Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

[Lloyd]

319084

GODS, POLE STARS, HATS, THUNDERBOLTS

__LK: COMPARING ANCIENT GOD IMAGES
Ev, lately, since Dave initially found that the ancients likely saw the polar configuration as a standing angel form with upraised arms etc, I've been wondering if many of the humanoid forms of gods and goddesses were also based on the same polar column appearance etc. I copied about all of the humanoid images from your Turquoise Sun videos at https://lenkinder.substack.com/p/ec-images and organized them by similar themes or motifs. I.e. pole star, crescent, winged person, ball hat, hawk head, sit on lotus, bishop hat (looks like a chess bishop), ball in air, man throw trident at winged creature (Mars & Venus?), eye goddess, twin peaks, head gear. I thought it might be worthwhile listing the place & date for each image. I also listed common ancient rock art themes at the bottom. I thought of adding squatterman images, but that would probably need a separate post. I'm wondering if many rock art figures can convert into many of the Sumerian & Egyptian etc images, similar to the way you and Dave have sometimes shown with squatterman & concentric circles etc.
GODS' HATS
What ideas do you have about the various hats that the gods wore? I remember that Dave figured the "bishop hat" could have been the appearance of Mars and Venus in close conjunction with streamers, plasma, or dust between them. Do you think something in the polar column could have resembled a hawk head (Horus)? The hat types I noticed are beehive hat, "dunce hat", ball hat, bishop hat, pipe hat, pipe-bishop hat, comet hat, horn hat. Just wondering if you think this sort of arranging of ancient images may be productive, or if it's already been done.

__EC: ... In fact, the evidence presented by ancient crowns/headdresses is 100% stellar in origin and almost always totally ignored by scholars. I have written extensively on the Venus-headdress (half-star) in Mesoamerica and the concept is now fairly well accepted among serious scholars (note references to Venus headdress in the literature). But none of these clowns has any clue as to the origin of this imagery. Likewise, the crescent and/or ziggurat (Mars mountain) is ubiquitous in early Mesopotamian artworks. Dave did some absolutely brilliant work on this material but no one seems to have paid it much notice, other than you. Witness his groundbreaking analysis of the Egyptian white crown. Such imagery is virtually impossible to imagine apart from the polar configuration.

__LK: VENUS'S RAYS
Just now I started wondering what conditions would have been required for a light source, the pole star, to appear to have rays, to look like a 4, 8, or 16-pointed star etc. {Plasma gun?}

__LK: THUNDERBOLT. In your earlier video, Anatomy of a Thunderbolt at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkJdOuRDlAY you showed at 1'53" a thunderbolt in a circle over a crescent. I added the image to the top of my post at https://lenkinder.substack.com/p/ec-images and after the image I added images from a video about Gunung Padang. The image from your video has two tridents facing opposite directions connected together at the handle/s. There are 3 images of tridents from the Gunung Padang digs, each with a handle and only one trident. Do you think they were inspired from the double trident thunderbolt image? Gunung Padang is said to date to 26,000 years ago, I think, during the Ice Age, but I have good reason to believe it's from about 5,000 years ago. Your thunderbolt image seems to portray ancient Saturn or Venus or both. Right? Do you believe trident images, like that of the god Neptune, came from the early polar image? Do you think it appeared to the ancients that Mars was throwing the thunderbolt at Venus, a winged creature? Or did the later generations who didn't actually see the polar configuration make the mistake of supposing that Mars threw the thunderbolt at Venus? Was the thunderbolt part of the cross pattern on Venus? Or was it on Saturn?

__EV: You are right to focus on the thunderbolt image I provided. I first showed this about ten years ago at one of our conferences, arguing that it was central to explaining the archetypal identification of the prototypical sun and Thundergod, but no one paid it any notice. So far as I know, no one has ever even commented on this image or on how anomalous it is. My next video is on the swastika, which traces to the very same configuration. I proceed under the assumption that the thunderbolt is Mars inside of Venus set on the face of Saturn (Saturn would be the larger disk across which the thunderbolt streams). The much later Hindu trident certainly traces to this celestial prototype. I agree with you: There is no way the pyramids/imagery from Gunung trace to 25000 BCE. Likely to somewhere between 2000 and 100 BCE.

[Lloyd]

321036

DISCUSSION WITH EV COCHRANE

Ev only had a short answer for me this time, but that's okay, of course. I added the paragraph headings later.

GREAT FLOOD SMOKING GUN
__LK: Dwardu and Dave both seemed to accept that there was a Great Flood, but I think you said you don't think there was. Didn't you say that? I think one or both of them discussed a Great Flood in the Thoth online newsletter. However, I have found that there were apparently at least two Great Floods. The main (*smoking gun) evidence for a huge flood is that sedimentary rock strata were largely laid down horizontally with little or no erosion or bioturbation between strata. What erosion there was was largely sheet erosion from a great Flood. It's apparent that the continents were joined together in the supercontinent Pangaea at the outset of the Flood, but were separated rapidly late in the Flood by a large asteroid impact near the east coast of Africa, which pushed them apart so the continents slid over the Moho layer, which is frictionless plasma. Many meteors formed impact structures all around the globe during the Flood as strata were being deposited. The Moon or another large body apparently orbited Earth elliptically during the Flood with a very close perigee which caused tsunamis which flooded almost all of the land, because there were no mountains yet. Mountains formed during the breaking apart of the supercontinent. The Ice Age occurred after the Great Flood due to volcanism and impact debris etc. The Younger Dryas meteor impacts on the North American ice sheet caused a glacial meltwater flood about 700 years after the Great Flood. Sediments deposited in the Pleistocene and afterward were from that second flood. The dating of the Great Flood seems to be about 3,200 BC and the Younger Dryas flood about 2,500 BC. I think the oldest tree is about 4,700 years old, which would mean it started during the Ice Age. Many rivers, lakes etc date to about 5,000 years ago. Caves and rock fissures formed during the Great Flood and the later flood filled many of them with dead animals, as described by Velikovsky in Earth in Upheaval. I expect that the Saturn configuration existed during the Ice Age and ended a few centuries after the Younger Dryas impacts.
*Do you have any comments on the smoking gun evidence for the Great Flood, or other comments?
You said last time that you would date Gunung Padang to between 2,000 and 100 BCE. Would you like to say what you base that estimate on?

CELESTIAL FLOOD
__EC: I have never said that there was no flood, as flood myths are found around the globe. Rather, the question is what do these myths have reference to? Dave and I have always held that the Great Flood of ancient myth was celestial in nature and described the goings-on at Creation. To what extent those catastrophic events impacted Earth have always remained a matter of debate. I certainly would never accept that a universal flood affected the Earth after the fashion of Noah's ark. Dwardu collected some very compelling evidence for strange goings-on around the north pole and certainly that must be taken into consideration, but much of that had to do with dinosaurs and other archaic animals and thus would not trace to 3200 BCE. I defer to your expertise on the matter and continue to collect evidence.

DATING GREAT FLOOD, DINOSAURS ETC
__LK: I mentioned my view on potential dating of ancient cataclysms because I thought it might help our discussions. I know you had said you believed the Flood was celestial and I know you mentioned maybe a year ago on the forum that you accept conventional dating of the Earth etc. But I thought you should know of the main evidence for the Earthly Flood so that you may like to think about it in relation to mythology. I mentioned the lack of erosion and bioturbation between sedimentary rock strata. But I neglected to mention also that coal, diamonds and dinosaur bones date to under 50,000 years old by radiocarbon dating. Since the atmosphere was probably much thicker and possibly didn't contain much if any radiocarbon before the Flood, radiocarbon dating may not accurately date things before the Flood. So what's dated at 50 thousand years may be much younger.

HISTORY OF GEOLOGY { https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... of-geology }
I'm working on a post about the history of geology. Early geologists accepted the Biblical Flood, based on assumptions about the Bible. Then counter-theories came to prevail in the late 1800s, based on uniformitarian assumptions. Since then it's become obvious that the Earth has suffered severe cataclysms on several occasions in fairly recent times. Even conventional scientists date one of the most recent events to about 12,000 years ago. That dating is apparently based on assumptions about the source of radiocarbon being constant for many millennia. It's hard to avoid assumptions, but it's surely necessary to question them. I don't accept Biblical or uniformitarian assumptions, but the Bible is closer to the dating of the Younger Dryas than is the former mainstream.

TAURID METEOR STREAM & HALLOWEEN
I don't know much about Clube and Napier's work, but I assume Randall Carlson got some of his ideas from them. Randall has said that Halloween is celebrated in late October because that's when Earth crosses the Taurid meteor stream, which is the stream that Comet Encke is in, and objects from that stream thousands of years ago collided with Earth frequently, often killing people. So it was made a holy day in memory of loved ones who died during the meteor showers. The stream was seen to come from near the Pleiades in the constellation Taurus. My suspicion is that the Taurid meteor stream/s (and maybe all meteor streams) formed during major polar configuration events. I read your article on Martian Meteorites and that seems like a potential connection with the Taurid meteor stream. Since polar configuration events had a profound influence on humanity, causing widespread great fear and awe and greatly influenced the development of civilization, it seems reasonable to me that they must have had terrible catastrophic experiences on Earth, not just seeing things in the sky. There are large and small impact craters worldwide that are also suggestive.

MARS AS CREATOR
__LK: Recently I've understood you to say that Mars was the "Creator". Right? I think I've read most of your material, but I hadn't noticed you saying that previously. Did you say that in any of your Aeon papers or other papers? If so, which one/s? I think you said that, for a probably short time of maybe weeks or months before Creation, there was a period of darkness, I think involving comet Venus spewing dust over the polar configuration, then Mars appeared in glory as Venus formed a crown on Mars. Did Mars itself appear to be very bright? Or was it just the Venus crown encircling Mars that was so bright? I think from Velikovsky, Dave and especially Dwardu, I had the impression that the Creation event involved a Saturn flare-up or nova. But you seemed to say recently that Saturn was not primarily involved in the Creation event. The impression I got was that Saturn was just in the background. Would you like to clarify for me and us? Do you know of any rock art or other early images that seem to attempt to portray the Creation event?

{I plan to post soon from a video about more of Geoff's findings from his Land of Chem project, which he discussed in an interview on the Dedunking video channel.}

[Lloyd]

321209

MARS AS CREATOR

Ev replied already, so I'm repeating my question to him, followed by his reply.

__LK: Recently I've understood you to say that Mars was the "Creator". Right? I think I've read most of your material, but I hadn't noticed you saying that previously. Did you say that in any of your Aeon papers or other papers? If so, which one/s? I think you said that, for a probably short time of maybe weeks or months before Creation, there was a period of darkness, I think involving comet Venus spewing dust over the polar configuration, then Mars appeared in glory as Venus formed a crown on Mars. Did Mars itself appear to be very bright? Or was it just the Venus crown encircling Mars that was so bright? I think from Velikovsky, Dave and especially Dwardu, I had the impression that the Creation event involved a Saturn flare-up or nova. But you seemed to say recently that Saturn was not primarily involved in the Creation event. The impression I got was that Saturn was just in the background. Would you like to clarify for me and us? Do you know of any rock art or other early images that seem to attempt to portray the Creation event?

__EV: I can't tell you how much I appreciate your probing questions. Unlike virtually every one of the commenters on my videos, you actually seem to understand what I've been talking about these past 40 years or so. As I tried to argue in Turquoise Sun, the subject of creation myths around the globe is the "birth" and/or prototypical appearance of the sun. The prototypical "sun" was the planet Mars in conjunction with Venus (Venus was the Eye or Glory of the sun). As you note, and as all the myths relate, the birth of the sun occurred in the general context of a catastrophe-induced darkness that threatened to destroy the world. That darkness was the result of the primeval catastrophe associated with the rampaging Eye of Horus (Venus) as aided and abetted by Mars (basically a period of instability in which the two planets whirled out of control like a giant hurricane. Hence the repeated comparison of Venus to a whirling storm and Mars as a hurricane). If you are familiar with Hindu myth, this is the catastrophe described as Kali and Shiva dancing out of control to the point where they threaten to destroy the world. Dave's mistake, followed by Dwardu, was the assumption that the great catastrophe described the fall of Saturn and/or the polar configuration when, in fact, it describes the apocalyptic period prior to "Creation" and the appearance of the polar configuration (the stabilization of the polar configuration brings the period of instability to a close). The stabilization in question forms the subject of several chapters in Turquoise Sun, where I try to show that the appearance of the four columns stabilizes and upholds the newly created cosmos. Dave and Dwardu were both heavily influenced by Velikovsky's fascinating idea of a nova-like Saturn, an idea which has next to no evidence to support it. The primeval lightbringer of ancient cosmogonic myth is always a Martian hero as aided by a Venusian goddess: Horus, Indra, Zeus, etc. {Those 3 were Mars.} Hence the fundamental position of Zeus in my argument: His very name describes him as the lightbringer par excellence. He is at once the prototypical Thundergod and the prototypical sun-god. In my forthcoming book on Dionysus this thesis will be bolstered at great length. As I'm sure you know, the fundamental point of all mystery religions is to reenact or reexperience the sudden outburst of light associated with the prototypical sun, the latter embodied by such gods as Dionysus. Believe me, I understand that all of this sounds like sheer lunacy in advance of a proper foundation in evidence, but that's the general thesis.

[Lloyd]

321299

FROM STONE CIRCLES TO PYRAMIDS

JEFF'S RECENT INTERVIEW ON PYRAMIDS AS FACTORIES
I made a partial paraphrased transcript of Dan and Jeff's latest Land of Chem video yesterday, called ANCIENT PYRAMIDS AS FACTORIES, at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... griculture . I added it to my online book, ANCIENT MYTHS ARE EARTH HISTORY, at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history . In August I had made an Index of Jeff's Land of Chem videos at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... hs-channel .

AUGUST POST ON SEVERAL SIMILAR VIDEOS
In another post in August, called ANCIENTS WERE FAIRLY ADVANCED, I quoted or paraphrased several videos at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... y-advanced . These are the Contents: 1. STATIC ELECTRICITY FOR RELIGION; 2. ZAPPING TO RAISE CONSCIOUSNESS (from Andrew Hall's video); 3. SOFTEN STONE WITH ELECTRODES?; 4. ANCIENT CHEMICAL TECH: NATRON; 5. ANCIENT STRUCTURES WERE CHEMICAL FACTORIES; 6. HOW SOPHISTICATED WERE THE ANCIENTS?; 7. ORIGIN IN ATLANTIS?; 8. ANCIENT EGYPT INVASION THEORY. The 5th part covered Jeff's Land of Chem ideas. The 3rd part was interesting about how electricity may have been used to shape stone more easily, but I don't think it explained how the electricity could have been generated or proved that electricity could soften stone.

CONTENTS OF YESTERDAY'S POST
In yesterday's post I have these Contents: 1. THEORY OF PYRAMID CHEMICAL FACTORIES & ORIGIN OF THE THEORY; 2. EARLIER STONE CIRCLES AS CHEMICAL FACTORIES; 3. ORIGIN OF STONE CIRCLES; 4. NEOLITHIC LIGHTNING DRAGONS; 5. STONE MAGNETIZATION BY LIGHTNING; 6. LIGHTNING MARKS ON STONE CIRCLES; 7.PROGRESSION TO EGYPTIAN PYRAMIDS; 8. ELECTRIC UNIVERSE; 9. FROM FIRE WORSHIP TO CHEMICAL FACTORIES; 10. PYRAMIDS FOR METHANE & AMMONIA PRODUCTION; 11. AMUN & AMMONIA; 12. ADDENDUM; 13. HALLUCINOGENS IN ANCIENT RELIGION. I think Jeff did a good job showing how stone circles were used for making nitrates to improve food growing and how that evolved into making pyramids for making chemicals for food growing and related purposes. Part 9 showed that some of the pyramids likely were built on methane seeps, after oracles had likewise been built on such seeps where fire could be used for spirit communication. Part 11 shows an image of the god Amun, from which the word ammonia was apparently derived. Jeff's interpretation of Amun is a bit different from that of the Saturn theory. He thinks Amun was a god of fertility because ammonia was used for crop fertility. Part 12 shows his timeline, 8,500BC to the first dynasty. I provided links to some of my papers showing that the timeline was much shorter, c. 3,200BC to 2,500 BC.

Plenty of work ahead.

[Lloyd]

322431

PYRAMIDS, EAST & WEST

More discussion with Ev Cochrane (http://maverickscience.com)

__LK: It is claimed that in the eastern hemisphere pyramids were built from c. 2700 to 200 BC. In the western hemisphere pyramids were built from c. 300 BC to 1500 AD. In South America, the Caral-Supe civilization, located in present-day Peru, is believed to have developed around 3000–1800 BCE, making it one of the oldest known civilizations in the Americas. The Olmec civilization, recognized as one of the earliest complex societies in Mesoamerica, emerged around 1600–1400 BCE and is often considered the "mother culture" of later civilizations such as the Maya and Aztec. Do you think those dates are about right? Do you have any idea why North America was so late at building monuments to the gods? AI says the Caral-Supe of Peru actually built their first pyramid before that of Egypt.

Andrew Hall made a video this year I think about Jeff Drohn's video channel, Land of Chem. Jeff did a lot of study of the pyramids of Egpyt etc and found evidence that they were designed as chemical factories to improve crop yields. He said the Step Pyramid was the first one in Egypt and it was originally a mastaba but later modified as a pyramid. Have you seen any of his videos? They're at https://www.youtube.com/@thelandofchem .


__EC: I do tend to accept the conventional dates to the pyramids in question until proven otherwise. However, it would make no difference to me if the Olmec were dated to 2500 BCE like the Egyptians. I do not know what you mean by "AI says the Caral-Supe of Peru actually built their first pyramid before that of Egypt." Do you mean Artificial Intelligence? I'm not aware of any evidence supporting that claim, but it would not surprise me to find that some unknown civilization deep within the Amazonian rain forest goes back to that date, hitherto unknown. What is most important is that the ancient Olmec/Maya buried their kings within the pyramids and used the same epithets to describe them (mountain of the gods, etc.), thereby disproving Jeff's absurd hypothesis. Andy Hall's video arguing for Jeff and several other {alternative} explanations of ancient phenomena was an absolute embarrassment to the Thunderbolts channel.

[Lloyd]

323754

PLAN TO SAFEGUARD EU KNOWLEDGE

I discussed this with Ev Cochrane recently. He said he's interested in finding ways to do that. On the EU board they're discussing having a minisalon before long.
That may help proponents get organized. But I think we need to organize a group to correct mainstream errors and donate our findings to libraries worldwide, while also doing similarly online. I've been writing on the TB forum since 2007 and have always tried to have productive discussions. I started some Substacks in 2022 and have collected a lot of info on Cataclysmic Earth History at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substack.com/archive and some ebooks at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/i/14409942 ... ence-books and I've posted a lot of Charles Chandler's writings at https://electricastrophysics.substack.com/archive and in an ebook at the previous link.

I invite everyone here who's interested to join in organizing to improve knowledge. You can message me via my profile, or we can have discussion at this etherpad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/EUCoop-keep (I'll try to look in daily.)

I've found several other substacks that sometimes or often discuss EU or PC, and I plan to invite the authors to collaborate on preserving EU knowledge and correcting mainstream errors. Following are the ones I've found so far. Everyone is welcome to check them out and maybe contact the authors.

This has a number of posts on EU: Legacies Revealed (tregaryn@substack.com)
https://legaciesrevealed.substack.com/archive

A number of posts at: electrogenesis (robewarrior@substack.com)
https://electrogenesis.substack.com/archive

Several posts here too by a Christian: Eternal Perspectives (eternalperspectives@substack.com)
https://eternalperspectives.substack.com/archive

There's a post on EU here: Lies are Unbekoming (Unbekoming@substack.com)
https://unbekoming.substack.com/p/electricity

This substack had one post on EU in Sept, but hasn't posted since then: The Monotreme (Monotreme@substack.com)
https://monotreme.substack.com/p/electr ... y-is-space

This has at least one recent post: GreyLenz (cybertimesandmore)
https://cybertimesandmore.substack.com/p/chapter-two

At least one post here: Michael’s Newsletter (michaelclarage@substack.com)
https://michaelclarage.substack.com/p/i ... ve-remains

This has a 2 year old post: Uncensored (francesleader@substack.com)
https://francesleader.substack.com/p/we ... nd-prosper

This is 1 year old: John Dee's Climate Normal (jdee@substack.com)
https://jdeeclimate.substack.com/p/an-e ... rbital-edc

This recent post barely mentions EU: analogy (asaboxer@substack.com)
https://analogymagazine.substack.com/p/ ... he-journey

This post discusses PC (plasma cosmology): Ascension Health Newsletter (traviscarper888@substack.com)
https://traviscarper.substack.com/p/asa ... h-state-of

Another on PC: Unity (mycer@substack.com)
https://realityunity.substack.com/p/uni ... oundations

This post is on PC by a Minister: Wade Burleson (istoriaministries@substack.com)
https://wadeburleson.substack.com/p/where-is-jesus?

A post on PC by a spiritual org: Gestures of Synthesis (zedjames@substack.com)
https://zedjames.substack.com/p/gravity ... nectedness

A post on PC: No Fossils, Lots of Fuel (radiofarside@substack.com)
https://radiofarside.substack.com/p/no- ... ts-of-fuel

More on PC: shadedad@e.email’s Newsletter (zombiedad@substack.com)
https://wouldhebearitail.substack.com/p ... -how-it-is

Some PC over a year ago: Chronicles of Alkemix (alkemix@substack.com)
https://www.alkemix.art/p/tilting-towards-destiny

Some PC plus far-out ideas: Gregory Lessing Garrett’s Newsletter (gregorygarrett@substack.com)
https://gregorylessinggarrett.substack. ... eceptively

Some PC by alternatives proponent: GrubStreet in Exile (grubstreetinexile@substack.com)
https://grubstreetinexile.substack.com/ ... -will-than

[Lloyd]

324093

SATURN THEORY IN "MOST THOROUGH MODEL"

It took me a few days to copy all of Charles Chandler's posts from the thread, Most Thorough Model. I went through all of his discussions and gave each one a topic title, then I indexed the titles and organized them so it's easy to find any discussion topic. The Index is at https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... odel-index . There you can see this table of Contents:
CONTENTS
(1) GALAXIES ……………………………… (2) STAR FORMATION
(3) STAR CLUSTERS ………………….. (4) EXOTICS: RING STARS
(5) STARS ………………………………………. (6) THE SUN
(7) PLANETS ………………………………… (8) EARTH
(9) METEORS, COMETS, ASTEROIDS
(10) FORCES & MICROCOSM & SCIENCE
Section 7 on Planets has discussion of the Saturn Theory at https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... 52/planets

[Lloyd]

327360

ANCIENT GIANTS WERE PLANETS

Following is a copy of a Thoth article. My comment is at the end.

HALLOWEEN WITCHES AND GIANTS
https://saturniancosmology.org/othergro ... otii17.txt

{PAWNEE}
EV COCHRONE RESPONDS:
The belief that "there were giants in those days" is very widespread in nature. Consider the following tradition of the Pawnee Indians:
"The first men who lived on earth were very large Indians. They were giants; very big and very strong." (George Grinnell, Pawnee Hero Stories and Folk-Tales," 1961, p. 354).
According to Pawnee tradition, this race of giants was killed by the Flood.

{SOUTH AMERICA}
How are we to understand such traditions? In my opinion, the key is provided by the equally widespread tradition that in primeval times the planets used to live on earth. Here's a representative example of this theme from South America:
"In days long ago the sun and the moon and all their children lived on earth...In those days the sun and the moon and everyone were human beings and lived on this earth. Sun had a son who had sores all over his body; he was the morning star...He told his uncle to carry him on his shoulders because he could not walk; he was covered with sores and had to lie down all the time...One morning they finally arrived at his father's house...They greeted one another but then grabbed hold of one another as if to fight. Morning Star, growing larger than his father and brothers, won all the fights ... The next morning he bathed and turned into the handsomest man in the world."

{MARS}
Those familiar with my writings on Mars will recognize here several archetypal themes: The Morning Star as Mars; the hero with sores all over his body (Batraz); the lame hero (Samson); the hero who suddenly assumes a gargantuan form (Batraz, Maui, Indra, Cuchulainn); the ugly hero who suddenly becomes transformed into a beautiful being (Batraz, Odysseus). Each of these widespread themes has clear celestial precedents, all involving the planet Mars and its escapades in relation to the other planets participating in the polar configuration. It stands to reason that the theme of the giants likewise traces to celestial events, subsequently localized and "euhemerized", so to speak. Ev Cochrane

{CELESTIAL POWERS}
DAVE TALBOTT RESPONDS:
It is my contention that the different "giant" themes can be traced backwards, and the path will always lead you to ancient images of CELESTIAL powers. The fabled age of giants will echo all of the images linked to the age of the gods. The remote land of the giants will be a faint recollection of the land of the gods. Huge edifices claimed to have been built by giants will have their earlier counterpart in the COSMIC temples, cities and kingdoms built by the gods. Wars of the giants will be seen as diluted versions of the wars of the gods, or Clash of the Titans.

{MEGALITHS, MANMADE & NATURAL}
Internal consistency is one of the crucial tests of a theory, and any suggestion that the "age of giants" could refer to a period of unusually large human beings must be subject to the consistency test. It is certainly true that around the world, folk traditions associated various cultural remains with the activity of giants. They marveled at pyramids and towers and broken walls of former peoples. Popular Arabic tradition identifies "giants" as the builders of Middle Eastern megaliths. The Greeks proclaimed that a generation of giants had built the great fortifications at Tiryns and Mycenae. Scattered megaliths across Europe invited the same idea. Throughout Mesoamerica and South America it was claimed that the massive remains of earlier cultures had been constructed by giants. Similar ideas will be found in the South Pacific. Well, it is certainly true that if earlier generations were big enough, then building some of the larger monuments might have been easier. But if this explanation is entertained, should we not apply it also to those remarkably similar instances in which NATURAL features - mountains, gullies, ridges, canyons, and rivers were identified with the former activity of giants? In northern Ireland there is the famous CLOCHAN AN AIFIR, the "Giant's Causeway". It is constituted by huge hexagonal, basaltic columns, formed from the cooling of lava, and reaching as high as 200 feet or so. Native tradition claimed that these were built by a race of giants as a means of crossing the Irish Sea. In fact this kind of motif is quite common and was attached to the natural formation called the "Bridge of the Gods" on the Columbia River not all that far from here. So there was not just one natural "bridge" claimed to have been built by giants or gods.

{GREEK}
A good place to start in an exploration of the "giant" theme would be Greek myth, because it stands in an ambiguous zone between the more archaic world, in which the gods are celestial powers, and a later world in which the gods have been brought down to earth and localized as "great men". The Greek Gigantes are sons of the earth goddess Gaia. When the god Ouranos is "castrated" by his son and alter ego Kronos, the planet Saturn, it is from his blood that the Gigantes arise. They are not just "large" human-like creatures. They are towering forms capable of shaking heaven and earth. This birth of the Gigantes is virtually synchronous with birth of the goddess Aphrodite from the "foam" of the severed members of Ouranos. Aphrodite is, of course, the planet Venus. In Greek literature the Gigantes are directly involved in battles with the gods. Often they were depicted with serpent-tails. Their weapons were "mountains" (in truth, the world mountain itself). And yet, though numerous gods were drawn into the fray, and the earth reeled under the crashing of weaponry, it is fascinating to note that it was a so-called "mortal" warrior-hero, Heracles, who slew the two leaders of the revolt. But Heracles is, as we have seen, the echo of an explicitly cosmic figure in the earlier traditions.

{CATACLYSM}
Indeed, the war with the giants is essentially an extension of the Clash of the Titans. The Greeks regarded the Titans as "ancestors" of humanity. Their prevalence was synchronous with the remarkable epoch of Kronos, the planet Saturn. Kronos himself was the chief of the Titans, all of whom were sons of Ouranos, as were the Gigantes. At the close of the Golden Age of Kronos, the Titans fell into discord and fought with the gods of Olympos. "...And the infinite great sea moaned terribly and the earth crashed aloud, and the wide sky resounded as it was shaken, and tall Olympos rocked on its bases.... Now Zeus no longer held in his strength, but here his heart filled deep with fury, and now he showed his violence entire and indiscriminately... Out of the sky and off Olympos he moved flashing his fires incessantly, and the thunderbolts ... while the flames went up to the bright sky unquenchably, and the blaze and the glare of the thunder and lightning blinded the eyes of the Titan gods, for all they were mighty. The wonderful conflagration crushed Chaos, and to the eyes' seeing and ears' hearing the clamor of it, it absolutely would have seemed as if Earth and the wide heaven above her had collided, for such would have been the crash arising as Earth wrecked and the sky came piling down on top of her, so vast was the crash heard as the gods collided in battle." Dave Talbott

PYRAMIDS
Ev Cochrane recently opined that Jeff Drohn's idea that the pyramids were built as chemical factories is absurd. I don't know if Ev knows that Jeff doesn't regard pyramid tech as advanced compared to modern tech. Some pyramids have apparently held remains of possibly former rulers. But it seems plausible to me that ancient peoples would have had better reasons to build huge structures than just to be tombs for rulers, or just religious structures. It looks like most pyramids are under 200 feet high. This link has pics of pyramids around the world: https://thebrainchamber.com/pyramids-around-the-world/.

Perplexity.ai says:
The total number of pyramids worldwide is estimated to be over 500, with new discoveries still being made. However, the average volume of each pyramid is not provided in the search results.
Countries with Ancient Pyramids
Ancient pyramids have been discovered in the following countries:
Egypt (approximately 138 pyramids)
Sudan (around 255 pyramids)
Mexico (over 100 pyramids)
Peru (30+ pyramids)
Guatemala
Belize
Honduras
El Salvador
China (38 pyramids)
Nigeria (10 Nsude pyramids)
Cambodia
Italy (Rome)
Total Number of Pyramids Worldwide
The exact number of pyramids worldwide is difficult to determine due to ongoing discoveries and varying definitions of what constitutes a pyramid. However, based on the available information:
There are more than 500 confirmed pyramids worldwide2.
Some estimates suggest there could be around 1000 pyramids in Mesoamerica alone, including Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, and El Salvador5.
Sudan is reported to have the highest number of pyramids of any country, with an estimated 255 pyramids6,9.
It's important to note that these numbers may change as new archaeological discoveries are made and as definitions of pyramids evolve.
1. https://historicaleve.com/were-there-re ... -of-egypt/
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... n_pyramids
4. http://artisticlicenseorwhyitrustnoone. ... -to_6.html
5. https://www.britannica.com/story/were-a ... n-pyramids
6. https://oxfordre.com/classics/display/1 ... 135-e-8664
7. https://www.thecollector.com/who-was-bu ... st-famous/
8. https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/ ... se-kingdom
9. https://www.skyscanner.co.in/news/tips/ ... -the-world

GIANTS
I reckon giants in ancient myths did refer to the planets, but it's still possible that there were giant humans, just as there were giant versions of other animals.

Perplexity.ai says:
Ancient times saw many animals with giant versions of their modern counterparts. Here's a list of animals that had giant prehistoric relatives:
Sharks: Megalodon, reaching up to 60 feet (18 meters) in length7.
Sloths: Megalonyx jeffersonii, growing up to 9.8 feet (3 m) long and weighing up to 2,205 lbs (1,000 kg)7.
Snakes: Titanoboa, the largest snake of all time5.
Crocodiles: Sarcosuchus, Deinosuchus, and Purussaurus, each reaching about 40 feet (12.5m) in length1.
Lizards: Megalania (Varanus priscus), reaching about 23 feet in length1.
Arthropods: Jaekelopterus rhenaniae, a giant sea scorpion measuring 8.6 feet (2.7m) in length1.
Millipedes: Arthropleura armata, reaching 8 feet (2.5m) in length1.
Dragonflies: Meganeura, with a wingspan of about 2.5 feet (80cm)1.
Trilobites: Isotelus rex, over 2 feet (71.1cm) in length1.
Rhinos: Elasmotherium, reaching up to 5–5.2 m (16–17 ft) long2.
Camels: Titanotylopus, possibly reaching 2,485.6 kg (5,480 lb) and a shoulder height of over 3.4 m (11 ft)2.
Tapirs: Tapirus augustus, weighing about 623 kg (1,373 lb)2.
Horses: Prehistoric horses much larger than modern ones2.
Pigs: Kubanochoerus gigas, weighing up to 500 kg (1,100 lb)2.
Giraffes: Sivatherium, with a body weight of 1,250 kg (2,760 lb)2.
Turtles: Megalochelys atlas, weighing about 1,000 kg (2,200 lb)6.
Penguins: Giant prehistoric penguins7.
Otters: Giant prehistoric otters7.
Bears: Short-faced bears7.
Cheetahs: Giant prehistoric cheetahs7.
This list showcases the diverse range of animals that had giant ancestors or relatives in prehistoric times, spanning various ecosystems and time periods.
1. https://www.fossilera.com/pages/the-lar ... ic-animals
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_p ... ic_animals
3. https://www.discoverwildlife.com/dinosa ... ic-animals
4. https://owlcation.com/stem/10-Insane-Pr ... al-Animals
5. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180982010/
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megafauna
7. https://www.livescience.com/62047-photo ... imals.html
8. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... B16BAgGEAI

[Lloyd]

328374

UPDATE

See my Substack post, ANCIENT GIANTS WERE PLANETS, at
https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... re-planets
(which has additional material added to material from the post above)
and https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history (my free online book).

[Lloyd]

328680

FACE OF MARS GOD

https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... /153338649
That's another substack post.
CONTENTS:
SUMMARY OF JANUS MYTHS
SUMMARY OF MYTHS OF TWO-FACED GODS
LIST OF MYTHS OF TWO-FACED GODS
SCARFACE = MARS CANYON: CATASTROPHISM.COM
ALL CHARACTERS WITH FACIAL MARKS OR SCARS
MARS MOVING TOWARD EARTH

PLANET WITH FACIAL FEATURES
I was watching one of Ev Cochrane's videos about the face of Mars (I have a list of this site's myth videos at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ogy-videos ) and I thought about the 2-faced god, Janus, and figured it was probably the planet Mars, instead of Saturn, as I think Dwardu Cardona had concluded. The reason is that Mars was probably the only planet that had features that could be made out from Earth. The canyon and volcanoes may be the most obvious features, although the Hellas basin etc probably stand out too. I noticed that there's a problem with the Saturn Theory though. Namely, only the southern hemisphere of Mars centered on its south pole should have been visible from Earth, and only one of the big volcanoes is below the Mars equator. The canyon is some 13 degrees below the equator. They would be much better visible from a higher angle.

SATURN/JANUS?
Saturn could also be Janus, because the bright crescent shape rotated around it each day, so the brighter nighttime crescent could have been seen as one face and the dimmer daytime crescent could have been the other. However, myths about Janus seem to match Mars better than Saturn, as I showed in my post.

HOW SATURN SYSTEM JOINED SOLAR SYSTEM
I'm trying to imagine how the facts we have about the polar configuration planets and the present solar system could make a coherent evolving model. The axes of Saturn, Neptune, Earth and Mars are tilted close to the same c. 23-26 degrees or so. I think Jupiter, Mercury & Venus are close to the Sun's 0 degree vertical. Uranus is way off. Logically, it seems that Saturn & Co. (plus Venus?) would have been coming into the Sun's equatorial plane from 20-some degrees below. So how could they get diverted into the plane and maintain their tilts? I guess gyroscopic forces would keep the tilts. But then how would the Saturn train have gotten diverted still, if all 4 or 5 were following each other in polar alignment, each directly above the pole of the next? Would they have had to encounter Jupiter at just the right distance and angle to get diverted, like the SL9 comet did in 1992? Would a planet that collided and became the inner asteroid belt have been involved in the diversion?

SATURN/JUPITER DIVERSION
I asked Perplexity.ai: If Jupiter were in the Sun's equatorial plane and a Saturn-size planet came close to Jupiter at a 25 degree angle from below the equatorial plane, at what distance from and latitude of Jupiter would divert the Saturn-size planet into the Sun's equatorial plane, while maintaining its 25 degree axis tilt? Don't show me the calculations. Just show a one sentence answer.
Answer
A Saturn-sized planet approaching Jupiter at a 25-degree angle from below the Sun's equatorial plane would be diverted into that plane when it comes within approximately 2 million kilometers of Jupiter, at a latitude of around 15 degrees south on Jupiter.

EM FORCES TOO
I can't trust AI's calculations, but they're often right, so maybe that's correct. Sounds plausible offhand. And that would be taking just gravity into account. Maybe electrical forces would make it work even better, like Wal Thornhill previously explained regarding Venus' orbit circularizing.

If I'd ask AI how a train of planets could get diverted like Saturn, it would probably go bananas as its mind couldn't handle such a preposterous idea of a train of planets.

[Lloyd]

329137

PYRAMID ANSWERS

The History For Granite Youtube channel seems pretty good.

This video: Closing the Biggest Mystery of the Great Pyramid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItAQSrlG9WQ
says:
The King's Chamber was for the pharaoh's body temporarily (explained below).
The Queen's Chamber was for worshippers.
The portcullises were for opening and closing entrances.
The pyramids were built large to impress and attract worshipers.

The Emptiness of Pyramid Sarcophages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxZcaKszVuU
Plain Sarcophages were only temporary burial places.

This contradicts Jeff Drohn's claims at least somewhat, but maybe there's still something to his claims too.

[Lloyd]

330140

3 SUBSTACK POSTS

My latest Substack additions are:
1. PYRAMIDS VIDEO CHANNEL: History For Granite Videos INDEX at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... eo-channel
2. ANCIENT EGYPT CHRONOLOGY: C14 Dating & Other Dating Methods at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... chronology
CONTENTS: CHARLES KOS VIDEO; HISTORY FOR GRANITE VIDEO; WORLD OF ANTIQUITY VIDEO; REDUCE EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY BY 250 YEARS
3. (Ancient) CIVILIZATIONS COPIED THE GODS at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... d-the-gods
CONTENTS: EARLY CIVILIZATIONS REVERED THE PAST; RE-ENACTMENT CEREMONIES; THE GODS INSPIRED HUMANS TO BATTLE; FOREIGN ARMIES = CHAOS HORDES; ANCIENT TIMELINE

Here's a comparison of my ancient Timeline and what I think is approximately Ev's Timeline. (He doesn't accept the Flood as historical, so I leave the Flood out of this comparison.)
E1. ICE AGE ——————————————— 9,000 BC (end)
L1. ICE AGE ————— 3,000-2,500BC (high latitudes)
E2. GOLDEN AGE ———————————— 6,000-4,000BC
L2. GOLDEN AGE —— 3,000-2,500BC (low latitudes)
E3. CHAOS/DARKNESS/ DOOMSDAY ——— 4,000BC
L3. ... DOOMSDAY —— 2,500BC
E4. MARS & VENUS RECESSION ————— 4,000-3000BC?
L4. ... RECESSION —— 2,400-2,300BC
E5. END OF SATURN CONFIGURATION — (3,000BC?)
L5. ... BREAKUP ——— 2,300BC
E6. DAWN OF CIVILIZATION —————— 2,600BC?
L6. … CIVILIZATION — 2,300-2,100BC (/Peter James?)

[Lloyd]

331671

CREATIONIST VIDEOS INDEX

https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... in-genesis
CONTENTS
SCIENCE TOPICS (ANSWERS IN GENESIS)
SPEAKERS WITH TOPICS UNCERTAIN
IS GENESIS HISTORY (SCIENCE TOPICS)
CREATION MININSTRIES (SCIENCE TOPICS)
MIDWEST CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP (SCIENCE TOPICS)
STANDING FOR TRUTH (SCIENCE TOPICS)

I just updated that post on Substack. Creationist literature is listed in my bibliography of sources & related info at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/cataclys ... ient-myths . I grew up with religion, but I always had my own ideas about it. In college I was an atheist for a year, then switched to skepticism. That's when I first read Velikovsky's books, Worlds in Collision etc., i.e. 1969. I followed Pensee', Kronos, Aeon, Thoth etc after that. The first Creationist book I read was probably In the Minds of Men, by Ian Taylor. It was published in 1984, so I probably read it a few years later on interlibrary loan. The main things I got from it is that sedimentary rock strata must have been deposited all at once, because there is very little erosion between strata. To have so little erosion for millions of years is pretty preposterous if there was precipitation. Just a year or two ago I saw a few Creationist videos by Kurt Wise, who pointed out that another strike against deep-time geology is the lack of bioturbation between most sedimentary rock strata. That means there should be lots of burrows, roots etc in the top of each layer. And an insight I gleaned myself several years ago is that, if rock layers formed over millions of years, the rock should be all mixed up instead of separated into mostly sandstone, mudstone and limestone, because each of those things should have been eroding & depositing all the time, instead of just sand depositing for thousands or more years followed by just mud for thousands or more years followed by limestone, etc.

Besides Kurt Wise, other good Creationist Earth Scientists are, IMO, Michael Oard, Steve Austin, Andrew Snelling & John Baumgartner. Michael Oard explained the Ice Age very well. He & Steve Austin may have differing views on how the Grand Canyon eroded, but both have impressive info. Creationists are even better at explaining the flaws in conventional dating methods than are Saturnists and other Catastrophists. And they are allies with respect to catastrophism. Mike Fischer is sort of a Creationist, but he doesn't think the Earth is young. I think he accepts that the surface of the Earth is young, because of cataclysms. His site is https://NewGeology.us .

[Lloyd]

331907

This must be a Christmas present.

THOTH MYTH ARTICLES TABLES OF CONTENTS

In this online book:
CATACLYSMIC HISTORY SOURCES & BIBLIOGRAPHY
https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/cataclys ... ient-myths
I added tables of contents to each of the 3 Thoth Mythology Articles sections. The links to the 3 sections are given below and the contents (i.e. myth article titles) of each section are shown here.

MYTHOLOGY ARTICLES: THOTH 1:1 - 2:16
https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... oth-11-216
SATURN THEORY OVERVIEW — THE MYTH OF THE GOLDEN AGE — THE MYTH OF THE UNIVERSAL MONARCH — SATURN: THE ANCIENT SUN GOD — THE MYTH OF THE CENTRAL SUN — VELIKOVSKY AND PLANETARY CATASTROPHE — VELIKOVSKY'S COMET VENUS — MORE THAN ONE TYPHON — A BRIEF ORIENTATION — NOTES ON THE COMPARATIVE METHOD — VENUS AS THE DOVE — GROUNDRULES — RESPONDING TO A CRITIC — VENUS AND VELIKOVSKY — HEROES OF THE ILIAD — THE TWO FACES OF "PLAUSABILITY" — COMPARATIVE METHOD

MYTHOLOGY ARTICLES: THOTH 2:17 - 4:13
https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... th-217-413
ON STABLE AND UNSTABLE WORLDS — THE WARRING GODDESS ATHENA — VISUALIZING COLLINEAR SYSTEMS — THE "TERRIFYING GLORY" OF VENUS — MERCURY IN MYTHOLOGY — MARS ROCKS — POLAR CONFIGURATION DISCUSSION — SATURN CONFIGURATION DISCUSSION — SATURNIAN STUDIES — SATURN AND VENUS — COSMIC SYMBOLS — ASTROBIOLOGY — THE MYTHIC ROOTS OF LANGUAGE — DEMANDS OF SATURN CONFIGURATION THEORY — CONJUNCTION THEMES — THE NATURAL REFERENCES OF MYTH — WORLD MOUNTAIN — PATTERNS OF HUMAN MEMORY — PLANETARY UPHEAVAL — RECONSTRUCTING THE SATURN MODEL — THUNDERBOLTS OF THE GODS — FORTRESS AND LABYRINTH — LABYRYNTHS — MALE GODS — A UNIFIED THEORY — CARNIVAL

MYTHOLOGY ARTICLES: THOTH 4:14 - 7:7
https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... oth-414-77
SATURN'S REVOLVING CRESCENT — ONE STORY — HUMAN NATURE AND SATURNIAN RITUAL — WHITE CROWN — RENS' OUTLINE — THE THUNDERBOLT IN MYTH AND SYMBOL — THUNDERGODS AND CELESTIAL MARVELS — POLAR CONFIGURATION AND COSMIC THUNDERBOLT — THE CAPTURE QUESTION AGAIN — LIGHTNING DOGS — MANY FACES OF VENUS — SERPENTS OF CREATION — BIRTH OF VENUS — MYTH

THIS LINK SHOWS EVERYTHING IN 1 POST: https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... h-articles and each title in the tables of contents is clickable.

[Lloyd]

334830

EGYPT, DOGON & SIRIUS ERRORS

I just finished a post on that at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ius-errors and added it to my online book at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history . Here's the tale of Contents.
OLD KINGDOM TEXTS
SOPDET ONLY IN PYRAMID TEXTS
TERM SOPDET NOT USED FOR 1800 YEARS
SOPDET RETURNED WITH NEW HIEROGLYPHS
SOPDET’S EVOLVING IMAGE
HELIACAL RISING OF SIRIUS
HEAVENLY FLOOD, NOT NILE FLOOD
WHEN THE NILE FLOODED
MY CONCLUSION ABOUT SIRIUS & ANCIENT EGYPT
ONLINE INFO ON DOGONS
MY COMMENT ON DOGON MYTHOLOGY

I quoted from Ev Cochrane's 1994 Aeon article to explain why the initial meaning of the Flood in Egyptian myth was a heavenly flood, not the Nile flood. Below are my comments on the Sirius beliefs of the Egyptians and the Dogon tribe.

MY CONCLUSION ABOUT SIRIUS & ANCIENT EGYPT
From all of the above, it appears that Egypt likely did not base its calendar on the heliacal rising of the star Sirius. During the Old Kingdom, Sopdet indicated Venus and Venus was associated with a Flood in the sky, which may have been connected to a major Flood on Earth in a prior time. It’s possible that the later Egyptians began to worship or honor Sirius each summer, because the people eventually forgot the source of the original myth and supposed that it referred to the first appearance of Sirius each summer. Sirius & Venus both appear as bright stars. Venus is usually a bit brighter. I haven’t read any direct evidence yet that Egypt’s calendar was based on the appearance of Sirius though. It doesn’t seem to make sense that they would allow their calendar to change important dates every 4 years and taking 1,641 years for the dates to return to where they were. Scientists refer to that as the Sothic cycle, which seems to be mostly their imagination, although it’s understandable why they would make that conclusion, since they don’t know the real source of most ancient myths. The hieroglyphs for Sopdet in the Old Kingdom were not the same as those in Ptolemaic times 1,800 years later. So the mainstream is likely wrong again.

MY COMMENT ON DOGON MYTHOLOGY
VENUS, NOT SIRIUS. The Dogon tribe is credited with advanced knowledge of the Sirius star system and of Jupiter and Saturn. But notice that the Dogon use the same word for Sirius that they use for Venus, Sigi Tolo. Since they think their ancestors came from Sigi Tolo and from Mars, Sigi Tolo surely means Venus, not Sirius, as Venus and Mars were thought by most ancient peoples to be the progenitors of the human race, because they were the active planets in the ancient Polar Configuration, close to Earth.
MERCURY, NOT SIRIUS B. The Dogon supposedly claim that Po Tolo orbits Sigi Tolo, which mainstream anthropologists interpret as the stars Sirius B and Sirius A respectively. The Dogon describe Po Tolo as small and dense. Astronomers say Sirius B is a small, dense white dwarf star, but Pierre Robitaille explains that white dwarfs are not small and dense, but are normal stars whose lattice structure has changed so that much less light gets through, making them appear dim. See electricastrophysics.substack.com/p/liquid-metallic-hydrogen-stars. I suspect that the Dogon really meant the planet Mercury by Po Tolo, because it’s small and it orbits the Sun within Venus’ orbit, although in 88 days instead of 50 years. Sirius A & B orbit each other in 50 years, but the Dogon follow a 60 year cycle, so that’s not a match.
JUPITER & POLAR CONFIGURATION. If the Dogon really knew that Jupiter has 4 large moons, that may be evidence that Jupiter was part of the Polar Configuration at some point. They’re also said to have known that Saturn has rings. So that’s also evidence of remembering the Polar Configuration. They’re said to refer to Jupiter as a trickster, but that was really Mars’ role, but in the Polar Configuration it was likely easy to get one planet confused with another. For example, the later ancient Greeks thought Zeus was Jupiter, but Ev Cochrane has shown that Zeus was actually Mars, so the Dogon apparently made a similar mistake.

CATASTROPHISM NEWS 2019-2024

At https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substack.com/archive I also re-organized a lot of catastrophism news articles I've accumulated on the Resources Board for the past several years. I still have 2016-2018 to do yet, but it may take a while.