Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Feb 15, 2025 12:56 am

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REQUIREMENTS FOR SATURN’S CRESCENT

(This is from a draft I've been working on at https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/155384 ... s-crescent .)

Ancients apparently depicted the polar trio with the Saturn crescent in the 4 main phases all on one stone. (The image is from the video, “Discourses on an Alien Sky #12 | Turning Crescent & Pillar of the Sky”. It shows the Trio circles in a crescent, where the crescent is on different sides of the Trio, apparently as Earth was rotating each day. I think show: Left: Moon Phases Visualization; Right: Crescent Jupiter; both images are turned ccw 90 degrees - so their crescents are recumbent, or lying down. Then there's a Moon Phase Animation Video Image: Left being view of Earth & Moon from above the north or south pole; Right being view of crescent Moon from Earth at the angle shown on Left.)

NECESSARY ORBIT

In order for the former Polar Saturn to look like the crescent Moon in the image, Saturn & Co. would have been in the Moon’s position ... above the Earth’s north pole and the Sun would have been about 50 degrees away where the pink arrow points. The Earth’s axis would have been along the thicker arrow pointing at the Moon. That would have been toward the north pole. The yellow line indicates Earth’s equator. The Sun’s angle would have been about 40 degrees above the equator and the Polar Trio at 90 degrees. Anyone living below the equator would NOT have seen much if anything of the Polar Trio, but would have seen the Sun unless they lived below 45 degrees or so south latitude. Anyone living north of 50 degrees north latitude would have been in constant sunlight, so the Polar Trio would have appeared always dim there. Anyone between 30 & 50 degrees north latitude would have had very short nights, whereas anyone between 0 & 30 would have had almost normal nights. Nights are when the Polar Trio was spectacular. If the Polar Configuration occurred during the Ice Age, after the Great Flood, this would all be plausible offhand (Civilization or pre-civilization was confined then to the lower latitudes).

CRESCENT ORBITAL REQUIREMENT

In order for Saturn’s crescent to remain the same size, as indicated by ancient art, the angle between the Sun, the Earth and the Polar Trio would have had to remain the same, about 45-50 degrees, for as long as the crescent remained that size. If the Polar Trio and Earth were orbiting the Sun, imagine the orbital plane to be on a sheet of paper, Sun in the center and the orbit as a big circle around it. Imagine the Polar Trio to be on one handle of an alligator clip (purple v-shape above), the Earth to be in the jaws at the vertex and the other handle to be on the circular orbit. To maintain the angle, then, between Sun, Earth & Polar Trio, the handle of the Trio would always be facing 45 or so degrees away from the tangent to the orbit. That doesn’t seem like a feasible motion. What seems feasible is for the Trio handle to be on the circle, just like the other handle, but then there would be 0 degrees between handles and there wouldn’t be a Saturn crescent. Instead, Saturn would have looked like a half-moon. But ancient art doesn’t seem to depict that.

WAS THE SATURN TRAIN FARTHER AWAY?

I found an image of crescent Pluto. If the Saturn Train were at Saturn’s orbit when the ancient art was created, it would have been on a 30 year orbit, only about 4 years of which could have perhaps maintained the required angle between Sun, Earth and Saturn. Since Pluto is able to show a crescent at almost 30 AUs distance, maybe the Saturn Train was that far away. Pluto’s period is nearly 250 years, so at that distance, the Saturn Train could have had 30 years or so maintaining the needed angle. Or maybe the Train was on a highly elliptical orbit around the Sun. Then it could have maintained the needed angle for a century or more if the aphelion were beyond Pluto.

(So it looks to me like the Saturn Train had to be on a very distant orbit or a very elliptical one with a very distant aphelion.)

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:14 am

353214

I made 3 posts on my Substack this past week:

1. HALLOWEEN CATACLYSMS at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... cataclysms

2. ANCIENT THEORIES VIDEOS at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ies-videos

3. FEWER MALES DURING ICE AGE at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ng-ice-age

Also, I moved my new Saturn paper from Drafts to my main Substack:
HOW SATURN'S CRESCENT OCCURRED at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... t-occurred

Now, here's something totally new.

MODERN & ANCIENT RADIOACTIVITY

Following is a transcript of this video:
Nuclear Powered Evolution | The Wolves of Chernobyl Reveal Human Potential
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcEZ6oYZfi8
SURVIVORS OF NUCLEAR TESTS. March 1st, 1954 Bikini Atoll Operation Castle Test Bravo. The military expected a 5-megaton blast. They got 15. This miscalculation created a blast 1000 times stronger than Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The fireball reached 20,000,000°F in under a second. That's 2000 times hotter than the sun's surface and twice the temperature of the Sun's core. The mushroom cloud stretched 25 miles high. The blast carved a crater in the sea floor over a mile wide and 300 feet deep, deep enough for a 30 story building. The explosion vaporized three small islands. The lagoon became a radioactive soup. Wind patterns spread fallout across thousands of miles. Locals suffered radiation sickness and evacuated. Over four years, there were another 22 nuclear tests. Scientists believed nothing could survive this. They were wrong. Researchers found nearly 100 species of fish and coral thriving in radioactive water. The crater left by the nuclear bomb was covered in coral, vast colonies of it. Then the researchers found the crabs, coconut crabs on the beach. These crabs eat radioactive coconuts. The water, soil and trees contain cesium 137, a radioactive isotope that destroys DNA and causes cancer. Tests showed lethal radiation levels in the crabs, but they're fine.
HOW? At every nuclear disaster site, different animals, same response. For some reason, nature knows how to handle radiation. But when did life develop these defenses and why?
CHERNOBYL DOGS. Well, years later, Chernobyl provided a clue. Deep in Ukraine's radioactive exclusion zone, something strange was happening to the wolves. In 1986, a safety test at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant failed. The explosion released 400 times more radiation than Hiroshima. The Soviet military gave 100,000 residents hours to evacuate. They established a 1000 square mile exclusion zone around the reactor. The land was declared dead. Nature disagreed. In 2014, Doctor Cara Love studied wolves in the CEZ. Their blood work revealed genetic changes that defied evolution. In just 15 generations, the wolves activated specific DNA repair mechanisms. Each generation grew more and more resistant to radiation. The wolves are exposed to six times the legal safety limit of radiation every day of their lives. Researchers identified the wolves' genetics that seemed resilient to increased cancer risk. But wolves weren't the only animals changing. When Chernobyl was evacuated, people were not allowed to bring their pets. Thousands of cats and dogs were left behind. Most of these animals died from radiation exposure, but not all of them. Studies documented over 800 descendants of the original abandoned dogs living in the exclusion zone. DNA samples from the Chernobyl dogs show their genetics are so unique that they could be classified as a new species. Other animals adapt to it differently. Eastern tree frogs are normally bright green. In Chernobyl, they're black. The increased melanin in their skin protects them from radiation. Birds in the zone develop darker feathers to survive. In 2013, a study revealed that they weren't creating new abilities, they were awakening old ones.
CHERNOBYL FUNGUS. And then there's the fungus. Black fungi in Chernobyl don't just resist radiation, they eat it. They grow toward the reactor core, converting gamma radiation to chemical energy, like plants convert sunlight. NASA tested these fungi on the International Space Station. They processed cosmic radiation in zero gravity. Similar species appeared at other radiation sites at Fukushima. Fungi activated their radiation processing abilities within hours of exposure. When radiation levels dropped, they returned to normal. Johns Hopkins discovered these fungi adapt to different radiation types, from gamma rays to beta particles. Their genes contain instructions for processing all kinds of radiation. These same genes appear in 50 million year old fungi fossils.
ANCIENT RADIATION. So why did ancient life forms develop protection against radiation? Doctor Lynn Rothschild is an astrobiologist at NASA. She says Earth's atmosphere millions of years ago provided less insulation from cosmic radiation. For life to survive, it would have developed methods to protect itself and then pass them down through DNA. Now this makes sense, but there's a hiccup. Cosmic radiation is mostly Protons. The fungi had defenses against neutrons, beta particles, and gamma rays. These don't come from space. These come from uranium, nuclear reactors. They found a nuclear reactor from millions of years ago, and then found 17 of them. There was a time in Earth's history when radiation was much, much higher. In Gabon, West Africa, scientists discovered evidence of at least 17 natural nuclear reactors that operated 2 billion years ago. The Aqua reactors, as they're called, sustained nuclear fission for hundreds of thousands of years. And these reactors weren't small. Each site produced around 100 kilowatts of power, groundwater-moderated reactions creating natural on-off cycles, just like modern nuclear reactors. Scientists are pretty sure they're natural nuclear reactors. Aqua wasn't unique. Similar isotope patterns in Colorado's uranium deposits suggest ancient fission reactions. Uranium mines in Australia show nuclear activity from billions of years ago. The Gunflint chert contains Earth's oldest fossils, with radiation adaptations matching modern bacteria. Life maintain these defenses. Even as Earth's radiation levels decreased, like a biological memory, these mechanisms remained intact through billions of years of evolution.
RADIATION REPAIR GENES. Genes and traits that are no longer useful are eventually removed from the gene pool, but if that's true, why are these genes still here, and why are they in human DNA? Radiation response mechanisms match genetic markers found in ancient human settlements. Our ancestors faced this before they also developed radiation resistance. How do we know? Because their children are still here In Ramsar, Iran, people live with radiation levels 10 times higher than safety limits, yet they have normal cancer rates and normal lifespans. People who lived in the high background areas had significantly fewer induced chromosomal abnormalities than their neighbors, who live maybe just a few kilometers away, where background radiation levels were low. It sounds totally improbable, but it appears that radiation may actually help the body resist genetic damage. Studies reveal Ramsar residents have enhanced DNA repair abilities. Their cells fix radiation damage faster than it accumulates. And they found that other similar populations exist in other parts of the world. Guarapari in Brazil is famous for its beauty, biodiversity and unique radioactive black sand. The Brazilian Nuclear Energy Commission documented enhanced DNA repair in locals going back generations. These populations also have something else in common. Their settlements date back thousands of years. Archaeological evidence shows continuous human habitation near natural radiation sources. Gobekli Tepe, one of humanity's oldest sites, is built near uranium deposits. Similar deposits lie beneath Mesopotamia's oldest cities. These radiation levels should have driven humans away. Instead, our ancestors stayed and became resistant. They passed that resistance to their children, who also passed it on. These protections are in the genes of people living near radioactive sites.
ADAPTING TO SPACE. The genes are in all of us, and they could be the catalyst for humanity's next great leap. Space agencies in every country are trying to unlock human potential. This potential might be achieved in space. Enhanced DNA repair, conscious control over our metabolism, natural radiation shielding within. We might activate these dormant abilities at will. In 1000 years, as humans colonize space, different environments will drive unique adaptations. Colonists on Mars, Titan and Europa will evolve differently, will adapt to their local radiation signature and environment. In 10,000 years, space-dwelling humans might process radiation like food. Their skin could generate protective fields. Their DNA might repair itself instantly. While this is purely speculation, we know these abilities exist in Chernobyl's fungi.
FANTASY LAND. The video goes into Consciousness and Quantum Entanglement mumbo jumbo at that point, which I won't bother to copy here.
CONCLUSION. The dating to billions of years is based on faulty assumptions. C14 has been found consistently in coal, diamonds, dinosaur bones etc, which are normally dated to millions of years, but C14 can only exist for some tens of thousands of years at most. So the billions of years figure is surely way wrong. With abundant evidence of a Great Flood c. 5,200 years ago, that deposited nearly all sedimentary rock on the Earth, when there was one supercontinent of all lowland, everything that existed before the Flood was washed away into the oceans or buried under an average of one-mile-deep sediments, which lithified. The atmosphere was surely much thicker before the Flood, so there were likely fewer cosmic rays before the Flood, but megalightning and other activity during the Flood, such as continents sliding over the plasma Moho layer, likely produced the great increase in radioactivity on the continents. Even some fossils are radioactive, such as a T-rex fossil. Peratt's high-energy "auroras" seem likely to fit in there too, i.e. with megalightning etc.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Mar 01, 2025 8:25 pm

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FROM ROCK ART TO MYTHS

Peratt and Saturnists, like Ev Cochrane, consider that much rock art was created while ancient high-energy plasma events were occurring. So the rock art was the eye-witness record. Ancient myths derived from that and maybe other cataclysmic events. And ancient civilizations recorded the myths, but revised them gradually over time. I just now posted FROM ROCK ART TO MYTHS at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... t-to-myths . It's an effort to determine what conditions were required to produce the polar plasma figures shown in rock art. A much stronger electric field at the poles is said to be required and I show below some of the things that could have produced such a strong field. If Earth were close to a flaring Red Dwarf star, the conditions could have been met. Was Saturn a Red Dwarf? Ev's findings are making it look like Venus might have been the flaring star, instead of Saturn. I haven't yet looked diligently into that possibility. But maybe I will.

Following are the contents or section headings of my paper.

WORLDWIDE CREATION MYTHS SIMILARITIES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... milarities

DAVE TALBOTT’S LIST OF MYTH MOTIFS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... yth-motifs

ROCK ART IMAGES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... art-images

FROM ROCK ART TO MYTHS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... t-to-myths

PERATT’S ROCK ART https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... s-rock-art

FROM PERATT’S ROCK ART TO MYTHS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... t-to-myths

REQUIREMENTS FOR ANCIENT PLASMA APPARITIONS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... pparitions

ORBITING A FLARING DWARF STAR https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... dwarf-star

ROCKY PLANETS’ ATMOSPHERES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... tmospheres

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Mar 03, 2025 4:06 am

35411

SATURN TRAIN CAME FROM OUTER SOLAR SYSTEM

In my recent post, HOW SATURN'S CRESCENT OCCURRED, in this section which I just updated, https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... equirement I show that the Saturn Train could likely not have been on a close orbit around the Sun in order to maintain the bright crescent shape on Saturn for some decades or more. And in this section, https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -crescents , I added info about crescents in ancient rock art. We know there are numerous crescents in other ancient art, but I don't think I've seen crescents in rock art. Since much rock art seems to have been made during the Saturn Age, during cataclysms or during high-energy electrical events in prehistory, surely the art of civilizations that followed right after prehistory should show a progression of motifs, such as crescents etc. If the crescent on Saturn was visible for decades or centuries, then the Saturn Train must have come from at least the distance of Neptune or Pluto. It could have arrived for the first time in the solar system, or it may have been on a highly elliptical orbit.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:59 am

354327

PROOF OF HIGHLY ELECTRIFIED ANCIENT ATMOSPHERE?

ELECTRICITY TO MOLD ANCIENT STONE BLOCKS
I just rewatched this video from a year ago: The Greatest Mystery, Solved. Recreating Ancient Stone Melding Technology, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8hRsg8tWXg . I think the author may have meant to say Stone Melting, instead of Stone Melding, because melding means blending. The video says many ancient megalithic sites have blocks that fit together well because they were melted together using electrodes, which left holes or knobs on the stones. He has a playlist of 3 videos starting with that one, but the other two don't seem closely related. The second one is about lighting ancient lingams. The third is about a water-powered Tesla coil.

ELECTRODES
He said the electrodes used to melt stone blocks together had to be square or hexagonal. At 5'19" in the first video he shows a rod found in the north shaft of the Queen's chamber of the Great Pyramid in 2002. Since the shaft is said to be 8 or 9 inches wide, it looks like the rod must be maybe half an inch in diameter and 16 or more inches long. He labeled it a square rod. I guess it was copper. AI doesn't help with info about that, though I didn't try ChatGPT. I guess copper rods would have worked fine as the electrodes and the Egyptians are known to have used copper.

SOURCE OF ELECTRICITY
AI says,
If Earth were orbiting a flaring red dwarf star with a million times stronger electric field at Earth's poles, lightning on Earth would likely be much more powerful and frequent. The intense electric field would significantly enhance the conditions for lightning formation. Lightning occurs when there is a buildup of electrical charge within clouds or between clouds and the ground. With a dramatically stronger electric field, the threshold for charge separation and discharge would be much lower, leading to more frequent and intense lightning strikes. The increased electric field strength would likely result in:
More powerful lightning bolts with higher energy discharges
A higher frequency of lightning strikes
Potentially longer-lasting lightning events
Lightning occurring in areas where it might be rare under normal conditions
However, it's important to note that such an extreme change in Earth's electromagnetic environment would have far-reaching consequences beyond just lightning. The intense flares from a red dwarf star could pose significant challenges to planetary habitability, including potential atmospheric erosion and increased exposure to harmful radiation.
TESLA COIL
Maybe the water-powered Tesla coil video was meant to supply the electricity for the ancient electrodes. I guess if the ancient Egyptians could make copper electrodes, they could make a Tesla coil, since copper is preferred for them. I asked AI how to modify a Tesla coil to produce higher amperage.
In an ancient scenario with Earth's electric field a million times stronger, a Tesla coil would still face challenges in producing higher amperage electricity. However, some modifications could potentially increase current output:
Improved primary circuit: Using thicker, more conductive materials for the primary coil and capacitor would reduce resistance and allow for higher currents.
Enhanced spark gap: A more efficient spark gap design, perhaps using materials with lower resistance, could facilitate increased current flow.
Resonance optimization: Carefully tuning the primary and secondary circuits to achieve optimal resonance with the enhanced electric field could potentially increase both voltage and current output.
Larger scale: Building a significantly larger coil, similar to Tesla's "magnifying transmitter," might allow for greater power handling capacity.
Atmospheric conductivity: The extremely strong electric field might ionize the surrounding air, potentially increasing its conductivity and allowing for higher current transmission.
TWO PROOFS
Since ancient rock art likely proves that plasma apparitions were seen at Earth's poles, those apparitions prove Earth's ancient electric field was over a million times stronger than now. And electrode holes and knobs in ancient stone blocks may prove that electricity could have been produced with ancient tech because of the strong electric field. I discussed a few years ago, I think, that ancient megalithic structures were possibly built to shield people from a highly electrified environment of the past. AI says there would have been more radioactivity, but I found lately that when creatures are exposed to higher levels of radioactivity, their bodies adapt by repairing DNA damage quickly.

I used to enjoy putting jigsaw puzzles together. I feel like piecing together ancient history is a lot like that. Cataclysmic history is my favorite puzzle and the pieces seem to be coming together nicely.

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nick c
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by nick c » Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:16 pm

Lloyd wrote: He said the electrodes used to melt stone blocks together had to be square or hexagonal. At 5'19" in the first video he shows a rod found in the north shaft of the Queen's chamber of the Great Pyramid in 2002.
The problem I have with the premise that Egyptians used exotic technologies to manufacture stones, is that it is well known from where the stones were quarried. The quarries still exist today and there are stones that the Egyptians partially quarried but did not remove from the quarry. Stones used in structures such as buildings, walls, pyramids, etc. can be matched up to certain quarries. And one remarkable 1,000+ ton obelisk which was abandoned unfinished, probably because of a crack which appeared while it was being quarried. The obelisk bears numerous marks from workers tools.

see: The Unfinished Obelisk


They moved the stones and statues via manpower and barges.

"Painting inside the tomb of the ancient Egyptian nomarch Djehutihotep (1900 BC) showing the transport of a colossal statue of him that was nearly 6.8 m high, being transported by 172 workers using ropes and a slide in an effort that is facilitated by pouring water in front of the slide"
Screenshot 2025-03-05 125609.png
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Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Mar 06, 2025 5:30 am

354500

ANCIENT STONE QUARRIES

Nick, as I understand the video, the stone blocks would have been quarried and shaped by hand to a close tolerance and then the electrodes inserted to soften them so they would fit together tightly. Andrew Hall said a strong electric field makes rock and metal melt at lower temperatures. And the ancient plasma apparitions seem to prove that Earth was in a much stronger electric field in prehistory. I think the lower courses of stone blocks of the Great Pyramid fit tightly together, so they may have been softened with electrodes. An Ancient Architects video said a few years ago in some of his earliest videos that those blocks may have been part of a platform, on which the pyramid was added later. He theorized that the platform was used as a ram pump to irrigate surrounding land. The Saturn Configuration likely dispersed before civilizations started, so the electric field of Earth was probably much lower by then. But the electrode stone softening technology was apparently known in many places worldwide before civilizations began, judging by the many locations where large stone blocks fit together tightly. I think the Saturn Configuration likely broke up around the time of the Younger Dryas events about 4,500 years ago. The Golden Age and Ice Age were at the same time before that, one in lower latitudes and one in higher latitudes. So, offhand, it seems that the megalithic structures were likely built during the Golden Age. You have opined that the Venus and Mars encounters occurred about when Velikovsky said (c. 3 millennia ago), but I don't see convincing evidence for that so far. Even if Venus and Mars were still around after Saturn left, Earth's electric field would likely have been greatly reduced when Saturn left, since Saturn's flares seem likely to have caused Earth's prior stronger field. So the ability to soften stone would have become more difficult after the Younger Dryas.

PS, I added SQUATTERMAN TRADITION to FROM ROCK ART TO MYTHS at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -tradition. And today I posted ANCIENT ELECTRICITY at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... lectricity and ELECTRIC EARTH, quoting Andrew Hall, at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -earth-8b8.

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nick c
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by nick c » Thu Mar 06, 2025 7:23 pm

Lloyd,

Using Occam's Razor, the tight fits can easily be explained without resorting to advanced industrial electrical processes. The Egyptians were able to carve the stones (probably with steel tools) to fine tolerances. I find it amusing that you would entertain electrodes being used by the Egyptians yet reject that they could have had steel. The electric technology has never been established for ancient times, yet steel use has, albeit not until well after the Pyramid Age. It seems to me to have a simpler explanation....the Old Kingdom had iron age technology, and if given that, the electrical technology is not needed to explain what is known.
The question is not whether the stones could have been processed using electrodes, but rather why not invoke a much simpler explanation - the Egyptians used steel, and the conventional chronology of steel development is wrong.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Mar 07, 2025 12:05 am

354618

Nick, it seems that megalithic structures were built before the first major known civilizations. I don't think steel was invented before those civilizations. Do you? But would the invention of steel tools mean stone blocks could then be fit together tightly? The polygonal blocks seem to be especially challenging for steel tools to accomplish tight fits. I'm not sold on the electrode theory, but, considering that Earth's electric field had to be supposedly over a million times stronger than today to produce plasma apparitions in the polar skies, which supposedly would have made it fairly simple to produce electricity, I think it has a pretty strong case. I won't be convinced until I see at least a demonstration of electrodes softening two squared stones to fit them tightly together. Have you seen any demonstrations of steel tools smoothing stone blocks perfectly enough to fit together with no gaps? I guess it could be done without steel tools, according to SACSAYHUAMAN - How They Did It | Polygonal Masonry at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5AplOCegMA. So maybe you're right. I found this video too: Fire & Quickly Working Granite on Egyptian Obelisks at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqP6KvfS9qE. The same author seems to believe in an Australian Atlantis. He had a video about "The remnants of the great civilisation remain. Australia" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag1E7hBpR1w. He filmed a very unusual rock formation that looks like man-made art, but I think it's probably natural.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Mar 07, 2025 12:07 am

354618

ANCIENT ELECTRODES OR WHAT?

Nick, it seems that megalithic structures were built before the first major known civilizations. I don't think steel was invented before those civilizations. Do you? But would the invention of steel tools mean stone blocks could then be fit together tightly? The polygonal blocks seem to be especially challenging for steel tools to accomplish tight fits. I'm not sold on the electrode theory, but, considering that Earth's electric field had to be supposedly over a million times stronger than today to produce plasma apparitions in the polar skies, which supposedly would have made it fairly simple to produce electricity, I think it has a pretty strong case. I won't be convinced until I see at least a demonstration of electrodes softening two squared stones to fit them tightly together. Have you seen any demonstrations of steel tools smoothing stone blocks perfectly enough to fit together with no gaps? I guess it could be done without steel tools, according to SACSAYHUAMAN - How They Did It | Polygonal Masonry at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5AplOCegMA. So maybe you're right. I found this video too by another author: Fire & Quickly Working Granite on Egyptian Obelisks at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqP6KvfS9qE. The same author seems to believe in an Australian Atlantis. He had a video about "The remnants of the great civilisation remain. Australia" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag1E7hBpR1w. He filmed a very unusual rock formation that looks like man-made art, but I think it's probably natural.

I'll have to rethink ancient megalithic structures. Looks like some of them weren't so ancient.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Mar 10, 2025 1:12 am

355152

PLASMA MATH ON SATURN THEORY

VM Blast has been working on plasma math for the Saturn Theory and it sounds plausible. He has a document on the EU board, which I had AI to translate under his post at viewtopic.php?p=11537#p11532. I commented on his document under that.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Mar 16, 2025 7:05 pm

356271

SWASTIKA/LAMAT: EV COCHRANE'S RECENT VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsx4jMsmYmU
{ZEUS-MARS-THUNDERGOD}
In The Case of the Turquoise Sun, we presented evidence that the prototypical Sun of cosmogonic myth was the focus of intense electrical discharges in the form of heaven-spanning lightning and storms. We know this to be the case because ancient words for ‘Sun’ in widely disparate languages also denote lightning, storm, Thundergod. Yet for one reason or another, comparative scholars have largely overlooked this evidence. Truth be told, the prototypical Sun god and Thundergod were one and the same celestial power, both tracing to a towering planet-based structure hovering in the northern circumpolar heavens. The Greek Zeus is the most familiar example of this archetypal celestial god, but analogous figures will be found around the globe.

{ANCIENT ART}
Ancient artworks complement the testimony from cosmogonic myth and linguistics. Early pictographs and cylinder seals depict a celestial body universally accepted as being the Sun with lightning-like structures emanating across its face. Now consider the old Anatolian cylinder seal wherein lightning-like spokes present a swastika-like form. The swastika in fact stands at the very nexus of the ancient imagery attached to the prototypical Sun god and Thundergod.

{SWASTIKA}
How then are we to understand the original celestial reference behind the swastika? The swastika constitutes one of humankind's most archaic and enduring symbols occurring on every inhabited continent. Swastikas appear in prehistoric contexts in Old Europe around 5,000 BC, Neolithic China, Harappan India, and in the New World as well. Heinrich Schliemann’s excavations of Troy found hundreds of artifacts with swastikas on them. In the 19th century, scholars investigating the symbol's origin interpreted it as an astronomical image encoding the whirling rotation of the Sun. At the same time however, other scholars called attention to its intimate connection with the Thundergod’s fiery thunderbolt. Thor's thunderbolt, for example, was depicted alternately as a swastika or as a wheel-like object on ancient monuments and rock carvings, some dating to the Bronze Age.

{ROTATION SIGN}
There are numerous instances where swastikas appear alongside so-called ‘solar wheels’. Witness the prehistoric ceramic artwork from Isousa?... wherein a swastika is placed immediately adjacent to a four-spoked Sun. It is as if the ancient artists were trying to convey the impression that the two symbols were inherently related, or variations upon a common theme. Miranda Green, in her standard work on Bronze Age Sun worship noted a fundamental affinity between the swastika and solar wheel, quote, “What does the swastika as a symbol represent? It is, I think, a complex image, and one with a close solar link. First and foremost, it would seem to represent rotary movement and, if in close association with the wheel, represents above all the rotating aspect of the Sun. While a true wheel has spokes and a nave to reflect the circular, beaming Sun, the swastika reflects the movement of the orb across the sky.” End of quote.

{WRONG SUN}
Green's analysis of ancient artworks is basically sound so far as it goes. There is an undeniable connection between the solar wheel and swastika, but it suffers from a seemingly fatal flaw, namely the readily observable fact that the present Sun does not display wheel-like spokes or a swastika form as it moves across the sky. Yet, as we documented in Turquoise Sun, the prototypical Sun was routinely depicted with wheel-like spokes, typically four in number, the latter of which occasionally take on the form of a swastika. A perusal of ancient artworks will reveal an inherent connection between the swastika and whirling forms, the latter often depicted in the center of the field of vision.

Indeed, numerous indigenous cultures identified the swastika as a whirling Sun, or as the whirling of the four winds linked to the four cardinal directions. A design from the prehistoric bowl from Samara offers an archaic example of this widespread thematic pattern from around 5,000 BC. Here the swastika is set in the center of the design. The circumambulating fish contribute to, and accentuate, this impression of whirling and naturally suggest a counterclockwise rotation. It is obvious at once, that the easiest way to produce such an image is by means of a stellar object at the circumpolar region, i.e., the very region associated with the polar configuration of planets reconstructed by Talbott and myself. In contrast, there is no conceivable way for the present Sun to present the appearance of a revolving swastika. At this point I would draw the reader’s attention to the four dots that appear in the figure above. How are these dots to be explained by reference to the familiar Sun?

{FOUR DOTS}
Significantly, four dots are also found together with the swastika in prehistoric artworks from around the globe. In his classic book on the symbol, Thomas Wilson wrote as follows. Quote, “The swastika is sometimes represented with dots or points in the corners of the intersections.” End of quote. The figure above offers a representative example. Here too it is impossible to explain this particular image by reference to the familiar solar orb where four dots are nowhere to be found. Yet, four dots are a regular feature in prehistoric exemplars of the so-called ‘Lamat’ sign, discussed by us in several publications. The Lamat sign is archaic in nature, appearing already in preclassic Meso-America. It was the presence of this glyph, together with the numbers 236, 90, 250, and 8 on pages 46 to 50 in the Dresden Codex that led Ernst Forstemann and other early scholars to propose a connection between the glyph and Venus.

Martha Macri emphasized a remarkable continuity of this image and its attendant symbolism across the millennia. Quote, “The Venus/star logograph is depicted on portable objects from the Preclassic, Classic and Postclassic periods into the sixteenth century. This continuity of an image that is graphically complex and semantically consistent is evidence not of the borrowing of a word or concept but of the transmission of a specific image over an extensive geographic and temporal range.” End of quote.

{LAMAT SIGN}
The conventional explanation of the Lamat sign is that it offers an abstract reference to the phases of Venus. Susan Milbrath, an anthropologist specializing in ancient Mesoamerican astronomy, suggested that the glyph has reference to the four phases of Venus's appearance and disappearance. Quote, “The fact that there are four circles in a cross-shaped frame naturally suggests the four phases of Venus associated with the four different directions.” End of quote. Yet, this explanation is disproved by the fact that analogous images are to be found around the globe often in a non-astronomical context where a sophisticated knowledge of the Venus cycle is difficult to imagine. So far as I'm aware, I'm the first scholar to call attention to Lamat-like forms outside of Meso-America. As a case in point, consider the Nutsee cylinder seal above. It too depicts a star surrounded by four dots. The resemblance between the Mesopotamian and Mesoamerican images is undeniable. Not only is there a centrally located four-rayed star, but four circles or dots are placed in the indices of the star, exactly as in the Lamat sign. Not unlike the longevity of Lamat glyph in Mesoamerican iconography, the quadripartite-starred symbol persisted for millennia in Mesopotamia. The symbolic importance of the stellar image is indicated by the fact that Babylonian Kings had it depicted on their royal garments. How then are we to understand the unique design of the Lamat glyph? I discuss the Lamat in The Many Faces of Venus and other works noting its possible relationship to the planet Venus.

{SYNCHROTRON RADIATION}
At the time I was operating under the assumption that the image depicted a conjunction of Mars and Venus in which the red planet was positioned in front of the larger orb, but I had no idea how to explain the four smaller dots or satellites around the central star. Upon discussing the matter with Anthony Peratt in 2002, he pointed out that the dots in question are telltale signs of synchrotron radiation. According to Peratt, the only known mechanism that produces synchrotron radiation are electrons spiraling about a magnetic field at nearly the speed of light. Indeed, in high energy discharge experiments conducted at Los Alamos labs in the 1990s, Peratt himself had produced very similar images.

In the image on the left, one finds a close analog to the classic Lamat sign in which a central star is surrounded by four small circles. In the other figure, one finds a rosette-formed image, not unlike that depicted in The Case of the Turquoise Sun, wherein we argued that the prototypical Sun presented the appearance of a four-petalled flower at the time of creation. How interesting then to find that the Lamat sign was occasionally placed on the four-petalled Sun glyph in Mesoamerican monumental text, evidently without changing the latter's meaning at all. I return to the symbolism attached to Lamat in The Great Star published in 2004, and once again reached out to Dr. Peratt for instruction and clarifying the various structures in question. In response he wrote me as follows. Quote, “Of course, the symbol is found all over the place...It is indeed Venus and Mars in front, but the quincunx is yet in front of Mars. See my Physica Scripta article {https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1 ... 014048/pdf} that purposely does not show everything yet. Too early and I'll have to find an alias to publish under.” End of quote.

{BEST EXPLANATION OF THE FOUR DOTS}
Alas, Tony has yet to elaborate further on his groundbreaking experimental findings, findings which help elucidate the astronomical imagery included in the ancient pictographs and hieroglyphs. One thing is certain, in the case of the Lamat sign, a pictograph is indeed worth a thousand words. Indeed, it is our claim that the stellar image in question represents a veritable smoking gun pointing to an extraordinary and catastrophic planetary conjunction in relatively recent prehistory, likely during the Neolithic period. That argument stands until someone can demonstrate how four dots can appear around a stellar image in the present sky apart from Peratt's intense synchrotron radiation.

{MAINSTREAM THEORY}
It is important to underscore the profound implications of these findings. The mere fact that the swastika and Lamat signs depict celestial objects that are nowhere to be found in today's sky points to the conclusion that the ancient skywatchers were witness to a radically different celestial landscape. The conventional position holds that the ancient artworks discussed here are abstract or non-representational in nature. Miranda Green for example, offered the following explanation of the various pictographs depicting the Sun. Quote, “Man did not simply look at the Sun and copy what he saw to the best of his ability. He went further and interpreted and superimposed new images of the Sun which were not based entirely on his visual perception.” End of quote.

The gods themselves (according to this position), are simply human constructs and have no reference point in the natural world. Jan Assmann, the recently deceased dean of Egyptologists emphasized the point. Quote, “The deities and their actions, to whose reality human activity responds, are a cultural construct.” End of quote. Richard Seaford, a world-renowned expert on Ancient Greek religion argued the point most forcefully. Quote, “Greek deities are human constructions.” End of quote.

{GODS WERE PLANETS}
We would reject this entire line of reasoning, a philosophical trend which has done much to impede our understanding of ancient religion, myth, art, and the recent history of the solar system. Ancient gods, such as Zeus, Thor, Inanna and Shamash, were real and corresponded to colossal awe-inspiring planet-based structures in the sky. The archaic artworks purporting to depict the stellar gods, such as the four-spoked wheel, swastika and Lamat forms discussed here are representational in nature and accurately depict the prototypical Sun participating in the polar configuration. An electrically charged Sun which bears absolutely no relationship to the present Sun. And that, my friends, is what the EU revolution is all about.

MY COMMENT
Ev said before that the squatterman and thunderbolt were the same signs seen from different angles. Lamat sign seems to be the same as the thunderbolt. Why the Lamat and swastika would show 4 dots, but the squatterman only 2 dots, isn't clear. So I tried to see if AI could possibly help clarify. I don't think it does, but I show the info below anyway, which might be of some use. Peratt paper/s had a plasma image of a torus around the middle of the plasma figure with a cup shape on the upper part of a stick and a bell or upsidedown cup on the lower part. Since the edges were brightest, only the edges were clearly visible and the upper cup sides looked like upraised arms, while the lower cup or bell edges resembled squatting legs. So the edges of the middle torus were the brightest parts of that and were drawn as dots or small circles on the sides of the squatterman. That might suggest that the dots in the swastika/lamat were the brighter parts of two toruses, but the relationship to the cross shape isn't clear. Ev has said that the cross was plasma streamers from Venus that possibly curved back toward Saturn. So, if the 4 dots were formed in a similar way as the 2 dots, then a plasma torus must have formed just above the crossbar and another just below it.

COPILOT AI PLASMA ADDENDUM
_Synchrotron radiation occurs when charged particles, like electrons, spiral at nearly the speed of light around magnetic field lines. This process emits electromagnetic radiation across a wide spectrum, often visible as glowing plasma structures. In high-energy environments, such as those hypothesized in ancient plasma discharge events, this radiation could create intricate visual patterns.
_Peratt's findings suggest that plasma instabilities in Earth's magnetosphere could have produced luminous phenomena visible to ancient skywatchers. These plasma discharges, shaped by electromagnetic forces, might have formed configurations resembling crosses, swastikas, or Lamat signs. The dots or small circles near these shapes could represent localized regions of intense synchrotron radiation, where electrons spiraled more densely, creating brighter spots.
_In essence, the interplay of magnetic fields and charged particles in a plasma environment could naturally generate these complex, symmetrical patterns, which were then immortalized in ancient art and mythology.

_Anthony Peratt's research into ancient rock art and plasma physics suggests that the "Squatterman" figure, often depicted with a dot on each side, was indeed a plasma apparition. This figure is thought to represent a high-energy plasma discharge event visible in Earth's atmosphere, which ancient people recorded in petroglyphs. The dots near the Squatterman figure could be interpreted as regions of intense synchrotron radiation, where charged particles spiraled in magnetic fields, producing localized bright spots.
_As for its relationship to the Lamat sign, cross, and swastika, these symbols share a common origin in plasma phenomena observed in the sky. They likely represent different stages or configurations of plasma instabilities during high-energy events. The Squatterman, with two dots, might depict a simpler or earlier phase of the plasma discharge, while the swastika and Lamat signs, with four dots, could represent more complex or evolved configurations.
_The difference in the number of dots could reflect variations in the plasma's structure or the observer's perspective. For example, the Squatterman might emphasize the vertical axis of the plasma column, while the swastika and Lamat signs could depict a more symmetrical, radial configuration. These variations highlight the dynamic and multifaceted nature of plasma phenomena, which ancient skywatchers immortalized in their art and mythology.

Lloyd
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Mar 19, 2025 12:22 am

356690

ROCK ART SKY SPIRITS

Sky Spirits A Search for Meaning in Ancient Rock Art Part 2
By bill petry (2017)
https://www.academia.edu/40989764
"The intense auroral column starts it’s life as an unassuming veil of pretty lights around our planet’s polar regions. As the current flow increases various plasma features begin to develop, culminating in spectacular columns of forceful light and incomprehensible apparitions dancing and battling across the skies and in our belief systems. These fantastic ‘beings’ lived in the sky for many centuries, times long ago forgotten, but not unrecorded."

I've seen several science articles on Rock Art on that site recently and this one seems to be more useful than most for Saturn Theory research. It seems to progress beyond Peratt's paper from c. 2003. Although this paper is 8 years old now, it's new to me, and I haven't read it yet, other than skimming a little. I should be able to find Part 1, if I look around a little. If the paper proves useful, I'll certainly try to share my findings here.

kmcook
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:20 am
Location: Northern Tasmania

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by kmcook » Wed Mar 19, 2025 1:32 am

>>Lloyd » Wed Mar 19, 2025 11:22 am ROCK ART SKY SPIRITS<<

Good find Lloyd... found Part 1 with a click or two.

K

Lloyd
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Mar 20, 2025 12:56 am

356884

Good, KM. I found now that Academia.edu has a lot of articles on Rock Art that mention Peratt. So there are probably a lot more, if I search on other related terms. I found the following by Google and Presearch searches on site:academia.edu "rock art", peratt. Google had way more results. I'm copying the article titles below, but it's too much trouble to add the links here. So you'll have to go to the link below to get the links to all these papers. I didn't realize so much research has been done on topics like this. This is in my Drafts Substack.

ACADEMIA.EDU, ROCK ART, PERATT
https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... art-peratt
Advanced Plasma Computations and Experiments
Anthony Peratt | Los Alamos National Laboratory - Academia.edu
(PDF) Antiquity of Iran's rock art: pre-History or Historic-Islamic time
(PDF) Ashes of Atlantis - part 1
Asiatic Echoes The Identification of Ancient Chinese Pictograms in pre-Columbian North American Rock Writing
Astromorphism and the Influence of Prehistoric Astronomy on the Origin of Religion
Astronomical Petroglyphs – Searching for Rock Art Evidence for an Ancient Super Aurora
Aurorae in Australian Aboriginal Traditions
Background To Historic and Prehistoric Resources of the East Mojave Desert Region
Birkeland Currents: A Force-Free Field-Aligned Model
Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity
Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity Part II: Directionality and Source
Comparative Mythology: the systematic comparison of mythic themes gathered from a wide variety of cultures and ideas
Cosmic Hillfort of the King The Yellow Hill (fort) as a Cosmic Hill or mountain motif and symbol of a King's authority
Current Research on the Rock Artat Gua Tambun, Perak, Malaysia
(PDF) FAQ: EPEMC MIMS
Geoglyphs Research Papers
A Geomagnetic Approach to Traditions of Axes Mundi; Part I
Geometry of an Intense Auroral Column As Recorded in Rock Art
MESS0035: A Guide to the EPEMC Trip Reports
independent.academia.edu/MarinusAnthonyVanderSluijs
Lightning Induced Remanent Magnetization at the Buffalo Slough Burial Mound Complex
Major Geological Fissure through Prehistoric Lion Monument at Giza Inspired Split Lion Hieroglyphs and Ancient Egypt's Creation Myth
Marinus Anthony Van der Sluijs
(PDF) Neo-Eneolithic Literacy: Key References
Neolithic rock art associated with intense auroral currents
61 Nights of Sacrifice -The Vratya Form of the Gavamayana Ceremony Volume 3 on the Vratya; Part 1
Origin of Europeans
(PDF) Perattian Thunderbolts and Megafauna Extinction
Petroglyphs in Your Pocket 2021
Plasma Petroglyphs (Plasmaglyphs), Earthworks, and the Megafauna Extinction
Plasmaglyphs Part 1
Plasmaglyphs Part 2
(PDF) Plasmaglyphs Part 3
Plate tectonic issues, the influence of electricity in rock forming processes
Pleistocene megafauna Research Papers
A prehistoric praying mantis petroglyph in Iran
(PDF) Ramon's AKHA Articles
Ten Reasons to Consider Switching to Extended Plasma-electromagnetic Cosmology
(PDF) review of L. Piccardi & W. B. Masse (eds.), Myth and Geology
(PDF) Revising Old Testament Chronology and Context
Rock Art Images - a global perspective.pdf
Rock Art in Madhya Pradesh
(PDF) Rock Art of Arizona
(PDF) Rock Art of the Owens Valley
(PDF) Rock Artof Maharashtra
Science and Catastrophism, from Velikovsky to the Present Day, Quantavolution Conference, Naxos, 2012
Searching for Rock Art Evidence for an Ancient Super Aurora
Semiotics and Meaning of Rock Art
The Semiotics of X: Chiasmus, Cognition and Extreme Body Memory
Shifu Careaga | University of Kentucky - Academia.edu
Sky Spirits A Search for Meaning in Ancient Rock Art Part 1
Sky Spirits A Search for Meaning in Ancient Rock Art Part 2
Strong Letter Response to Mr. Ben Davidson, Suspicious 0bservers, et al
Studies on the popular reception and misconceptions of contemporary theoretical physics
(PDF) SYMBOLS OF THE STILL FAMILIAR SKY
(PDF) Uchell, the High Lord, and Shang Di
Virtual Image Reconstruction of an Intense Z-Pinch Aurora at Earth's Southern Axis from Archaic Petroglyphs
When the Aurora Went Global; A Summary of 'On the Origin of Myths in Catastrophic Experience'
Younger DryasResearch Papers - Academia.edu

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