Galactic core spectral shifts 7/26/11

[webolife]

The core of M84 spectrographically illustrated in this date's TPOD shows a symmetric blue and redshifting central region, in clear affirmation of the standard model for relative velocity with respect to the observer due to a spinning core. How does intrinsic redshift [Arp's theory] account for this symmetry?

[tayga]

Arp has no disagreement with velocity-related red shift. His contention is that the red shift of astronomical objects can not be ascribed to velocity alone.

Some of the example he cites in his book Seeing Red are systems where it is necessary to correct the red shifts of pairs of quasars because one is moving towards the observer and one away. This is analogous to the analysis you are describing.

[David Russell23]

tayga is exactly right. Arp does not say that no redshift comes from doppler effects. For example, the rotational velocities of spiral galaxies are determined by variations in spectral shifts across the disk of the galaxy. For a rotating galaxy the redshift of the galaxy will be that of the core and rotational effects will a higher redshift to one side of the core and a lower redshift to the other side of the core.

The other thing is that Arp also expects a component of the redshift to result from a cosmological redshift-distance relation. In his model all galaxies the same age follow a tight Hubble relation. He argues that younger galaxies have excess redshift relative to older galaxies at the same distance.

It should also be noted that some researchers (though not Arp) believe that the universe is expanding, but that intrinsic redshift is superposed on top of the cosmological component resulting from expansion.

[webolife]

Thank you both for your comments. This is how I read Arp as well, and wanted to make sure I was not missing something. I also disavow any cosmological constant supporting of a big bang.

[markhenry115]

thanks david for useful information, I really appreciate your effort !

[jjohnson]

Welcome to the TB Forum, markhenry; I saw that you joined a few days before (U.S.) Thanksgiving.

Mikimar Publishing, up in Portland, Oregon, has a lot of e-books, DVD's and paper books, including some of Halton Arp's work, here. It's easy to find them on sites such as Amazon as well. He offers interesting insights from his life and the history of those days back when he was still getting telescope time here in the U.S., as well as builds up his ideas based on very well done observations. He was particularly good at using statistics to show why his observations were most likely valid, and the arguments against them, when others tried using statistics, were demolished. You have to admire free-thinkers with his skill and rigor, and wonder what the heck has gone wrong with a system that casts these guys out and forces them to go to other countries to practice science. Sad.

There is so much to read, in so many diverse subjects, you'll just have to pick out the areas that interest you most, and let them point you to more and more connections as you go along. Reading the Forum may or may not give you the particular insight on something you are curious about, but you can always ask, or start a thread to kick-start a subject, and everyone seems to want to pitch in. Only occasionally is a question asked and no one's interested in responding.

Have fun!

Jim