Re (Ra) the Red Sun

[MattEU]

well done thunderbolts on posting another of gary gilligans Comet Venus and God King Scenario articles. Please could you make a quick edit as there appears to be a paragraph error (highlighted in red here).

Re (Ra) the Red Sun
Apr 05, 2010
A hazed red Sun, planetary chaos, and a solar system besieged by dust and debris.

The Egyptian Sun god Re was typically represented as a sun-disk, or as a falcon-headed man wearing a red sun-disk on his head. Such imagery points to the god
’s solar character. The following epithets present traits which are consistent with the life-giving properties of the Sun experienced today.

if anyone is interested in reading futher stuff about this subject and especially more from the author then there are a list of his posts ("The Comet Venus author Gary Gilligan's replies/discussion") on another site discussing EUology in general. if you have any questions or think what he is saying is a load of old cobblers then post it there and he will very likely answer you.

TPOD!

[The Great Dog]

Gary's ideas are interesting, but the Great Dog sees that they are not in accord with Electric Universe theory. His hypothesis ignores most of the work that has been done by Dave Talbott, Dwardu Cardona, Wal Thornhill, Rens Van Der Sluijs, Anthony Peratt and many others.

The Thunderbolts site does have a disclaimer about submissions by contributors. The Great Dog realizes that articles from those outside that group must be taken with a grain of salt, and not used to support or deny EU principles.

TGD

[MosaicDave]

Gary Gilligan has some interesting and provocative ideas in this article and on his web site. However, there's an interesting irony surrounding one of his basic underlying ideas. He writes:

Re’s most basic form consisted of a simple red disk. Why was this? Why not portray the Sun as it appeared? The Sun is a blinding, golden-yellow disk with emanating rays – a ball of glaring, golden light.

Well now, actually, no it isn't... At mid-day with a clear sky, the sun looks like a white circle. Viewed through smog and haze on the horizon, it tends more towards yellow / orange / red. The "golden-yellow disk with emanating rays" is to a large extent really just a cultural icon; it's the way every first grader learns to draw the sun, and doesn't directly correspond to the sun's actual appearance. Couldn't a different culture from long ago, have a different icon?

Will some alternative historian, a thousand years in the future, look at our artwork and artifacts, and conclude that during our age, the sun was surrounded by prominent "emanating rays"?

Also, Mr. Gilligan quotes (regarding Re):

Thou dost show thyself at dawn and at eventide day by day

Albeit this is a translation, and likely a translation of a translation, but at least on the face of it, could it be that the "Re" this refers to, isn't exactly the same "sun" in the way that we think about it? The quote seems to be referring to something that appears at dawn and at dusk... and they draw it as a red circle, sometimes with a snake around it... could this be rather some experienced aspect of the sun, or something else?

--dc

[Grey Cloud]

This whole line of reasoning as advocated by Gary Gilligan and others is entirely specious.
How does he, or anyone, know what that colour looked like thousands of years ago? Could it not possibly have faded?

GG focuses on one element in a complex image:

Would he care to interpret the rest of the image?

In the TPOD he asks states:

....and yet Egyptian art reveals not one single golden glaring Sun with a complete 360° sweep of sun rays.

Perhaps not, but a "drab and lifeless" red disk was not the only way the Sun was represented:

And could he explain why there are two Suns in this image?

Nor was the Sun-god the only deity with the red disk:

Other cultures had other ways of representing the Sun which had even less similarity with " a ball of glaring, golden light":

Admittedly this piece, according to MS dating, is late. It's Ah Kin, the Sun-god of the Maya.
For those who like a "golden glaring Sun with a complete 360° sweep of sun rays", here is Surya:

[Grey Cloud]

I forgot this one:

AncientEgypt Sun.jpg (28.79 KiB) Viewed 13764 times

[moses]

Having been in discussion with Gary gilligan on the Everything is Electric group, I must say that I am thrilled to see an article by Gary on the Thunderbolts Picture of the Day. Thrilled because it means that the people who choose what articles appear there, have made a most gracious decision, and clearly see the quality that is Gary Gilligan.
Mo

[MattEU]

a good theory or idea predicts and works on a number of different levels and scenarios, one of the strengths of the EU Theory is exactly this.

gary gilliagan has started from some specific points/foundations and worked from there. all ideas or theories need a basis or starting point. if the theory behind it is generally correct then you should still get ideas that work and if you change the scenario then they should still work. transferable skills so to speak.

you may not agree with gilligans starting points and some of his ideas. some alternative EU explanations seem better to me and others but he does not agree with them. but thats the joy of discussion and what makes the world oh so interesting. gary has not shied away from some awkward discussions and for that you have to admire him. the whole point of a discussion, which seems to have been sadly lost nowadays but at least not on this forum, is to be prepared from the start to have your mind open and change your own ideas.

what i will say is that although i dont agree with everything he says i trust an idea/theory more when it can help to explain specific subjects it was not built around. the EU Theory seems to explain most things, i have applied it to geology and it works, others have applied it to the Akashic Records and it works. At the moment some of us are discussing the bible and the EU Theory fits into that also.

and this is where the transferable skills come into it, gary has started to explain some of the bibles stranger stories using his basic theory and it makes sense and fits in with his theory. it may not be correct but By Jove you cant ignore it. i now really look forward to re re re reading the bible and looking/discussing it from a number of different view points.

i would suggest to everyone to read garys comet venus book as its very unlikely that everything he says is incorrect and he might just have that piece of the jigsaw puzzle that fits in with what you are working with at the moment.

there are some starter ideas of garys that are worth investigating

* his first is a challenge about "The Nonexistent Battles of the Pharaohs". gary suggests that most of the famous pharaohs battles seen on the temples did not happen on land but were in the heavens. if this is not correct then it is easy to disprove his idea.

* the egyptian gods were heavenly bodies and physical features/effects during the times of chaos in our solar system. this fits in with EUology of the warrring gods such as Mercury etc and his idea above.

* Upper and Lower Egypt - why would the egyptians separate the land north/south when they have the natural divide east/west of the nile? the egyptians were so into the afterlife would it not make more sense that they are talking about the living land and the after life land?

[MattEU]

This whole line of reasoning as advocated by Gary Gilligan and others is entirely specious.
How does he, or anyone, know what that colour looked like thousands of years ago? Could it not possibly have faded?

hi GC, this is one part of garys argument/theory but i would suggest it might sort of be a red herring dont concentrate on this specific example but investigate what he is saying about the egyptian gods as planets, the dust bands in the sky (causing the red sun) and especially the Upper/Lower lands of Egypts that were so important to the egyptians

"It is like a finger pointing toward the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."
Bruce Lee


TPOD!

[Grey Cloud]

Hi MattEU,
I've already had this dance (x2) with Gary:

The nonexistent battles of the Pharoahs - a challenge to all
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... =902#p8787

Plasma Mythology forum discussion
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... =15#p29417
With regard to the PMFD link, it takes you to a post of mine which he never did respond to.

[MattEU]

cheers GC, will have a read of those

[seasmith]

Evolution of Egyptian theism over the millennia:

“ Horus (HOR us)

God of the sky, depicted as a falcon, or as a hawk/falcon-headed man.
Since Horus was said to be the sky, he was considered to also contain the sun and moon. It became said that the sun was his right eye and the moon his left, and that they traversed the sky when he, a falcon, flew across it. Thus he became known as Harmerty - Horus of two eyes.


Amen /Amun/ Amon/ Amen-Re/ Amon-Ra/ Amon-Re

Alternate spellings: Amen /Amun/ Amon
Alternate spellings: Re/ Ra
Alternate spellings: Amen-Re/ Amen-Ra/ Amun-Re/ Amun-Ra/ Amon-Re/ Amon-Ra

Amun (pronounced AM mun)

Amun did not physically engender the universe. His position as King of gods developed to the point of virtual monotheism where other gods became manifestations of him. With Osiris, Amun-Ra is the most widely recorded of the Egyptian gods.

Amun became depicted in human form, seated on a throne, wearing on his head a plain, deep circlet from which rise two straight parallel ostrich plumes, but it can also be worn by a king. It appears to associate the ruler with Amun and to legitimate his rule under the god's protection. The plumes were symbolic of the spirit of duality. The Amun crown can be adorned with horns, disks and uraei.

Sun god
Overall, the sun god was the dominant deity in Egyptian religion, although he could take different forms.. The earliest deities associated with the sun are Wadjet, Sekhmet, Hathor, Nut, Bast, Bat, and Menhit. First Hathor, and then Isis, give birth to and nurse Horus and Ra.
In the eighteenth dynasty, Akhenaten changed the polytheistic religion of Egypt to a pseudo-monotheistic one, Atenism. All other deities were replaced by the Aten, including, Amun, the reigning sun god of Akhenaten's own region. Unlike other deities, the Aten did not have multiple forms. His only image was a disk - a symbol of the sun.
Most common forms:
At dawn - Khepri, the scarab beetle rolling the sun disk above the eastern horizon
In evening - Atum, an old man - Atum-Ra
Re-Harakhty, the great hawk/falcon soaring in the sky, responsible for all creation. Amalgamation of Ra and Horus; Falcon-headed Ra, sometimes crowned with a solar disk and Uraeus (see illustration at left)
Amun-Re, king of the gods and protector of the pharaoh when he was on military campaigns. he handed the scimitar to great warrior pharaohs like Tuthmosis III.

http://www.buffaloah.com/a/archsty/egyp ... .html#Amen


From Schwaller’s Temple of Man (page 533)

( from granite stele in British Museum [no. 838])

“ Salute to Amun when he rises as Horus of the eastern horizon by Amun’s master of the works Suti, and by the master of the works Hor. **( Suti and Hor speak sometimes in the plural and other times in the singular, as if they were a single person, the fallen archangel.) [spelling edit]
They say: “Homage to you who is the perfect Ra of each day, who rises in each morning without respite and who is the Khepri burdened with our work. We have your rays in our eyes and are not able to prceive them. The most pure gold is not comparable to your splendor. ….such is your splendor, such is the splendor of the firmament; your colors are more brilliant than its colors. “”

~

[Xuxalina Rihhia]

All of this could explain why Egyptians went with so little clothing. Today, they would be sunburned to death in the fierce tropical/desert sun. It also means that there was most likely an ice-age in the far northern and southern latitudes at the time.

[MattEU]

yeah the dust/debris band making a red sun would mean that not just mad dogs and englishmen could go out in the mid day sun.

there is also the other idea that some people have about a band of water or ocean of water in our upper atmsophere or (not sure if they say this though) maybe surrounding our planet. this coming down to earth may have caused the flood. this would also have reduced the suns heat/glare i would suggest

the one thing i like about garys GKS idea is that when applied to other religions/faiths/stories they fit in. a good theory predicts or can explain. now it may just be that human myths and legends are so crazy that any idea can fit into them ...



one example is why are cows holy for hindu's? why is the white cow sacred to the hindu faith? the white cow either as itself or as a goddess seems to have been sacred/holy for egyptians and hindus. is the reason that white cows are holy to hindu people either inspired from the egyptians or from the same event seen in the sky or from 1 of the other many possibilities

i have done a quick starter investigation of why were or are cows holy to hindus and egyptians and another short version on the holy cow that also includes the Dendera Light Bulb. i wont post any further information here, unless people want to discuss it further, as i dont want to be accused of heresy

[MattEU]

garys God King Scenario ideas can be applied to other mythology from around the world which is a good sign. as the SIS (Society for Interdisciplinary Studies) suggest krishnu is also blue and part of Quetzalcoatl

http://www.sis-group.org.uk/news/ancient-aurorae.htm

At http://www.thunderbolts.info April 28th, 'Picture of the Day', ... 'Amun - an Ancient Aurora filled sky' by Gary Gilligan. He claims the Egyptian god Amun wears a crown that is the aurora - sacred colours that have been eroded or flaked away from stone monuments over the millennia. The parallel is of course with the bright tail feathers of the quetzal bird, cognate within the Mesoamerican god Quetzalcoatl. Such stone statues and monuments, even temples and buildings, were once colourful affairs. Sometimes these can be put back into place by computer simulation - but generally, most of the evidence has been lost - or even brushed aside by archaeologists intent on the visible object in front of them rather than it's detritus on the ground. Apparently, Mesopotamian ziggurats were colourful buildings - reflecting aurora (perhaps). Therefore this particular post on Thunderbolts is relevant, and in the same vein. Amun is commonly shown in a human form standing or sitting on a throne and wearing a red flat topped crown with two tall plumes. He also holds a sceptre - symbol of the thunderbolt. Amun was especially popular in the NK period (mid to late 2nd millennium BC) and he was known as King of the Gods (at that moment in time). Gilligan produces an image of Amun with blue skin, a yellow kilt and red crown. the two tall plumes are segmented into blue, red, and green. He then compares this with a photograph of aurora and suggests the crown is a symbolic representation of an intense geomagnetic storm. A wonderful insight.

Amun was also known as 'the hidden one' - possibly reflecting the transparency of auroral phenomena, 'whose true form could never be known' (the undulating shape shifting nature of aurorae). Gilligan then says the solar wind is deflected around the earth to form an enormous magnetic tail divided into two lobes rising and setting in opposition to the Sun. Nowadays this is invisible but he speculates it could account for the two mountains as in the title of Amun, Lord of the Two Mountains (and parallels with myth elsewhere in the world are obvious). This is possibly why he was adorned by two plumes, Gilligan thinks, rather than a single one (and we may note the tail feathers of the quetzal bird are also two). In addition, Gilligan has found a parallel between the blue skinned Amun and the Anglo Saxon god Woden - the colour of blue appears to play a major role in myth (see also the blue Krishna for example).