Speaking of wasting money …

[BeAChooser]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech ... rance.html

World's most powerful MAGNET is ready to be shipped to France for a nuclear fusion project that will replicate reactions in the SUN to create 'the ultimate clean energy source'

See the problem folks? If the mainstream doesn’t understand the workings of the sun, this is money down the drain. Thank you, mainstream astrophysicists. How much money? Well, the article claims ITER is a $24 BILLION dollar effort. That’s likely pie in the sky from ITER. Other sources (for example, https://www.newsweek.com/breakthrough-i ... on-1507324 and https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/1 ... 416a/full/ ) say the projected cost will be $45-65 BILLION dollars (which would be nearly 10 times the original projected cost).

It was Paul Dabbar, DOE undersecretary for science, who provided the $65 billion estimate to the Senate in April of 2018 and he said that $65 billion only covered construction costs, not operating costs. He’s probably right since before Covid ITER was spending about $2 billion a year leading to the $24 billion figure. Spending however will likely go up towards the end of the project (don't all projects do that?) and in May of 2020 ITER admitted (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... d-pandemic ) that because of COVID they were spending over $1 million per day (that's $3.6 billion a year) with the expectations of higher costs and delays in testing.

And note this … with all that cost, ITER is still just a experiment to try and understand the physics enough to produce more power than input. ITER claims that a fusion pilot plant will be constructed in the 2035-2040 timeframe based on the results of this experiment and that the first generation of commercial fusion power plants will be online by 2040 to 2050 (30 years from now). But when have the fusion seekers ever met a schedule? In fact, DEMO is what ITER calls the machine that will be built next and which will lead to a commercial prototype. But DEMO actually describes several machines (all most like bigger than ITER!) built by individual countries. And the people outside ITER are only talking about demonstrating industrial fusion electricity by 2050. Not building commercial power plants as ITER claims. The reality is that the DEMO phase might likely last till 2060 with perhaps four countries building $100 billion dollar plus machines (the race for fusion). Then they have to build the prototypes of the commercial plants … another 10 years and $100 billion, each? ALL based on the assumption that they actually understand the sun.

And by the way, ITER talks about 50 megawatts in / 500 MW out for the ITER experiment … but the 50 MW in is power (electricity) to heat hydrogen and the out is heat … not electricity (power) output. Thus, there’s a lot of deception going on here by ITER … by basically the same crowd who control astrophysics and particle physics. Even though the above lie has been pointed out repeatedly (even as early as 2006), ITER's proponents are still telling the lie to the public. For example, here’s (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-08/ ... e/12114948 ) a 2020 article quoting an expert in the nuclear community saying "ITER consumes 50 megawatts of power to produce this plasma at 150 million degrees, and the goal is to produce 500 megawatts of power from that plasma.” Well it won’t because 500 MW of heat is NOT 500 MW of power. In fact, ITER will NOT even break even despite all claims to the contrary by those who sold a gullible public the program (see http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/iter/IT ... eactor.pdf).

It’s all one huge incestuous boondoggle that YOU will be paying for a long time.

All of it likely based on a misunderstanding about the way the sun works.

[paladin17]

How is this post related to Electric Universe?

[BeAChooser]

How is this post related to Electric Universe?

Because the people pushing gnome astrophysics and gnome particle physics are friends of the the ones pushing fusion in the ITER manner. As I clearly pointed out in my post, the success of ITER assumes they now fundamentally understand the way the sun works (contrary to the way electric universe folks think it does). Agreed? So if they are wrong then this is just more hundreds of billions of dollars wasted because mainstream astrophysics and those that report it are simply pigheaded ... and dishonest. Same as they are being with us. See? I think we need to focus on the costs of what's happening here, paladin. Because they are spending our children's future on a pipe dream. By the way, did you see that the government is reopening the investigation of cold fusion because there is something going there that they can't explain? And how much money is being aimed at understanding that? A pittance compared to the $3-4 billion ITER is spending every year on ITER. And you wonder why there are no resources available to fund research into the electric universe and maybe really help save humanity from itself? Just saying ...

[JP Michael]

I wonder why they need to go to 150 million degrees to 'simulate the sun' when the sun, allegedly, is less. 'Gravity'?

[BeAChooser]

I wonder why they need to go to 150 million degrees to 'simulate the sun' when the sun, allegedly, is less. 'Gravity'?

Actually, yes. ITER needs 150 million degrees (ten times hotter than the center of the sun). Here's their own website explaining this: https://www.iter.org/mag/2/18 . And the reason why is indeed related to gravity. The plasma at the center of the sun (due to gravity) is said to be very dense compared to what they can achieve in the ITER machine … where the plasma is said to be a million times less dense than the air we breath. So because of the low density, to get enough collisions between the atoms that will fuse to reach a Q high enough to be a viable power plant, they need much higher temperatures than the sun.

Even the LPPFusion (Erin Lerner) approach (Dense Plasma Focus or DPF) to commercial fusion power needs temperatures much higher than the sun to break even. In fact, in 2016, their plasma focus device achieved a temperatures of 2.8 BILLION degrees … 200 times the temperature at the center of the sun … 20 times that of ITER! And they've achieved that on a budget of just $7 million dollars as of 2016, rather than the AT LEAST 10000 times that amount the mainstream will soon have spent just on ITER. Their approach is innovative and logically consistent with EU concepts. And the resulting DPF power plants would be small and a tiny fraction of the cost of the plants the mainstream folks are contemplating.

But they need money to realize their dream. Can they get the $50 MILLION in funding they say is necessary to solve the remaining problems (like increasing the density of the plasma) and build a prototype commercial plant? Not from the government. No, all the government's money is going to the behemoth mainstream fusion boondoggles. And I think that's because Lerner is one of the chief proponents of the Electric Universe. What he's doing is a threat them and their scam, no less than his EU theories are a threat to the gnome loving Big Bangers. If he triumphs they lose money, power and prestige ... so they continue to ignore him. Yet I suspect his is one of the most promising concepts out there because it will use the natural behavior (and instabilities) of plasmas to achieve fusion, rather than trying to fight those instabilities with massive containment systems.

Here’s a video that explains DPF, in case you haven't seen it …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4WJdkHmq64&t=18s

Now notice something about the DPF approach. It doesn’t produce radioactive waste, unlike mainstream concepts of fusion. Wouldn’t that be nice? Also notice how they plan to produce electricity from the reactor … without turbines … directly from the ion beam that results from operation of the device and from the x-rays that result. Wouldn't that be nice? And what they propose would result in a SMALL power plant … tiny in comparison to ITER or what’s coming after ITER … yet one that would (they say) produce about 5 MW of electricity. One you could put in your garage or on a ship or a plane. Wouldn't that me nice?

Yet, the mainstream is not at all interested. And the reason is obvious. The mainstream agenda is not about producing electrical power but about maintaining/increasing political power and financial wealth (for the few rather than the many). It's about control over people. Decentralized power of the sort Lerner envisions is a threat to the establishment's concept of the future ... with the government (the elites) having a power monopoly over all of us (both politically, financially, and electrically) ... just like ancient Egypt's rulers had a water monopoly that let them control their masses. THAT is the real reason the mainstream hates the idea of the electric universe and where it might lead. Because it actually gives power back to the people.

Here is Lerner and his staff talking about that very thing (from March of this year):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P7KatR__Po&t=4s

Watch that video and you'll see why I hate the people now in charge of fusion research funding ... just as much as I hate those in charge of astrophysics funding. And many other fundings. They are bunch of liars who agenda is not what they claim. Just saying ...

[BeAChooser]

By the way, here’s the sort of outright LIES mainstream fusion proponents are STILL foisting on the public to justify the hundreds of billions of dollars of the public's money that will be spent on their boondoggle experiments, demos and prototypes over the next few decades *as planned* …

https://www.neimagazine.com/features/fe ... r-8826122/

The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) in southern France seems to be leading the way, with machine assembly works already underway. This will be the world’s largest tokamak nuclear fusion reactor, and capable of producing more power than it consumes. When its first plasma experiments begin in 2025, it will use 50MW of injected heat to produce 500MW of fusion power for long pulses of 400 to 600 seconds. Deuterium–tritium fusion experiments will follow by 2035.

That’s a LIE. It will NOT produce more *power* than it consumes as already mentioned. It will produce 500 MW of heat (IF it works). ITER now admits it will require 300 MW of electricity to produce the 500 MW of heat. They originally claimed it would require only 50 MW of electricity to operate. So they LIED about that. The truth is that ITER could not come close to breaking even in terms of energy (electricity) if they tried to convert that 500 MW of heat back to electricity (so they aren’t going to even try). The truth is that ITER is no where near the Q=10 machine that they claimed in order to sell the program. in other words, they lied about that. And now, since they’ve been caught in the lie, they obfuscate when asked about Q. As pointed out in the New Energy Times article I linked previously, now “They say that the total input power and total output power rates for the reactor are irrelevant. Rather, they say, the reactor is designed to create fusion reactions that produce ten times the thermal power used to heat the fuel. That's right. But they told the public for three decades that ITER would produce, for example, the equivalent of a small, commercial, electricity-producing power plant – from a rate of only 50 MW input power, as shown in this log (see http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/iter/IT ... uses.shtml)." And as that link proves, that lie was promulgated scores and scores of times by the ITER proponents in every venue you can name. And just like in the mainstream astrophysics arena … the fusion mainstreamers had much to gain by lying. BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars converted to expensive homes, cars, vacations, educations for their children, retirement plans. etc. etc etc … all paid for by YOU.

Now, the linked article at the top of this post also states

As part of its net zero carbon emissions by 2050 goal, the UK government has also announced that it is looking for a 100 hectare site to build the world’s first prototype nuclear fusion power plant, and hopes to start construction by 2030. The Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production (STEP) project, as it is known, is being overseen by the UK Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA), and aims to have an operational facility by 2040.

First, notice that the mainstream fusion proponents are linking their effort to another scam designed to enrich the elite and give the power (not electrical) over people. The carbon claims of climate change. That too is a total scam. It was designed to put billions of dollars into the pockets of a few leftists. The British fusion proponents are engaging in more pie the sky spending in a separate multi billion dollar fusion *experiment* that isn’t even going to wait for the ITER results before supposedly becoming operational. So why did they need ITER in the first place? Hmmmmm? And to sell this program, the British fusionists claim their STEP *plant* will produce a net energy gain of 100MW. But that’s probably just meaningless parsing of words like the ITER crowd did. I assert this because I’ve found NO details as to the amount of electricity that will used versus the amount of electricity produced by STEP. In fact, details about the machine and program are VERY sketchy and very vague. After all, they are at the very beginning of the design process. And this article on STEP from 2020 (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12 ... er-station ) even states that it will only generate “50 megawatts of fusion power”. So the numbers are VERY loose-goosey. The truth is that you know all these programs are a scam when the *urgent* need for them is being sold using CO2 induced global warming (another scam) as the boogyman. Just as in the caae of astrophysics, there are other objectives than what’s stated … namely making money that can be converted to “expensive homes, cars, vacations, educations for children, retirement plans. etc. etc. etc.” for those participating in the scam. And giving them political power over YOU.

[JP Michael]

Cheers. I haven't followed much of Lerner, although I was already aware of his DPF using proton-boron 11 fusion to generate net current.

The rest is mostly politics, as you say.

[D_Archer]

i guess "dense" plasma is a lie...

ps. the money is not wasted it goes straight into the coffers of the richest people of the world.. it is just another way to syphon money from unwashed masses.

Regards,
Daniel

[BeAChooser]

i guess "dense" plasma is a lie..

Well at least Lerner isn't trying to suppress the ITER folks. In contrast, Dr. Richard Seimon, Fusion Energy Science Program Manager at Los Alamos, demanded that Dr. Hank Oona, one of the physicists involved in Lerner's work, dissociate himself from comparisons that showed the DPP results to be superior in key respects to those of the tokamak. Seimon also reportedly pressured Dr. Bruce Freeman, another physicist and co-author of a paper with Lerner describing DPP, to advocate the removal of all tokamak comparisons from the paper. "Both of my colleagues in this research have been threatened with losing their jobs if they don’t distance themselves from comparisons with the tokamak" says Lerner. Sounds like the mainstream might be worried that their effort can't stand on it's own merits.

[BeAChooser]

Here’s another great example of the dishonesty the fusion industry and mainstream media are using to sell their *product* …

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58252784

US lab stands on threshold of key nuclear fusion goal

By Paul Rincon

Science editor, BBC News website

A US science institute is on the verge of achieving a longstanding goal in nuclear fusion research.

The National Ignition Facility uses a powerful laser to heat and compress hydrogen fuel, initiating fusion.

An experiment suggests the goal of "ignition", where the energy released by fusion exceeds that delivered by the laser, is now within touching distance.

… snip …

In a process called inertial confinement fusion, 192 beams from NIF's laser - the highest-energy example in the world - are directed towards a peppercorn-sized capsule containing deuterium and tritium, which are different forms of the element hydrogen.

… snip …

An experiment carried out on 8 August yielded 1.35 megajoules (MJ) of energy - around 70% of the laser energy delivered to the fuel capsule. Reaching ignition means getting a fusion yield that's greater than the 1.9 MJ put in by the laser.

"This is a huge advance for fusion and for the entire fusion community," Debbie Callahan, a physicist at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, which hosts NIF, told BBC News.

… snip …

"The pace of improvement in energy output has been rapid, suggesting we may soon reach more energy milestones, such as exceeding the energy input from the lasers used to kick-start the process," said Prof Jeremy Chittenden, co-director of the Centre for Inertial Fusion Studies at Imperial College London.

The lie, of course, is that they completely ignore the energy lost in producing the electricity used by the lasers and the energy that would be lost in converting the heated plasma back to usable electricity. It’s the same lie the ITER folks used to promote their trillion dollar scam. The people running the world now have no ethics. They will spout lie after lie just to keep us energy slaves and keep the money spigots for their homes, cars, vacations, retirement plans, children's educations, etc etc etc ... open.

[BeAChooser]

Here’s the mainstream <moderator edit> selling you their fusion agenda …

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/money/news/do ... ar-AAOuYow

Does a future exist with nuclear fusion?

… snip …

globally, annual electricity consumption now stands at approximately 23 trillion kilowatt hours. With that come a large amount of carbon emissions – about one billion tonnes annually.

… snip …

Cop26, the UN conference on climate change, is less than two months away and solutions to ensure our existence on this planet are needed. Fast.

Enter nuclear fusion.

… snip …

important progress has been reported by the National Ignition Facility in California and separately by MIT. NIF ignited a hydrogen fuel pellet to the point of being self-sustaining, for a fraction of a billionth of a second. MIT meanwhile has produced the world’s most powerful magnet to keep the super-hot plasma pellet in position.

Indeed, the science is very hard, the engineering nigh impossible, but the rewards are potentially enormous: carbon-less almost free energy for all – if commercialisation and distribution are worked out. And although energy is abundant in this part of the world, it will still make environmental sense to explore the opportunities.

… snip …

Eagle-eyed historians will immediately note the context: fusion science is not exactly new. Indeed, the early concepts date as far back as the 1950s. … snip … Given the complexity of the task, fusion had consistently and frustratingly been referred to as always being 30 years away. And that has been true throughout. … snip … It may well be that the global efforts are chipping away at the 30-year future and it no longer represents moving goal posts.

To get humanity there will take three important steps.

First, investment – both public and private money – some tens of billions of dollars. As a commentator in an online forum put it: “Fusion research should be on humanity’s top five priority list, and it’s cheap: it’s five days of the US Federal Reserve’s Quantitative easing. We can afford it.” One can challenge the exact amounts but the affordability and urgency in the current context should be clear.

Don’t be fooled … it’s not tens of billions of dollars they still need. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, they are talking about four countries building $100 billion dollar machines just to DEMO their fusion concept. And then beyond that they’ll need hundreds of billions more to actually build the power plants they envision now.

If the funding is in place, the second step, the hard science, will also eventually be overcome. For decades fusion has been progressing steadily and slowly as each technical challenge is addressed. The inflection point reached now with ignition is critical and will likely accelerate some of the other approaches to fusion.

Don’t be fooled … there is little *hard* science involved in what they are now doing. They have ASSUMED they understand how the sun works, when they clearly don’t. They have ignored, for decades, any observation that contradicts their beliefs. And they’ve lied to the public about what they *know*, just like they’ve lied about the role of CO2 in global warming/climate change, dark matter/dark energy, and politics.

And so, the third step is time. For years, fusion had been referred to as the technology of the future that never came. It has been 70 years in the making. Fusion deserves our patience.

Yes, they need LOTS and LOTS of PATIENCE, on your part, because they’ve got mortgages to pay, children to educate, vacations to take, and retirements to insure ... for all the elite behind this program. They want as LITTLE critical THOUGHT on your part, as possible, so they can realize *that* objective, before you wake up to the scam they’ve been pushing for decades and decades. Pretty much the same sort of scam the same group of people using the same media have been pushing in countless fields for countless years.

We are entering the age of CONTROL, folks, not freedom. Everything is about making sure that YOU stay controlled. And the #1 job of mainstream media now is to promote and ensure that control. Which is why you aren’t being told half the truth about topic after topic, and event after event. At least we can still dig to find that truth but the time is coming when they plan to eliminate that ability. The first steps in doing that are occurring as we speak. All they need do is to stay in control long enough to set up a STATE energy and information monopoly, and they will be able to make you believe and do ANYTHING, just like the ancient Egyptian leaders managed to do ... for 3000 years. Just saying.

[BeAChooser]

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/ch ... ar-AAOVXfE

China’s ‘artificial sun’ tipped to provide electricity in 10 years if Beijing backs it

Stephen Chen

China could produce electricity from a proposed "artificial sun" in a decade if the project wins final approval from the government, according to one of the lead scientists.

Construction of a nuclear fusion reactor could be completed by the early 2030s if Beijing gives its backing, Professor Song Yuntao told local media at a carbon control conference in Beijing on Sunday.

… snip …

The Chinese government plans to start mass construction of fusion energy plants before 2060 - the deadline to meet the country's carbon neutrality goal.

… snip …

In its first stage of operation, it is designed to produce a stable power output - needed to generate electricity - of 200 megawatts, about that of a small coal-fired power plant.

So tell me … does anyone here believe this claim of providing “electricity in 10 years”? Or did you catch the likely slight of hand when they say they’ll “produce” “OUTPUT POWER” “needed to GENERATE electricity” “of 200 megawatts”? Looks like the Chinese fusion *scientists* may be lying to their leaders and their public just like our *scientists* were lying to our leaders and public to get ITER funded. Of course, in China that lying could cost you your life … unless it turns out the people benefiting from all that spending are related to top communist party leaders I suppose.

But if you do believe the claim, then explain why it will then take another 30 years after 2030 before the Chinese government can mass produce fusion energy plants? Seems to me, the hard part … the part that the fusion community has already spent the last 70 years trying unsuccessfully to do … would already have been done. I can't imagine why it would take another 30 years just to start mass producing power plants. Hmmmmm?

Also, I hope you all caught what's motivating this urgency ... the bogus claims of AGWalarmists.

You see, Climate Change alarmism is about CONTROL, too. Just saying ...

[BeAChooser]

Here’s the mainstream media lying to the public again …

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/01/the-22- ... ality.html

ITER, a $22 billion dollar international megaproject in the south of France, is the best-funded fusion endeavor, paid for by the governments of its seven member nations. It hopes to be the first to demonstrate the viability of fusion by generating more energy than it consumes.

Two lies.

First, it’s not a $22 billion dollar project. As pointed out earlier in the thread, Paul Dabbar, DOE undersecretary for science, told the Senate in 2018 (https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/1 ... 416a/full/ ) that construction costs along are $65 billion. And although ITER disputes this figure, the truth is that ITER is currently spending $3 billion to $4 billion per year. In fact, do you know that ITER sold the project in 2006 on a projected cost of under $6 billion dollars? WIth ITER now admitting costs are now FOUR TIMES that estimate, why should we trust their numbers? The US contribution was supposed to be 9% of the total cost. Not long ago, Senator Feinstein said the US contribution would be $4 to $6 billion, making the total cost likely in the $45 to $66 billion dollar range.

Second, it will not produce more energy than it consumes … not if, as already pointed out, you take into account the losses in generating the energy to run it and the losses in converting the heat it produces back into usable energy … i.e., electricity. Lying to the public about science and politics seems to be the norm for the mainstream media these days. Just saying …

[BeAChooser]

Well ... just as the folks running the gnome believing mainstream astrophysics community are brainwashing our youth into believing in their gnomes, the mainstream climate change and fusion communities are doing the same thing. The good folks at ITER, out of sheer self interest, just made a big splash at the 26th Conference of the Parties, COP26 … which if you don’t know, is held each year to promote the agenda of the CO2-is-bad-gnome-believers on the left. At it, ITER announced this …

https://www.iter.org/newsline/-/3687

A NEW ONE-STOP SHOP FOR FUSION EDUCATION MATERIALS

The ITER Organization and a group of global partners has launched INFUSED—the International Fusion Education Initiative. The program curates quality fusion education materials and makes them available to interested students, educators and members of the public.

They did it during the ''Youth and Public Empowerment Day'' at COP26.

Now what you won’t find in what they presented is any mention of the alternatives to mainstream fusion efforts.

That’s because what they are doing is literally too big to allow it to fail due to ... competing ideas.

So lucky us. They’ll continue to waste not billions … but literally trillions of dollars … of our taxpayer dollars on their real-science-is-dead ideas … seeking a Holy Grail premised on false notions about the way the sun works and the sun (and man’s) role in climate. And once again, only one group will likely prosper from all this taxpayer largess ... the folks in control. The folks who get to attend huge, expensive, CO2 creating conferences like this.

Just saying ...

[Brigit]

by BeAChooser » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:39 pm
"A NEW ONE-STOP SHOP FOR FUSION EDUCATION MATERIALS The ITER Organization and a group of global partners has launched INFUSED—the International Fusion Education Initiative. The program curates quality fusion education materials and makes them available to interested students, educators and members of the public."


When we have elections in early November, a curious thing happens, and that is that people put up their gruesome and frightful Holloween decorations at the same time as the political campaign signs with candidates' names go up. This has a worsening psychological effect on me as each year goes by. It all becomes jumbled up in my mind, so that the names on the signs all become scary. The signs begin to say things like, "head on a pike" "Gorey" "Graft" "Torturechamber" "Elect Fraud" "Vote for beTrayal" "Dismember"

I think the same thing happens when I see the titles of bills in Congress, or even new government educational programs like that one. The International Fusion Education Initiative looks like The World Empire Fusion Miseducation and Failure Mandate.

But I suppose I should have a look at it. I might be surprised, you never know.