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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Are the planets growing?

Are the planets growing?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby rickard » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:33 pm

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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:20 pm

Up thread I addressed the fatal flaws of Flat Earth Theory. Now I found this video showing what I was talking about.

Is Earth Actually Flat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNqNnUJVcVs

The video only falls apart at about 7:00 minutes when he brings in the nonsense of time dilation shrinking distance. To get so much right, then trip up at the end. Oh, well.

As I said up thread, I'm not interested in the conspiracy theory Flat Earth people use to hide the fact that it doesn't work, so let's not go there. HA!
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby rickard » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:16 am

Flat Earth Theory has followers all around the globe 8-)
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Trying to add up the clues - connecting the dots

Unread postby RoatanBill » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:22 pm

EU theory upsets lots of people. Expanding earth and earth crust displacement also illicit strong feelings. The problem with the very existence of the dinosaurs, some with their long necks and the structural problems that entails given today's gravity adds another layer of doubt about what consensus science has to offer.

The iridium layer is a fact. It was supposedly deposited as the result of one event, and consequently defines the surface of the earth at that time. It has occurred to me to ask where did all the material above that layer come from? I specifically asked that of an AskAGeologist web site and never got a straight answer in multiple emails.

Energy and matter are theoretically interchangeable. EU theory has energy entering earth continuously via the poles and I'm wondering if that energy isn't responsible for creating the matter that is expanding the earth imperceptibly on the human time scale. Could new matter be expanding the earth and consequently could rewinding the clock logically deduce a smaller earth where gravity was a fraction of today's value to allow the dinosaurs size to be reasonable under their gravity conditions? Could a slowly accreting earth cause an instability that would be rectified by earth crust displacement that would sling the mass towards the equator and help explain ancient flash frozen beasts with warm weather plant material in their stomachs?
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby perpetual motion » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:32 pm

'energy that is entering earth continuously via the poles is responsible for creating the matter that is expanding the earth imperceptibly on the human time scale'. Could new matter be expanding the earth? I believe that this could very well be a logical answer. What is flying around in space is the very
foundation of everything that is.
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby Aardwolf » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:45 am

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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:48 am

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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:16 pm

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Plate Tectonics sinking?

Unread postby moonkoon » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:42 am

This month's edition of the AAPG (American Association of Petroleum Geologists) magazine, 'Explorer', has a by geologist Keith James about the various anomalies and shortcomings that dog the plate tectonics model.

A couple of the talking points, first, metamorphics that don't appear to have been buried.

... Blueschists (high-pressure/low-temperature metamorphism) are seen as classic indicators of fossil subduction zones, involving descent of material to 40–80 kilometers over millions of years, metamorphism, and then unexplained resurrection. However, some radiometric data suggest metamorphism only slightly younger than predecessor rocks. There are no blueschists in the Central American or Lesser Antilles subduction arcs. Along the north and south Caribbean margins, metamorphism increases and high-pressure/low-temperature rocks occur close to strike-slip faults [mainly horizontal displacement]. Some are even interbedded with sedimentary equivalents.

Next, some numerical curiousities :-)

... The reconstructions use constant size Earth. There are 75,000 kilometers of “spreading” ridges and only 30,500 kilometers of trenches and 9,000 kilometers of collision zones. Production of more crust than consumption implies that the Earth is expanding.
Space-geodetic data show that the solid Earth expanded about 0.24 millimeters annually in recent decades.
Growth increments on fossil corals and brachiopods show that days per year declined from 424 in the Middle Cambrian to 365 today – like a pirouetting ballerina extending her arms, Earth grows and slows. How?


He suggests that volume increase via serpentinization (where the orginal rock interacts with water which changes the rock's crystal structure and volume) may produce radial growth.

... Serpentinization of shallow mantle peridotite results in up to 40-percent volume increase and release of heat. Is this responsible for elevation of MORs, with their black smokers? Does radial growth contribute to continental separation, extension and subsidence?

And lastly, his prognosis for Plate Tectonics,

... Meanwhile, published PT teaching is complacent. It should adapt to emerging data, include multiple working hypotheses and enable students to think and choose. If not, the writing in stone might eventually read “RIP.”
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:32 pm

That is a fun article, starting on page 18, "Not Written in Stone". I need to read it again, figuring out the geological definitions that they use.

It's fun, like you say, that he uses expansion based on "(where the original rock interacts with water which changes the rock's crystal structure and volume)". Yet we have shown that gravity has increased over time from adding new material to the Earth.

What I have fun with is he is expecting criticism from the conservatives because he is pointing out "subsided continents" that used to connect the continents -- that you should drill for oil there. HA!

The whole magazine is a wonderful example of the industry.

Thanks...
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Re: Plate Tectonics sinking?

Unread postby ja7tdo » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:56 pm

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Serpentinization is a source of hydrogen

Unread postby moonkoon » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:33 am

Serpentinization is a source of hydrogen which in turn can reduce any carbonate or carbon dioxide in the vicinity to methane (the reduced carbon combines with the hydrogen). Mantle type rocks such as basalt to inclusions or veins of calcite (a carbonate).

... Serpentinization of ultramafic rocks occurring in mid-ocean ridges, forearc systems, and terrestrial ophiolites (i.e., obducted/accretionary oceanic crust) on Earth is a geochemical and water-dependent process that results in a variety of gas and fluid species. Molecular hydrogen (H2) is the most influential and relevant species in the abiotic synthesis of organic compounds produced as a consequence of serpentinization due to its ability to reduce carbon (... carbonate etc.) and produce methane (CH4) and a wide variety of other organic compounds.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4523005/

This says nothing about the ultimate source of the hydrogen (or the water for that matter) so it can't be taken as a falsification of a hydritic core model.

On a more general note, limited radial expansion via serpentinization might provide a temporary lifeline for P/T but it does not account for the current size of ocean basins which require four or five fold expansion.

Approx 93% of mantle volume is thought to be oxygen. This is the obvious prime candidate for volume increase.

I speculate that the mechanism may be some type of as yet unidentified nuclear conversion process (not the well documented fission process) where iron or silicon transmutes into (mainly) oxygen. It could also imply that our concept of energy may be incomplete.

But that's just me talking through my hat. :-)
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby johnm33 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:48 am

For me the most interesting bit was the thinning and extension of the crust. At the moment i'm thinking we shifted to a more distant orbit which implies a massive sudden drop in the planets velocity and the consequent heating from the conversion of kinetic energy. I'm only a quarter of the way through the topic though.
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:29 am

I guess it's time to repost the Maxlow lecture.

James Maxlow continued Carey's work. This lecture lays out everything up to now. He talks about the fossil record and the geological record. I hate to says this, but what he did is "Science" not opinion, so be sure to watch the complete lecture multiple times.





I have a copy of his original book. He has a new one out. The hardback is over $200, the ebooks are not. IMHO, He priced his ebooks wrong. HA!





BTW, You will notice in the lecture that he mentions Wal Thornhill speaking the day before.
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Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread postby allynh » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:27 pm

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