25187
TRYING TO FIND THE DATE OF THE GREAT FLOOD
BAUMGARDNER'S PAPER SHOWS THAT SEDIMENTARY ROCK WAS MOSTLY FLOOD-DEPOSITED
See
https://www.socalsem.edu/noahs-flood-th ... th-history
THE CONTINENTS ARE ABOUT 6,000 YEARS OLD?
Response to Dr Justin Payne's presentation Geochronology: Understanding the Uncertainties, by Jim Mason
https://creation.com/geochronology-uncertainties
Published: 2 April 2015 (GMT+10)
_I submit that the geological record shows considerable evidence that the earth is actually about 6,000 years old, including:
a. measurements of the amount of radiogenic helium retained in zircon crystals from deep in the earth’s crust
b. measurements of the amount of radiogenic argon retained in feldspar in granites from deep in the earth’s crust.
c. measurements of the amount of radiocarbon in coal from various layers in the geological column
d. measurements of the amount of radiocarbon in diamonds from rock deep in the earth’s crust
e. measurements of the amount of radiocarbon in dinosaur bones from various layers in the geological column
f. discovery of various soft biological tissues in dinosaur bones found in various layers in the geological column
_Coal samples from layers in the geological column allegedly ranging in age from about 30 million years to over 300 million years were found to contain significant amounts of 14C, clearly indicating that the coal is only a few thousand years old. Furthermore, the coal samples all had roughly the same amount of 14C regardless of the geological layer from which they had been extracted, indicating that the vegetation that was buried to form the coal all grew at about the same time.
_ In the same study that looked at the level of 14C in coal, the level of 14C in diamonds was also measured. This turned out to be only slightly less than the level in coal [meaning slightly older]....
_Dinosaur bones have been found to contain about the same amount of 14C as the coal samples mentioned above.
_Genetics research indicates that each member of each new generation of humans has 80–300 mutations not present in that member’s parents.... The mutations accumulate and this increasing mutational load represents an inexorable decrease in overall fitness. Geneticists have estimated this decrease in fitness to be of the order of 1%–2% per generation. ... With a 6,000 year scenario at 30 years per generation, the current fitness would be about 13%.
[[COMMENT: I hope to find the details for all of the above.]]
THE CONTINENTS ARE UNDER 8,000 YEARS OLD
Radiometric dating breakthroughs, by Carl Wieland
https://creation.com/radiometric-dating-breakthroughs
_Measuring the rate at which helium leaks out of zircons ... these crystals (and since this is Precambrian basement granite, by implication the whole earth) could not be older than 14,000 years ... [later] updated to give a date of 5,680 (± 2,000) years.
[[COMMENT: Granite is not a primary constituent of seafloor basement rock, but only of contiental basement rock. The former supercontinent seems to have formed from the soft landing on Earth of an asteroid.]]
_Interestingly, [rock?] specimens which appear to definitely be pre-Flood seem to have 14C present, too, and importantly, these cluster around a lower relative amount of 14C. This suggests that some 14C was primordial (existing from the very beginning), and not produced by cosmic rays — thus limiting the age of the entire earth to only a few thousand years.
_Dr Baumgardner sent five diamonds to be analyzed for 14C. ... The diamonds ... formed deep inside the earth.... The diamonds’ carbon-dated ‘age’ of about 58,000 years is thus an upper limit for the age of the whole earth.
[[COMMENT: Again, the supercontinent likely formed from an asteroid soft impact, so the age of the supercontinent is what is likely being measured, not the whole Earth.]]
POST-FLOOD WOOD UNDER 38,000 YEARS OLD
Conflicting ‘ages’ of Tertiary basalt and contained fossilised wood, Crinum, Central Queensland, Australia, Andrew A. Snelling
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/tj_v14n2_crinum.pdf
_Fossilised wood found entombed in a Tertiary basalt flow at Crinum in central Queensland was identified as probably Melaleuca, and yielded a 14C ‘age’ of about 37,500 years BP and a δ13CPDB value of –25.69 ‰ consistent with terrestrial plant organic carbon, and ruling out contamination.
_In the context of the Creation/Flood model of Earth history the fossilised wood is from trees which grew in the immediate post-Flood period. The decelerating Australian plate drifted over a mantle hotspot, a structural weakness in the crust allowing magma to erupt as basalt which engulfed the trees. The fossilised wood’s radiocarbon demonstrates the basalt’s youthfulness and the failure of radioisotopic ‘dating’, but is consistent with a Flood/immediate post-Flood stronger magnetic field.
COAL WAS FLOATING VEGETATION DEPOSITED DURING THE FLOOD
See Forests that grew on water [and became coal]
https://creation.com/forests-that-grew-on-water
_the vegetation which formed the Euro-American coals did not, and could not, have grown in place. In fact, the roots of these now-extinct trees3,4 were not growing in soil at all, but floating in water!
_The evidence that these coal forests grew on water:
1. Such a ‘radial’ root pattern is only found in water plants.
2. The trees were almost entirely hollow inside.
3. The roots and the rootlets were also hollow.
4. The appendices were designed to be cast off.
_Further evidence against the ‘slowly growing swamp with root-soil’ idea:
1. No rot in accompanying fossils.
2. Many evidences of high-energy sedimentation in these layers.
3. Fossilized stigmaria are found in too wide a range of rock types.
_such lycophyte trees would have had their roots intertwined, supporting each other while floating. Fallen leaves and debris would have been caught in this mat, providing a nutrient substrate for the ferns and other species now also found fossilized with these coals. Such a mat (later upon burial to become the coal seam) of living roots, fallen debris and living small plants, would have had substantial structural integrity, its flexibility resisting easy rupture. It would have been buoyant enough to support these ultralight hollow ‘tree’ trunks, aided by the many air-filled appendices twining through it (as shown by coal ball sections).6,7
[[COMMENT: Why did these abundant plants become extinct? Did the ocean waters become too salty?]]
See: The salinity of a floating forest
https://creation.com/the-salinity-of-a-floating-forest
_Fresh water will float on salt water if undisturbed. The extinct, Carboniferous floating forest described by Joachim Scheven would eliminate wind-and wave-driven mixing within and below the ‘mat’, stabilising a salinity gradient of fresh, dew fall water, on a salty sea. This would allow both salt-and fresh-water fauna to coexist in the ecosystem and would explain the mix of fauna found in the Carboniferous coal measures.
[[COMMENT: Looks like the Flood would have mixed ocean waters enough to kill the lycopods and lycophytes of the floating forests.]]
COAL IS UNDER 35,000 YEARS OLD
Radiocarbon in an ‘ancient’ fossil tree stump
https://creation.com/stumping-old-age-dogma
_... A fossilised tree stump was found by miners in the Newvale No. 2 (underground) Coal Mine north of Sydney, Australia....
_Small pieces of the coalified bark and the silicified wood immediately underneath it were sent for radiocarbon (14C) analyses to Geochron Laboratories in Cambridge, Boston (USA), a reputable, internationally-recognized commercial laboratory. The laboratory staff were not told exactly where the samples came from, or their supposed evolutionary age, to ensure that there would be no resultant bias. This laboratory uses the more sensitive accelerator mass spectrometry (AMS) technique for radiocarbon analysis, now recognized as producing the most reliable results, even on minute quantities of carbon in samples.
_There was detectable radiocarbon in the coalified bark, yielding a supposed 14C ‘age’ of 33,700 ± 400 years BP (before present).
_However, a 33,700 ± 400 years BP radiocarbon ‘age’ for this fossilised tree stump is neither inconsistent nor unexpected. A stronger magnetic field before, and during, the Flood would have shielded the Earth more strongly from incoming cosmic rays,9 so there would have been much less radiocarbon in the atmosphere then, and thus much less in the vegetation. [The dating of 34,000 years BP would only apply, if the atmosphere were the same then as now, but if it had less 14C then, the dating would be younger.]
SOME OIL IS UNDER 5,000 YEARS OLD
How fast can oil form? by Andrew A. Snelling
https://creation.com/how-fast-can-oil-form
_[A] ‘natural refinery under the ocean’ is found under the waters of the Gulf of California, in an area known as the Guaymas Basin (see Fig. 1). Through this basin is a series of long deep fractures that link volcanoes of the undersea ridge known as the East Pacific Rise with the San Andreas fault system that runs northwards across California. The basin consists of two rift valleys (flat-bottomed valleys bounded by steep cliffs along fault lines), which are filled with 500 metre thick layers of sediments consisting of diatomaceous ooze (made up of the opal-like ‘shells’ of diatoms, single-celled aquatic plants related to algae) and silty mud washed from the nearby land.
_Along these fractures through the sediments in the basin flows boiling hot water at temperatures above 200°C, the result of deep-seated volcanic activity below the basin.
_The hydrothermal oil from the Guaymas Basin is similar to reservoir crude oils.9
_Other key analytical techniques on the oil give results that are compatible with a predominantly bacterial/algal origin of the organic matter that is the source of the oil and gas.10
_This oil and gas has probably formed by the action of hydrothermal processes on the organic matter within the diatomaceous ooze layers in the basin. Of crucial significance is the radiocarbon (C14 ) dating of the oil. Samples have yielded ages between 4,200 and 4,900 years, with uncertainties in the range 50–190 years.11
OLDEST TREE IS 4,700 YEARS OLD
Patriarchs of the forest, by Gary Bates
https://creation.com/patriarchs-of-the-forest
_Possibly the world’s oldest living1 organism [is] a Bristlecone Pine tree, ... [having an] estimated age (from counting the number of its tree rings) of 4,723 years.2
THE BIBLE DATES THE FLOOD TO 4,500 OR 5,200 YEARS AGO
Two date range options for Noah’s Flood, Brian Thomas
https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j31 ... 20-127.pdf
_Finally, two bc date estimates for the Flood, include a Masoretic placement between 2518 and 2532 bc, and a Septuagint placement circa 3168 bc.
I RECKON A FEW THINGS
In this post I showed Tom Chetwynd's revised Bible Chronology
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =345#p3384
He gave:
_2850 B.C.: for the Rise of the Sumerian city states and Abraham's departure from Sumer.
Charles Chandler gave:
_3761 BC: for when the Sumerians began time-keeping.
_1380 BC: for when Abraham & Sarah were expelled from Egypt. He found evidence that certain Egyptian characters were Abraham and Sarah.
Gary Bates above gave:
_2700 BC: for the age of the oldest tree, which may date from shortly after the Great Flood.
I RECKON:
_2700 BC: was about the time of the end of the Great Flood and the time civilization began in Sumer.
_2200 BC: was about the time of the Younger Dryas cataclysm, when Venus & Mars became unstable. Venus was called Inana. I think the Sumerians saw Inana deposit venom [hydrocarbons?] on the land. (See https://www.catastrophism.com/intro/sea ... oom_cat=-1 )
Tom said:
_2700 B.C.: The Vizier Imhotep of Egypt was Joseph.
_2600-2200 B.C.: The Age of Pyramids was when the Israelites lived in the Nile delta of Egypt.
Charles said:
_1320 BC: was when Joseph was born. I don't see an explanation for that yet.
I RECKON:
_2700-2300 BC: was the Age of Machined Megaliths after the Great Flood and before the Younger Dryas cataclysm. The bases of one or more main pyramids has machined megaliths, so those were apparently likely built before YD and the pyramids were built on top of them after YD. There was advanced megalithic technology before YD, like at Tiahuanaco and many places, but apparently not after YD.
_2200-1600 BC: was the Age of Pyramids.
Tom said:
_2200 B.C.: was when The Old Kingdom in Egypt collapsed due to global cataclysms.
I RECKON:
_2300 BC: was the time of the collapse, just about the same as Tom's idea. Charles doesn't seem to cover that.
Tom said:
_2100 B.C.: there was Evidence of a freak occupation of the Negeb desert (which I think he considered to be the Israelites under Moses in the Wilderness).
_2050 B.C.: was the Canaan conquest (followed by Israelite settlement under the Judges).
Charles said:
_1312 BC: was The Main Exodus
_1288 BC: was the End of Main Exodus
I RECKON:
Tom may be right and the Bible may have events from different times conflated. The Pillar of Smoke and Fire of the Exodus and the killing of a Giant by David seem like events from earlier times, the YD cataclysm. But the characters may have lived later.
HORIZONTAL LANDSLIDES
I posted some excerpts on this at
https://futureschool.boards.net/post/197/thread