Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

[Lloyd]

370946

I replied to Nick and Brigit yesterday regarding ancient New Species, Earth's Water Source & Mercury & Memory: viewtopic.php?t=13&start=975#p11855.

VENUS TABLETS ETC

Astronomy and Ancient Chronology, by Peter J. Huber, Klosters (2000) - https://www.academia.edu/68373292
--
1 The available astronomical evidence.
The currently available astronomical evidence relevant for the absolute chronology of the late third and early second millennium BC has five independent parts:
(a) OB Venus data and (b) OB month-lengths -- linked to Ammisaduqa year 1
about 400 years (from ab to cd)
(c) Ur III month-lengths and (d) Ur III eclipses -- linked to Amar-Sin year 1
about 287 years (from cd to e)
(e) Akkad eclipses linked to Sargon year 1
...
7 Summary conclusions.
... A set of long chronologies gives a coherent, near-perfect fit for all five components (a) to (e) of the astrononomical evidence:
--
Sargon year 1 = -2380 or -2326
Amar-Sin year 1 = -2093
Ammisaduqa year 1 = -1701
Fall of Babylon = -1650
--
All ominous lunar eclipses of EAE 20 and 21 concerning changes of reign in Akkad or Ur find a reasonably convincing seat in this chronological framework (except EAE 20-II, which does not match any eclipse whatsoever between -2200 and -1850). Of the 9 large lunar eclipses preceding a change of reign in the dynasty of Akkad, all can be accounted for by 5 different omens, see Section 5. The overall, coherent fit is so good that it must be taken seriously; it cannot be disregarded simply because it disagrees with the (by necessity chronologically softer) archaeological evidence.

I don't know if anyone has done a better job dating the above events, but this paper seems plausible, so I'll try to incorporate the dates into my timeline. I'm about to post on my Substack regarding ancient cultures' practices for measuring days (https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substack.com/archive). Most started the day at sunset, but the Egyptians started it at sunrise. The mainstream figured that their calendar was based on the heliacal rising of Sirius, but it's more likely that Sirius is a mistranslation of Venus. So they likely based their calendar on the heliacal rising of Venus as the morning star after the Saturn configuration broke up. During the Golden Age before the breakup, they likely started their day at sunset, like others did, since the Saturn configuration was likely very spectacular at night. It wasn't Saturn that was so spectacular. Only a crescent of Saturn was somewhat bright, looking like a ship going around Venus and Mars each day. It must have been Venus that was especially bright (white). And Mars was initially turquoise in front of Venus, possibly due to having a water ocean, which later was blown off it and Mars turned red. The Egyptians then transferred the name of Ra from red Mars to the initially red Sun (red due to dust in the inner solar system).

[nick c]

There have been numerous articles written on the Venus Tablets in Kronos and Aeon.
The only way Huber could get "near perfect fits" is by changing many of the actual observations. That is altering what was written, and attributing the original observations to "scribal errors".

The fact remains that the tablets show a 17 year period of Venus observations that do not in any way conform to the present motions. They cannot be retro calculated simply because the tablets depict Venus and possibly the Earth too, on different orbits than today. Read the section in Worlds In Collision, pp 198-200, "Venus Moves Irregularly".... the logic is sound and it stands today. Huber uses legerdemain to force fit the observations into his preconceived view. It is ironic that an ancient document which depicts a different order of the solar system can be juggled to allegedly support the opposite uniformitarian position.

There was an analysis over a period of several years comprising many articles by Rose and Vaughn. Their conclusion was that the tablets record cut and dried observations of Venus and that they do not fit and cannot fit today's movements without changing the actual observations (which is what Huber did).

Rose and Vaughn did not come to any conclusions about what was relative positions between Earth and Venus, because they thought that the observations could only be explained with not only Venus being on a different orbit, but also the Earth. Also, they concluded that the tablets show that Venus was on a different orbit than today, but seems to have still been an inner planet.

That may be the reason that tablets were so important to the Babylonians as they made many copies, they were observing the arrival of Venus moving to its new position in the solar system (my opinion).

Also, Amizaduqua probably had nothing to do with the tablets. The name of that Babylonian king appears in only one spot and appears to be a later addition.
Eclipses retro calculations need to be corrected and since we do not know about the time of ancient eclipses since they did not have acceptable time keeping mechanisms the further back we go from Roman times the errors become quite large with no objective means for correction. There is something called the Delta T factor, which is perturbations in the Earth's motions which accumulate the further we go from the earliest correctable time. That makes calculations beyond around 500 BC becoming more and more unreliable the further back you go. Certainly going back to the 2nd M has little or no value.
https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEcat5/uncertainty.html

[Lloyd]

371006

Nick, if you can point out Huber's main errors at https://www.academia.edu/68373292, I'd be able to judge better if your claims seem probable.

SPECTACULAR ANCIENT NIGHTS

The fact that many ancient cultures started their days at sunset is evidence in support of the Saturn Theory. I wrote about that at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ent-nights. The contents include these section titles.
ANCIENT NIGHTLY SPECTACLE
ANCIENT DAYTIME RECKONING
SUPPORT FOR SATURN THEORY
WHY WAS EGYPT DIFFERENT?

[Lloyd]

VENUS TABLET

Here are the full 21 lines of the Venus Tablet of Ammisaduqa.
ES: When Venus disappears in the morning sky (becomes invisible).
WR: When Venus reappears in the evening sky (becomes visible after sunset).
WS: When Venus disappears in the evening sky (becomes invisible after sunset).
ER: When Venus reappears in the morning sky (becomes visible before sunrise).
Line --- ES --- WR ----- WS ----- ER --- Days of Invisibility
1 --- 12/25 --- 3/11 --- 3/15 --- 6/15 --- 3
2 --- 6/16 --- 9/8 --- 9/12 --- 12/6 --- 23
3 --- 12/9 --- 2/25 --- 3/1 --- 5/27 --- 20
4 --- 6/17 --- 8/29 --- 9/3 --- 11/27 --- 17
5 --- 11/21 --- 2/7 --- 2/11 --- 5/7 --- 18
6 --- 6/15 --- 8/25 --- 8/29 --- 11/29 --- 3
7 --- 12/7 --- 2/23 --- 2/27 --- 5/23 --- 17
8 --- 6/13 --- 8/21 --- 8/25 --- 11/21 --- 7
9 --- 11/19 --- 2/5 --- 2/9 --- 5/5 --- 274
10 --- 6/11 --- 8/17 --- 8/21 --- 11/17 --- 7
11 --- 11/13 --- 1/29 --- 2/3 --- 4/29 --- 12
12 --- 5/25 --- 8/9 --- 8/13 --- 11/9 --- 15
13 --- 11/7 --- 1/23 --- 1/27 --- 4/23 --- 7
14 --- 5/19 --- 7/11 --- 7/15 --- 10/15 --- 47
15 --- 10/16 --- 1/8 --- 1/12 --- 4/6 --- 23
16 --- 5/9 --- 7/25 --- 7/29 --- 10/29 --- 15
17 --- 10/7 --- 1/23 --- 1/27 --- 4/23 --- 4
18 --- 4/25 --- 7/9 --- 7/13 --- 10/9 --- 15
19 --- 10/1 --- 1/17 --- 1/21 --- 4/17 --- 16
20 --- 4/13 --- 6/29 --- 7/3 --- 10/29 --- 15
21 --- 9/25 --- 12/9 --- 12/13 --- 3/9 --- 7
Note: There are some variations and uncertainties in the original cuneiform text due to damage and scribal errors{?}, so the above is a standard scholarly reconstruction. As many as 20 copies of the Venus Tablet of Ammisaduqa are currently on record, though many are fragmentary and fall into six groups, distinguished by provenance, age, and textual features. The best-known group is "B" from Kish; the other groups are defined in technical literature by their findspots and textual relationships, but are not named in most general summaries.

There are disagreements among the 20 copies — mostly minor differences in dates, intervals, and sometimes missing or extra lines. These are typical of ancient textual transmission and are carefully documented in modern scholarly editions.
Examples of Specific Disagreements
- Source B (Kish copy), considered among the oldest and most reliable, sometimes differs by a day or two in the dates for Venus’s first or last visibility compared to other groups.
- In some copies, the invisibility interval for a given year might be listed as, for example, “7 days,” while in another copy it is “8 days.”
- The Babylon copy and the Assyrian library copies (from Nineveh) sometimes have different month numbers for the same event.
- Some copies omit certain years or events entirely, while others include them.
- There are also cases where the order of events is reversed or where scribes made corrections in the margins.
Scholars such as Erica Reiner and David Pingree, in their critical edition (The Venus Tablet of Ammisaduqa, 1975), document these disagreements in detail. They use collation tables to show variant readings for each line among the main manuscript groups (A, B, C, D, E, F).

The Babylonians kept copying the original Venus Tablet instead of making new observations for several interconnected reasons:
- Astrological and Omen Tradition: The Venus Tablet was not just an astronomical record; it was part of the Enuma Anu Enlil, a massive collection of celestial omens. These omens were believed to have been divinely revealed and historically significant, so preserving the original observations was essential for maintaining the authority and continuity of the omen tradition.
- Authority of the Past: Ancient Mesopotamian culture placed great value on tradition and the authority of earlier texts. The original observations from King Ammisaduqa’s reign were seen as canonical and authoritative, so scribes were expected to preserve and transmit them faithfully, rather than replace them with new data.
- Purpose of the Tablet: The Venus Tablet’s primary use was for astrological prediction, not for ongoing scientific observation. Scribes and astrologers used the original data as a reference for interpreting omens, not as a dynamic, updated astronomical record.
- Copying as Preservation: Over centuries, tablets deteriorated or were lost, so copies were made to preserve the information for future generations. The act of copying was a way to ensure the survival of the original tradition, not to update it with new observations.

The Enuma Anu Enlil is a massive compendium of celestial and atmospheric omens, estimated to contain between 6,500 and 7,000 omens organized on about 68–70 tablets. The series is not fully reconstructed—many tablets are fragmentary, untranslated, or lost—so a complete, itemized list of all omens is not available in any single modern source.
- The omens are grouped by the type of phenomenon they interpret:
- Tablets 1–13: First appearances of the moon, its relation to planets and stars, lunar haloes, crowns, and other lunar phenomena.
- Tablet 14: Mathematical schemes for predicting lunar visibility.
- Tablets 15–22: Lunar eclipses, with details on date, time, and affected regions or cities.
- Tablets 23–29: Solar phenomena—appearances, colors, markings, and the sun’s relation to clouds and storms.
- Tablets 30–39: Solar eclipses and their interpretations.
- Tablets 40–49: Weather phenomena and earthquakes, with special attention to thunder.
- Tablets 50–70: Stars and planets, including planetary omens (Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Mercury, Saturn) and constellations; these often use coded language, substituting fixed star names for planets.
- A typical omen from the series might read:
"If the moon becomes visible on the first day: reliable speech; the land will be happy.
If the day reaches its normal length: a reign of long days.
If the moon at its appearance wears a crown: the king will reach the highest rank."
- Only about 30% of the tablets have been translated into modern languages, and many omens remain unpublished or only partially reconstructed.
- Some tablets are known only by number or subject, with their contents still uncertain or missing.

The Enuma Anu Enlil is a vast collection of celestial and atmospheric omens, covering the moon, sun, planets, weather, and more.
- Tablet 63 of this series is the Venus Tablet of Ammisaduqa, which specifically records Venus’s appearances and disappearances and their astrological significance.
- The omens in the rest of the Enuma Anu Enlil are based on a wide range of astronomical and meteorological phenomena—not just Venus.
- While Tablet 63 is focused on Venus and includes omens derived from Venus’s observed movements, the other tablets in the series focus on omens from the moon, sun, eclipses, weather, and other planets.
- The final 20 tablets of the series are dedicated to the stars and planets, with planetary omens often encoded using the names of fixed stars and constellations. While Venus receives the most attention, especially for its appearances and disappearances, there are also omen sections for Mars and Jupiter (notably their retrograde arcs and other phenomena), as well as for Mercury and Saturn.
- Ev Cochrane has suggested that Mercury was not visible or not important to the ancients, but historical evidence from Babylonian astronomy shows that Mercury was observed and recorded, even if it was more difficult to track than other planets.

[nick c]

Lloyd,

Just look at the invisibilities as recorded in the tablets and compare them to what we see today.
They are not the same!
Tell me how Huber reconciles these differences.

[Brigit]

I transcribed the passage from Worlds in Collision, p. 198-200, on the Resources board.

viewtopic.php?t=1425

[Lloyd]

371295

Nick, I posted MAMMALS EVOLVED DURING FLOOD at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ring-flood. Do you think it's okay to copy a TPOD there without explicit permission? If not, let me know and I'll revise it, or you're welcome to ask for permission on my behalf, if it's a simple matter. Thanks again for reminding me about rapid electrical evolution.

I'll try to look more into the Venus tablet tomorrow.

Brigit, Worlds in Collision is online at https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/arch ... lision.pdf. And Earth in Upheaval is at https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/arch ... heaval.pdf. I have a pretty extensive Bibliography at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/cataclys ... ient-myths.

[nick c]

Do you think it's okay to copy a TPOD there without explicit permission? If not, let me know and I'll revise it, or you're welcome to ask for permission on my behalf, if it's a simple matter.

It is okay to post a TPOD, as long as proper credit is given. For example, you should note that it is from the TB website with perhaps a link, and credit the author by name, if applicable.

[Lloyd]

Thanks, Nick.

[Lloyd]

372061

MY RECENT POSTS

MAMMALS EVOLVED DURING FLOOD https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ring-flood
They Evolved During Major Cataclysms (the Flood and the Younger Dryas)
CONTENTS: INTRO; AI SUMMARY; EVIDENCE #1; EVIDENCE #2; OTHERS
I mentioned this briefly the other day. I remembered that many years ago Thunderbolts had a story about how strong electric fields
can cause major changes in species. So I just realized recently that I've been hearing from Marinus et al papers that the Earth's electric field surely increased manifold during the events that caused plasma apparitions at the poles

HOW GEOLOGY TOOK WRONG TURN https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... wrong-turn
Starting in Early to Mid 1800s
CONTENTS: INTRO; MOST INFLUENTIAL ANTICREATIONISM BEFORE 1900; GERMAN HIGHER CRITICS; LYELL’S ARGUMENTS; 20TH CENTURY ANTICREATIONISM; MY COMMENTS
I'm not a Creationist, but I'm very confident that they're largely right about the Great Flood. Though early geologists thought sedimentary rocks were good evidence for the Flood, science became increasingly authoritarian and a popularity contest, instead of unbiased. Lyell was the first to promote uniformitarianism.

AI says: Immanuel Velikovsky does comment on Charles Lyell in Worlds in Collision. In the book, Velikovsky discusses how the theory of catastrophes in geology was replaced by the theory of evolution in geology (Lyell) and biology (Darwin). He specifically notes that the earlier view of geological catastrophes was "supplanted by a theory of evolution in geology (Lyell) and biology (Darwin)". This indicates Velikovsky's awareness of Lyell's role in shifting scientific consensus from catastrophism to uniformitarianism in geology. ... Velikovsky argued that collective amnesia—what he sometimes called "cultural amnesia"—played a crucial role in the scientific community's embrace of uniformitarianism. According to Velikovsky, humanity experienced traumatic global catastrophes in its past, but the psychological shock was so great that these memories were repressed or encoded as myths and legends rather than retained as literal history.

SPREAD THE WORD RE DESTRUCTION https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... estruction
Of Archeological Sites in Peru Etc.
A Youtube channel called Pillars of the Past has a new video showing a worrisome trend of archeological sites in Peru being destroyed for agriculture and mining. The site has 44 videos in all so far since a year ago, mostly showing archeology in Peru, and I listed the titles along with links.

POLYPLOID PLANTS FAST EVOLUTION https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -evolution
During Cataclysmic Events
CONTENTS: OUR POLYPLOID CROPS; PLANT STRESS AS IN CATACLYSMS CAUSES POLYPLOIDY; YOUNGER DRYAS STRESSES; YOUNDER DRYAS COSMIC RAYS
After writing lately about how mammals apparently evolved rapidly during the Great Flood, I remembered many years ago reading about the then mystery of polyploid crops. It was discovered then that many human garden crops were polyploid, having more than one set of DNA. After doing a little research now, I find that they now know that stress causes polyploidy. So, after first thinking that stronger electric fields might cause polyploidy, but finding that was basically wrong and that stress is the cause, putting 2 and 2 together again, I figured the stresses of the Flood and the Younger Dryas cataclysms should have been sufficient to do the job. So now I have some more stuff to cram into my ebook.

[Lloyd]

372072

CATACLYSMS, WATER MOVEMENT, EARTHQUAKES, VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS

I was surprised to learn now that relatively small amounts of water movement can cause large earthquakes.

I asked AI: In these examples, how much water movement was involved that led to earthquakes?
"It has been demonstrated that the filling of a reservoir can cause weak to strong earthquakes. For instance, the slow impoundment of water behind Koyna Dam in India caused numerous earthquakes, one a magnitude 6.3 earthquake that killed 200 people.22,23 It is suggested that the filling of the new Zipingpu Dam in China caused the great magnitude 7.9 earthquake in Sichuan that killed 80,000 people.23,24 The filling of reservoirs on the upper Yangtze River in China is believed by some scientists to have caused a magnitude 6.5 earthquake that killed more than 600 people.25" https://creation.com/ice-age-megaflood

Water Movement Involved in Reservoir-Induced Earthquakes
_Koyna Dam (India):
The Koyna Dam impounds a large reservoir, and seismicity in the region increased significantly after the reservoir was first filled. The dam's reservoir holds about 2.8 billion cubic meters of water. The relationship between water movement and earthquakes here is well-documented: rapid filling and drawdown cycles of the reservoir have been directly correlated with increased earthquake activity, including the 1967 magnitude 6.3 event that killed around 200 people. The seismicity is attributed to both the weight of the water (direct loading) and the infiltration of water into faults, which increases pore pressure and weakens fault zones.
_Zipingpu Dam (China):
The Zipingpu Dam reservoir has a total storage capacity of about 1.1 billion cubic meters (1.1 × 10^9 m³). The dam is 156 meters high and was filled relatively quickly prior to the 2008 Wenchuan (Sichuan) earthquake. Scientific studies indicate that the impoundment of the reservoir formed a "pore pressure front" that slowly propagated through the crust via fluid diffusion, potentially activating a nearby fault and contributing to the magnitude 7.9 earthquake. The weight of the water and the infiltration into the crust are both implicated in triggering seismic activity.
_Upper Yangtze River Reservoirs (China):
Although specific volumes are not detailed in the search results, the upper Yangtze River hosts several large reservoirs, each storing hundreds of millions to billions of cubic meters of water. The filling of these reservoirs is believed by some scientists to have contributed to a magnitude 6.5 earthquake that killed more than 600 people, likely through similar mechanisms of increased weight and pore pressure changes.
_Mechanisms Linking Water Movement to Earthquakes
_Direct Loading: The weight of the water in a reservoir increases the stress on underlying faults, which can bring them closer to failure.
_Pore Pressure Increase: Water infiltrates the ground and increases pore pressure along fault lines, reducing friction and making it easier for faults to slip.
_Fluid Diffusion: The propagation of increased pore pressure can be gradual, leading to delayed seismic responses even years after initial reservoir filling.

I then asked AI: Can earthquakes or water movement lead to volcanism?
_Earthquakes can trigger volcanic eruptions if the volcano is already primed for activity, with mechanisms including static or dynamic stress transfer that alters the pressure or permeability within magmatic or hydrothermal systems, potentially mobilizing magma or fluids and initiating an eruption; however, such triggering is rare, and most often results in increased volcanic unrest rather than a full-scale eruption.
_Water movement can also trigger volcanic eruptions by various means: water released from subducting plates lowers the melting point of mantle rocks and generates magma in subduction zones, while at or near the surface, water-magma interactions (such as phreatomagmatic eruptions) can cause explosive activity when water rapidly turns to steam upon contact with hot magma, and even heavy rainfall or groundwater infiltration can increase pore pressure and destabilize volcanic systems, making water a key factor in both the formation and eruption of many volcanoes.

The few survivors of the Great Flood then would likely have experienced quite a bit more earthquakes and maybe volcanic eruptions than in the present. By the time of the Younger Dryas impacts and floods, there would have been many more people and animals to experience similar disasters.

[Lloyd]

VENUS TABLET/S

Nick, I got this table from Perplexity.AI. It kept wanting to give me the "corrected" version, but I kept insisting on the original, and I think it finally relented. If this below is an accurate translation of the original, as it says, then there are a few errors in the table or tablet, which are indicated by parentheses and asterisks and explained at the end. I put the numbers from each line at the beginning of each line for convenience. See if the numbers in the actual translated text seem to be the original, ignoring parenthetic numbers. If we can agree on what's the original text, we can then analyze it for potential indication of catastrophism etc.

Venus Tablet of Ammisaduqa (Literal Translation, Section I, Years 1–21)
(ES=EAST SETTING, WR=WEST RISING, WS=WEST SETTING, ER=EAST RISING, xx=EAST SETTING; SETTING=DISAPPEARANCE; RISING=REAPPEARANCE)
_Line 1.
ES --- 3,15,3 --- In month III, day 15, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 3,18,9,4 --- In month III, day 18, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 9(4) months 4(27) days in the sky,
WS --- 8,15,5 --- disappeared in month VIII, day 15. After 5 days,
ER --- 9,18,7,11 --- in month IX, day 18, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7(6) months 11(27) days,
xx --- 4,15 --- disappeared in month IV, day 15.
_Line 2.
ES --- 4,16,3 --- In month IV, day 16, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 5,3,10,2 --- In month V, day 3, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 2 days,
WS --- 9,5,7 --- disappeared in month IX, day 5. After 7 days,
ER --- 10,8,7,4 --- in month X, day 8, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 4(7) days,
xx --- 5,15 --- disappeared in month V, day 15.
_Line 3.
ES --- 5,15,3 --- In month V, day 15, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 6,1,10,6 --- In month VI, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 6 days,
WS --- 10,7,8 --- disappeared in month X, day 7. After 8 days,
ER --- 11,10,7,4 --- in month XI, day 10, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 4 days,
xx --- 6,14 --- disappeared in month VI, day 14.
_Line 4.
ES --- 6,14,3 --- In month VI, day 14, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 7,2,10,6 --- In month VII, day 2, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 6 days,
WS --- 11,8,8 --- disappeared in month XI, day 8. After 8 days,
ER --- 12,11,7,2 --- in month XII, day 11, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 2 days,
xx --- 7,13 --- disappeared in month VII, day 13.
_Line 5.
ES --- 7,13,3 --- In month VII, day 13, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 8,1,10,9 --- In month VIII, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 9(8) days,
WS --- 12,9,8 --- disappeared in month XII, day 9. After 8 days,
ER --- 1,12,7,0 --- in month I, day 12, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 0 days,
xx --- 8,12 --- disappeared in month VIII, day 12.
_Line 6.
ES --- 8,12,3 --- In month VIII, day 12, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 9,1,10,9 --- In month IX, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 1,10,8 --- disappeared in month I, day 10. After 8 days,
ER --- 2,13,7,0 --- in month II, day 13, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 0 days,
xx --- 9,11 --- disappeared in month IX, day 11.
_Line 7.
ES --- 9,11,3 --- In month IX, day 11, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 10,1,10,9 --- In month X, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 2,11,8 --- disappeared in month II, day 11. After 8 days,
ER --- 3,14,7,0 --- in month III, day 14, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 0 days,
xx --- 10,10 --- disappeared in month X, day 10.
_Line 8.
ES --- 10,10,3 --- In month X, day 10, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 11,1,10,9 --- In month XI, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 3,12,8 --- disappeared in month III, day 12. After 8 days,
ER --- 4,15,7,0 --- in month IV, day 15, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 0 days,
xx --- 11,9 --- disappeared in month XI, day 9.
_Line 9.
ES --- 11,9,3 --- In month XI, day 9, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 12,1,10,9 --- In month XII, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 4,13,8 --- disappeared in month IV, day 13. After 8 days,
ER --- 5,16,7,0 --- in month V, day 16, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 0 days,
xx --- 12,8 --- disappeared in month XII, day 8.
_Line 10.
ES --- 12,8,3 --- In month XII, day 8, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 1,1,10,9 --- In month I, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 5,14,8 --- disappeared in month V, day 14. After 8 days,
ER --- 6,17,7,0 --- in month VI, day 17, Venus became visible in the east; stayed 7 months 0 days,
xx --- 1,7 --- disappeared in month I, day 7.
_Line 11.
ES --- 1,7,3 --- In month I, day 7, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 2,1,10,9 --- In month II, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 6,15,8 --- disappeared in month VI, day 15. After 8 days,
ER --- 7,18,7,0 --- in month VII, day 18, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 0 days,
xx --- *2,11 --- disappeared in month II, day 11.
_Line 12.
ES --- *2,6,3 --- In month II, day 6, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 3,1,10,9 --- In month III, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 7,16,8 --- disappeared in month VII, day 16. After 8 days,
ER --- 8,19,7,0 --- in month VIII, day 19, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 0 days,
xx --- *3,12 --- disappeared in month III, day 12.
_Line 13.
ES --- *3,5,3 --- In month III, day 5, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 4,1,10,9 --- In month IV, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 8,17,8 --- disappeared in month VIII, day 17. After 8 days,
ER --- 9,20,7,0 --- in month IX, day 20, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 0 days,
xx --- *4,13 --- disappeared in month IV, day 13.
_Line 14.
ES --- *4,4,3 --- In month IV, day 4, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 5,1,10,9 --- In month V, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 9,18,8 --- disappeared in month IX, day 18. After 8 days,
ER --- 10,21,7,0 --- in month X, day 21, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 0 days,
xx --- *5,14 --- disappeared in month V, day 14.
_Line 15.
ES --- *5,3,3 --- In month V, day 3, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 6,1,10,9 --- In month VI, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 9 days,
WS --- 10,19,8 --- disappeared in month X, day 19. After 8 days,
ER --- 11,22,7,0 --- in month XI, day 22, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 0 days,
xx --- *6,14 --- disappeared in month VI, day 14.
_Line 16.
ES --- *6,2,3 --- In month VI, day 2, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 7,1,10,19 --- In month VII, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 19 days,
WS --- 11,20,3 --- disappeared in month XI, day 20. After 3 days,
ER --- 11,23,7,8 --- in month XI, day 23, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 8 days,
xx --- *6,1 --- disappeared in month VI, day 1.
_Line 17.
ES --- *7,1,3 --- In month VII, day 1, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 8,1,10,20 --- In month VIII, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 20 days,
WS --- 12,21,3 --- disappeared in month XII, day 21. After 3 days,
ER --- 12,24,7,8 --- in month XII, day 24, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 8 days,
xx --- *7,1 --- disappeared in month VII, day 1.
_Line 18.
ES --- *8,1,3 --- In month VIII, day 1, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 9,1,10,21 --- In month IX, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 21 days,
WS --- 1,22,3 --- disappeared in month I, day 22. After 3 days,
ER --- 1,25,7,7 --- in month I, day 25, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 7 days,
xx --- *8,1 --- disappeared in month VIII, day 1.
_Line 19.
ES --- *9,1,3 --- In month IX, day 1, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 10,1,10,22 --- In month X, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 22 days,
WS --- 2,23,3 --- disappeared in month II, day 23. After 3 days,
ER --- 2,26,7,6 --- in month II, day 26, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 6 days,
xx --- *9,1 --- disappeared in month IX, day 1.
_Line 20.
ES --- *10,1,3 --- In month X, day 1, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 11,1,10,23 --- In month XI, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 23 days,
WS --- 3,24,3 --- disappeared in month III, day 24. After 3 days,
ER --- 3,27,7,5 --- in month III, day 27, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 5 days,
xx --- *10,1 --- disappeared in month X, day 1.
_Line 21.
ES --- *11,1,3 --- In month XI, day 1, Venus disappeared in the east; for 3 days it was not seen.
WR --- 12,1,10,24 --- In month XII, day 1, Venus became visible in the west; stayed about 10(4) months 24 days,
WS --- 4,25,3 --- disappeared in month IV, day 25. After 3 days,
ER --- 4,28,7,4 --- in month IV, day 28, Venus became visible in the east; stayed about 7 months 4 days,
xx --- *11,1 --- disappeared in month XI, day 1.

Errors: The intervals WR-WS on each line are about 6 months off; they should say 4 months instead of 10 or 9. Corrections are shown in parentheses.
The "xx" (last disappearance) vs. next line's "ES" (first disappearance):
What Should Happen: In a continuous and accurate record, the "xx" date at the end of one line (the second disappearance of Venus as Morning Star in that cycle) should match the "ES" date at the start of the next line. This is because the "xx" event marks the end of one cycle, and the next "ES" event should be the very next disappearance, so the dates should be identical for a seamless sequence.
What Actually Happens (Lines 11–21): From line 11 onward, the "xx" date at the end of each line does not match the "ES" date at the start of the next line.
The mismatches are marked by asterisks.

[Brigit]

Lloyd,

Here is just one of the latest Thunderbolts Project presentations on Rapid Speciation (7 months ago) --
Peter Mungo Jupp: How Far Can Kangaroos Swim? | Thunderbolts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmgB6w4Xdo
dur 13:50

This one deals with the Wallace Line and suggests that powerful electrical scarring on earth in that region also blazed with radiation, causing chromosomes to mutate, or rather, intelligently adapt, in a process called "polyploidy."

Enjoy.

[Lloyd]

.
.
Thanks, Brigit. The Wallace line is interesting and the info on polyploidy. I hope to dig into that more soon.

[Lloyd]

372583

ATLANTIS & YOUNGER DRYAS

I just wrote a post on that at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nger-dryas.

Ev Cochrane has suggested that the story of Atlantis is only a celestial event, not an Earthly one. He has suggested that the stories of the Trojan War and of Moses are also only celestial and not Earthly. I think part of his reason for that view is his acceptance of most mainstream dating. I think he's pretty confident that the age of dinosaurs was many millions of years ago. And he likely accepts that the ice age ended 11,000 years or more ago.

Plato may have confused the polar configuration with the story of Atlantis, since he described it as concentric circles. But if Atlantis was in the Azores west of Portugal, or somewhere like that, any Atlanteans who escaped would likely have fled to western Europe and northwest Africa. And it so happens that people in those areas have had legends of Atlantis and former coastal cities that drowned, without mention of circular design. Even the Basques of northern Spain claim that they came from a place called Atlaintika that submerged. People of western Europe and nearby have more Rh negative blood than other people do, which may be a feature of Atlanteans. Other features are mentioned as well.

There are aspects of the Moses story that sound celestial, but I've found that there is pretty good evidence that the Exodus did occur and the Israelites lived in Goshen in Egypt before the Exodus and they arrived in Canaan starting at Jericho after the Exodus. Homer's works incorporate a lot of celestial events, but David Rohl and others found that many Trojan warriors were evidently the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt etc around 900 BC.

Ev has done a lot of good work showing that Mars and Venus are well described in ancient myths, indicating that they were close to Earth millennia ago, as per the Saturn Theory. Hopefully, he'll be open-minded enough to consider other radical ideas besides those. Because I think there are some that make a very coherent story out of the past.

- C14 dating of dinosaur fossils strongly suggests that they lived a mere few thousand years ago.
- Sedimentary rock strata strongly indicate rapid deposition, showing a Great Flood that drowned the dinosaurs.
- The Ice Age occurred on top of the Flood strata.
- The Younger Dryas impacts occurred on top of the Ice Sheets, which they rapidly melted, causing more flooding.
- Atlantis and other lost cities must have existed before the Younger Dryas.
- Historical ancient civilizations (Egypt, Sumer etc) were likely built after the Younger Dryas.
- Ancient cave paintings and Gobekli Tepe and company may have begun before the Younger Dryas, if they were in locations that Younger Dryas flooding didn't reach. Or Gobekli Tepe may have been buried by the Younger Dryas meltwater flooding, instead of by humans.
- AI says, "About 13,000 years ago, a landslide blocked the Altamira cave entrance, isolating the paintings from humans and protecting them, but water seeped through the cave ceiling over millennia, washing away some pigments and causing irreversible damage." Since mainstream dating is off, that landslide likely occurred during the Younger Dryas cataclysms.