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Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2025 1:14 am
by VMblast
Maol wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:24 pm How does Plasma Pressure Theory account for the fact that gravity varies significantly in different locations on planet Earth due to the geological terrain under our feet?

The rock and sediment is not the same density everywhere/anywhere on Earth.

I know from experience If you are setting up a race car chassis and trying to achieve minimum legal (rules) weight, it must be finalized at the individual track because, using the same set of electronic scales with accuracy 0.1%, the car will not weigh the sameat different locations with different geological terrain. If you set up a chassis in the Pacific Northwest it will be light in Central California.
Good question.

What we call gravity, is plasma pressure acting upon the electrons of the matter.
  • Electron densities are different in rocks and sediments.
  • Denser materials like basalt, metals etc. have more free electrons, which means they can interact more strongly with plasma, which in return leads to slightly higher local gravity.
  • On the other hand, lighter material like sand, porous rocks etc. have fiewer free electrons, so plasma exerts a bit weaker pressure in those local regions.
Im still researcing plasma ground/rock permiation. There is a lot to account for. But preliminary, there is a certain depth to which plasma being finally stopped (exponentially), by accumulation of all electrons of the ground. Preliminary, It holds just above 9m/s till 15km and than dropps exponentially to 0m/s at about 36km depth. But this is all still in research phase.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:12 pm
by As I see it
VMblast wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:42 am PPT proposes that gravity is not an intrinsic property of mass but a result of electrostatic plasma pressure acting on a celestial body's electron cloud. Instead of mass “pulling” objects inwards, plasma exerts a force on planetary surfaces, compressing electron clouds and generating what we perceive as gravitational acceleration.
Kudos to you for challenging spacetime! Your external pressure hypothesis, although needing some tweaking for gravity, does hit the nail on the head for replacing the strong nuclear force! You have uncovered an approach to unification by challenging the assumption that the nucleus is held together my magical internal forces that overcomes the proton repulsion when close contact is made.

As discussed by other members here, the external pressure hypothesis, as considered for gravity, does not determine mass. To determine mass, consider that the pressure mechanism must permeate the atom's electron orbitals, all while NOT permeating the nucleons. What is left, is an "electrostatic pressure" (let's drop the "plasma" term for now) that permeates matter, and in doing so, no longer acts as a kinetic or collision based pressure on an outside surface, but instead acts electrostatically - a non-contact, and repulsion based pressure mechanism that works harmoniously with the electron orbitals.

To continue with the strong nuclear force discussion, the non-contact mechanism can be modeled as a kinetic/collision mechanism (at the nucleus level in this case), as we are only dealing with the nucleons and the electrostatic pressure (ie, no electron orbitals are involved). So, a straight forward pressure analogy will work. Imagine taking some golf ball sized oil-based modeling clay deep into the ocean to a depth where any variations in sphericity is somewhat corrected by the extreme pressure. The clay spheres (let's assume perfect buoyancy) just 'hang' in the water where they are placed - they don't attract nor repel, they just do nothing (they are neutrons in this example). Now cause a slight collision of two spheres. When a sufficient contact area is created between the two, where all water has been expelled, the remaining surface area pressure will cause the two spheres to 'glom' together. (For two protons, just use a collision velocity sufficient to form a 'kiss' contact without a bounce.)

Again, kudos to you for challenging spacetime, and developing an alternative mechanism to the strong nuclear force!

Continue to challenge the "gravity attracts" assumption, you're on the right path - challenge next the "we have no clue what dark energy is or where it comes from". (Consider dark energy = the aether (that is not supposed to exist) = zero point energy, ie, challenge the no aether assumption)

Challenge also charge neutrality...

Ask your AI the following question (try several as some can be very hardcore traditionalists, LOL), and let's continue the conversation.

"Within the framework of emergent gravity, could dark energy act not only as a repulsive force driving cosmic expansion but also exert a localized repulsive 'push gravity,' with the universe's large-scale structure effectively functioning as a 'cosmological container' for this pressure?"

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2025 6:23 pm
by VMblast
As I see it wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:12 pm
VMblast wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:42 am PPT proposes that gravity is not an intrinsic property of mass but a result of electrostatic plasma pressure acting on a celestial body's electron cloud. Instead of mass “pulling” objects inwards, plasma exerts a force on planetary surfaces, compressing electron clouds and generating what we perceive as gravitational acceleration.
Kudos to you for challenging spacetime! Your external pressure hypothesis, although needing some tweaking for gravity, does hit the nail on the head for replacing the strong nuclear force! You have uncovered an approach to unification by challenging the assumption that the nucleus is held together my magical internal forces that overcomes the proton repulsion when close contact is made.

As discussed by other members here, the external pressure hypothesis, as considered for gravity, does not determine mass. To determine mass, consider that the pressure mechanism must permeate the atom's electron orbitals, all while NOT permeating the nucleons. What is left, is an "electrostatic pressure" (let's drop the "plasma" term for now) that permeates matter, and in doing so, no longer acts as a kinetic or collision based pressure on an outside surface, but instead acts electrostatically - a non-contact, and repulsion based pressure mechanism that works harmoniously with the electron orbitals.

To continue with the strong nuclear force discussion, the non-contact mechanism can be modeled as a kinetic/collision mechanism (at the nucleus level in this case), as we are only dealing with the nucleons and the electrostatic pressure (ie, no electron orbitals are involved). So, a straight forward pressure analogy will work. Imagine taking some golf ball sized oil-based modeling clay deep into the ocean to a depth where any variations in sphericity is somewhat corrected by the extreme pressure. The clay spheres (let's assume perfect buoyancy) just 'hang' in the water where they are placed - they don't attract nor repel, they just do nothing (they are neutrons in this example). Now cause a slight collision of two spheres. When a sufficient contact area is created between the two, where all water has been expelled, the remaining surface area pressure will cause the two spheres to 'glom' together. (For two protons, just use a collision velocity sufficient to form a 'kiss' contact without a bounce.)

Again, kudos to you for challenging spacetime, and developing an alternative mechanism to the strong nuclear force!

Continue to challenge the "gravity attracts" assumption, you're on the right path - challenge next the "we have no clue what dark energy is or where it comes from". (Consider dark energy = the aether (that is not supposed to exist) = zero point energy, ie, challenge the no aether assumption)

Challenge also charge neutrality...

Ask your AI the following question (try several as some can be very hardcore traditionalists, LOL), and let's continue the conversation.

"Within the framework of emergent gravity, could dark energy act not only as a repulsive force driving cosmic expansion but also exert a localized repulsive 'push gravity,' with the universe's large-scale structure effectively functioning as a 'cosmological container' for this pressure?"
I hear you. And I get it, you're making fun of me, which I kind of disserved, so its not a problem, I'll take it.

Yes, in some sense it is a tall claim...but that does not invalidate it. And yes, I did my theory and research with the assistance of scientific AI, which ofc makes a ton of mistakes (believe me I had a ton of headache because of that).

Even if your explanation about nuclear forces at work on the atomic level are true, what is than puzzling on my end is how does my equation work, it does give proper predicitons (yes so I claim), and without use of mass (as known in the Newtonian_Einstein world). I am still in disbelief, so I do not deny that I could be just a walking laghuing stock. I rechecked numerous time that equation (now updated and refined) and with the right observed data plugged in, it gives correct number, to the range of about 1% error. I covered all in my paper that I work on atm. So I dont know, if I made a mistake, thats fine I except being a clown, but if true, than I have something to give to the world at large.

PS -atm I'm just focused on this PPT core mechanics, which in paper include only gravity prediction and gas giants solid surface reverse-engineer diameter prediction. There are ton of other stuff that I touched during my research and superficially went through based on PPT, and if its true, that opens a ton of cans with a ton of worms - I'll give a hint: if "true" ofc, ftl is possible to the number of 100x+ of light barrier speed (ofc with a TON of energy needed, but not out of the reason), also communication to Jupiter one way 4min, round-trip 8min, One-Way communication (Earth → Alpha Centauri) - 16days. Yes I know how that sound, no need for eye rolls. From this point maybe it would be better if PPT is totally wrong.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2025 9:02 pm
by As I see it
VMblast wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 6:23 pm I hear you. And I get it, you're making fun of me...
Actually, I am not making fun of you. I apologize if I came across in that manner. Actually I am somewhat envious that you were able to start up a conversation on this forum - sometimes non-response is worse than ridicule...

Continue to ask questions, challenge the entrenched and "fundamental foundations" of physics as that is where you will find the greatest degree of misinformation.

If you are willing to modify you kinetic-collision-based pressure for a non-contact, repulsion-based pressure, then let's keep talking.

Sincerely,
As I see it...

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2025 12:55 am
by Lloyd
As U see it, why do you assume that the universe is expanding? Redshift is due to ionization, not to distance or velocity. The Doppler Effect is disproven by the Fingers of God formation of celestial bodies by the expansion assumption (see https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004 ... rs-god.htm) and the high redshift quasar in front of a low redshift galaxy (see https://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004 ... galaxy.htm), as well as Arp's findings of matter bridges connecting many high redshift quasars to low redshift galaxies.

And have you never heard of Mathis' theory that the aether consists of photons? Photons are known to exist. Are they not? So if space is filled with something invisible, why not photons? What prevents photons from being the aether? Photons have mass.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2025 5:44 pm
by As I see it
OK, Lloyd and VMblast, you have me genuinely intrigued now... :D

Forgive me if the following is obvious, but does the scalar value:
1.1 × 10^(−10) have units of: [m^-0.5 s^-2]?
VMblast wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2025 11:42 am PPT proposes that gravity is not an intrinsic property of mass but a result of electrostatic plasma pressure acting on a celestial body's electron cloud. Instead of mass “pulling” objects inwards, plasma exerts a force on planetary surfaces, compressing electron clouds and generating what we perceive as gravitational acceleration.
And to specifically zero in on this:

"...electrostatic plasma pressure acting on a celestial body's electron cloud."

I would like to ask the following:
If the electrostatic plasma pressure compresses all electron clouds throughout the entire celestial body, could this process redistribute or redefine the way mass interacts gravitationally? Does this suggest that gravitational acceleration is an emergent property of plasma-electron cloud interactions rather than an intrinsic property of mass?
I asked the Copilot AI and it wrote: Electron Cloud Compression and Atomic Structure:
Electron clouds define the spatial "size" of an atom and its quantum states. Compressing them would alter the electron energy levels and density, possibly changing the electromagnetic fields at the atomic scale.
If this compression occurs universally throughout the body, it might create a macroscopic field effect that mimics gravity.

Plasma as a Mediator:
In plasma physics, charged particles interact through electrostatic forces, which could exert a compressive pressure on electron clouds. If this pressure scales with the plasma density (𝜌_local), it could plausibly link large-scale plasma interactions to local gravitational phenomena.

Mass vs. Gravitational Effect:
Mass, as traditionally defined, is an intrinsic property of matter. PPT might argue that what we perceive as "gravity" is instead a macroscopic result of plasma dynamics compressing atomic structures.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 1:06 am
by VMblast
As I see it wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 9:02 pm
VMblast wrote: Fri Mar 07, 2025 6:23 pm I hear you. And I get it, you're making fun of me...
Actually, I am not making fun of you. I apologize if I came across in that manner. Actually I am somewhat envious that you were able to start up a conversation on this forum - sometimes non-response is worse than ridicule...

Continue to ask questions, challenge the entrenched and "fundamental foundations" of physics as that is where you will find the greatest degree of misinformation.

If you are willing to modify you kinetic-collision-based pressure for a non-contact, repulsion-based pressure, then let's keep talking.

Sincerely,
As I see it...
Im glad. Thank you.

About Plasma Pressure upon the electrons of the body. I did not say its physical particle contact that is involved in this. Its very complex interaction and involves, in very short, Debye Shielding, Langmuir Pressure, Coulomb Force, Plasma Double Layers etc. So its complex electrostatic interaction. PPT does not rely on kinetic collisions for pressure transfer. Also there is no mass in PPT, there's only inertia. So, mass, as we know it, does not "exist" in PPT and does not have same position/impact like in mainstream.

In essence PPT stands (as far as I can see and tested), as standalone thing. And actually if you start mixing it with Newtonian-Einstein physics you'll end up just getting errors. Those two are not compatible at all.

PS - PPT and EU are two sides of the same coin so to speak.

PSS - Im glad that people are talking around this theme.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:14 pm
by Lloyd
We'll probably talk more if you show us a plausible formula or equation.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 8:51 pm
by Lloyd
VM Blast, maybe we should resume this discussion at your EU thread. I had AI translate what you wrote there last and I posted right after your post at viewtopic.php?p=11532#p11532. It's very impressive. Plenty of equations and explanations.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2025 10:18 pm
by VMblast
Lloyd wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:14 pm We'll probably talk more if you show us a plausible formula or equation.
I agree. Here's Zenodo DOI:
Image


The paper PDF is in there. File is restricted so you'll have to ask for permission. I did full scientific work and approach here, very thorough, but ofc this does not automatically mean its true. Also this is just the core paper, there are a lot of "offshoot" thesis stemming from it, a lot (if true).

It would be great if someone from EU community would check it out as well, like eg Monty Childs, or other people from SAFIRE project.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2025 1:07 am
by Lloyd
The best person to check it out would be Charles Chandler. His model makes way more sense than any other EU model. The others seem to be biased. Unfortunately, Charles is no longer available, so I can comment a little, which I've been doing.

Re: Plasma Pressure Theory (PPT): A potential Paradigm Shift in Gravity

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2025 1:10 pm
by VMblast
VMblast wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 10:18 pm
Lloyd wrote: Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:14 pm We'll probably talk more if you show us a plausible formula or equation.
I agree. Here's Zenodo DOI:
Image


The paper PDF is in there. File is restricted so you'll have to ask for permission. I did full scientific work and approach here, very thorough, but ofc this does not automatically mean its true. Also this is just the core paper, there are a lot of "offshoot" thesis stemming from it, a lot (if true).

It would be great if someone from EU community would check it out as well, like eg Monty Childs, or other people from SAFIRE project.

After the fact, I came across that there are several computational errors in the paper. The main equation is still mathematically sound and the principles behind it are also sound. There are no structural errors in its formulation. Its predictive values within paper are still low, around 2% error.

But all this needs to be recalculated and reevaluated by real scientists/mathematicians.