Thunderbolts Forum v3.0

Dr. Don Scott elaborated on that diagram (Fig 18) for the first 26 minutes of this EU presentation.

Donald Scott: Cosmic Power Lines Part 2 | EU2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPNMoalTTVE
channel: ThunderboltsProject
dur 50:25

He discusses at length the sun's position within the Birkeland current, and specifically what is meant by the double layers at the poles of the sun.

Earlier in the thread someone made a sarcastic zinger about the lack of imagination regarding the circuitry of the sun, suggesting that just about anything was possible. This EU presentation makes clear that the circuitry of the Electric Sun is informed by what we observe in all of these bipolar planetary nebula:

[list]Figure 28. Stellar Bennett Pinches, Visible in Hourglass Nebulae
https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/image09/090325nebula.jpg
These nebular formations are variations on "the ubiquitous 'hourglass' or 'butterfly' shaped glow-discharge structure. Sometimes this funnel-shaped formation is seen as a ring or offset oval rings when viewed 'up the barrel'."
[/list]
In other words, these planetary nebula are visible z-pinches, very similar to what the sun is situated in. In M2-9, even the double layers at the star's poles are visible.

(See also Fig 6, 7, 8 & 9, pg 2)

by jacmac » Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:37 am:
[i][list]Figure 18
https://www.holoscience.com/wp/wp-conte ... onment.jpg
The circuit supplying DC electrical power to the Sun. The solar cycle is controlled by variability in its local galactic Z-pinch.[/list]
If this is the figure 18 you refer to,
I have never understood that figure.
[/i]


The sun's circuit, as developed by the Electric Universe and following the Hannes Alfven model, closes some great distance above the poles of the sun, as shown in fig 18 pg 5, and fig 21 pg 6.

Fig. 21 pg 6 shows Alfven's heliospheric circuit.

[list]Figure 21. [b]Alfvén’s Heliospheric Circuit.[/b]
https://www.holoscience.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Alfvens-heliospheric-circuit.jpg
"The Sun acts as a unipolar inductor (A) producing a current which goes outward along both the axes (B2) and inward in the equatorial plane along the magnetic field lines (B1). The current must close at large distances (B3), either as a homogeneous current layer, or — more likely — as a pinched current. Analogous to the auroral circuit, there may be double layers (DLs) which should be located symmetrically on the Sun’s axes. Such double layers have not yet been discovered. Credit: Original diagram by H. Alfvén, NASA Conference Publication 2469, 1986, p. 27."
[/list]
If you have a look at that, you will see some of the fundamental plasma structures which are also shown in Fig. 18.

Both diagrams reflect the same elements of an astrophysical plasma circuit.

1. There is a Birkeland current at the poles, and also, within which, the sun and its heliosheath are embedded. The Birkeland current local to the sun is in evidence in the following ESA report:
[list]“The filaments are huge, stretching for tens of light years through space and Herschel has shown that newly-born stars are often found in the densest parts of them… Such filaments in interstellar clouds have been glimpsed before by other infrared satellites, but they have never been seen clearly enough to have their widths measured. Now, Herschel has shown that, regardless of the length or density of a filament, the width is always roughly the same. “This is a very big surprise,” says Doris Arzoumanian, Laboratoire AIM Paris-Saclay, CEA/IRFU, the lead author on the paper describing this work. Together with Philippe André from the same institute and other colleagues, she analysed 90 filaments and found they were all about 0.3 light years across, or about 20,000 times the distance of Earth from the Sun."
[/list]
2. There are double layers at the north and south poles of the sun, which are in evidence in the New Scientist report here:
[list]"Between May 2009 and May 2010, IceCube detected 32 billion cosmic-ray muons, with a median energy of about 20 teraelectronvolts (TeV). These muons revealed, with extremely high statistical significance, a southern sky with some regions of excess cosmic rays (“hotspots”) and others with a deficit of cosmic rays (“cold” spots).

Over the past two years, a similar pattern has been seen over the northern skies by the Milagro observatory in Los Alamos, New Mexico, and the Tibet Air Shower array in Yangbajain. “It is interesting that the pattern can be matched between [these experiments], at least qualitatively. They have very different techniques and systematic effects,” says cosmic-ray physicist Paul Sommers at Pennsylvania State University in University Park. “I regard those hotspots as a good mystery.”

It’s a mystery because the hotspots must be produced within about 0.03 light years of Earth. Further out, galactic magnetic fields should deflect the particles so much that the hotspots would be smeared out across the sky. But no such sources are known to exist."[/list]

3. There is a plasma double layer sheath surrounding the sun and its planets.

Brigit:[quote]And two more items which are supportive of the solar circuit in fig 18.[/quote]
Figure 18:[quote]Figure 18
https://www.holoscience.com/wp/wp-conte ... onment.jpg
The circuit supplying DC electrical power to the Sun. The solar cycle is controlled by variability in its local galactic Z-pinch.[/quote]
If this is the figure 18 you refer to,
I have never understood that figure.
None of it has made any sense to me.
Is this from Wal Thornhill many years ago ?

And two more items which are supportive of the solar circuit in fig 18. The double layer at the poles in the diagram were correctly anticipated by Alfven to be a double radio source (See "Alfven Triumphs Again (and Again)"). And not only that but the violence of these polar double layers exploding would release more power than is in the star or dwarf itself.

And this is what has been reported. "Gamma-ray bursts release an insane amount of radiation, as much as the sun produces over 10 billion years, in anywhere from a few milliseconds to a few hundred seconds. Their origins remain a mystery."

Space com continues:
"Gamma-ray bursts are immense eruptions that pack a lot of power into a few seconds. Astronomers have spotted only a handful of them, despite the fact that they constantly light up the sky. [b]The energy from the explosions produce two energetic beams at the stellar poles.[/b] If those beams don't point toward Earth — and scientists estimate only 1 in 100 do — they remain unseen to telescopes."

I asked earlier if it should be called the sun's heliosheath, or if it should be called something else. Heliosheath is nice because it suggests a "sheath," but a spherical plasma sheath [is] still different from the boundary shown in NASA diagrams.

One advantage is that if we called it the sun's plasmapause, or the sun's magnetosphere, it suggests things we are all more used to. We understand these change shape and size with changing solar wind conditions, and that might be a helpful allusion. In fact I thought it might be necessary to discuss the different morphologies that have been suggested to describe the shape of the boundary between the sun's plasma and the plasma of the interstellar medium.

But actually at the moment I am pretty happy about what Solar has posted about the sun's poles. Every one here already is aware these are important to the sun's circuit, which, as developed by the Electric Universe and following the Hannes Alfven model, closes some great distance above the poles of the sun (see fig 18 pg 5, fig 21 pg 6). Now that was a complaint I had with the Bob Johnson video -- he suggested that the photosphere does not appear to be different at the poles, as might be required by the polar circuit (5 min mark). So it was nice to see Solar begin to unpack how the sun has very interesting polar plasma structures. We can consider Johnson's critique is refuted on that point by all of you.

But I would like to add that in some wavelengths, the sun's poles are often different from the rest of the disk.

[list=]Figure 27. Sun wavelength chart
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width/public/images/717632main_Sun-Wavelength-Chart_full.jpg?itok=8VykbHa2
[/list]

At 171 and 193 angstroms, which are used to see coronal holes, the sun's poles are almost always darker, like a coronal hole. At least I know this to be the case for a few years in this solar cycle during minimum.

by jackokie » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:24 pm

[i]"Regarding an externally powered sun: I think we're in a similar situation to that of William Harvey and the circulation of the blood. He felt there had to be a connection between arteries and veins, but it couldn't be proved until microscopes were available. I prefer the externally powered sun model because of its simplicity and elegance. We know electric currents cause plasma to glow, so why invent some other mechanism for the sun's plasma?"[/i]

That's a really interesting way to put it. That's good. Within the plasma universe we observe self-organizing plasma structures at all scales, and these involve filaments and cells, and lately, concentric shells, separated by double layers. It is not difficult to see that there are a lot of potential components of circuits in space plasmas. And while "the circuit may not always be obvious because the conductors are often invisible and may close the circuit at vast distances from the areas of interest," we do see the moving charges inviting us to discover the circulatory system.

Now if the heliosphere is a double layer plasma sheath, and the sun a simple anode, then the simplicity and elegance of the model has already provided an electric field between the two. This explains the electron drift (which I am trying to get to) towards the sun and the accelerating positive charges away from the sun -- which the thermonuclear sun has no answer for. Not only that, but within this same efield it is also evident that even a slightly negatively charged body*, like a comet, as it moves toward or away from the sun, may experience electric discharges, a glowing cell, and bursty electrical behavior.

*wrt solar wind

WOW! Thank you for the link, Brigit. That video really adds to the plausibility of a plasma universe.

Regarding the planets' influence on the sun: Since the amount of charge influencing the sun appears to fluctuate, I don't think the more vigorous activity of other stars like our sun rules out planetary influence on other stars. Given that we really only have a static snapshot of the cosmos, perhaps 100 million years ago our sun would have appeared more vigorous than one or more of those other stars. The planets of our solar system seem to be in orbits much further out than those we've found orbiting other stars; perhaps it's the orbital distance, and the total charge in the filaments connecting our sun and the planets, that accounts for what we observe.

Regarding an externally powered sun: I think we're in a similar situation to that of William Harvey and the circulation of the blood. He felt there had to be a connection between arteries and veins, but it couldn't be proved until microscopes were available. I prefer the externally powered sun model because of its simplicity and elegance. We know electric currents cause plasma to glow, so why invent some other mechanism for the sun's plasma? As was mentioned a while back on this forum, virtually all of the measurements of charge from our space probes were taken on or close to the ecliptic. We really have no idea of what we would measure in the vast majority of space around the sun. I wonder if it would be possible to crowd source one or more probes, equipped with instruments targeted to EU/PC requirements, to explore that unexplored region. When SpaceX' Starship is available launch costs are going to be ridiculously cheap.

Since I'm just throwing ideas out here, let me toss out another one: It seems like every week there's some airy-fairy announcement from the consensus folks about something or another (axions, anyone?), and there is no competing response from EU/PC. I don't know how to get there, but when it's a major story, like Deep Impact, I would love to see a corresponding press release from EU/PC that explains the phenomena in EU/PC terms (as Shannon has done at Plasma.Pics). We (EU proponents) are still playing in the semi-pro leagues. No matter the justifications, the current way EU is presented is limiting the audience. I believe it would foster better communication of both by separating the hard science from the speculative anthropological and archeological evidence. The proposed press releases should just lay out the EU/PC explanation, without any reference to the standard model and it's benighted rescue squad. Sure the press releases are bound to be ignored at first, but I believe sooner or later someone will engage their brain and begin to seriously check out the EU model. Well, I can dream, can't I?

by Solar » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:05 pm
[i]"Of course one can't forget:

ARTICLE: Magnetic Rope observed for the first time between Saturn and the Sun

These tubular" flux transfer events" (FTEs) aka filaments, or electric currents, have been observed at all the major planets. So, not all of the polar currents come from a distant source, some of them are secondarily circulated out of this kind of 'dielectric reservoir' of energetic particles. If this works then one can only speculate where *some* of the Sun's polar currents might 'connect'. Although I suspect it might be a larger star."[/i]

And I'm so glad you [i]did[/i] speculate! That's a really exciting possibility. I am just swinging by, and don't have any nice images for you, but have you seen the "See the Pattern" presentation about taking a new look at earth's precession?

Gareth Samuel: Seeing Precession Differently | Space News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdLxP-w1LGg
dur 22:20

Here he discusses the relation of the movements of a string of stars -- Altair, Rasselhague, Procyon, Sirius, and our Sun -- relative to Arcturus. In other words, it visualizes the motion of our star's filament, and includes these other stars as part of the Birkeland current local to the Sun.

If these other stars are part of the same plasma filamentary structure, it does offer a possible test of the external power source of the anode sun. That is, if they are all located within this local filament, then it would be very interesting to compare their stellar cycles and flaring activity with our own solar cycles.

The sun does have moderating influences with its planetary family: it does not compare well with other types of main sequence stars of its own class, because those are known to give off more superflares than the Sun. But it would be [i]so[/i] interesting if they had a 22-year cycle.

[quote=Brigit post_id=4540 time=1612134011 user_id=724]
We know that plasmas of different characteristics can separate themselves in this way. But in the case of the sun's heliosheath, did they?
[/quote]

Yes; they do. I'm reminded of that Indiana Jones movie where his cohort said [i]"They're digging in the wrong place"[/i]. Dynamics at Earth and its magnetospheric interactions with the solar wind may provide clues to dynamics of the Sun and heliosphere relative to its interactions with the VLISM external environment. The basic principle is the same ie a charged celestial body moving through a charged environment that is itself in motion. Researches and probes have observed a feature that has been dubbed [b]"Energetic Particle Precipitation" [/b](EPP):

[url=https://cdn.sci.esa.int/documents/34817/35562/Cluster_Auroral_substorms_triggering.jpg/2512dc63-cad0-d0a1-12ca-be334755480f?version=1.0&t=1596036282911]Electron Precipitation[/url] (apply dynamic to nose of heliosphere)

The way it works is: Geomagnetic Storms 'inject' energetic solar wind particles into Earth's magnetosphere, particularly into the Van Allen Radiation Belts. Simultaneously said storm decreases the extent of Earth's Plasmasphere and "shrinks" what is referred to as the "Slot Region". Previous to such a storm the energetic particles in the "Slot Region" were sparse. After such a storm the "Slot Region" becomes populated with higher energy solar wind electrons and protons. See:

[url=https://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/discoveries/n62.html]Cause of Unusual Van Allen Belt Distortions[/url]

[url=https://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/discoveries/N62.jpg]Full Size Image[/url]

This is analogous to 'charging a capacitor' which requires something to behave as though it were a dielectric. Below the "Slot Region" is the Global Atmospheric Electric Circuit where Nitrogen 78%, Oxygen 21% argon etc behaves like a second dielectric maintaining a vertical electric field ranging from 250-500 kV ([url=https://www.google.com/search?q=atmospheric%20global%20electric%20circuit&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CT_1we00kedvyYa0PY90dqX3c&client=opera&hs=lV4&hl=en-US&sa=X&ved=0CBsQuIIBahcKEwjovZLc8cvuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQBg&biw=1285&bih=765]depending on source[/url]) and vertical currents called Wilson Currents after CTR Wilson. Presented is a situation where one has two regions behaving as a dielectric separated by very thin current sheets ("sheath/boundary/interface etc") known as the Ionospheric Wave Guide. These two regions are at different electric potential because they have different particles and particle densities.

Discharges between these two regions takes the form of the fair weather cycle and thunderstorms (Cyclonic and Anticyclonic). The electromagnetic pulse that initiates lightning, and the lightning bolt itself, induce ELF-VLF "Resonant Waves". Those resonant waves propagate into Earth's plasmasphere and excites those high energy solar wind electrons and protons. Those energetic particles were formerly held at bay, they were "trapped" bouncing, spiraling, gyrating back and forth along Earth's magnetic field lines. However lightning induced resonant waves stimulate the particles and cause them to be accelerated. Once accelerated they become "lost" into what is termed a "Loss Cone" ie a 'spray'.

That conical 'spray' of energetic particles interacts with Earth's Ionosphere and GEC thereby 'charging' the GEC up all over again. Some of those energetic particle precipitate into the poles along magnetic field lines and induce a certain quality of aurora. By this method Lightning is said to "clear" the "Slot Region" of energetic particles. The plasmasphere quickly returns to normal and the cycle repeats. This is how the "modulation" of all of that energy is handled. No one knows the critical values necessary to induce this analogous 'dielectric barrier discharging' (which is an actual thing). See:

[url=https://vlf.stanford.edu/research/lightning-induced-electron-precipitation-ground-observations]Ground Observations of Lightning-Induced Electron Precipitation[/url] Fig 1

Some of those electrons and protons entering the poles are secondarily coming from Earth's proverbial back yard having been injected and "stored" into the Van Allen Belts and Slot Region. The question is:

Might not CME's at the Sun serve as analogy of 'Solar Lightning' which propagates all the way out to the heliopause simultaneously populating the the solar system with a bevy of "Halo Electrons" until some critical value is reached relative to the external environment's 'injection' of some quantity of CR's? The heliosphere is sometimes said to "shrink" but this has not been mentioned as of late. IBEX revealed quite a lot of activity occurring at the nose of the heliosphere.It is interesting that the paper that accompanies ([url=https://cdn.sci.esa.int/documents/34817/35562/Cluster_Auroral_substorms_triggering.jpg/2512dc63-cad0-d0a1-12ca-be334755480f?version=1.0&t=1596036282911]this image[/url]) is called:

[quote]"[color=#BF0000]Prebreakup Arc Intensification[/color] due to Short Circuiting of Mesoscale Plasma Flows Over the Plasmapause" by E. Mishin & A. Streltsov (2020)[/quote]

The nose of Earth's magnetosphere is 'arcing' by way of interacting with the solar wind? - and along with resonant waves this 'arcing' between different plasmas at the nose is accelerating formerly "trapped" energetic particle TOWARDS the Earth in a conical spray and simultaneously around the magnetosphere's 'outer layer' into the poles. This, in my humble opinion, is something to work with - because - NATURE does it.

Of course one can't forget:

ARTICLE: [url=https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mathematical-physical-sciences/news/2016/jul/magnetic-rope-observed-first-time-between-saturn-and-sun]Magnetic Rope observed for the first time between Saturn and the Sun[/url]

These tubular" flux transfer events" (FTEs) aka filaments, or electric currents, have been observed at all the major planets. So, not all of the polar currents come from a distant source, some of them are secondarily circulated out of this kind of[i] 'dielectric reservoir'[/i] of energetic particles. If this works then one can only speculate where *some* of the Sun's polar currents might 'connect'. Although I suspect it might be a larger star.

These are excellent quotes Brigit.
Alfven[quote]Space in general has a 'CELLULAR STRUCTURE,' although this is almost impossible to observe unless a spacecraft penetrates the ‘CELL WALLS’ (CURRENT SHEETS)[/quote]
[quote]Hannes Alfvén, described a double layer as, “… a plasma formation by which a plasma — in the physical meaning of this word — protects itself from the environment. It is ANALOGOUS TO A CELL WALL by which a plasma—in the biological meaning of this word—protects itself from the environment.”
Cosmic Ions | thunderbolts TPOD[/quote]


Anthony Peratt[quote]A notable characteristic of space plasma, revealed by satellites and space probes, is the tendency to form sharp boundaries between plasma with different properties. The resultant " CELLULAR STRUCTURE" can have profound astrophysical implications, such as generating electric fields in space and providing sources of energy for driving electric currents over very large distances.[/quote]


The CAPS above are mine.



Alfven says a double layer is analogous to a cell wall...
And Peratt says .... sharp boundaries....resultant cellular structure ....can have profound astrophysical implications.
That brings me to:
Rupert Sheldrake, "Is the sun conscious," EU conference 2018.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E56cSMzFcW8

Thank you all so much. I can close some of my tabs now! (: (:
I am at my posting limit for today according to thunderbolts guidelines.

And a remark on questions of detecting the Langmuir sheath in astrophysical plasmas by Hannes Alfven:

"Space in general has a 'cellular structure,' although this is almost impossible to observe unless a spacecraft penetrates the ‘cell walls’ (current sheets). This means that in distant regions, we cannot hope to detect the cell walls directly. Nor can we tell the size of the cells. It is unpleasant to base far-reaching conclusions on the existence of a structure which we cannot detect directly. But the alternative is to draw far-reaching conclusions from the assumption that in distant regions, the plasmas have properties which are drastically different from what they are in our own neighborhood.

This is obviously far more unpleasant than our inability to detect distant 'cell walls.' Hence, through revision of our concept of the properties of interstellar (and intergalactic space) is an unenviable consequence of recent magnetospheric discoveries."


(Alfvén, H., Cosmic Plasma, Chapter II, Electric Currents in Space Plasmas)

ref: Cellular Plasmas
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2015/07/31/cellular-plasmas-2/
Cellular plasmas are made visible in many nebulae: "As Professor Donald Scott makes clear in his book, The Electric Sky, a planetary nebula results from electrical overload in a star – a normal star flaring up from abnormal electrical stress. The observed filamentary, cellular and toroidal structures are characteristic of plasma behavior."
by Stephen Smith

Here is a beautifully written prediction of the plasma densities and boundaries at the heliosheath by Anthony Peratt:

[b]Challenges to common sense[/b]

"Plasma is a different kind of animal. It doesn't behave as we expect it to and is found in unexpected places. Although plasmas exist in a wide range of conditions, all are composed of a percentage (often small) of charged particles—usually electrons and protons—mixed with neutral atoms or molecules.

This rich "soup" readily conducts electrical currents, especially in filaments that spiral along invisible magnetic-field lines. Their spiraling movement pinches single filaments tighter or draws neighboring filaments into a swirling, high-energy dance that often produces abundant electromagnetic radiation.

A notable characteristic of space plasma, revealed by satellites and space probes, is the tendency to form sharp boundaries between plasma with different properties. The resultant "cellular structure" can have profound astrophysical implications, such as generating electric fields in space and providing sources of energy for driving electric currents over very large distances.

A phenomenon called critical ionization velocity, first proposed by Nobel laureate Hannes Alfvén in his cosmogony theory, has been observed in both laboratory and space plasma. It implies, among other things, an exchange of momentum between ionized and neutral gases in the presence of magnetic fields. Yet another distinctive behavior discovered first in the near-Earth plasma is mechanisms that allow very efficient separation of different chemical elements or molecules.

Many of plasma's unique properties derive from the behavior of electrons. We easily forget that electrons are so unbelievably tiny that they respond to the faintest of magnetic and electrical fields. Being nearly 2,000 times lighter than protons, electrons are far more responsive to acceleration by electric fields. They travel much faster and even bunch together in interacting with the heavier, slower protons and other atomic nuclei that may be present in plasma. Electrons accelerated to high speeds yield the abundant radiation characteristic of plasmas in the laboratory and space.

While space probes have yet to penetrate beyond the plasma sheath of the solar system, the heliosphere, considerable evidence points to the heliosphere's existence as a teardrop-shaped plasma body similar to Earth's magnetosphere. What lies beyond the heliosphere? Is the space there really empty, or will we find more plasma there? The plasma model asserts that we certainly will find plasma in the interstellar space, and even in the greater intergalactic space.

Such a view is contrary to the mainstream cosmological model, which holds that plasma should not be a pervasive presence in interstellar and intergalactic space—or even in interplanetary space. But plasmas are perversely different from what we expect. Let them be dispersed as they are in space, and our concepts of recombination temperatures, at which electrons and atomic nuclei or ions combine into neutral atoms, don't apply. Let the electrons be accelerated to extremely high speeds, as they are in the solar wind, and recombination concepts don't apply. Regardless of concepts and calculations, plasmas tend to persist in space. Furthermore, they still respond strongly to electromagnetic fields, even when their ionized fraction is much less than 1 percent."

We know that plasmas of different characteristics can separate themselves in this way. But in the case of the sun's heliosheath, did they?

We also discussed a couple of the commercial applications for double layers in Figs. 10, 11 & 12 on page 2.