Thunderbolts Forum v3.0

MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE SAID "Science during and before the Supposed Pandemic".

"The Future of Science
"Has science taken a wrong turn? If so, what corrections are needed? Chronicles of scientific misbehavior. The role of heretic-pioneers and forbidden questions in the sciences. Is peer review working? The perverse "consensus of leading scientists. Good public relations versus good science.""

IS THE SUPPOSED COVID PANDEMIC REAL? WHAT DOES SCIENCE SAY?

WAS COVID 19 GENETICALLY ENGINEERED?

ARE THERE CURES FOR COVID 19? ARE VACCINES LIKELY TO CURE IT?

WHICH INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BENEFITED THE MOST FROM THE SUPPOSED PANDEMIC?

IS IT PROBABLE THAT ANY POWERFUL ORGANIZATIONS INTEND TO PROMOTE GENOCIDE COVERTLY?

HAS THERE BEEN SCIENTIFIC MISBEHAVIOR IN THE SUPPOSED COVID PANDEMIC?

IF SO, WHAT CORRECTIONS ARE NEEDED?

IS IT RIGHT FOR BIG TECH COMPANIES TO POLICE THE INTERNET AND SUPPRESS ALTERNATIVE VIEWS?

IS IT RIGHT FOR ANY GOVERNMENT TO DO THE SAME?

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ARE THERE CURES FOR COVID 19? ARE VACCINES LIKELY TO CURE IT?

James Sloane said in his private Facebook group (copied to http://l00k.createaforum.com/h/health-1 ... -medicine/):
"_There is a [Covid-19] virus and people do get it and some people do die from it just like with the flu or cancers, of which about 95% are due to viral infections that lead to the cancers. ...
_[T]reatments proven in studies [include] hydroxychloroquine, ozone therapy [and] lianhuaqingwen.
_[For lianhuaqingwen see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32205232/]
_Here is a database of over 100 studies on hydroxychloroquine for Covid, most showing positive results: https://c19study.com/. The one major study the media relied on to try and discredit hydroxychloroquine posted in the prestigious journal the Lancet had to be retracted because it was so faulty and the Lancet issued an apology for printing the trash: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020060 ... uine-study
_[W]hy is the only supposed "cure" the lamestream media is focusing on ... a vaccine that we already know will not work [because the virus mutates etc]? Could it be simply that Bill Gates, the same guy who said we need to reduce the world population, has $10 billion invested in to the development of a vaccine...?"

Dr. Tenpenny on Covid Vaccine Extreme Dangers
https://bit.do/Dpop

DR. CARRIE MADEJ on Covid Vaccine Extreme Dangers
https://www.bitchute.com/video/1t64jJZP0Jd2/

Like Sloane above, some doctors and scientists suspect that the Covid vaccines are intended for genocide, because in animal studies these new vaccines have all had disastrous results for the animals they were injected into. For example, see the 2019 study by Liu, Li et al, “Anti-spike IgG antibody causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage responses during acute SARS-CoV infection” at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30830861/

See also World Doctors Alliance (for Covid Truth)
https://worlddoctorsalliance.com/

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IS IT PROBABLE THAT ANY POWERFUL ORGANIZATIONS INTEND TO PROMOTE GENOCIDE COVERTLY?

The widespread belief is that genocide was practiced by the German Nazis against European Jews and others during World War II. That seems hard to prove, but the war itself can be considered a form of genocide. So it's surely possible for that type of genocide to occur.

But what about more covert genocide? As I already stated in my previous post, "Like Sloane above, some doctors and scientists suspect that the Covid vaccines are intended for genocide, because in animal studies these new vaccines have all had disastrous results for the animals they were injected into. For example, see the 2019 study by Liu, Li et al, “Anti-spike IgG antibody causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage responses during acute SARS-CoV infection” at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30830861/

I haven't heard of any studies that show that such mRNA "vaccines" are safe, so, if there are no studies that indicate they're safe, then you have to wonder what these Covid vaccine makers are basing the safety of their vaccines on. And why would they and governments all over the world allow such unproven vaccines to be used and recommended for the public?

Some, like Sloane, mentioned previously, say Bill Gates invested 10 billion in these Covid vaccines, because he wants them to reduce world population. This article, https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKBN29Y20D , says Gates realized that population naturally tapers off when people are healthy, so he invested in order to improve world health.

The 2019 study that indicates extreme dangers from mRNA vaccines is found at PubMed. A search of all studies there relating to "mRNA vaccine" shows there are 1256 studies in all so far. Looking over the first few titles of the articles suggests that many or most of them find positive results from these vaccines, such as for curing cancer etc and maybe even for Covid.

Dr. Tenpenny was interviewed by Alex Jones on the issue of Covid vaccines and she referenced the 2019 article above elsewhere to support her view that the vaccines are intended for genocide. The Miles W Mathis site however has long concluded that Jones is a fear monger supported by government covert ops.

The public at any rate is apparently being manipulated and divided, some being made to fear the Covid virus, and others to fear the vaccine for the virus. The Covid virus apparently was somewhat worse than the normal flu virus, and may be a GMO made in Wuhan, China.

This article, [Covid] Vaccine Deaths and Injuries, shows that the injuries and deaths are quite high and normally the CDC would stop the use of such a vaccine after just a few deaths. So why is it not stopping these vaccines now? I'm sure their excuse is the pandemic, but there has been no real pandemic. The PCR tests were mostly false positives and doctors were told to report many deaths falsely as Covid deaths. At least that's what I've read. I need to find proof of that.

Lloyd wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:11 pm This article, [Covid] Vaccine Deaths and Injuries, shows that the injuries and deaths are quite high and normally the CDC would stop the use of such a vaccine after just a few deaths. So why is it not stopping these vaccines now?

Your link broke. I use this one for vax injury and death data, personally.

Lloyd wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:11 pm I'm sure their excuse is the pandemic, but there has been no real pandemic.

Single best resource: Swiss Policy Research - COVID 19 Facts
See also Where's the Pandemic?

Lloyd wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:11 pm The PCR tests were mostly false positives and doctors were told to report many deaths falsely as Covid deaths. At least that's what I've read. I need to find proof of that.

On PCR/Test Frauds
PCR Tests are Scientifically Meaningless
False Positives in PCR - A Primer
PCR False Positive Pseudo-Epidemic
Lies, Damned Lies and Health Statistics
The Antibody Test Deception
The Trouble with PCR Tests
No Evidence of Asymptomatic Spread: "There were no positive tests amongst 1,174 close contacts of asymptomatic cases."

On Death Report Frauds
US COVID Deaths Fraud
UK COVID Deaths Fraud
UK COVID Death Stats are Wrong
Canada COVID Deaths Fraud
Redefining Death and the Big Lie
How COVID Deaths are Overcounted

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Thanks, JP, for all those links. I forgot to insert a link last time. Here it is.
[Covid] Vaccine Deaths and Injuries: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FCLpbP ... msWS6/view
Your link on that, https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findf ... KfVmflV1M/, shows each case of death, but it doesn't seem to have any summaries of any details, such as the numbers of each age and each sex and how many days after injection etc.

Following are some items from you Single best resource: Swiss Policy Research - COVID 19 Facts: https://swprs.org/covid19-facts/

Masks: There is still little to no scientific evidence for the effectiveness of cloth face masks in the general population, and the introduction of mandatory masks couldn’t contain or slow the epidemic in most countries. If used improperly, masks may increase the risk of infection.

Lockdowns: In contrast to early border controls, lockdowns have had no significant effect on the pandemic. According to the UN, lockdowns may put the livelihood of 1.6 billion people at acute risk and may push an additional 150 million children into poverty.

Vaccines: Real-world studies showed high vaccine effectiveness in people up to 60 years old, but not in people over 80. In some cases, serious adverse events or sudden deaths have been reported after covid vaccinations. Their long-term safety and effectiveness remains unknown.

Virus origin: The origin of the new coronavirus remains unknown, but the best evidence currently points to a covid-like pneumonia incident in a Chinese mine in 2012, whose virus samples were collected, stored and researched by the Virology Institute in Wuhan (WIV).

In an older book by Neil Z. Miller were graphs showing that deaths from certain diseases started to decline, apparently due to improved sanitation, and vaccines were introduced for them some years after they had gone into decline, and the vaccine promoters claimed that the vaccines were responsible for the declining death rate from those diseases. So I've been very skeptical of vaccines since then. And many alternative doctors are as well.

WAS COVID 19 GENETICALLY ENGINEERED?

The virus origin item above would put suspicion on the Wuhan Virology Institute as a place where viruses could be genetically modified. I wonder where one would need to go to get facts on that.

Lloyd wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:34 amFollowing are some items from you Single best resource: Swiss Policy 2 - COVID 19 Facts: https://swprs.org/covid19-facts/

...

Vaccines: Real-world studies showed high vaccine effectiveness in people up to 60 years old, but not in people over 80. In some cases, serious adverse events or sudden deaths have been reported after covid vaccinations. Their long-term safety and effectiveness remains unknown.

This is the only disappointment for the SWPRS website. I find CHD has much better treatment of the non-science that is vaccinology.

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WAS COVID 19 GENETICALLY ENGINEERED?

It didn't take long to find info on genetic engineering of viruses at Wuhan Virology Institute. I did a search via Ecosia.org, which doesn't censor searches like Google does. The following is from GMWatch, which apparently stands for Genetic Modification Watch.

Wuhan and US scientists used undetectable methods of genetic engineering on bat coronaviruses
Published: 20 May 2020
https://gmwatch.org/en/news/latest-news ... onaviruses

Evidence has emerged that researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) in China, working in collaboration with scientists in the USA, have been genetically engineering bat viruses for the past several years to investigate infectivity – using undetectable methods. The WIV is just a few miles from the Chinese city where the COVID-19 pandemic is thought to have originated and is the chief suspect in the possible scenario that the virus emerged from a lab.

The evidence rebuts claims by journalists and some scientists that the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for the current COVID-19 pandemic could not have been genetically engineered because it lacks the “signs” or “signatures” that supposedly would be left behind by genetic engineering techniques.

... Now Dr Richard Ebright, an infectious disease expert at Rutgers University (USA), has alerted the public to evidence that WIV and US-based researchers were genetically engineering bat viruses to investigate their ability to infect humans, using commonly used methods that leave no sign or signature of human manipulation.

Ebright flagged up a scientific paper [https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens ... at.1006698] published in 2017 by WIV scientists, including Shi Zhengli, the virologist leading the research into bat coronaviruses, working in collaboration with Peter Daszak of the US-based EcoHealth Alliance. Funding was shared between Chinese and US institutions, the latter including the US National Institutes of Health and USAID. The researchers report having conducted virus infectivity experiments where genetic material is combined from different varieties of SARS-related coronaviruses to form novel “chimeric” versions. This formed part of their research into what mutations were needed to allow certain bat coronaviruses to bind to the human ACE2 receptor – a key step in the human infectivity of SARS-CoV-2.

The WIV scientists did this, Ebright points out, “using ‘seamless ligation’ procedures that leave no signatures of human manipulation”.

... A group of scientists from the University of North Carolina in the USA, with the WIV’s Shi Zhengli as a collaborator, published a study [https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985] in 2015 describing similar experiments involving chimeric coronaviruses, which were also created using standard undetectable genetic engineering techniques.

... Richard Ebright also flagged up another paper by WIV scientists that raises concerns. In a just-published pre-print, they describe investigating the ability of spike proteins from bat SARS-related CoV (SARSr-CoV), among other coronaviruses, to bind to bat and human ACE2 receptors – in other words, how efficiently they infect humans. Ebright points out that the paper states, "All work with the infectious virus was performed under biosafety level 2 conditions".

... The work ..., however, fall[s] under biosafety level 3, which is for work involving microbes that can cause serious and potentially lethal disease via inhalation. So it seems inexcusable that it was carried out only at the relatively low biosafety level 2, which, as Ebright says, “provides only minimal protections against infection of lab workers”.

WHICH INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BENEFITED THE MOST FROM THE SUPPOSED PANDEMIC?
I guess it's fine to call it a pandemic, since that means "a disease prevalent over a whole country or the world". I was thinking it meant a contagious disease that kills a large percentage of people. Maybe that's called a plague. Anyway, I think it's well-known that the big tech companies have benefited greatly, maybe more than anyone else, from the pandemic. I've read that Bill Gates invested 10 billion dollars in development of vaccines and I reckon governments have used taxpayers' money to buy the vaccines. I don't have direct evidence of those claims yet.

IS IT PROBABLE THAT ANY POWERFUL ORGANIZATIONS INTEND TO PROMOTE GENOCIDE COVERTLY?
Considering that many organizations have been warning of catastrophes from overpopulation for a long time, it seems reasonable that some might want to do some "preventive" pruning in order to avert such imagined catastrophes. Also, it seems that the world is organized rather hierarchically, which seems conducive to such conspiracies at the upper levels of the hierarchy. Look at how easy it was for the governments of the world to cooperate to enforce lockdowns on much of the world economy for the supposed purpose of minimizing contagion. Previously, most countries acted like they were independent and did not cooperate significantly on anything so fully.

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JP said: "I find CHD has much better treatment of the non-science that is vaccinology."

Where's CHD?

Overpopulation is a major problem.
China is hopefully a major solution.
At present theusofa is a major problem.

Lloyd wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:38 pm Where's CHD?

Sorry I was typing on my phone before. Hard to hotlink.

RFK Jr's Children's Health Defense (CHD).

Lloyd wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:34 am In an older book by Neil Z. Miller were graphs showing that deaths from certain diseases started to decline, apparently due to improved sanitation, and vaccines were introduced for them some years after they had gone into decline, and the vaccine promoters claimed that the vaccines were responsible for the declining death rate from those diseases. So I've been very skeptical of vaccines since then. And many alternative doctors are as well..

Besides Neil Z. Miller's book, there are three pivotal essays on this point.

Edward H. Kass, "Infectious Diseases and Social Change," The Journal of Infectious Diseases, 123 no. 1 (Jan., 1971), 110-114.

Edward H. Kass wrote:This decline in rates of certain disorders, correlated roughly with socioeconomic circumstances, is merely the most important happening in the history of the health of man, yet we have only the vaguest and most general notions about how it happened and by what mechanisms socioeconomic improvement and decreased rates of certain diseases run in parallel.

No mention of vaccines!

John B. McKinlay and Sonja M. McKinlay, "The Questionable Contribution of Medical Measures to the Decline of Mortality in the United States in the Twentieth Century," The Milbank Memorial Fund Quarterly. Health and Society, 55 no.3 (Summer, 1977), 405-428.

McKinlay & McKinlay wrote:the introduction of specific medical measures and/or the expansion of medical services are generally not responsible for most of the modern decline in mortality.

Donna L. Hoyert et al., "Annual Summary of Vital Statistics: Trends in the Health of Americans During the 20th Century," Pediatrics 108 (2001), 1241-1255.

Hoyert et al. wrote:vaccination does not account for the impressive declines in mortality seen in the first half of the century...nearly 90% of the decline in infectious disease mortality among US children occurred before 1940, when few antibiotics or vaccine were available.

The above may be complimented with a few recent studies on the health outcomes of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children, demonstrating that the unvaccinated have superior outcomes by far:

Brian S. Hooker and Neil Z. Miller, "Analysis of health outcomes in vaccinated and unvaccinated children: Developmental delays, asthma, ear infections and gastrointestinal disorders," SAGE Open Medicine 8 (May 27, 2020), 2050312120925344.

James Lyons-Weiler and Paul Thomas, "Relative Incidence of Office Visits and Cumulative Rates of Billed Diagnoses Along the Axis of Vaccination," Int. J. Environ. Res. Public Health 17 no. 22 (2020), 8674.

There are some good stats recorded over at the WHALE.to website.

My personal favourite is the Australian vax graphs. Not only did diseases with vaccines markedly decrease in prevalence before mass vaccination campaigns, diseases with no vaccinations whatsoever (Typhoid, Scarlet Fever), also markedly decreased at the same time.

Lastly, two classics from yesteryear. Alfred R. Wallace was one of the chief antagonists of Victorian-England-era mandatory vaccine campaigns. His two books on the subject are very interesting in terms of historical context:

Vaccination Proved Useless and Dangerous from Forty-Five Years of Registration Statistics (London: E.W.Allen, 1889).
Vaccination a Delusion, It's Penal Enforcement a Crime: Proved by the Official Evidence in the Reports of the Royal Commission (London: Swan Sonnenschein & Co., 1898).

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HEALTHCARE EXPERIENCE

JP, what's your experience in the health field? Seems like you have quite a bit.

I followed "Natural Hygiene" from 1977 to 1996. Dr. Herbert Shelton was the main promoter of that. T. C. Fry promoted it after Shelton died. They favored vegan diet etc. I got a nutrition degree from them in 1983 and learned quite a bit of good health info, including anatomy and physiology. I found out the hard way that the vegan diet is not sufficient. So I started reading other alternative doctors. Bruce West was my favorite. Then I liked mercola.com for about ten years. Then a few years ago I found James Sloane on Curezone.com. He seems to be the most knowledgeable of all and he often references science papers such as at PubMed. He has a private Facebook group now. He favors herbs and other natural remedies or supplements.

According to Dr Tenpenny & others, the mRNA vaccines aren't really vaccines, since they don't improve immunity. I'm not sure regular vaccines improve immunity either, but science papers seem to say they do. Anyway, the mRNA injections were said to cause fatal lung infections in animal studies. James Sloane said anyone who gets any of the Covid injections should supplement with chlorella, TMG (trimethyl glycine) and/or schisandra berry (powder). So I'd like to understand how those supplements would reverse the lung infections and other side effects of the Covid injections.

OVERPOPULATION

Crawler said the world is overpopulated and some countries are adding to the problem. I disagree. It would be easy to feed a much larger population than the present one if governments would not interfere with distribution of food. Allan Savory & others have found simple ways to end desertification, which would allow much of the present desert areas to be used to grow livestock for food. Fish is about the only animal food I have any more and aquaponics is an efficient way to grow fish and crops both.

Lloyd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:43 pmOVERPOPULATION
Crawler said the world is overpopulated and some countries are adding to the problem. I disagree. It would be easy to feed a much larger population than the present one if governments would not interfere with distribution of food. Allan Savory & others have found simple ways to end desertification, which would allow much of the present desert areas to be used to grow livestock for food. Fish is about the only animal food I have any more and aquaponics is an efficient way to grow fish and crops both.

Overpopulation is hurting lifeforms. Pollution. Loss of habitat. Global warming. Extinctions.
Drastic actions needed.
Our best chance is for China to take over.

Lloyd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:43 pm JP, what's your experience in the health field? Seems like you have quite a bit.

Health specific, only the last 15 months researching COVID. But as a trained academic with past experiences in the sciences (cell biology, chemistry) I know my way around literature, especially how to find the censored stuff.

I started researching naturopathic medicine recently to help my wife get off all the toxic allopathic crap. Once you start down that rabbit hole there's no going back. The utter corruption of modern medicine and pharmacy is unbelieveable. Then you start connecting the dots with the likes of John D. Rockefeller, the Nazi T4 Project and MKUltra experiments on human subjects and it's very easy to understand that COVID has nothing whatsoever to do with a 'virus'.

I'll have some more papers on that shortly but I can't post hyperlinks easily on my phone.

Ummm... I think this discussion is out of place - it is a NIAMI category?

Reading the Forum Rules I note..

The Future of Science:
-This board is for current trends and possible future issues in Science as they pertain to the Electric Universe. It is not the place to put your pet or favorite non EU theory...

kmcook wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:34 am Ummm... I think this discussion is out of place - it is a NIAMI category?

Reading the Forum Rules I note..

The Future of Science:
-This board is for current trends and possible future issues in Science as they pertain to the Electric Universe. It is not the place to put your pet or favorite non EU theory...

KM, I don't see that quote on this board. I quoted the quote I see in my O.P. Here it is again.
"The Future of Science
"Has science taken a wrong turn? If so, what corrections are needed? Chronicles of scientific misbehavior. The role of heretic-pioneers and forbidden questions in the sciences. Is peer review working? The perverse "consensus of leading scientists. Good public relations versus good science.""

And if you look at the other thread titles, it's apparent that others see the same quote I do.