Are the planets growing?

[allynh]

As the Earth Grew, the shallow seas that covered much of the continents drained into the deep oceans that opened up, so it's not that there was more water, it's that the land rose above the ancient seas.

Remember, the crust is not static. it's constantly changing. Sea level has probably been static for a 100k years, with the coastlines rising and falling around the world at the same time.

The theory of the Ice Ages, with two miles of ice sitting on the Northern Continents does not hold water, pun intended.

[allynh]

The ocean science community must put science before stigma with anomalous phenomena
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/ ... phenomena/

The key part from the article:

While flying their F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft, they initially observed an area of roiling whitewater on the ocean surface below them. Hovering just above that was a “white Tic Tac looking” UAP.

This was clearly a plasma event, with the water "roiling" where the plasma column hit the water. The white "tic tac" was probably water vapor in a pinch. If this were over land they would find blobs of metal alloys transmuted from the water vapor.

The Truth about Those "Alien Alloys" in The New York Times UFO Story
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... ufo-story/

This is just like when the sprites were seen in the upper atmosphere. Rather than do science on an observed phenomenon, pilots get shunned for reporting something odd in the atmosphere.

Mystery of the Red Sprites
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brh--gYjZts

This is all just another form of plasma in the atmosphere.

[JoeB]

Without proof of where the mass comes from a hollow Earth is not necessary, because nobody can explain where the big bang mass comes from.
There is no possible cause for the big bang dot, existing or exploding. With a growing planet, there obviously is a cause of some sort. The big bang is a miracle.

How does a miracle make more sense than a knowable unknown, which we can see before our eyes but are not sure how it is happening?

It's as if you believe your theories can falsify reality, rather than reality falsifying your theories.

The person who said that continental drift must be disproven is also wrong. Any ocean floor over 300 million years is wild speculation.

Consensus is the only evidence that makes either of the establishment ideas superior. Logically the crazy ideas are more correct. But consensus just means the ability to get funding, and get published in "respectable (approved) journals" so it's not really science that we are talking about.

[JoeB]

Also, if the Earth were hollow, gravity would have decreased instead of increased. Therefore, matter is being created, and the big bang miracle is even more false.

[spark]

Peter Woodhead explains how the earth expands without requiring any significant mass increase.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCnPOi5qOU
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iIWYYNkgJQ

Increase in earths gravity has to do with increase in earths capacitance as it expands. Gravity is electric.
https://www.checktheevidence.com/wordpr ... y-mystery/ (Scroll to "Capacitance and Gravity".)
Wal Thornhill on Dipole Electric Gravity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvfFJiUWuDk
Fredrik Nygaard on Dipole Electric Gravity: https://www.checktheevidence.com/wordpr ... ing-earth/

[johnm33]

A possibility for the mass/gravity prolem is that all the planets and moons have iron cores inherited from their parent star, it's the EM potential of that iron that allows them to find a slot in the hydrodynamic flux around other planets or the sun and maintain an orbit. The ionised iron core slowly breaks down and over time becomes more or less saturated with hydrogen ions/protons adding to the density and charge potential without increasing volume. This 'body' has a strong repulsive effect on all the atomic nuclei nearby, reducing with distance, and has a more or less single layer of 'electrons' as a shared shell. When subject to electrical or kinetic shock of sufficient magnitude there can be a massive breakout of H+ which immediately create a whole range of solvents in situe at supercritical temps/pressures these create a range of exothermic reactions many of which are further catalysed by the platinum group metals in the layer surrounding the core. I suspect the two hot 'blobs' within the Earth were created like this. Sufficient heat will be created by the exothermic reactions to liquify all the platinum group metals, and many others, and these will migrate upwards as cracks form often being carried in hydrogen based solvents as ore bodies. There may be a series of expansive events before any equilibrium is reached, but when things settle the iron core will be somewhat smaller through melt and conversion to a different crystaline structure and it will also be depleted of it's H+ 'reserves' and thus be considerably less repulsive, plus the surface will have retreated somewhat.
Consider that perhaps SiO4 is present in quantity near the outer core boundary and the introduction of H+ alters the compound to H4Si which is a solvent, H2O similarly and SiO2 dissolved within the H2O and the silica flows upwards as a superheated liquid carrying dissolved P.group metals and actually bursting forth from the surface, immediately turning to vapour and fine sand adding a whole ocean of water to the surface.

[JoeB]

Hollow earth is a necessary conclusion without any explanation for where the mass comes from.

Why would you purposely make a false conclusion, or make a guess because you didn't have the explanation?

What you said is a false statement... the Big Bang Miracle has a worse problem - there is no possible cause or explanation. And something with no cause means it takes zero energy to happen, so what happened once should be happening all the time. It is just a miracle. You could just as well use the same logic as the big bang miracle proponents, and say that there are little big bangs happening inside planets. Your reasoning is flawed.

Why are you allowed to have miracles in your theories but I'm not?

Even if it were correct, I have seen many theories about mass creation. Here goes one now:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ding_Earth

So pick one, or don't. I think it's flawed to pick something like "hollow earth" or any choice as to what is causing the matter creation, or any other choice in life, just because you have to choose something, because it is just choosing to believe things while having no idea whether they are true or not. That is called faith and religion. It defies all logic.

The true answer is that you don't know.

[Open Mind]

Hollow earth is a necessary conclusion without any explanation for where the mass comes from.

Why would you purposely make a false conclusion, or make a guess because you didn't have the explanation?

What you said is a false statement... the Big Bang Miracle has a worse problem - there is no possible cause or explanation. And something with no cause means it takes zero energy to happen, so what happened once should be happening all the time. It is just a miracle. You could just as well use the same logic as the big bang miracle proponents, and say that there are little big bangs happening inside planets. Your reasoning is flawed.

Why are you allowed to have miracles in your theories but I'm not?

Even if it were correct, I have seen many theories about mass creation. Here goes one now:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ding_Earth

So pick one, or don't. I think it's flawed to pick something like "hollow earth" or any choice as to what is causing the matter creation, or any other choice in life, just because you have to choose something, because it is just choosing to believe things while having no idea whether they are true or not. That is called faith and religion. It defies all logic.

The true answer is that you don't know.

I had to search way back to find my post. And I haven't re read everything I was following to understand why I made that response. But my assumption was it was a discussion about ways to explain an absence for a mechanism of mass increase. So I'm guessing people were talking about earth expansion being a model that has lead to the coining of the term "Balloon Earth". Meaning that the earth does expand, but without mass increase, its simply blowing up like a balloon, and the mass remains unaffected.

I'm not against a hollow earth idea, (After all, the moon did ring), but I'm not a fan of a fixed mass earth expanding the crustal layer to what I guess becomes a thinner and thinner crustal layer. I can't disprove that idea, obviously, but if I apply Occam's Razor to it, it feels weak. Which is why I was offering the recent findings by Safire of the transmutation mechanism, to throw into the mixture, so we don't HAVE to imagine a mechanism that seems to suffer from a limited time frame before it 'pops'. Doesn't it feel like a better mechanism, if we can imagine an increasing mass that follows and therefore maintains the integrity of the planets crust?

[allynh]

"And in theory, water vapor expelled by the eruptions can be a greenhouse gas."

They still can't accept that the added water vapor is why we had such a warm 2023.

Volcano That Blasted Seawater into the Stratosphere May Have Damaged Ozone Layer
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... one-layer/

The Hunga Tonga–Hunga Ha‘apai volcano erupted in January 2022 with the force of an atomic weapon. The disaster has launched dozens of new studies about global warming

The Hunga Tonga–Hunga Ha‘apai volcano erupted in January 2022 with the force of an atomic weapon. The disaster has launched dozens of new studies about global warming
https://static.scientificamerican.com/s ... source.jpg

CLIMATEWIRE | Scientists around the world are exploring the climate impacts of what appears to be one of the largest and farthest reaching volcanic eruptions in history. It began rumbling in late December 2021 and culminated in a towering plume rising over two tiny, uninhabited islands in the South Pacific called Hunga Tonga and Hunga Ha'apai.

What made this eruption special was its location and its power — it came from an underwater volcano that exploded with the force of a large nuclear weapon Jan. 13, 2022, and again Jan. 15, 2022. According to a recent report by NOAA, the eruptions launched a record slug of seawater — an estimated 150 million tons of it. Some of it even reached the stratosphere.

The force behind the eruptions, the unusual presence of water in the plume and the plume's continued movement around the globe have caught the attention of researchers worldwide. NOAA scientists say the eruptions have spawned dozens of new studies about climate change.

One question they're trying to answer is whether the chemical mix in the eruptions could inflict more damage to the Earth’s protective ozone layer, an atmospheric shield that blocks the harmful ultraviolet rays of sunlight. For instance, chlorine in the giant plume might react with water and partially degrade the ozone layer. And in theory, water vapor expelled by the eruptions can be a greenhouse gas.

The plume may also help determine whether it’s possible — as some scientists predict — to geoengineer clouds of sulfur dioxide, a gas contained in the plume, that might shade parts of the Earth from global warming. Currently, scientists can only generate a relatively small cloud of sulfur dioxide, but studying the impacts of a much larger cloud may help answer the question of whether the approach can help decrease temperatures by reflecting sunlight back into space.

“This is like a huge validation test of our climate models,” said Karen Rosenlof, a senior scientist at NOAA’s Chemical Sciences Laboratory, speaking broadly about the eruption. She was alerted to the eruption in time to get a collection of U.S. scientists and newly invented portable instruments to a French island called Reunion in the Indian Ocean.

Reunion is 8,000 miles to the west of the eruptions, but as she explained in an interview, the team arrived ready to launch weather balloons carrying instruments that helped them measure the contents of the unusual plume as it drifted overhead — pushed westward by winds from Hunga Tonga.

The questions raised by the eruption “have brought together a lot of people world-wide to try and study and analyze all of this,” Rosenlof said.

One study she co-authored with a team of scientists showed that the plume developed three times faster than under normal stratospheric conditions and carried “an unexpected abundance of large particles” — but not as much sulfur as expected. The sulfur, even at lower levels, still can help inform geoengineering research because of the size of the plume.

Another study she helped write concluded that the “plume created ideal conditions for swift ozone depletion,” which may help researchers learn more about gaps in the ozone layer and how they developed, such as one scientists have found over the South Pole.

More studies are coming, including one mandated by the Montreal Protocol that's due in 2026. The international agreement calls for periodic testing of emissions that can cause harm in the stratosphere, and it could pick up more data from the eruptions.

According to NASA, Hunga Tonga was the largest underwater explosion ever recorded, and the blast likely will not be repeated anytime soon, in large part because the volcano was under 490 feet of water. If it were shallower, it would have spread less water. If it were deeper, “the immense pressures in the ocean’s depths could have muted the eruption.”

Reprinted from E&E News with permission from POLITICO, LLC. Copyright 2023. E&E News provides essential news for energy and environment professionals.

[allynh]

As I've said before, the structures show where the hollow part of the Earth is, not sunken fragments of another world.

Anomalies Deep Inside Earth Are Wreckage of Crashed Alien World, Scientists Propose
https://www.vice.com/en/article/epvq9k/ ... ts-propose

Anomalies Deep Inside Earth Are Wreckage of Crashed Alien World, Scientists Propose
Scientists have proposed that the wreckage of a long-lost alien world is buried about 1,800 miles under our feet, reports a new study. This mind-boggling hypothesis suggests that strange anomalies in Earth’s interior may be relics of a world that smashed into our planet some 4.5 billion years ago, and that similar ancient remnants may lurk inside other celestial bodies.

The infant solar system was much wilder and more tumultuous than it is today, with lots of crashes between small embryonic worlds called protoplanets. Scientists have long suspected that an ancient protoplanet known as Theia, which could have been as large as Mars, hurtled into Earth in this period. This catastrophic collision ejected debris from Theia and Earth into space, where it eventually coalesced into the Moon, so the theory goes.

Now, scientists led by Qian Yuan, a postdoctoral scholar in geophysics at the California Institute of Technology, present new evidence that remnants of Theia may have also become lodged deep in the Earth’s mantle, where they have survived to the present day. This hypothesis could explain the curious presence of two massive “blobs” inside Earth known as large low-velocity provinces (LLVPs), which appear denser than the surrounding mantle in seismic observations of our planet’s interior, since seismic waves travel through them at a significantly lower velocity than in surrounding material.

Yuan and his colleagues “show that LLVPs may represent buried relics of Theia mantle material (TMM) that was preserved in proto-Earth’s mantle after the Moon-forming giant impact” and note that “similar mantle heterogeneities caused by impacts may also exist in the interiors of other planetary bodies,” according to a study published on Wednesday in Nature.

“The initial condition of Earth may play a crucial role in Earth's evolution and many uniquenesses,” Yuan told Motherboard in an email. “And that initial condition is widely believed to be set by the Moon-forming impact.”

Yuan first started pondering whether the LLVPs might be remnants of Theia years ago while he was pursuing his PhD at Arizona State University. He developed the concept with his colleagues using geodynamical models, and formally presented it at the 52nd Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in 2021.

Now, Yuan and his team have built on those initial findings by running much more advanced simulations of the giant impact that likely formed the Moon, as well as the long-term fallout of this clash inside the infant Earth. The researchers investigated whether the LLVPs, which are each several hundred miles across, could feasibly be remnants of Theia that became entrapped in our planet as it reeled from the collision 4.5 billion years ago.

“The significant improvements we have this time are from the Moon-forming impact simulations,” explained Yuan, who credited his co-authors Hongping Deng and Jacob Kegerreis for the advanced models.

“Both of their impact simulations show this collision did not melt the whole Earth's mantle, and the lower half of Earth's mantle is mostly solid and it captures an amount of Theia's mantle (~2% of Earth's whole mass ) that is consistent with the Earth's present blobs,” he added.

In other words, the team’s new and improved models support the idea that the LLVPs may be the remains of Theia, which helped to create the Moon when it careened into Earth. In addition, Yuan and his colleagues pointed to evidence that the blobs contain primordial elements that predate the Moon-forming impact event. This hints that the LLVPs must be extremely ancient, a timeline that does not fit as well with explanations that suggest the blobs are masses of subducted oceanic crust, or remnants of Earth’s differentiation phase.

It’s utterly wild to imagine that we are all going about our daily lives while continent-sized splinters of a shattered world lurk beneath our feet, which may even be leaking extraterrestrial materials to surface basalt through plumes in the interior of Earth. But while this hypothesis is highly compelling, it will take much more research and experimentation to bear it out.

To that end, Yuan and his colleagues hope that parts of Theia may be preserved on the surface of the Moon, which is far more accessible than the deep layer of Earth where the LLVPs exist.

“I look forward to seeing future missions on the Moon to bring back its mantle rocks, which are very likely to come from the impactor Theia according to the majority of Moon-forming impact simulations.” Yuan said. “If the lunar mantle rock and LLVP-related basalts share the same chemical signatures, they should both originate from Theia.”

Moreover, the team noted that other planets may also contain the fossils of ancient worlds inside their bellies, given that impacts appear to be very common in many early star systems. NASA’s InSight mission to Mars, which ended last year, has revealed unprecedented details about the red planet’s interior, and future missions could potentially detect the relics of extraterrestrial worlds within other extraterrestrial worlds, like otherworldly nesting dolls.

“I've been talking to people who work on InSight data about the possibility, but since it only has one seismometer, I imagine it will be very very challenging to observe the 3D structures of the blobs if Mars has them,” Yuan concluded. “Most of the InSight work is still working on 1D structures of its interior, but since Mars has been suggested to have had a giant impact to form the crustal dichotomy, it may have related heterogeneities, which needs future more seismometers to test the hypothesis.”

[allynh]

I started reading:

Megalithic Chemistry
https://thedailyplasma.blog/2024/07/28/ ... chemistry/

and almost stopped. Luckily I read the whole thing. The shocking stuff was buried deep in the article, and utterly destroyed me.

Well done.

- If the Moon was in a two-day orbit, what would it look like from Earth.

Here are some visual examples:

If the planets replaced our moon (Realistic)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQRbxjskrPc

The Moon went from a two-day orbit around Earth to what looks like a twenty-nine day orbit, but that does not match reality:

The Moon Does Not Go Around the Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUo2tp_yvRY

Here is the Wiki page where it is mentioned:

Path of Earth and Moon around Sun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_ ... around_Sun

Here is the book on Kindle:

An Elementary Treatise on the Lunar Theory, With a Brief Sketch of the History of the Problem Before Newton
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N9JPCO8

- How big would the tides be.

- Was the Moon smaller while it was in the two-day orbit.

- How much did it grow as it transitioned to the current size and orbit.

The concept opens up a ton of fun questions. I'm definitely going to use this stuff in my novels.

[allynh]

Wow, this video is major.

Stuart Talbott: Planet Formation Is Electromagnetic | Thunderbolts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxdNgmT-jls

The thing that wasn't mentioned, is that new matter is probably being made as the stars are created.

[allynh]

YouTube has been putting a number of fun documentaries into my feed lately. This one is a good summary about UFOs. Near the end there is a segment showing the metal samples that come from UFOs:

The Phenomenon | Full Documentary
https://youtu.be/QyFVqLzGTvY&t=4665

When they mentioned "metal" debris, that fell from UFOs years ago, I always wondered what they meant. They are little pieces that fit into test tubes, not machined parts. As soon as I saw them, and the readings from the sensor I said, "Transmutation" HA!

It is clear that the UFOs were atmospheric plasma events, creating a "Z-pinch" that caused the plasma to Transmute into heavier elements and fall to the ground.

- This is what happened with the Safire Project electrodes.

All the atoms around us are new, made here on Earth, not in some "supernova" far away in space.

They are spending all their time assuming "machined" parts, and it is Transmutation. If they had realized "that" they could move on to the next important step and see what UFOs actually are.

[allynh]

Forgot to add the link to the Safire video to compare with The Phenomenon clip.

Special Feature: SAFIRE PROJECT 2019 UPDATE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTaXfbvGf8E

[Brigit]

I just came across this comment by allynh --

https://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =974#p9120


Thank you for that description of various works of fiction based on Julian Jaynes book, The Origin of Consciousness and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. That is crazy. I love it. I hardly ever read fiction and I like how you are able to bring it into the discussions. I am surprised not to have a lot of responses to that post you wrote.

I was still in shock at the time, iirc. I was trying to bring this aspect of planetary cataclysms and brain science together, but I was only able to really focus every few days. Thank you again for that very interesting comment, allynh.

Also, this is a great thread. Very readable and informative.