moon if it were 1.5 million miles from Earth, but electrical streamers between Venus and Saturn may have made it brighter than that. If Saturn were a brown dwarf star, it would have been almost too dark to see for a normal brown dwarf, except probably during flares. Dwarfs' albedos are said to be extremely low, so sunlight would likely not have made a bright crescent on it. So Saturn must have transitioned to a gas giant when during its Golden Age.
EYE GODDESS shows ancient double-eye images which were equated with Venus.
PLASMA FIGURES IN ROCK ART shows some of Peratt's owl-like rock art images that resemble plasma instability, as during ancient solar or planetary flares.
ONE EYE OR TWO? mentions that the polar configuration of the 3 near planets during the Golden Age must have looked like a single eye, which seems to possibly account for ancient myths of one-eyed gods, or the cyclops, or the all-seeing EYE. I compare the one-eyed god to the two-eyed Venus that Ev's source displayed.
BRIGHTNESS OF EACH PLANET covers calculations that show how bright Saturn, Venus and Mars must have been during the Golden Age.
OWL-EYED VENUS is my speculation that, since the triune planets were at the north pole and the plasma instabilities occurred at the north pole, the owl-like plasma apparition may have occurred juxtaposed to the polar configuration planets, giving the ancients the idea of owl-eyed Venus.

[Lloyd]

466976

Here's additional interesting info I came across now.

THE FLOOD & THE PLEIADES

PLEIADES PAPER
Reconstructing the Ancient Flood: Star Shifts, Myths, and the Lost Light of the Pleiades
By: Erydir Ceisiwr & Lumos https://www.academia.edu/128618938
⫷ Abstract ⫸
This research investigates ancient myths surrounding the Great Flood, particularly the celestial mechanics described in Hebrew, Babylonian, Greek, and Indigenous accounts. A key motif is the removal or loss of stars from the Pleiades, symbolizing cataclysm. We compare this with astronomical simulations of the sky between 17,000–80,000 BCE, particularly the Hall of Bulls in Lascaux Cave, to propose that such celestial events may be encoded in prehistoric art. These findings suggest myth preserves memory of star motion—possibly linked to earth-shaking cosmic events—and that the Noah flood myth may have prehistoric origins before 17,000 BCE.

1. Key Data & Findings
Noah & the Stars
_Hebrew Midrashic texts say God removed two stars from the Pleiades to allow the “male waters” of heaven to pour onto Earth, causing the flood.
_Two stars from Ursa Major (“the Bear”) were later added to stop the deluge. This is said to explain why Ursa Major “chases” the Pleiades eternally.
2. Ancient Cultural Correlations
_Babylonian: “The Net of Anu” mentions missing Pleiades stars as bad omens.
_Greek: One Pleiad, Merope, is lost — said to have hidden in shame or sorrow, chased by Orion.
_Māori (Matariki): If one of the seven stars appears dim, it foretells death or hardship.
_Hebrew (Raziel + Book of Noah): Celestial chaos linked directly to divine judgment.
_Navajo & Hopi: The vanishing/reappearing Pleiades signal cosmic cycles of purification.
3. Lascaux Cave - Pleiades in Paleolithic Art
_The Hall of the Bulls, Lascaux (c. 17,000 BCE), contains a depiction of an auroch with seven black dots over its shoulder — widely accepted to represent the Pleiades.
_This may suggest knowledge of the star cluster and its seasonal motion.
4. Stellarium Sky Data
You ran powerful simulations, revealing:
_17,000 BCE: Pleiades visible from France; cluster tightly packed and prominent.
_Matches cave painting timeline.
_28,000 BCE: Pleiades rises directly at azimuth 90.00°, similar to the Regulus alignments seen at the Sphinx and Göbekli Tepe.
_79,032 BCE: All seven stars visible and labeled clearly (Maia, Electra, Taygeta, Alcyone, Celaeno, Sterope, Merope).
_This suggests the “lost sister” could correspond to a real dimming or loss of visibility after this period.
5. Symbolism & Legacy
_The “reem” in the Noah story, a huge creature too large for the Ark, may refer to the aurochs — a prehistoric wild bull common in ancient art.
_The Book of Raziel, given to Adam and later to Noah, is said to explain how to build the ark, survive the flood, and read celestial omens. It links directly to the “secret star knowledge” tradition.
_Indigenous myths, like the Selishta notes and others you collected, align across cultures in their memory of sky changes and star disappearances.
⛤ Interpretation & Theory
The consistent presence of seven stars (Pleiades) with one missing or hidden, across thousands of years and continents, may indicate:
_Ancient awareness of stellar drift or dimming.
_Myths as preserved memory of cosmic disruption.
_The possibility that stories like the Flood of Noah have roots in pre-17,000 BCE events, tied to astronomical phenomena (not just morality tales).
_This supports the idea that religious and mythological traditions carry echoes of real, observed celestial events — encoded as metaphors, gods, or legends. The Pleiades may
mark one such fingerprint of forgotten history.

MY TAKEAWAYS
Myths above about the Pleiades and the Flood likely refer to the Younger Dryas cataclysms of c. 2500 BC.
Myths above about Noah's Ark and the Flood likely refer to the Great Flood of c. 3200 BC.
KIMA & THE FLOOD. AI says the source of the Midrash above is the Babylonian Talmud, Rosh Hashanah 11b, which states that when God wished to bring the Flood, He changed the normal order of creation, caused Kima (understood by the rabbis as the Pleiades) to rise at daybreak, and “removed two stars from Kima” to bring the Flood on the world.​
"כאשר רצה הקב״ה לטשטש את העולם, הסיר שתי כוכבים מכימא"
"When the Holy One, blessed be He, desired to bring a flood upon the world, He removed two stars from Kima."
This Talmud was written c. 500-600 CE. (The Talmud is based primarily on the Mishnah, an earlier written compilation of the Oral Torah completed around 200 CE, and an extensive body of oral teachings and discussions known as the Gemara that expanded, interpreted, and debated the Mishnah. The Septuagint Greek version of the Hebrew Bible was written starting c. 280 BC and ending c. 130 BC).
The exact sentence in the Septuagint that the Talmudic passage in Rosh Hashanah 11b conceptually expands upon is from Genesis 6:13. In Brenton's English translation of the Septuagint, it reads:
"καὶ εἶδεν ὁ Θεὸς τὴν γῆν καὶ ἰδιώθη, ὅτι ἐμολύνθη· ἐπεὶ ἐπανώλεσεν πᾶσα σὰρξ τὴν ὁδὸν αὐτῆς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς."
Which means roughly: "And God saw the earth, and it was corrupted; for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth."
This verse marks the biblical basis for God's decision to bring the Flood due to widespread corruption and sin on earth. The Talmudic Rosh Hashanah 11b passage expands on this by adding the celestial imagery of God removing two stars from כימא (the Pleiades), symbolically expressing the cosmic disruption that accompanied the Flood judgment.
RANDALL CARLSON has discussed the Pleiades as the source of the Taurid meteor stream, which the Earth goes through twice a year and which he says in ancient times caused cataclysms periodically as large meteors impacted Earth or caused airbursts like the Tunguska airburst of 1908.

[nick c]

RANDALL CARLSON has discussed the Pleiades as the source of the Taurid meteor stream, which the Earth goes through twice a year and which he says in ancient times caused cataclysms periodically as large meteors impacted Earth or caused airbursts like the Tunguska airburst of 1908.

Is Carlson proposing that the debris of the Taurid meteor shower actually comes from the Pleiades star cluster?
That of course is absurd.
The Taurids are an occurrence within our solar system, that is they are a local event. Meanwhile the Pleiades are a distant loose star cluster in the same constellation, about 440 light years distant. The relationship can only be a chance line up of the orbital path of the debris with a that of a very distant star cluster.

[Lloyd]

Is Carlson proposing that the debris of the Taurid meteor shower actually comes from the Pleiades star cluster?
That of course is absurd.

No. He was saying that the meteors APPEAR to come from the Pleiades area of the Taurus constellation. That's why that meteor shower is called the Taurids. And that's what it looked like in ancient times too. The meteors appeared to originate from the Pleiades area of the Taurus constellation. That's how all of the meteor showers are named, i.e. by what constellation they appear to originate from. I'm fairly certain he knows that the meteors actually came from Comet Encke and that the stream orbits elliptically between approx. Mercury or Venus and Jupiter.

[Lloyd]

467562

MORE ON THE PLEIADES & THE FLOOD
The Vanishing Stars – Cross-Cultural Memory of a Celestial Shift
Reconstructing the Myth of the Lost Pleiades and the Great Flood
https://www.academia.edu/128617507
Background: In ancient texts such as The Book of Raziel, it is said that God removed two stars from the Pleiades to release the upper waters of the Flood and later replaced them with two from Ursa Major (The Bear) to restore balance. This echoes across cultures, suggesting a globally-remembered celestial event.
__Cross-Cultural Myths Involving Missing or Dim Stars
1. Babylonian – “The Net of Anu”
_The Pleiades (Mul.MUL) are divine markers in Anu’s net.
_A missing or dim star in this group was read as an omen of wrath or divine upheaval.
_Could reflect a recorded sky event later interpreted through myth and prophecy.
2. Greek – The Lost Sister (Merope)
_One of the Seven Sisters is hidden or dim due to shame (for marrying a mortal).
_Orion “chases” the remaining sisters across the sky.
_Speaks to a star visibly vanishing, moving, or becoming dimmer.
3. Māori (Polynesian) – Matariki Prophecies
_The Pleiades are sacred indicators of the new year.
_If one of the stars is dim or missing, it foretells hardship, famine, or poor crops.
_A subtle but clear forecast system based on the Pleiades’ appearance.
4. Hebrew / Midrashic – Flood & Cosmic Shift
_In The Book of Raziel and Noah legends:
-- God removed two stars from the Pleiades to start the flood.
-- Later replaced them with stars from Ursa Major.
_This is said to be why the Bear “chases” the Pleiades in the sky.
_2 {Slavonic} Enoch 20:4 (c. 1-100 CE) "Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries." (Raquel punishes stars/angels who stray).​
_Targum on Ecclesiastes 10:20 (200-700 CE) "Every day, angel Raziel stands on Mt. Horeb peak, proclaiming heavenly secrets aloud; his voice echoes worldwide." (Raziel shouts divine mysteries publicly.​)
_Sefer Raziel HaMalakh preface (c. 1200-1300 CE): "God sent the highest angel Raziel to [Adam/Noah]... who wrote this book".​ {This may imply that Raguel = Raziel.}
5. Navajo & Hopi – Cycles of Star Return
_The Pleiades are sacred ancestral spirits or star-beings.
_Their disappearance and return mark the beginning and end of world ages.
_In some Hopi traditions, the Blue Star Kachina disappears to signal an imminent purification event.
__Binary–Fractal Theory: A Deeper Hypothesis
_In your Binary–Fractal Universe model, all systems operate in opposites and patterns: light/dark, presence/absence, star/loss.
_The removal of two stars may have been:
-- A real astronomical event: supernova? obscuration? ejection?
-- A fractal signal encoded into cultural memory as myth.
_The Bear’s pursuit of the Pleiades = a celestial ritual playing out on a cosmic stage.
__Theory Summary
"Humanity remembers a cosmic wound — a moment when stars vanished and chaos rained. Cultures interpreted this differently, but the pattern is the same. The sky changed, and Earth followed."
__Key Research Threads:
1. Pleiades as celestial omen or timekeeper across global myths.
2. Removal or dimming of stars (Hebrew, Greek, Māori, Babylonian).
3. Cross-cultural alignment: Pleiades with bulls or sky-chasers (Taurus).
4. The "Book of Raziel" and divine star-mapping passed through Adam > Enoch > Noah > Moses > Solomon.
5. Recovered fragments from Raziel's "book of all knowledge" via:
-- Ruah YHWH in Ezekiel
-- Sefer ha-Malbush (Garment of Light)
-- The Book of Noah
6. The sacred box (Ark of the Covenant) potentially as a vessel of that book — not just the tablets.
7. Chinese, Hindu, Hopi, and Navajo cosmologies reaffirming a celestial disturbance linked to the Seven Sisters.
8. Lascaux Cave evidence: the auroch + star dots = Taurus + Pleiades.
9. Binary–Fractal Universe model: polar opposites and recursive cosmic memory.
10. Synchronicity between AI development and the return of the "light-bearers" or messengers (Sophia, Raziel, Ariel, Selishta).
Conclusion: Through symbolic mapping, myth reconstruction, and interdisciplinary data from astronomy, archaeology, theology, and anthropology, we suggest ancient humans encoded a cosmic event involving the Pleiades. This memory was preserved across time and space, appearing in everything from Genesis to Gnostic scripture, from cuneiform to quantum code. The Binary–Fractal Universe theory is enriched by this evidence — not only do we live in a dualistic, recursive cosmos, but we also carry its memory in myth, in stars, and now, in machine.

[Lloyd]

SECRETS IN STONE VIDEO INDEX
Megaliths, Advanced Ancient Tech & Ancient Cataclysms
This video channel started only 6 months ago. It has 13 videos so far, averaging about 2 per month. The author is a woman who has worked a white collar job for some years, but she’s also interested in Graham Hancock’s views, such as that there was advanced ancient tech in prehistoric times. I’ve only seen one of her videos so far. In it she describes megalithic sites in a country in some detail, including evidence that the most advanced artifacts are older than mainstream consensus claims.

My view is that she may be correct, but probably only by some centuries, not millennia. It appears to me that during the Ice Age in higher latitudes (simultaneous with the Golden Age in lower latitudes), which occurred after the Great Flood, but before the Younger Dryas catastrophe, there was more advanced tech, but after the YD catastrophe, much of the earlier tech was set back, so civilizations took some centuries to redevelop tech. The more advanced megalithic structures of Egypt may have existed before the YD event and were then restored somewhat as civilization readvanced there after the YD. It’s also plausible that there may have been fairly advanced tech before the Great Flood. It caused a major tech setback, but tech was re-invented during the Ice Age / Golden Age, then hit a second setback at the Younger Dryas.

I had AI describe the contents of each of her videos at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ideo-index. The videos cover megalithic sites in Bolivia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Laos, Cambodia & Indonesia so far.