What's Wrong with Science is Pathocracy

[Lloyd]

* I found this interesting link yesterday from Catherine Fitts's site http://solari.com. The link is http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/politica ... wski_2.htm.
* I condensed the very long article into a shorter one here: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index ... ic=18297.0.
* It seems there's good scientific evidence that about 6% of any population is psychopathic and another 12% is sociopathic, the latter produced largely by influence of the former. Competitive societies, like the U.S., have the highest concentrations of psychopaths, because they have an us versus them mentality and they use any means available to get ahead, usually relying on naive normal people to help them out by the latter doing most of the work of the former for them.
* The article points out that all major fields of influence, including science, education, politics, medicine, psychology, law enforcement etc attract psychopaths, who have no moral barriers to interfere with their attaining leadership positions. It states that normal people assume that all people are inherently good, but that's a fatal assumption. Those who lack a conscience are not good, and there are physical reasons for their lack of conscience, usually involving damage to the frontal lobes of the brain, due to accidents, drugs etc.
* So the solution to pathological science is psychology, the science of Velikovsky.

[Grey Cloud]

* The article points out that all major fields of influence, including science, education, politics, medicine, psychology, law enforcement etc attract psychopaths, who have no moral barriers to interfere with their attaining leadership positions.

* So the solution to pathological science is psychology, the science of Velikovsky.

Sorry Lloyd, the voices in my head made me do it.

[moses]

Sorry Lloyd, the voices in my head made me do it. Grey Cloud

Can we put you in that 6% then ?
Mo

[mague]

Hello Lloyd,

looking back into mankinds history this isnt the first case of "decadency". It happened before and the result was always an impolsion of a culture.

Psychology is probably able to describe the problem, but not able to solve it. It even might be that any culture will implode once it reached a critical mass (size). The effects are so much bigger. When a misguided chiftain is burning down a village of tents its by far not as much damage as when the roman emperor burns down rome. Same cause, same action but the result is bigger by a magnitude or two.

I grew up in post war germany. A poor and bombed out country and i witnessed what happens to people from living in ruins to being in the top 15 of industrial countries. That happened in only 40 years and you can see the insanity literally at that speed of growth. 20-30 years ago we had news about massive traffic jam in LA or this student in the US who climbed a tower and shot 25 people. That was decades back, still the germans copied anything and now we have massive traffic jam and amok shooting schoolboys. The only word i have is braindead. Unable to learn from the mistakes of others. Cause is a pathologic disturbed ego.

Cure ? None. Any form of revolution will create a vacuum of power and attrackt the next generation of morbid beings. I tend to think this is all the slow but deadly precise cycle of evolution.

[Lloyd]

* It seems I neglected in my first post here to emphasize that this information on pathocracy is extremely relevant to the Electric Universe theory. Most of the scientists who favor E.U. theory seem to think that the problem with conventional science is merely inertia of conventional thinking, which will eventually be overcome by overwhelming evidence and logic. But the study of pathocracy suggests that the 6% of psychopaths are a disease of society and that this disease must be cured before science can be returned to sanity.
* Science is capable of finding solutions to such problems as pathocracy. And, since it involves the mind, psychology is the proper science to find such solutions. And psychology has surely done good studies, even if psychopaths are drawn to leadership positions in psychology, as much as other fields. I was just talking to a mental health professional last night, who agreed that pathocracy is real, including among members of that field. He talked a bit about some of the insane practices that some psychologists promote, such as lobotomies, electro-shock therapy, brain-impairing psychotropic drugs etc.
* Solutions require first becoming aware of the problem, but in this case they also require some kind of quarantine to keep the subjects [i.e. the psychopaths] from contaminating the studies on the problem. The scientists in Eastern Europe etc who began this work of studying pathocracy under the Nazis and then the Communists apparently were at great risk and some were actually killed.
* So the difficulties are great, but being aware of them is helpful for then being able to look for ways to overcome them. So it seems we need to bring psychology back into this movement that a psychologist started.

[mague]

Dear Lloyd,

you ARE on a dangerous path.

Lifestyle diseases (also called diseases of longevity or diseases of civilization) are diseases that appear to increase in frequency as countries become more industrialized and people live longer. They can include Alzheimer's disease, atherosclerosis, asthma, cancer, chronic liver disease or cirrhosis, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, metabolic syndrome, nephritis or chronic renal failure, osteoporosis, acne, stroke, depression and obesity.

I think, beyond depression, we could add some diseases of mind and soul. I mean depression is a wide field. There is emotional separation, lack of love, lack of social interaction, lack of trust, psychological stress in competitive societies and in general.

This is nothing new. Did you know that the romans killed themselves slowly ? They coated their high-tech water pipes with lead.

Lead may cause irreversible neurological damage as well as...

Alright. Usually we do look for the cause of a disease and remove it once we found it. Right ? We find some evil bacteria and then remove it from the body to allow it to heal. You got a thorn in your thumb ? Well, you remove it to let your thumb heal. Right ?

Now... there is a lifestyle disease. The lifestyle is making people sick. Hmm.. what should we remove ? The thorn or your thumb ?

[Orlando]

The Lifestlye!
Nice Info, I agree on the relevance, and also on how it comes to be.
one by one individuals will learn that they must be responsible for their actions, words and drama always reveal the Intent, problem is, the real Pathocracy IS the Ego, we all have one, Normality is the condition of being conscience of it, and learning from our experiences by integrating them into our daily Affairs.
The Limited Liability Legal Person Status and Religion has given a License/Forgiveness wherby one is not accountable for their Actions, a bad recipe for any Civilization.
Interesting topic Indeed.

Peace
Or

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Orlando,
Nice post and I totally agree that the lifestyle hould go. The western medical profession would remove neither the thumb nor the thorn but would treat the festering wound - it's a better money-spinner.

[Orlando]

Thanks Grey, nice article Lloyd.

When one can reflect on peoples daily routines, we learn much. We can see it developing with the children when they interact and share and play amongst their peers, akin to watching paint dry or a slow drip on a stone overlooking the subtle changes that condition them, and the reactions from our growing years that subtly formed our own traits.

I have come to realize that there are many who care enough for themselves to make a real change that will by its reaction better their nieghbours, the real issue are the couch politicians who plan more than they do.
A leader is exactly what the term implies not by rhetorics but by Actions, the pass the buck generations who have lost touch with their Grandfathers/Mothers oral traditions have not the slightest clue how important it is in their development as intelligent life.

We are Fascinating creatures, our Intellect always ahead of our emotional discipline, we must remember that thoughts preceed action, once in motion we become very habitual as nature is water slowly dripping on a rock.
Sad really , Nature reveals all, yet some will spend all their life searching for what is right under their nose!

Sorry for the Rant, but Lloyd has touched on the essence of what affects the direction of civilizations, I feel it is the Number one issue to be addressed, "Who and what am I and how do I improve on this continuing existence"?

Peace
Or

[mague]

The Limited Liability Legal Person Status and Religion has given a License/Forgiveness wherby one is not accountable for their Actions, a bad recipe for any Civilization.
Interesting topic Indeed.

Peace
Or

Why is that a bad recipe ? Once you understand the mechanics of it you cant do anything but to forgive.
Religions have a full understanding of the evil. How daemons possess people and force them into evil actions. Psychology has a quite good understanding of mental missconfigurations and anakastic actions. Obsession is the keyword for our civilisation anyways. Read some trestimonies from child molester's. Read how they suddenly watch themselves doing things that are against their own moral codex. Something is taking over the control while they are watching what happens. Many of them are happy to be locked away actually.

Father, forgive them. They do not know what they are doing.

Knowledge is Forgiveness

There is no doubt that we have to care about disturbed people. But to lock them away without changing the cause makes you as guilty as this person.

Humans are herd animals. Herd is a strategy to have a better life. Humans are cooperative mamals, not competitive. Eugenics is a total missinterpretation of Darwin. Those guys are as missconfigured as the molester. Even worse, because they can not see that being locked away is a good idea for them.

As the molster many others describe their crimes as: Something taking over control. Then they hit their children, womans or people they dont even know. They all tell that something is controling them while they watch themselves doing this. It doesnt matter if this is a good ole deamon or a mind pattern that got smashed to pieces by civilisation. We then say they are full of it. But we dont ask what is this IT and how did it get into this person. Where is the herd to protect them ? Busy with the stockmarket or another useless tech. invention to make more money i guess. The true Darwinism is that humans are on top of the food chain. If we go mad there is no enemy to balance but ourselves.

Well, maybe some bacteria and virus Clock is ticking... 10 more years and we do not have any working antibiotics. Then we are no longer on top of the food chain and the gnomes will teach us a lesson or two about sanity. Yeah i know. We are going to send our nanite army by then... ROFL

[Orlando]

That is mis-quoted, the correct line was "Forgive them not, for they know what they do."

We have to realize that true religion is a private understanding within ones own Spiritual realm, not about Capitilizing on forgiveness.

We do have enemies, manipulators, in nature survival of the fittest means intellectual adaptation.
They have legislated their defense into the Legal systems of societies for their gain.
while using Benevolence(another ego disease) to trick the good at heart.

People stood and watched him get crucified, not he was Crucified by the hand washer,He was in a Legal position to give the people what they want." burn the cathars at the stake"

In Nature there is no forgiveness, only cause and effect, action and reaction, the rest is drama for the Intellectually numb
and the self absorbed.
Being smart or forgiving has nothing to do with facts and truth.

Things don't just happen, there is a process, if some don't see it, does not mean it deosnt exist.
people speak of these manipulatirs as if they have a problem.
Life is cycle and re-cycle, all problems and conflicts arise from the Manipulative and Benevolent ego both equally charged at opposite polarities.

In nature what is, just is, people have this sense of Divinity whereby they can make their own assumptions on how to fix things, for their gain, coincidentally of course.

Human nature and behaviour is a series of conditioning cycles that left unchecked produce all sorts of psycosis.
What is not in Nature is of mans own dellusions and will be eliminated.not by his doing but by his undoing.
some are tune with it, others spend years searching for the answers to the wrong questions even when it was right under their noses.
What you speak of are social problems that manifest in specific Individuals because the framework allows it, takes two.
For there to be abuser and manipulators there has to be unsuspecting victims.

As far as child molesters, they are drawn to the fantasy that children are not properly supervised, they thrill in the chase.
While they consume their thoughts with perversion, to which most if not all come from a molested childhood themselves.
The cycle of violence has been engineered, don't kid yourself by thinking this is mankinds Nature.
We are creatures of habit and a product of our environment. period!
throw in the illusion of Perception and individual opinion and Voila, a state of affairs, for the couch christs planning solutions that make business instead of solving the real issues.

We all make choices, some are aware of the consequences, most never are.
Each must be their own politician and priest.
Remember everytime we point the finger, 3 are pointing back to us!
Try it and look at your hand, see for yourself.

Peace
Or

[mague]

We do have enemies, manipulators, in nature survival of the fittest means intellectual adaptation.

Regarding Nature this is the most common error in our civilisation. There are no enemies. Nature, or in a bigger context the Universe, is cooperative, not competitive. Big, big fallacy due to overrated ego. Intellect, if the intellect was able to free itself from ego it could recognize that anything in Nature is working together for one goal, to keep the biosphere up and running. Flora and fauna live or die for the biosphere, for their successors. Nothing ever happens without a meaning. Religion then is about honoring ancestors, the living and the successors. This includes all, not only humans. Basically its pure natural logic. Regarding spirit it might be interessting that all natural systems of belief are convinced that their ancestors are still around. Thats why spirit is part of natural religions/philosophy.

Regarding our current civilisation i will agree. Many people moved to far away from the natural path. All living and dying is meaningless. Not all but a lot of civilized events do not serve the biosphere but the egos of a few. Many civilized events are even against the biosphere. Many people exploit other people. There is definetely a treshold, but beyond that civilisations turn into unnatural, into foreign matter. And biosphere will then remove it. There is no intellectual adaption, just look for the exit. If your house is burning you dont adapt intellectual, you grab your kids and run for the exit. Thats common sense or natural intelligence

If you play chess and one is cheating, then the game is useless. Its not about competition, about winning or loosing. The game itself is useless, a pure waste of time. Adapting to the cheater is a waste of time because the game turns useless once the first cheated move was made. The non-cheater is moving to the level of the cheater if he accepts the challange. And thats exactly what he wanted, to pull you down to subjective raise his ego. But the solution is to forgive him and leave the game unfinished.

[Lloyd]

* Well, my idea, based on the article I paraphrased here at the start, was that psychopathy and sociopathy seem to be what prevents acknowledgement of Electric Universe theory and allowance of other scientific and societal progress. And scientific method can and needs to be used to find a solution to the problem of psychopathy and sociopathy. So, what I'm most interested in in this case, is how we might use scientific method for such a purpose. Maybe the science of engineering would have the best process to apply for this. Engineering involves planning. We need to engineer a better society. How might an engineer work on that problem? First we need a blueprint of the society we want to build. Then we need to plan how to obtain the resources, including manpower, to do the building, while taking into account the forces [psychopaths] that will attempt to destroy or mutate what we try to build.
* Is there an engineer in the house?

[Orlando]

Nice post Mague, I think we are in agreement then that we do have a choice in playing these games and whom we engage with, as I was saying the same or using another path to the same conclusion.

If I interact with someone who I find a little deceptive, yes I move on with no after thoughts or harsh feelings.
If this us akin to forgiveness I agree.
My reference to intelligence was written better by you!
Adapting to ones environment, while attining is what I was driving at.

In total agreement Lloyd, the current structure could be loads better.
There are many Engineers who could make some brilliant plans, their main concern though is Payment,
to which the real issue is eradication the current Financial system and incorporate a Credit system tied to education.
As we learn we earn.

What most do not understand are Value, they see it with possesive eyes.
One question that I had, "Why are the best things in life free?"
To which I found, they are not free, they require discipline of mind , body and spirit.
I hang my hat on these values and would work for them, as I have allready structured our family life in this fasion.
We have 5 Children, no credit, what we have we work for then purchase, our home life is founded on principles of maintaining a healthy mindset and treating each other fairly.
I have also found that there really are only a few rules as a guide for all.
Do no harm to people or their property, do not infringe on the rights of others, do not use fraud in your contracts.
My favourite is for all to just mind their own business!
this would take a great deal of discipline as most are tempted at finger pointing as we are very inquisitive beings.

Thanks for the topic.

Peace
Or