The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Has science taken a wrong turn? If so, what corrections are needed? Chronicles of scientific misbehavior. The role of heretic-pioneers and forbidden questions in the sciences. Is peer review working? The perverse "consensus of leading scientists." Good public relations versus good science.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby StevenO » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:12 am

Another very entertaining article from Miles Mathis:

THE LARGE HADRON COLLIDER
the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Image

Abstract: I show that the LHC, string theory, and everything connected to postmodern physics is fatally corrupt.

The Large Hadron Collider at CERN in Geneva has had so many setbacks now that top physicists are claiming (seriously) that the project may be witnessing sabotage from the future. The LHC has sat in repair for over 13 months, with no successful tests, and may not be online any time soon. In an article in the London Sunday Times on October 18*, author Jonathan Leake reports that Holger Bech Nielsen and Masao Ninomiya, top theoretical physicists, are each offering “serious” theories, complete with “rigorous” math, to show that the Higgs Boson may be protecting itself from discovery, and doing so from the future via backward causality. Nielsen is one of the fathers of string theory and is one of the top dogs at the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, so his theory is thought to merit a worldwide press release. His status has also protected him, so far, from ridicule. The communications director at CERN, James Gillies, has been forced to disagree with Nielsen and Ninomiya, as one would expect, but he has not disagreed very forcefully. While those who have expressed concern about the safety of the LHC have been ridiculed and attacked personally, Nielsen is countered quietly and modestly, as public relations require. Those who propose that the LHC might trigger some disaster by unleashing unknown forces are called crackpots in the article. But mainstream physicists who propose unknown forces visiting us from the future to sabotage our current experiments are taken seriously and given worldwide soapboxes. It would not surprise me, given the current climate in science, to see continued problems at CERN taken as proof of Nielsen's theory, or to see Nielsen and Ninomiya given a Nobel Prize for their successful prediction of the failure of the LHC. A welcome side-effect of this circus would be the permanent enshrinement of the Higgs Boson. Because the LHC could not invalidate it, physicists would be free to continue to use it indefinitely to prop up all their failed theories and maths.

Brian Cox, a leading researcher at CERN, is even less vehement than Gillies, saying that Nielsen's ideas are “theoretically valid.” Once again, we are witnessing the state of the art in physics. By that, I don't mean that the LHC is state of the art, as in “cutting edge technology.” I mean that this article and these theories and the public reaction to these theories is state of the art. It is state of the art fakery and propaganda and ignorance and hubris. As the smallest of many proofs of this, look again Brian Cox's quote, that Nielsen's ideas are “theoretically valid.” What does that mean, scientifically? Does it mean anything? No. Ideas cannot be “theoretically” valid, unless you mean by that, “ideas that may or may not be valid.” If that is what Cox means by his sloppy words, I agree with him. It is true that Nielsen's ideas may or may not be valid, but it is also true that my theory (just made up) that bosons are really little clown noses may or may not be valid. As a matter of logic, anything may or may not be valid. Defined this way, Cox's statement has no content.

On the other hand, if Cox means that Nielsen's ideas are valid as a theory, then he is just as muddleheaded. A new theory, as a theory, is neither valid nor invalid, by definition. A theory must be validated by experiment, and we have seen no experiment prepared to validate or invalidate Nielsen's theory. A new theory is not valid or invalid, it is simply theoretical. Cox doesn't even know what a theory is, what validation is, or how to talk about ideas.

The problem is that mainstream physics has degenerated to such a state that no one has the ground to refute anything or anyone. The ground itself has been swept away and we have nothing left but status. This is the real reason that Nielsen can theorize such things without serious rebuttal. The article says that physicists are shying away from Nielsen because his theory requires “some sort of science-based rebuttal.” But when science has reached this level of slop, how can there be such a rebuttal? How can you expect a “science-based” rebuttal to non-science or fantasy? What the author really means (if he just knew it) is that Nielsens's theory, being based on the math of string theory, requires a string-theory rebuttal. The only rebuttal top theorists would accept is a rebuttal couched in their own mathematical terms. But this is like young-earth creationists demanding that all rebuttals be couched in the terms of the Bible. It is a guarantee of a closed discussion and a continuance of a hermeneutic illogic.

Cox says that “because we don't have a quantum theory of gravity, we haven't proved that sending information into the past is impossible.” He considers that to be support for Nielsen. But, again, it is an unscientific statement. Science is not the task of “proving something is impossible.” In fact, you can't prove that something is impossible, except by logical contradiction. You can't prove that something is impossible via an experiment or via a theory. It would require an infinite number of experiments or a perfect theory, and both are impossible. The task of physics is the testing of testable theories.

<...>

Continued here: The Large Hadron Collider: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics
First, God decided he was lonely. Then it got out of hand. Now we have this mess called life...
The past is out of date. Start living your future. Align with your dreams. Now execute.
User avatar
StevenO
 
Posts: 894
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:21 am

I saw that article the other day....Higgs Boson is preventing its own finding, via time travel.
OMG, THEY ARE RETARDED.
:o :shock: :roll:
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
User avatar
junglelord
 
Posts: 3693
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:39 am
Location: Canada

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby nick c » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:55 pm

Brian Cox, a leading researcher at CERN, is even less vehement than Gillies, saying that Nielsen's ideas are “theoretically valid.”


And I used to think that "the dog ate my homework" was a pretty good excuse :shock:

nick c
User avatar
nick c
Moderator
 
Posts: 1813
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby kc0itf » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:28 pm

When "space aliens did it" seems like a more reasonable answer, you know something is definitely WRONG!!!
kc0itf
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby bdw000 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:59 am

Thanks SevenO for remeinding me that Miles Mathis is mandatory reading.
bdw000
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:06 pm

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:40 pm

I don't agree with all of Miles' work per se, but I certainly agree with his diagnosis of the problems plaguing (virally, in fact) modern day *cough* Science.


Mike H.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
mharratsc
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Maplewood, MN

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby Farsight » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:10 am

Time travel is science fiction. I am appalled that so-called serious scientists are peddling such snake-oil woo.
Farsight
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:39 pm

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby jjohnson » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:54 am

Farsight: It appears to be a sign of the times, doesn't it? I'm appalled at the mainstream's general dismissal of EU/PC ideas in general, which is so unrepresentative of the scientific attitude. It's hard to see how I can call scientists lazy, but the attitude of "I don't want to take the time to even go through your ideas and consider their merits, if any, based on critical review" seems to be arrogance, laziness, overconfidence, overwork, disinterest or fear. None of those is a good adjective for scientists or other life forms.

Re science fiction (one of my favorite kinds of reading because we all need to suspend disbelief once in a while, and relax) - I think fast flight between stars is science fiction, too, but it makes good science fiction because we love to believe that we are really mobile and can build fast toys. In considering really seriously the scale of just our local part of the universe in recent times, I've come to realize that without some completely different physical principals, from those we believe we know now,becoming exposed, we ain't going very far, very fast, with relation to even the nearest stars.

I really liked your cogent, clear response in another post this morning regarding fields and parallel relativistic electron beams. Excellent imagery. Grasping fields mentally is one of the harder things to do for many of us.
jjohnson
 
Posts: 1135
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:24 am
Location: Thurston County WA

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby junglelord » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:43 pm

The majority of the public is in a daze.
http://www.spywitnessnews.org/content/f ... rsion-2009
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
User avatar
junglelord
 
Posts: 3693
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:39 am
Location: Canada

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby QuestForMore » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:16 am

Out of all the ridicule alternative theories, ideas, medicine ETC get this has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard from mainstream science. I mean this can be really bad, wonder how the media is going to spin this?
I was once a close minded fellow, but now I am starting to awaken to the hypocrisy of science, the media education system that once brainwashed me to conform by my own thoughts. Hahahahaha science is at a bad state.....sad thing is so is this generations understanding of science and the junk "knowledge" they get from the TV and radio.
QuestForMore
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:44 pm

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby StefanR » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:13 am

A peckish bird briefly knocked out part of the world's biggest atom smasher by causing a chain reaction with a piece of bread, the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) said Monday.
Image
Bits of a French loaf dropped on an external electrical power supply caused a short circuit last week, triggering failsafe devices that shut down part of the cooling system of the giant experiment to probe the secrets of the universe, CERN said.

http://www.physorg.com/news176969873.html
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
User avatar
StefanR
 
Posts: 1337
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby longcircuit » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:04 pm

The Standard Model is on full display here.
See especially the twenty-fourth paragraph:
[...]“If you find the Higgs and nothing else,” he told Gillies recently, that would be the worst possible result, “because then we have a complete Standard Model—which we know is wrong in fundamental ways.” It would be as if we’d known for the last century that Newton’s picture of the universe was flawed and incomplete, but never had Einstein or his followers to move us along to a bigger, more correct picture. On the other hand, Ellis says, “it would be exciting if we proved Higgs didn’t exist. I’d love to be shocked and surprised.” That is, he’d rather have the last several decades of conventional wisdom in physics upended than have the next several decades rendered inconclusive, impotent, and boring.

longcircuit
longcircuit
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:59 am

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby david barclay » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:27 pm

This is dumber than dumb...it's just plain silly talk.

It would save everyone concerned a great deal of trouble if they just said they didn't know what the problem was, because that I can believe.
david barclay
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:59 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby jackdj901 » Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:25 pm

"there are no 'if's' in classical physics" David Deutsch. If this is true we occupy a determined universe. "the past absolutely determines the future." David Deutsch. Accordingly choice doesn,t exist;choice is only a delusion to salve the ego in order to ensure reproductive behavior which results occassionally in reproduction. In this regard the creation of the LHC (as well as all things) was determined; it had to be. If this is true the LHC (as well as every other thing) has gone through a process which was set in motion at the very beginning of creation (or before the beginning of creation). The ramifications of these ideas are more strange than time travel. Indeed it would, in a way, mean that our universe is traveling in what we refer to as time and space toward a determined destination. So it seems.

What does Thornhill/Smith think of the idea of a determined multiuniverse?
jackdj901
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: The LHC: the beginning of the end for postmodern physics

Unread postby nick c » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:51 pm

What does Thornhill/Smith think of the idea of a determined multiuniverse?
The word "Multiuniverse" is an oxymoron. Universe means everything that exists. You cannot have more than one.

Nick
User avatar
nick c
Moderator
 
Posts: 1813
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Next

Return to The Future of Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest