Asteroids

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electric gravity confirmed in certain co-orbital asteroi

Unread postby D_Archer » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:06 am

Hi Hossein,

Just some links, a thread on thunderbolts about a Trojan > http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4822&p=54967&sid=4dc0cd827c7ad587c60fa5dffba5a859

Miles Mathis on the C-Orbit > http://milesmathis.com/aster.pdf

I am not sure if the asteroid make the corkscrew motion, the C or horseshoe orbit is correct, but why indeed would it sprial? Could be artifact of how the data for its motion is obtained.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: Electric gravity confirmed in certain co-orbital asteroi

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:26 am

Yes, it has been confirmed that it makes a cork-screw motion. The question is as to why.

The forum thread that you pointed to - is another interesting case, albeit it is vulnerable to being explained away by complex Lagrangian calculus and abstract ideas of gravitation.
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Re: Electric gravity confirmed in certain co-orbital asteroi

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:48 am

Just to remind people of the same morphology seen in some of Saturn's rings. Langragian points are not relevant here:-

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infoc ... 154894.jpg
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badas ... gwaves.jpg
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Re: Electric gravity confirmed in certain co-orbital asteroi

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:20 am

D_Archer wrote:Hi Hossein,

Just some links, a thread on thunderbolts about a Trojan > http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4822&p=54967&sid=4dc0cd827c7ad587c60fa5dffba5a859

Miles Mathis on the C-Orbit > http://milesmathis.com/aster.pdf

I am not sure if the asteroid make the corkscrew motion, the C or horseshoe orbit is correct, but why indeed would it sprial? Could be artifact of how the data for its motion is obtained.

Regards,
Daniel


Pardon me if I go off tangent here (excuse the pun).

Miles Mathis makes the following observation:-

"Therefore, we may ask what would make the asteroid make a 90 degree turn at this point in its motion. Even more to the point, what would make it turn another 90 degree and move away from the Earth? We need a force or other mechanical cause here, not just math or field lines. Neither math nor field lines can turn an asteroid."

Now, I'm sure the mainstream have answers to that question. Or have they merely force-fit ad hoc theories to Newton's and Kepler's laws? Mathis also makes quite bold claims regarding Lagrange's errors.

All this is a moot point however, because the asteroid I have presented in this thread is not part of the Lagrangian dynamics (except for certain brief periods of its orbit perhaps).
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Re: Electric gravity confirmed in certain co-orbital asteroi

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:56 am

Take this from Wikipedia:-

When 2002 AA29 is approaching the Earth from in front (i.e. it is moving slightly slower, and the Earth is catching it up), the gravitational attraction of the Earth shifts it onto a slightly faster orbit, a little nearer the Sun. It now hurries ahead of the Earth along its new orbit, until after 95 years it has almost lapped the Earth and is coming up from behind. Again it comes under the Earth's gravitational influence; this time it is lifted onto a slower orbit, further from the Sun. On this orbit it can no longer keep pace with the Earth, and it falls behind until in 95 years it is once again approaching the Earth from in front. The Earth and 2002 AA29 chase each other in turn around the Sun, but do not get close enough to break the pattern.

On 8 January 2003, the asteroid approached the Earth from in front to a distance of 5.9 million kilometres (3.7 million miles), its closest approach for nearly a century. Since that date, it has been hurrying ahead, and will continue to do so until it has reached its closest approach from behind. As a result of this subtle exchange with the Earth, unlike other Earth orbit crossing asteroids, we need have no fear that it could ever collide with the Earth.


Clearly interesting indeed. The Earth's Hill Sphere (area of gravity more important than the sun) has a radius of about 1.5 million kilometers. The sun is doing something to keep it in this spiral pattern.
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NASA asks "What is Creating Gullies on Vesta?"

Unread postby trevbus » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:11 pm

NASA having a hard time explaining these gullies on an Asteroid!

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2012-389

December 06, 2012

In a preliminary analysis of images from NASA's Dawn mission, scientists have spotted intriguing gullies that sculpt the walls of geologically young craters on the giant asteroid Vesta. Led by Jennifer Scully, a Dawn team member at the University of California, Los Angeles, these scientists have found narrow channels of two types in images from Dawn's framing camera - some that look like straight chutes and others that carve more sinuous trails and end in lobe-shaped deposits. The mystery, however, is what is creating them?

The presentation on gullies is one of several that Dawn team members are making at this year's American Geophysical Union conference in San Francisco. Other topics include craters on Vesta, the giant asteroid's mineralogy, and the distinctive dark and bright materials found on the surface.

"The straight gullies we see on Vesta are textbook examples of flows of dry material, like sand, that we've seen on Earth's moon and we expected to see on Vesta," said Scully, who presented in-progress findings on these gullies today. "But these sinuous gullies are an exciting, unexpected find that we are still trying to understand."

The sinuous gullies are longer, narrower, and curvier than the short, wide, straight gullies. They tend to start from V-shaped, collapsed regions described as "alcoves" and merge with other gullies. Scientists think different processes formed the two types of gullies and have been looking at images of Earth, Mars and other small bodies for clues.

"On Earth, similar features - seen at places like Meteor Crater in Arizona -- are carved by liquid water," said Christopher Russell, Dawn's principal investigator, also based at UCLA. "On Mars, there is still a debate about what has caused them. We need to analyze the Vesta gullies very carefully before definitively specifying their source."

Indeed, scientists have suggested various explanations for gullies on Mars since fresh-looking gullies were discovered in images from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor in 2000. Some of the proposed Martian mechanisms involve water, some carbon dioxide, and some neither. One study in 2010 suggested that carbon-dioxide frost was causing fresh flows of sand on the Red Planet.

JPL manages the Dawn mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. Dawn is a project of the directorate's Discovery Program, managed by NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. The University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) is responsible for overall Dawn mission science. Orbital Sciences Corp. in Dulles, Va., designed and built the spacecraft. The German Aerospace Center, the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, the Italian Space Agency and the Italian National Astrophysical Institute are international partners on the mission team. The California Institute of Technology in Pasadena manages JPL for NASA. For more information about Dawn, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/dawn and http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov .
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Re: NASA asks "What is Creating Gullies on Vesta?"

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:19 pm

This TPOD from July 2011 http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2011/arch11/110916hearth.htm explains canyons there on Vesta, so maybe the gullies are similar.
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Re: NASA asks "What is Creating Gullies on Vesta?"

Unread postby kiwi » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:07 pm

Hi Trev


NASA having a hard time explaining these gullies on an Asteroid!


On this TB Podcast the Stardust Craft becomes NEXT as it closes in for a second look at Comet Tempel , .. from about the 8 minute mark there are images showing "etching" in progress, and also a Mesa that has "grown" by this process to a size exceeding the previous record of it ....

http://www.youtube.com/user/thunderboltsproject


And NASA seems to be eliminating confusion in general regards their "model" by the introduction of a new celestial object they're calling a "Rock-Comet" ... by my reckoning in about 2 more years they will heve "re-discovered" the electrical connections for themselves,.. can you say "Magnetic-Rope"? :?

------Published on Nov 29, 2012
The Geminid meteor shower peaks on Dec. 13th and 14th when Earth runs through a stream of debris from a strange object that some astronomers are calling a "rock comet."------


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCPRyFrHkGk

Cheers :D
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Re: NASA asks "What is Creating Gullies on Vesta?"

Unread postby GaryN » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:02 pm

"On Earth, similar features - seen at places like Meteor Crater in Arizona -- are carved by liquid water," said Christopher Russell, Dawn's principal investigator, also based at UCLA. "On Mars, there is still a debate about what has caused them. We need to analyze the Vesta gullies very carefully before definitively specifying their source."


They can't suggest electrical causes, even though there are no reasonable alternatives. To admit one small feature was electrical would mean they'd have to consider electricity/plasma for all the larger features too, on all the solar system bodies large and small. This is kind of like my experience with the rivers and creeks, that water or wind does not make any mechanical sense, but I have had no answers, let alone opinions, from the 'big boys' about how they could have formed. I really think we have them 'on the ropes' now, but doubt any of this will make mainstream news anytime soon, or maybe ever.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: NASA asks "What is Creating Gullies on Vesta?"

Unread postby 4realScience » Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:13 pm

Ha Ha!

NASA is caught! No way to get water erosion on this little rock. And they won't say electrical only "other theories". They are caught.
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Re: Asteroids

Unread postby GaryN » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:21 pm

Asteroid Vesta more like Earth than realized, study shows
Image
The new study, by a trio of European scientists, is based on an examination of a meteorite called NWA 5480 that is thought to have been carved out of Vesta's mantle by an impact with another asteroid. The meteorite, called a diogenite, was found in northwest Africa, and it is part of a family of space rocks that are linked to the asteroid by their chemical and isotopic composition. Unlike other studies, which focus on what a meteorite is made of, Tkalcec's team concentrated on how the stuff inside this meteorite was arranged. If Vesta had been active beneath the surface, the mineral structure of this sample would show some clues, they thought.
The researchers used a technique called electron backscatter diffraction, which involves bouncing electrons off a crystal to reveal the shape of its structure. They focused on a mineral in the meteorite called olivine. Instead of looking like the crystals had piled up regularly on top of one another, they found that the crystal lattice looked deformed. Something unexpected had happened to these rocks.
So the researchers compared the meteorite's internal structure with those of rocks on Earth. They found one type with a remarkably similar pattern: igneous rocks formed by forces in Earth's mantle.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-01-asteroid-v ... h.html#jCp

Another assumption to back up the Standard model. If the rocks from Earth were formed near the surface by external forces rather than deep down, then Earth is like Vesta, and not Vesta like Earth.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Asteroids

Unread postby webolife » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:18 pm

I'm behind a bit in reading these posts, but now have some questions:

Is the co-orbital asteroid 2002 AA29 moving in a helical pattern as shown by the scientopia diagram, or a hypercycloid as the orbitsimulator model shows? The helical axis might have to be explained with a magnetic field model, but the hypercycloid [along with the orbital radius shift] would be more easily explained using LaGrangian gravitational manifolds. Does anyone know for sure which model is most accurate? I'm favoring the LaGrangian option currently, but if the orbit is indeed helical, that raises additional challenges for the magnetic field model.

Are Vesta's surface features primordial [ie. resulting from forces which acted to created the asteroid from a Phaethon-like parent body], or transitional [ie. resulting fromo forces which have acted upon the surface since the time of its creation]? And how would we go about distinguishing between these options? It would seem to me there are some of both feature types present.
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Re: Asteroids

Unread postby D_Archer » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:03 am

Webolife,

I would venture that the larger features where created at birth and the smaller features over time, the fine dust from later interaction (smoothing). I think asteroids at birth are hot and after cooling become really sharp rocky formations.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: Asteroids

Unread postby webolife » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:15 pm

That's a natural premise. Of course "smoothing" [or could this also be "roughing up"?] must refer primarily to some kind of electrical "erosion", but then could this not occur in conjunction with the initial [electrical?] formation process, possibly even preceding it in some cases?
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Re: Asteroids

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:39 am

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_DA14

Calculations show that on February 15, 2013, the distance between the asteroid and Earth will be 0.000228 AU (34,100 km; 21,200 mi).


-----------


So the asteroid 2012 DA14 is passing within the outerlimits of the ionosphere (max 16 earth radii).
My question to the forum; Are we going to see some electrical interaction between the asteroid and the ionosphere?
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
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