Thunderbolts Forum v3.0

356950

ACADEMIA.EDU, ROCK ART, PERATT
It wasn't all that hard to get the links for these Rock Art papers after all, so here they are with links this time.

Advanced Plasma Computations and Experiments https://lanl.academia.edu/Departments/A ... /Documents
Anthony Peratt | Los Alamos National Laboratory - Academia.edu https://lanl.academia.edu/AnthonyPeratt?f_ri=493230
(PDF) Antiquity of Iran's rock art: pre-History or Historic-Islamic time https://www.academia.edu/42754665
(PDF) Ashes of Atlantis - part 1 https://www.academia.edu/63468751
Asiatic Echoes The Identification of Ancient Chinese Pictograms in pre-Columbian North American Rock Writing https://www.academia.edu/108280346
Astromorphism and the Influence of Prehistorhttps://www.academia.edu/50052043ic
Astronomy on the Origin of Religion https://www.academia.edu/122898248
Astronomical Petroglyphs – Searching for Rock Art Evidence for an Ancient Super Aurora https://www.academia.edu/50052043
Aurorae in Australian Aboriginal Traditions https://www.academia.edu/4822545
Background To Historic and Prehistoric Resources of the East Mojave Desert Region https://www.academia.edu/89534604
Birkeland Currents: A Force-Free Field-Aligned Model https://www.academia.edu/79079899
Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity https://www.academia.edu/92655176
Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity Part II: Directionality and Source https://www.academia.edu/9156694
Comparative Mythology: the systematic comparison of mythic themes gathered from a wide variety of cultures and ideas https://www.academia.edu/125264432
Cosmic Hillfort of the King The Yellow Hill (fort) as a Cosmic Hill or mountain motif and symbol of a King's authority https://www.academia.edu/38993303
Current Research on the Rock Artat Gua Tambun, Perak, Malaysia https://www.academia.edu/87587575
(PDF) FAQ: EPEMC MIMS https://www.academia.edu/50912946
Geoglyphs Research Papers https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Geoglyphs
A Geomagnetic Approach to Traditions of Axes Mundi; Part I https://www.academia.edu/50054634
Geometry of an Intense Auroral Column As Recorded in Rock Art https://www.academia.edu/50051117
MESS0035: A Guide to the EPEMC Trip Reports https://www.academia.edu/93954112
Lightning Induced Remanent Magnetization at the Buffalo Slough Burial Mound Complex https://www.academia.edu/32428971
Major Geological Fissure through Prehistoric Lion Monument at Giza Inspired Split Lion Hieroglyphs and Ancient Egypt's Creation Myth https://www.academia.edu/40231115
Marinus Anthony Van der Sluijs https://independent.academia.edu/Marinu ... nderSluijs
(PDF) Neo-Eneolithic Literacy: Key References https://www.academia.edu/13951049
Neolithic rock art associated with intense auroral currents https://www.academia.edu/9156605
61 Nights of Sacrifice -The Vratya Form of the Gavamayana Ceremony Volume 3 on the Vratya; Part 1 https://www.academia.edu/105284059
Origin of Europeans https://www.academia.edu/79050507
(PDF) Perattian Thunderbolts and Megafauna Extinction https://www.academia.edu/39006416
Petroglyphs in Your Pocket 2021 https://www.academia.edu/45653744
Plasma Petroglyphs (Plasmaglyphs), Earthworks, and the Megafauna Extinction https://www.academia.edu/37490311
Plasmaglyphs Part 1 https://www.academia.edu/69494985
Plasmaglyphs Part 2 https://www.academia.edu/69494988
(PDF) Plasmaglyphs Part 3 https://www.academia.edu/69494983
Plate tectonic issues, the influence of electricity in rock forming processes https://www.academia.edu/111941713
Pleistocene megafauna Research Papers https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/P ... _megafauna
A prehistoric praying mantis petroglyph in Iran https://www.academia.edu/108178933
(PDF) Ramon's AKHA Articles https://www.academia.edu/49945915
Ten Reasons to Consider Switching to Extended Plasma-electromagnetic Cosmology https://www.academia.edu/37569958
(PDF) review of L. Piccardi & W. B. Masse (eds.), Myth and Geology https://www.academia.edu/50053384
(PDF) Revising Old Testament Chronology and Context https://www.academia.edu/45351887
Rock Art Images - a global perspective.pdf https://www.academia.edu/34710907
Rock Art in Madhya Pradesh https://www.academia.edu/40985213
(PDF) Rock Art of Arizona https://www.academia.edu/45654928
(PDF) Rock Art of the Owens Valley https://www.academia.edu/46414304
(PDF) Rock Artof Maharashtra https://www.academia.edu/13013981
Science and Catastrophism, from Velikovsky to the Present Day, Quantavolution Conference, Naxos, 2012 https://www.academia.edu/22585665
Searching for Rock Art Evidence for an Ancient Super Aurora https://www.academia.edu/50052043
Semiotics and Meaning of Rock Art https://www.academia.edu/41218724
The Semiotics of X: Chiasmus, Cognition and Extreme Body Memory https://www.academia.edu/35644532
Shifu Careaga | University of Kentucky - Academia.edu https://uky.academia.edu/ShifuCareaga
Sky Spirits A Search for Meaning in Ancient Rock Art Part 1 https://www.academia.edu/40989740
Sky Spirits A Search for Meaning in Ancient Rock Art Part 2 https://www.academia.edu/40989764
Strong Letter Response to Mr. Ben Davidson, Suspicious 0bservers, et al https://www.academia.edu/53139271
Studies on the popular reception and misconceptions of contemporary theoretical physics https://www.academia.edu/38403833
(PDF) SYMBOLS OF THE STILL FAMILIAR SKY https://www.academia.edu/31136138
(PDF) Uchell, the High Lord, and Shang Di https://www.academia.edu/38744706
Virtual Image Reconstruction of an Intense Z-Pinch Aurora at Earth's Southern Axis from Archaic Petroglyphs https://www.academia.edu/103898229
When the Aurora Went Global; A Summary of 'On the Origin of Myths in Catastrophic Experience' https://www.academia.edu/78262960
Younger DryasResearch Papers - Academia.edu https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Younger_Dryas

357043

MORE ACADEMIA.EDU PAPERS

ACADEMIA.EDU SATURN
Saturn as the "Sun of Night" in Ancient Near Eastern Tradition https://www.academia.edu/50051039
SATURN, THE BLACK HORSE & SAINT AUGUSTINE https://www.academia.edu/31611048
The Great Pyramid - Was Saturn a key design influence? https://www.academia.edu/43702283
Revisiting the Colour of Saturn as Perceived in Antiquity https://www.academia.edu/50050979
Did ancient Assyrians view Saturn through telescopes? https://www.academia.edu/43798571
African Saturn in Late Antiquity https://www.academia.edu/106345073
Early Babylonian Observations of Saturn https://www.academia.edu/11896840
Saturn/Cronus-11 https://www.academia.edu/86862955
Revisiting the Colour of Saturn as Perceived in Antiquity https://www.academia.edu/37831421
The Milky Way Mythology and the Stories of Creation https://www.academia.edu/53309753
SYMBOLS OF THE STILL FAMILIAR SKY https://www.academia.edu/38174305
THE MILKY WAY MYTHOLOGY AND THE STORIES OF CREATION https://www.academia.edu/12108516
The Familiar Mytho-Cosmological Sky https://www.academia.edu/22418592
The World Axis as an Atmospheric Phenomenon https://www.academia.edu/50054327

SF. R. CAREAGA PAPERS
{As I said yesterday, there's quite a bit about Careaga's ideas I disagree with, like his dating & expanding Earth, but some findings are interesting, like this.}
Hopewellian Octagons Proof that the Allegewi Astronomers could see Jupiter up close https://www.academia.edu/38755475
The paper mentions that the Newark Earthworks, Chillicothe Earthworks, and High Bank Earthworks in Ohio, USA, have markings that align with the polar vortices of Jupiter. These alignments are described as highly precise and unlikely to be coincidental, suggesting either advanced astronomical knowledge or prior closeness to Jupiter. The paper suggests that the Moon's origin might be linked to Earth's proximity to Jupiter during a transitional period. It proposes that Earth may have orbited Jupiter for some time, allowing ancient cultures to observe both of Jupiter's poles.
1. “Extended Plasma-electromagnetic Cosmology,” 2018 http://www.academia.edu/36753648
2. “On the Origins of Religions,” 2018 http://www.academia.edu/36753645
3. “Unboxing Atlantis,” 2018 http://www.academia.edu/36753644
4. “Our Plasma-Electromagnetic Sky,” 2018 http://www.academia.edu/36753643
5. “Investments in Ragnarok,” 2018 http://www.academia.edu/36753646
6. “Magnetic Universe Theory,” 2018 https://www.academia.edu/37439506
7. “Ferris Wheels and the Dionysian Irony,” 2018 http://www.academia.edu/37403915
8. “Ten Reasons to Consider Switching to EPEMC,” 2018, https://www.academia.edu/37569958
9. “The Predictable Rise of ‘Charged’ Dark Matter,” 2018 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328175179
10. “Clinical Electric Field Measurements,” 2018 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328697566
11. “Chinese Natural Philosophy (Physics) in EPEMC,” 2018, http://www.academia.edu/37784032
12. “Bose-Einstein Condensate Cosmology vs PEMC,” 2018 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329427472
13. “Pseudoscience Cannot be Dark Matter,” 2018, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329629284
14. “Acoustic Shockwave Cosmology and EPEMC,” 2018, https://www.academia.edu/38017260
15. “Plasma Petroglyphs (Plasmaglyphs), Earthworks, and the Megafauna Extinction,” 2018, https://www.academia.edu/37490311
16. “Great Pyramids of Kentucky,” 2018 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327424078
17. “Charge Distribution Networks as Meridians,” 2019, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330117614
18. “Dark Matter Scatter,” 2019, https://www.academia.edu/38105102
19. “Neutrinos, Neutron Stars, and Axions,” 2019 https://www.academia.edu/38152014
20. “Parameterization of New Religion, 2019 https://www.academia.edu/38206009
21. “Sumo: Ancient Ritual to the Thunder God,” 2019 https://www.academia.edu/38268897
22. “Dark Matter Dine & Dash,” 2019 https://www.academia.edu/38285678
23. The “Solar” Orb in Egyptian Hieroglyphics,” 2019 https://www.academia.edu/38492475
24. “Birkeland Polyphase Superweb," https://www.academia.edu/38560727
25. “Uchell, the High Lord, and Shang Di,” 2019
The Dwarf Star God Origins (slideshow) https://www.academia.edu/50912947
Shifu Careaga https://shifucareaga.academia.edu/
Electric Universe Primer https://www.academia.edu/attachments/68 ... nload_file
Ancient Alien Architect Hypothesis and EPEMC (Brief) https://www.academia.edu/37856134

358358

PETER JAMES EGYPT CHRONOLOGY REVISION

I found this link in doing my weekly Major Sci News Blog: https://www.academia.edu/128356295/Gree ... ronologies . So I asked Perplexity.AI to list Peter James main findings discussed there and maybe elsewhere too.

Peter James’ revisions to ancient Egyptian chronology center on challenging the conventional timeline by reducing it by approximately 250–500 years, primarily through reinterpreting the Third Intermediate Period (TIP) and addressing inconsistencies across Mediterranean archaeology. Here are the key findings and reasoning behind his work:

Major Findings
Overlapping Dynasties in the Third Intermediate Period
James argued that the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd Dynasties were not consecutive but overlapped, compressing the TIP from ~1070–665 BC to a shorter timeline. This eliminated “phantom” centuries and reduced the associated “Dark Ages” in neighboring regions like Greece and the Near East.

Reidentification of Biblical Shishak
James rejected the traditional link between Pharaoh Shoshenq I (22nd Dynasty) and the biblical Shishak, instead identifying Shishak as Ramesses III of the 20th Dynasty. He proposed that "Shishak" derived from Ramesses III’s nickname Sesi, addressing discrepancies in the conventional timeline’s alignment with biblical events like Solomon’s reign.

Elimination of the Mediterranean Dark Age
By lowering Egyptian dates, James redefined the end of the Late Bronze Age to ~950 BC, bridging gaps in archaeological records (e.g., Mycenaean Greece, Hittite Anatolia) and removing the post-Bronze Age “collapse” as a historical illusion.

Stratigraphic Revisions in Israel
At sites like Lachish and Megiddo, James redated Iron Age strata to align with revised Egyptian chronology. For example, Solomon’s wealthy kingdom (traditionally placed in Iron Age levels) was reassigned to the Late Bronze IB, resolving mismatches between biblical accounts and archaeological evidence.

Critique of Conventional Dating Methods
James challenged the reliability of Egyptian chronology’s pillars, including: Astronomical records (e.g., the Ebers Papyrus); Pottery seriation; Synchronisms with Mesopotamia.

Core Reasoning
Anomalies in Conventional Chronology: James highlighted mismatches, such as gaps in Mediterranean stratigraphy (e.g., “missing” 250–600 years at key sites) and the implausibility of widespread societal collapse during the Dark Age.

Interdisciplinary Evidence: By correlating timelines across Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Levant, he demonstrated that lowering Egyptian dates resolved anomalies like the absence of 10th-century BC artifacts in Israel during Solomon’s supposed reign.

Political and Cultural Continuity: Overlapping dynasties and revised timelines restored continuity between Late Bronze Age cultures and their Iron Age successors, challenging the notion of a “Dark Age” cultural regression.

358941

CARDONA'S SATURN IDENTIFICATIONS

https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ifications
From His Last Book, Newborn Star

Cardona quoted a lot of sources that he thought indicated that the ancients considered Saturn to be the Sun-god. Here are some of those he referenced: Anthony Aveni -- Arabian historian al Masudi -- Arthur Cook -- Bartel van der Waerden -- Berossus -- {Bible} -- Claudius Ptolemy -- David Kelly -- David Talbott -- Diodorus Siculus -- Dogon of Mali -- Efe pygmies of Ituri forest -- Eric Aitchison -- Frank Moore Cross -- George Rawlinson -- Helladius -- Hildegard Lewy -- Hindu Atharvaveda -- Solomon's temple -- Louis Ginzberg -- Manly Hall -- Maori of New Zealand -- Maya -- Mochus -- Proclus -- Philo Byblius -- Photius of Constantinople -- Plato -- Pyramid Texts -- Macrobius Ambrosius Theodosius -- Sozomen (5th century A.D. historian) -- Wiesbaden Museum -- William Foxwell Albright.

Here are some samples of Saturn Identifications that Cardona made in his book, Newborn Star. The first number is the page #. This ____ means source; this ==> means "said"; and = means identity, sort of.

_31 ____Manly Hall==> Saturn = elementary power of creation
____Velikovsky==> Saturn was much larger;
____mainstream astronomy==> Saturn was a brown dwarf star
_140 ____Zysman==> Sanskrit==> Saurikah = heaven = paradise = planet Saturn
____China Soochow Astronomical Chart==> planets = five elements, element earth = T'ien-Hsing = Saturn
____ancient Egyptians==> element earth = set ~= god Set = Saturn
____Greeks==> Typhon = Set = Saturn
_180 ____ancient Greeks==> Helios = Kronos (= Saturn); Helios = thick-bodied snake = wreath = tail in mouth
____Egyptians==> scarab = within circular coil of serpent
____Roman poet Macrobius Ambrosius Theodosius==> Phoenicians==> Janus (= Saturn) = serpent coiled swallowing its tail
_241 ____{Dwardu}==> some of Saturn's present rings = spiraling
_243 ____Hindu Atharvaveda==> three sets of heavens numbered seven = loops that bound Varuna = Saturn, seven spread out in three
_274 ____Eric Aitchison==> stone configuration at Callanish in Scotland's Outer Hebrides = image of the Saturn polar configuration
____ancient Irish==> British circles = proto-Saturn

There are a lot more than that on my post.

I made the post in order to try to make it easy for Ev Cochrane to skim through it for comments. He thinks Mars was the Sun-god, instead of Saturn, but Cardona compiled a lot of evidence for Saturn being the ancient Sun-god, so I want to see if Ev can find fault with many of Cardona's claims. I emailed him now to see if he'll give me a reply.


WAS SATURN SEEN CLOSE UP?

I'm thinking of adding something to my previous post about Jupiter and Saturn seen up close. What prompted this new idea was reading what Cardona said about the Ka'aba (cube) at Mecca, where people walk around the cubical building 7 times. He said that was a ritual that was performed in ancient times before Islam existed. And he said an ancient Arabic writer admitted that the cube represented Saturn. So I've been wondering what about Saturn might look like a cube. What I thought of was the hexagon at Saturn's north pole. If there's a Y-shape inside a hexagon connecting 3 corners, it makes it look like a cube. The cube needs to have the pointy ends at top and bottom, otherwise the Y would need to be sideways.

In the previous post I showed that the octagon at Jupiter's north pole resembles octagonal earthworks at 3 different Hopewell Indian sites in Ohio. So in both cases we have the right pattern at the wrong pole. So maybe this is a blind alley. Or it's a maze with blind alleys. I'll think about doing a post on that tomorrow or sometime. I might add it to my previous post.

By the way, don't be fooled tomorrow, which is an hour away.

359066

CARDONA'S SATURN ID'S WERE MOSTLY WRONG

Ev Cochrane gave me his views on Cardona's book, Newborn Star.

NEWBORN STAR IS ERRONEOUS
Ev said he's read everything Dwardu ever wrote. His book, Newborn Star, never should have been released. His wife apparently completed it after his death and edited it badly, unlike Dwardu's typical careful editing. The references I mentioned in my post are all either totally bogus or misinterpreted by Dwardu. As an example, Anthony Aveni likely never discussed the planet Saturn. There is no credible reference to Saturn in all of the Mesoamerican codices. Lots of people are looking. David Kelley suggested possibilities, but nothing has stood up to scrutiny. Ev knows the material better than anyone and has been looking for Saturn for some 40 years in the New World, but it is nowhere to be found. He believes it will be found at some point, but what's cited by Dwardu is not helpful. A.B. Cook never discussed the planet Saturn in any serious astronomical or mythological sense. What these guys did is talk about Kronos or the Latin god Saturn and Dwardu jumped to the conclusion that the planet {Saturn} is being described, which is a totally fallacious argument. The same goes for William F. Albright, Cross and the few other serious scholars cited. Most of these guys, like Aitchison, are Velikovskian acolytes who have bias. The only serious scholar here that actually discusses the planet Saturn is Lewy. None of Dwardu's identifications will hold up to scrutiny (Quetzalcoatl was not Saturn, nor dozens of others). In his initial Mars book, where most of the extant evidence on Saturn is produced, Saturn was identified with Shamash in astronomical texts dating to early in the first millennium BCE. That's all. Until Saturn can be found in the New World or some other region uncontaminated by the Babylonian traditions, it is difficult to make a valid argument that Saturn was formerly a sun overhead.

SPECIFIC QUESTIONS
I then asked these 6 questions.
1. Reading one of your old papers some weeks or months back, I noticed that you seemed to identify Humbaba as Saturn. You said lately that Shamash is the only god you've been able to identify as Saturn, so does this mean you changed your mind about Humbaba?
2. I think I located the paper now. It was in Kronos magazine, called Kronos, Minos, and the Celestial Labyrinth. The paper seems to agree with Dwardu's findings. There was a section on HUWAWA, TLALOC, AND MOLOCH in which you even identified an American god as Saturn. And Reference 23. said "A. B. Cook, Vol. II, p. 548. That the double-axe will trace to the band which surrounded Saturn will be shown in a forthcoming paper by the author and David Talbott." Do you take that back too?
3. So it appears that you and Dave used to agree with Dwardu's views quite a bit, but somewhere along the line, you changed your mind. I guess I haven't read any of your books as yet, but I've read many of your papers. I don't recall you ever saying that you changed your mind about Saturn being the original Sun-god. So have you written about that anywhere? If so, when, and what title should I look for?
4. Can you briefly explain what convinced you that Saturn played only a rather minor role in the polar configuration? And do you believe Saturn was definitely part of the configuration?
5. If Shamash is the only god who can be identified with Saturn, do you really trust that one source to be absolutely correct that Saturn was involved?
6. Do you feel certain that the polar crescent was the sunlit crescent of Saturn?

DWARDU WAS STUCK ON SATURN
He replied that he hasn't looked at the Kronos article in some 40 years and doubts it would still hold up, but said Humbaba does share certain characteristics with Shamash (the seven-fold aura, for example). It remains an intriguing hypothesis. He was just reading Martian Metamorphoses which had a lengthy discussion of the myth. He needs to review the double axe. He said he didn't agree with Dwardu's findings. Instead, Dwardu took all that material from Ev's previous writings. Dave, Dwardu, and he agreed on a great number of things, which is only natural, since he and Dwardu were both inspired by Dave's thesis in The Saturn Myth. Dwardu never deviated from Dave's initial writings in the mid-70's, but Ev and Dave moved on to discuss the far greater roles of Mars and Venus. Ev continues to believe that Saturn was involved in the polar configuration as a larger orb/planet, which is needed for the Venusian rays to flow back towards. But it is very difficult to find any telltale evidence for this core belief. So he has a strong desire to find such evidence. Regarding the crescent, he thinks it's very likely that, at a phase in the evolving history of the polar configuration, the crescent was on the planet Saturn and revolved around the sky with the daily cycle, as argued by Dave in the brilliant article, Ship of Heaven. But there were numerous crescents over the course of prehistory, so it is always wise not to claim certainty.

SATURN IS HANGING BY A THREAD, OR SEVERAL THREADS
Since Ev said Shamash was identified with Saturn only in the first millennium BC, which is rather late, and since that, maybe along with Humbaba, is the only fairly strong association with Saturn, it seems like Saturn's involvement in the polar configuration is pretty weak. He said something like Saturn is needed to explain the rays of Venus curving backwards and the crescent of the configuration. I guess it's also needed to explain the 3 concentric circles in ancient rock art etc (and maybe Humbaba, the god with intestines or snakes on its face). So let's get out our spades and start digging through prehistory for sure signs of Saturn and stuff.

360789

NAGA SERPENT VENUS COMET

I made a new post by that title at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... enus-comet which I also added to my online book: https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history.

Praveen Mohan's latest video sparked it. See https://youtu.be/xXZOSSLICiA. He showed that an ancient Egyptian city and god are the same as an ancient Indian city and god, both meaning SNAKE/SERPENT. I didn't mention this in the post, but it seems that the chaotic events of early ancient myths likely occurred at the time of the Younger Dryas cataclysm about 2500 BC. And the Golden Age seems to have come after that, since the cataclysm was considered the Creation event, I think.

Here are the contents of the post with links.

ENGLISH WORD, SNAKE https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... word-snake
MYTHS OF COMETS, DRAGONS, SERPENTS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... s-serpents
MYTHS OF SERPENTS & BIRDS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -and-birds
VENUS COMET, DRAGON, SERPENT https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... on-serpent
EARLIEST DRAGON MYTHS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... agon-myths
EARLIEST SERPENT MYTHS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... pent-myths
EARLIEST VENUS DRAGON/SERPENT MYTHS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... pent-myths
PREHISTORIC COMETS AS SERPENTS OR DRAGONS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... or-dragons
EARLY ROCK ART OF COMETS ETC AS SERPENTS OR DRAGONS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... or-dragons
ANCIENT SERPENT OF EGYPT & INDIA https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -and-india
MANY FACES OF VENUS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... s-of-venus
THE VENUS COMET https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... enus-comet
VENUS, MARS & SATURN https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... and-saturn

362409

EVOLUTION OF RELIGION (FROM THE POLAR CONFIGURATION)

One of my Substack readers told me about Richard Cassaro's website and videos. He shows that certain symbols have been passed down since ancient times and have possibly had religious meanings since early on. It looks like the main symbol involving a human or menorah figure with identical animals or objects on both sides came from the Squatterman plasma apparition in the polar sky. The post consists mainly of images, so one can see how the apparitions evolved through the millennia down to the present. I got Squatterman-related images from this video channel https://www.youtube.com/@kronos-7628/videos which hasn't been active for a year now. I'm contemplating doing a post on similar images from this channel before long.

These are the Contents.
MASTER OF ANIMALS & OBJECTS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nd-objects
SQUATTERMAN = MASTER https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... man-master
MASTER SIGN IN PYRAMIDS & TEMPLES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nd-temples
MALE & FEMALE AS OPPOSITES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -opposites
MODERN RELIGION/PHILOSOPHY https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... philosophy
DOLMENS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... 78/dolmens
TWIN LIONS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... twin-lions
FROM OSIRIS TO CHRIST https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -to-christ

KRONOS CHANNEL VIDEO LINKS

I made another post just now. KRONOS CHANNEL VIDEOS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nel-videos. It's a list of all of the videos of the Kronos Video Channel. Looks like the author stopped making the videos a year ago, but they go back 6 years, so there are plenty to see. I've seen a few and they show quite a few ancient images related to the ancient polar configuration. I think I'm getting a clearer picture of how the images evolved since the time of the polar configuration. Same regarding Religion.

363396

IMPACTS PUSHED SLABS INTO MANTLE

I just posted on that at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... nto-mantle.
I read a recent Creationist article that said cold slabs found deep in Earth's mantle sank from the surface during the Great Flood. So I asked Mike Fischer of https://NewGeology.us his opinion. He said the impacts that formed "Antar" and Pangaea caused some of the basaltic crust to sink into the mantle. So it occurred way before the Great Flood. He pointed out that these slabs disprove the churning of the mantle that Plate Tectonics and Catastrophic Plate Tectonics theorize. He also said it's not definite that the slabs are much cooler than ambient mantle temperature, since chemical composition may have the same pattern on seismic wave profiles.

I eventually would like to be clearer on what happened to the rest of the original crust that wasn't pushed into the mantle. He shows an image of where Pangaea formed from the melted asteroid impact and some of that melt covered the entire Earth. So maybe that means the present oceanic crust formed from the same melt, but that's basalt while the continents are mostly granite. So I'm not clear on that.

I added the new post to my ebook, Cataclysmic Earth History, at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/cataclys ... th-history. The chapter titles are: HISTORY OF GEOLOGY; MAINSTREAM DATING ERRORS; 5000+ TO 3200 BC PREFLOOD EVENTS; 3200 BC GREAT FLOOD EVENTS; POST-FLOOD RECURRING VOLCANISM (3200 & 2500 BC & LATER); 3200-2500 BC INTERFLOODS ICE AGE & GOLDEN AGE; 2500 BC YOUNGER DRYAS EVENTS; POST Y.D.

365381

MODERN CATASTROPHISM

I made a post on that at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... astrophism because a new friend didn't know much about the topic, so I provided that as an introduction. I learned a few things by writing it. I learned that Ralph Juergens retired in 1960 and moved close to Velikovsky. He wrote a lot in favor of Velikovsky's theory. I knew that part. And I knew they both died in Nov. 1979. So Juergens had 19 years of fun writing about that. I didn't know or at least remember that Juergens co-published The Velikovsky Affair in 1966 with de Grazia and Stichini. I learned some more about Dave Talbott's work with the Student Academic Freedom Forum that published Pense'e in the 70s, which greatly increased popularity of Velikovsky's theory. I found that Velikovsky had a network of contacts, so when Dave contacted Velikovsky he also got contacts from him, some of whom became authors of articles for Pense'e. AI was able to dig up almost all of the info for me. It even correctly stated the various theories or models covered. I included a link to my Bibliography at the end, which includes links to some of Velikovsky's books etc as well as Saturnist and Creationist sources. I then made Modern Catastrophism the first post in ANCIENT MYTHS ARE EARTH HISTORY at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history.

369140

AI HELPS SOLVE EARTH'S FORMER WEAK GRAVITY?

Earlier today AI helped me understand John Kierein's push gravity model, which I wrote about at https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... sh-gravity.
Then I got curious if that could help explain how Earth's gravity could have been much weaker in the past. So one question led to another and another. Each question was answered by AI. It even had the manners to avoid pushing mainstream models, for the most part. What AI helped reveal is that Kierein's push gravity is caused by longwave EM radiation, i.e. radiowaves. Here is the Table of Contents, clickable, of that earlier post of today.
KIEREIN’S GRAVITY THEORY https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... ity-theory
WHY ONLY RADIO WAVES CAUSE GRAVITY https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... se-gravity
SIMPLER EXPLANATION https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... xplanation
GENTLE RADIO WAVES V. VIOLENT X- & G-RAYS https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... and-g-rays
HOW EM WAVES PENETRATE MATTER https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... and-g-rays
HOW EM WAVES ARE ELECTRICAL & MAGNETIC https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... d-magnetic
MILES MATHIS ON PHOTONS https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... on-photons
KEIREIN & MATHIS SIMILAR VIEWS https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... ilar-views
PARTICLES MADE OF PHOTONS https://electricastrophysics.substack.c ... of-photons
HIGHLIGHTS OF MATHIS FORUM https://ilki.substack.com/p/miles-mathis-science

Then this evening I completed this post.
EARTH'S FORMER WEAK GRAVITY at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ak-gravity.
The earlier post showed how gravity seems likely to work. Then for this next post, AI contended that several probable aspects of the Saturn Train could very possibly have interfered with background longwave radiation, thus causing a reduction of Earth's gravity. Namely, dense large diameter plasma and/or dust cloud, possibly containing water vapor, but not needed, and involving much more intense lightning, along with flaring, could well have caused a reduction of Earth's gravity, which then could explain the largest dinosaurs and plants.

And here is the Table of Contents for that.
KIEREIN’S GRAVITY THEORY https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ity-theory
HOW TO DECREASE A PLANET’S GRAVITY https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ts-gravity
GRAVITY SHADOW INSIDE OBJECTS https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... de-objects
SMALL OBJECTS TOWARD GRAVITY SHADOW https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... ity-shadow
VAN FLANDERN TANGENT https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... rn-tangent
REDUCING EM RADIO WAVES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... adio-waves
RED/BROWN DWARF EM RADIATION https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... -radiation
PLASMA & DUST REDUCE RADIOWAVES https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... radiowaves
PLASMA/DUST CLOUD DENSITY REQUIREMENT https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... equirement
COMBINING DWARF EMISSION & PLASMA/DUST https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... plasmadust
CONCLUSION: SATURN TRIO COULD CAUSE LOWER EARTH GRAVITY https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... th-gravity

369384

MY DRAFTS

I have a bunch of unfinished drafts of catastrophism and other things at https://lenkinder.substack.com/p/drafts-contents. The section on Catastrophism is at https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/162152 ... astrophism. I just updated the Rock Arts draft at https://lenkinder.substack.com/p/rock-a ... ws-ladders. Here are the contents. I just added the section on Petry Rock Art.

PERATT PLASMA FIGURES https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... ma-figures
STICKMEN & BIGHORNS https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... d-bighorns
PETRY ROCK ART https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... y-rock-art
PATTERNED BODY ANTHROPOMORPHS (PBA) https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... morphs-pba
ROCK ART BLUEPRINT https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... -blueprint
ARROWHEADS IN ROCK ART https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... n-rock-art
ARROWHEADS COMMON https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... ads-common
ARROWHEAD MORPHING https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... d-morphing
ARROWHEAD MEANINGS https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... d-meanings
LADDERS, ROPES https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... ders-ropes
CONNECTION TO HEAVEN https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... -to-heaven
PERATT’S PLASMA LADDERS https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... ma-ladders
PLASMA LADDER CONNECTORS https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... connectors
CHINVAT CONNECTOR https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... -connector
ACADEMIA.EDU, ROCK ART, PERATT https://lenkinder.substack.com/i/158378 ... art-peratt

I'm trying to determine how rock art morphed into ancient civilization images on monuments, cylinder seals etc and what aspects of the Saturn model are explainable by rock art etc.

I don't know if everyone is aware of this, but AI makes research much easier than ever. It's not perfect, but a hello of a lot easier and faster than previously possible. It was able to find detailed info from Thornhill's, Kierein's, Van Flandern's, Peratt's, and even Charles Chandler's (when I provided a link to Charles material). It makes research more fun than ever.

369404

2012 EU CATASTROPHISM PAPER HIGHLIGHTS
Trevor Palmer's 2012 paper, Science and Catastrophism, from Velikovsky to the Present Day
https://www.academia.edu/22585665
{Following are excerpts from the above 2012 paper, which have the most significance for my studies. You may find other excerpts there interesting too. I plan to add this to my bibliography as a reference at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/cataclys ... ient-myths.}
__VENUS COMET TAIL
Further considerations involving escape velocity apply to Velikovsky’s theory that the object which became the planet Venus left Jupiter as a comet. In part I chapter II of Worlds in Collision, Velikovsky wrote that red dust, followed by gravel, fell on Egypt as the Earth entered deeper into the tail of this comet at the time of the Exodus. Five chapters later, he stated that stones from the same cometary tail fell on the Canaanites in the days of Joshua. It has now been established that cometary tails are formed by the evaporation of volatile material from the nucleus as it passes close to the Sun, with non-volatile material such as dust and gravel being carried along with the escaping gases. Typical comets, with nuclei a few kilometres in diameter, have two tails, one consisting of the gases, which are ionised (i.e. electrically charged), this tail always pointing directly away from the Sun, and the other consisting of dust, gravel and perhaps larger stones, this tail trailing behind the comet in its orbit, and normally appearing as the more spectacular of the two (Burnham, 2000; Steel, 2000, pp. 74-75; Man, 2001). A comet the size of Venus, i.e. one very much larger than a typical comet, could still have an ion tail, but not one containing dust and larger solid material, because the evaporation process could not possibly raise it to a speed in excess of 37,000 km/hr, the escape velocity necessary for solids to escape the gravitational constraints of a body like Venus. Thus, the possibility that Venus once had a cometary tail cannot be excluded, but it would not have been a particularly conspicuous one, and it could not have contained dust, gravel and stones to deposit on the Earth. ... we cannot entirely exclude the possibility that there was a cloud of dust, gravel and stones following Venus, which may have looked like a cometary tail, even though it could not have been thrown out from the planet.
__In the “Saturn Theory” developed during the 1980s by David Talbott and colleagues from the initial ideas of Velikovsky (and to which we shall return later), Venus was no longer thought to have been ejected from Jupiter as a comet, nor to have been a newcomer to the Solar System at the dawn of civilisation. As the theory developed, it was argued that the comet-like appearance of the planet inferred from ancient writings and depicted in rock-art images was the result of the discharge of plasma streamers, this relating to a period much earlier than the time of Velikovsky’s supposed Venus catastrophe (Talbott and Cochrane, 1984; Cochrane, 1988; Talbott, 2008).
__ORBIT CIRCULARIZATION
Regardless of timescale, British mathematician, Laurence Dixon, showed that considerations of the principles of conservation of energy and angular momentum demonstrated that it would have been possible for Venus to have moved to its present orbit following encounters with the Earth and Mars, but, assuming the masses of the planets remained constant, only if the first contact took place when the Earth was in an orbit in which its average distance from the Sun was around half of what it is now (Dixon, 2001). That is roughly consistent with what Velikovsky wrote in his 1942 summary, but, as currently understood, it would have put the Earth’s position at the time well outside of the “habitable zone”, where water could exist in liquid form at the surface of the planet (Fogg, 1992; Kasting, Whitmire and Reynolds, 1993; Weed, 2002). Neither human beings nor any other animal life could have existed under those conditions.
__VENUS FLIES
Worlds in Collision: all around the world people have associated the planet Venus with flies {probably due to a Peratt plasma apparition IMO. AI says, "The Maya referred to Venus as Xux Ek’, which translates as “Wasp Star” or “Fly Star”. This name appears in the Dresden Codex and other Maya sources, reflecting a cultural association between the planet Venus and stinging or flying insects."}
__EARLY BRONZE AGE CATASTROPHES
At the first SIS Cambridge Conference in 1993, John Bimson and Bob Porter, separately, gave assessments of Schaeffer’s findings in the light of subsequent developments in archaeology. They agreed that there was strong evidence of widespread catastrophic destructions of cities at the end of the Early Bronze Age, but the evidence for similar destructions at the end of the Middle Bronze Age, the time of the Venus catastrophe, was much more tenuous. Although there was evidence of earthquake damage at many of the sites, there was nothing to indicate the kind of cosmic catastrophe envisaged by Velikovsky, and the main reason why the destructions at the end of the Middle Bronze Age had seemed of particular significance to Schaeffer was that he found evidence to suggest they had been followed at each site by an occupational gap of 100 – 150 years. However, to Porter, it seemed likely that this apparent hiatus was simply an artefact of the dating procedure used by Schaeffer (Bimson, 1993; Porter, 1993).
__ICE CORES
Whilst it cannot be said that the ice-core evidence has provided conclusive proof against the theory of a global catastrophe in the fifteenth century BCE, it is evident that it has not provided any positive support for the notion.
__LINEAR SATURN MODEL PROBLEM
The “polar configuration” hypothesis ... maintains that Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars and Earth once orbited the Sun as a single linear unit, rotating about a point close to Saturn. ... “The most obvious objection to the Saturn theory is its apparent incompatibility with conventional astrophysics. ...{The theory needs} a viable physical model for the polar configuration” An early attempt at such a model (Grubaugh, 1993) was found by Slabinski to be untenable (Slabinski, 1994). In the year 2000, Italian mathematicians Emilio Spedicato and Antonino Del Popolo developed a model which showed that the polar configuration could hold together, but only for a very short period of time (Spedicato and Del Popolo, 2000). This model did not take into account tidal effects or electromagnetic forces, which offered some hope to the supporters of the Saturn theory, but the formulation of a viable physical model is still awaited. {At https://www.velikovsky.info/saturn-theory/: On Spedicato’s model, Cardona notes that: “.. the results from the equations involved did not confirm the required sustained dynamical stability of the model.[43] 43 On the contrary, it was found that the stability of such an axially aligned system would be lost “rather fast, with its maximum duration corresponding to only about 3 months, when its “expected stability should extend at least over several thousand years”}
__EARTH SURVIVAL PROBLEM
Speaking after Cochrane at the SIS Silver Jubilee conference, historian Peter James said that the most obvious problem with the Saturn Theory was not the lack of a viable physical model, nor the shortage of specific details which had so far been supplied, but how to explain how the Earth - and its inhabitants - could possibly have survived the upheaval of being wrenched from its position which was always close to Saturn and hurled into an independent orbit around the Sun. James suggested that the apparent description of Saturn in ancient writings as a brilliant object could be explained if a large body had crashed into Saturn at around this time and turned the planet into an incandescent ball of vapour, out of which Saturn’s rings were eventually formed (James, 2000).
__PERATT SOLAR WIND
Peratt has shown that an aurora would take the form of an enormous column if the solar wind was one or two orders of magnitude greater than it is at the present time, so the ancients may have witnessed a long-lasting high-energy auroral storm (Sluijs, 2008).
__COMET ENCKE CATASTROPHES
(Clube, 1984). Estimates of the range of diameters of cometary nuclei in the regions beyond Jupiter suggested that, although most would be between 1 and 10 km, there were likely to be a significant number as large as 200 km. Although small by planetary standards, a giant comet of this size could pose a very serious threat to Earth if propelled into the Inner Solar System. Even if there was no direct collision with the Earth, the giant nucleus could well disintegrate under the gravitational influence of the Sun, releasing large amounts of dust and boulders, to cause significant problems for life on Earth. Such a scenario, involving devastation on Earth because of a cluster of impacts over a short period of time, couple with global cooling caused by the dusting of the upper atmosphere, has been termed coherent catastrophism (Steel, 1995). Clube and Napier have argued that the present orbits of Comet Encke, the Taurid meteor stream and several asteroids, e.g. Oljato, indicate that they were all part of the same body, probably the nucleus of a giant comet, a little over 20,000 years ago. This giant comet, proto- Encke, came into the Inner Solar System and began to disintegrate during the Pleistocene epoch. They linked the glacial conditions of the Late Pleistocene to the dusting of the Earth’s atmosphere by some of the breakdown products. This situation eased around 10,000 years ago, allowing temperatures to rise, but remnants of the giant comet continued to threaten the Earth. Clube and Napier have suggested that the Earth encountered a swarm of meteors and cometary debris between around 2,500 and 2,100 BCE, when there appeared to have been a general deterioration in climate, and again at the time of the Exodus, which they dated to 1369 BCE. At times during the Early and Middle Bronze Ages, Comet Encke would have appeared as a brilliant object in the morning and evening sky, so myths and legends arising from catastrophes during this period may subsequently have been transferred to deities associated with the planet Venus, which would have been the brightest object in the morning and evening skies after Comet Encke dimmed following further disintegration (Clube and Napier, 1990, pp. 181-204). ... However, questions have been raised about how well the Clube-Napier theory can explain details of ancient literature and ancient art (Cochrane, 1998).
__3200 BC CATASTROPHE
Moving forward a few thousand years, Lonnie Thompson, a geophysicist and climatologist at Ohio State University, has assembled evidence from around the world of an abrupt climate change at approximately 3200 BCE, which was co-incident with structural changes in several emerging civilisations (Thompson, Mosley-Thompson et al, 2006; Thompson, 2010). Plants were covered by the Quelccaya ice cap in the Peruvian Andes at this time, and the Sahara switched from a habitable region to a barren desert. Also, tree rings from Ireland and England were unusually narrow, and there was an acidity peak in Greenland ice-cores (Baillie, 1999, pp. 51, 54). Thompson attributed the various indications of climate change and its consequences at around 3200 BCE to a dramatic fluctuation in solar energy reaching the Earth (http://www.researchnews.osu.edu/archive/5200event.htm). The University of Vienna geologist, Alexander Tollmann, together with his wife, Edith, had previously proposed that there had been an impact event at around 3150 BCE, following a larger one at around 7640 BCE (which they linked to the legend of Noah’s Flood) (Tollmann and Kristan-Tollmann, 1994). More recently, British engineers Alan Bond and Mark Hempsell have argued, on the basis of their claimed decipherment of an Assyrian inscription, that Sumerian astronomers in 3123 BCE recorded the passage of a fireball across the sky in a low, flat trajectory, heading in the direction of Austria. Bond and Hempsell went on to deduce that the fireball, an Aten asteroid, exploded in the vicinity of Köfels, causing an enormous landslide, of which evidence still exists (Bond and Hempsell, 2008).
__2300 BC CATASTROPHE
Clear indications of climate change, coincident with the collapse of civilisations, are also found at the end of the Early Bronze Age, dated to around 2300 BCE by conventional scholars, and also by Velikovsky in chapter XII of Earth in Upheaval. This was the period of Velikovsky’s proposed catastrophic episode associated with “Jupiter of the Thunderbolt”, when the Old Kingdom of Egypt fell, the impressive Troy II civilisation ended, and the cities of the Jordan plain, including Sodom and Gomorrah, were destroyed by fire from above. Irish oaks show an episode of reduced growth centred on 2345 BCE (Baillie, 1999, p. 54), and the American engineer, Moe Mandelkehr, compiled a wealth of evidence of catastrophic events and rapid climate change at this time, this being presented in a series of papers in the publications of the SIS from 1983 to 2007, and towards the end of that period as a book in three volumes (Mandelkehr, 2006). Similar evidence was also presented by others at the 2nd SIS Cambridge Conference in 1997 (Peiser, Palmer and Bailey, 1998, pp. 93-139).
__OLD KINGDOM CATASTROPHE
Investigations by Fekri Hassan of University College London have demonstrated that the Old Kingdom of Egypt came to an end at a time of droughts and famine (Hassan, 2007). Similarly, a detailed examination at Tell Leilan in northern Syria by a team led by Yale archaeologist Harvey Weiss, showed that the climate in the region of this previously thriving site had suddenly become arid at the end of the Early Bronze Age, resulting in its abandonment for a period of several centuries (Weiss, Courty et al, 1993; Kerr, 1998; Marshall, 2012). This seemed to be typical of what happened throughout the Middle East, and a layer of tephra particles at the level of climate change at several sites implicated a volcanic eruption as the cause. On the other hand, Peter James and Nick Thorpe considered it more likely that the prime cause had been an extraterrestrial impact (James and Thorpe, 1999, pp. 50-58). Mandelkehr suggested that, at this time, there had been an encounter with the Taurid complex (Mandelkehr, 2001, 2006), as in the Clube-Napier model. French geologist Marie-Agnès Courty, who had worked with Weiss, found that a dust layer at Tell Leilan and other sites in the Middle East showed evidence of having been formed as a result of an impact into igneous rock (Peiser, Palmer and Bailey, 1998, pp. 93-108). However, no appropriate impact crater has yet been discovered.

365914

ROCK ART & WINGED DISKS

I copied images from a few Kronos videos today at https://lenkinder.substack.com/p/rock-a ... eos-images.

The first half are rock art images. The rest are mostly winged disk images not from rock art.

I think Dave Talbott first had the idea that the winged disk was Saturn and its magnetic field. But Ev Cochrane said recently that the wings were not likely its magnetic field. That seems true because one would need to be above Saturn's equator to see the magnetic field as wing-shaped. However, the ancients were apparently below Saturn's south pole, so the field should have looked circular, if it was visible. AI said planet magnetic fields could be visible if there's thick plasma or dust etc, but we're looking for wing shapes, not circle, at this point.

The thunderbird may have been closely related to the winged disk. The scarab beetle is pretty definitely related. And Venus was said by some cultures to be connected with flies or wasps, which seems to indicate that the flying scarab beetle image is related to the fly and wasp image.

The Kronos author found a pattern in ancient images involving 4 parts: 1. a winged disk above; 2. a person or tree standing under it; 3. an animal under the person; 4. two identical objects or animals or person on each side of the person under the winged disk. Each of those varied a lot, but the same pattern was passed on all the way down to present. I wrote about that in The Evolution of Religion at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... f-religion. I copied a lot of images from one of the Kronos videos there to show how the pattern apparently evolved.

I've been thinking for a few months that, since rock art was likely created by the ancients while they were observing polar plasma apparitions, it should be better to analyze those moreso than later images that were created in early civilizations, which were likely relying on memories of how their elders or ancestors described the apparitions. Gobekli Tepe and a few other similar sites nearby in Turkey are said to be older than any other ancient community facilities. However, it still seems likely that the images at those sites were still based on memories or traditions. So they likely were not creating images as events were occurring in the sky. I think places like Stone Henge were likely contemporary with Gobekli Tepe etc. Petroglyphs have continued to be made down to recent times, but the earliest ones are the ones we need to study the most. I think rock art first appeared after the Great Flood about 5,200 years ago and civilizations may have started a century or more after the Younger Dryas cataclysms, which I date at about 4,500 years ago, which may be when the Saturn Trio broke up.

Lloyd wrote:And Venus was said by some cultures to be connected with flies or wasps,

I read a while back in The Raw and the Cooked [by Claude Levi-Strauss, First Harper Colophon Edition, (1975) p 250] a Sherente (South American) myth about Venus being followed by a swarm of bees. When I read your post it immediately brought it to mind.

M138 Sherente. "The Planet Venus"

Venus (a masculine personage) was living in human shape among men. His body was covered in malodorous ulcers and behind him was a buzzing swarm of bees. All the people turned up their noses when he passed and refused him when he asked for permission to rest in their houses.
Only the Indian Wainkaura, made the poor wretch welcome and gave him a new mat on which to sit. He asked his guest whence he came and whither he was bound. Venus explained that he had lost his way.

[snip]

Venus made a large boat in which Wainkaura took his place along with his family. Venus took leave and departed, a whirlwind lifted him up to the sky.
At once a distant noise became audible. Then the flood came and carried them all away. Before long all drowned or died from hunger. Only Wainkaura and his family escaped.

(emphasis added)