-Divinityaltonhare wrote:-DivinitySo, you are or you aren't claiming the existence of aether (the connecting backwash between all things)?
>>Not sure what you mean by "backwash". However, I do propose that every entity in our world (and possibly the universe) is physically connected to every other entity.>>
Yes but how? If you don't believe in the presence of energised plasma/aether, WHAT connects them?
-DivinityThe above is a very long-winded way of saying that we are all connected and it's a Universe of Intelligent Consciousness.
>>I apologize for being long-winded but I strive to be very explicit and comprehensible. Someone who is not familiar or comfortable with the idea of everything being interconnected would not pick up on this as quickly as you, and I may not seem long-winded to him/her.
"Universe" is a shorthand for a listing of everything that exists (everything). The universe cannot have consciousness because consciousness is a characteristic of a single entity. For instance, a lion is alive but is a pride alive? In casual conversation you may say that a pride is alive but this is incorrect. A pride simply refers to a group of lions, it is a convenient shorthand. Instead of saying "The male lion on the cliff, the female lion next to him, the cub in the cave, the other cub in the cave... and on and on" you just say "the pride of lions". It is the individual lions themselves are actually alive. The word pride is simply a designation we place on a certain number of lions at a certain proximity! The lions are *entities*. A pride is not an entity itself but a concept, a relationship among entities. Likewise "universe" is a group of things, specifically a group of *everything*. It is a convenient shorthand term. Some of the individuals in the group may be alive, or may be conscious, etc. but the concept "group of X" cannot be ascribed these characteristics. Only the individual X's themselves have characteristics.
Does that make sense?>>
Can you say the same for bees and ants? I disagree. A pride IS an entity with a unique consciousness, like every other group. That group has a subconscious purpose - generally to maintain its status quo in the pack, to survive, to look after the 'whole', to procreate/stay healthy, etc. They do this with mutual co-operation and invisible communication (via the DNA). If you check out Complex Systems you will see this is the nature of flocks of birds. When one changes, they all change; when one learns, they all do.
I would go as far as to profess that the 'everything else in the universe' which is not you, is your God. Forget your logical mind for a moment. When you visit Los Angeles or Paris, do you not 'feel' the difference in the ambience/atmosphere/people? No different to working in an office, the environment of one will be totally unique to another because of the people or group inhabiting it. Is the group happy? Your senses are so fine-tuned, you will detect this immediately even if you don't think to ask the question. Can you smell fear? Yes, because it's a basic component of your survival instinct.
-DivinityAnd if so, where do you see the role of Love? As far as I am aware, love is the glue which holds the universe together...it is the life-support mechanism.
>>Love is a dynamic relationship among entities such as humans or lions. It is my proposal that continuous discrete interconnected entities comprise the universe. One fits in the next which fits in the next and so on. So they each maintain their identity but are inseparable. The analogy to Love is perfect, the constituents of the universe are inseparable yet still retain their individual identities, just like the individual players involved in Love.>>
No, they aren't discrete. That's the whole point of inter-connectedness - we have a process of constant symbiosis in this universe. Although we appear to be separate, no distance can ever keep us apart from each other. It's the butterfly effect - when one is affected, we are all affected, at an energetic level. Just as we connect/affect (to) the weather and other aspects of our environment extending out way beyond the galaxy. The system is beautiful because it's consistent (as above so below). And because of that, we can obtain clues to what occurs at microscopic and macroscopic levels. Just as plasma scales up and down, so do universal principles.
Love is not restricted to individuals. Love is the whole dynamic. Love, intelligence, communication, connection...but I cannot prove this to you.
-DivinityThe Universe is energy which is information and what provides that information is consciousness (at the non-material structure stage) which is fundamentally, love.
>>Energy is an ambiguous term because it means different things to many different people. What do you mean by "non-material". To me this term means "nothing", so I have trouble commenting.>>
Energy, IMO, is the manifestation of information but at a more 3D level of understanding, it's that which makes things move. It manifests as sound, light, electricity, magnetism, electro-magnetism, matter, etc. Non-material structures are put in place in order to produce a 'thing' or a situation. The thought was present before 'the word', if you like. For more information on non-material structures, please read Junglelord's Tensegrity thread....Tensegrity Creates Matter.
-DivinityVoila, something out of nothing is created.
>>Something cannot come from nothing anymore than a tree can be both above and below the ground. Identity means that A is A. To try to state otherwise results in a self-contradiction.>>
LOL, I knew you would say that! So, where do planets come from? Where do situations spring from? And synchronicities?
(A tree is above and below the ground..what do you mean?).
-DivinityThere is nothing in existence which doesn't have a purpose, even if it's to interconnect only with another thing to support it or hold it in place (it's called tensegrity or symbiosis).
>>Everything that exists has a single identity and acts in accordance with that identity. Tensegrity is the science of building structures and looks at macroscopic behaviors of materials. Fundamentally there are continuous objects (those that are not made of smaller parts) and they have a particular shape. That particular shape defines their identity and they can only interact with other entities in accordance with that one identity.>>
Structure and function can't be separated - is that what you mean? Tensegrity is the process of push/pull which brings things into existence and maintains the balance between Everything, as I understand it. I believe it's tensegrity, not gravity, which keeps the planets in correct alignment, no different to the relationships between organs and other parts of the body.
Would you agree or is this too simplistic?
>>I agree and disagree, as per my discussion above. I think you need to be careful about reifying concepts. There is a difference between a tree and a forest. A tree is an object, an entity. A forest is a concept, a relationship among entities. Concepts are for convenience, we use them as a shorthand. It is tempting to convert concepts into entities in our speech because it decreases verbage, but we must keep in mind it is the entities themselves that truly matter, because only the entities themselves can live, love, wave, fall, jump, etc. When you see a "forest swaying from a distance" it is each tree that is swaying. You say forest because it is easier than saying "The tree at (0,0) is swaying and the tree at (1,0) is swaying....">>
A forest is not a concept, it's a collective noun for a group of trees. No..we fundamentally disagree. No tree is an island. No man is an island. We are all part of the collective and the collective has a consciousness.
I guess we agree to disagree?