Supermassive Black Holes And Magnetic Fields

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Supermassive Black Holes And Magnetic Fields

Re: Supermassive Black Holes And Magnetic Fields

by Maol » Wed Sep 24, 2025 4:36 pm

Robertus Maximus wrote: Wed Sep 24, 2025 1:03 pm This black hole flipped its magnetic field

The magnetic field of the imagined M87 black hole has switched directions.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/m87 ... etic-field

'The magnetic field swirling around an enormous black hole, located about 55 million light-years from Earth, has unexpectedly switched directions. This dramatic reversal challenges theories of black hole physics and provides scientists with new clues about the dynamic nature of these shadowy giants.'

'But observations of the accretion disk in the years that followed show that its magnetic field is not as stable as it first seemed, researchers report in a paper to appear in Astronomy & Astrophysics. In 2018, the magnetic field shifted and nearly disappeared. By 2021, the field had completely flipped direction.'

'“No theoretical models we have today can explain this switch,” says study coauthor Chi-kwan Chan, an astronomer at Steward Observatory in Tucson.'

'While researchers don’t yet know what caused the flip in this disk’s magnetic field, they think it could have been a combination of dynamics within the black hole and external influences.'

Again, no mention of electric currents but what are the 'external influences' to be considered?
I think the reversal or "flip" phenomena of rotating bodies is a natural function of gyroscopic precession.
Maol wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2024 10:47 am The Sun's magnetic field reverses, "flips", every eleven years. The Earth's magnetic field reversals are random with no apparent periodicity to their occurrence. They can happen as often as every 10 thousand years or so and as infrequently as every 50 million years or more. The last reversal was about 780,000 years ago.

Anyone who has ever played Water Polo or played with a beach ball or soccer ball or 'prison ball' in a swimming pool should have seen the ball land on the water with a high rate of spin on it and suddenly flip over as it slows down, perhaps more than once.

Observe a gyroscope in a gimbal, or even a simple one like the toy you stand on a peg, the precession causes it to wobble and if it is free to flip, like in the gimbal, it will turn over several times before it stops spinning.

If a solid inner core free to rotate in a liquid outer core, it stands to reason it will obey physical laws regarding gyroscopic precession, same as any other rotating body.

Re: Supermassive Black Holes And Magnetic Fields

by jacmac » Wed Sep 24, 2025 1:57 pm

This finding puts black holes into the same category as the big bang; non sense.

Re: Supermassive Black Holes And Magnetic Fields

by Robertus Maximus » Wed Sep 24, 2025 1:03 pm

This black hole flipped its magnetic field

The magnetic field of the imagined M87 black hole has switched directions.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/m87 ... etic-field

'The magnetic field swirling around an enormous black hole, located about 55 million light-years from Earth, has unexpectedly switched directions. This dramatic reversal challenges theories of black hole physics and provides scientists with new clues about the dynamic nature of these shadowy giants.'

'But observations of the accretion disk in the years that followed show that its magnetic field is not as stable as it first seemed, researchers report in a paper to appear in Astronomy & Astrophysics. In 2018, the magnetic field shifted and nearly disappeared. By 2021, the field had completely flipped direction.'

'“No theoretical models we have today can explain this switch,” says study coauthor Chi-kwan Chan, an astronomer at Steward Observatory in Tucson.'

'While researchers don’t yet know what caused the flip in this disk’s magnetic field, they think it could have been a combination of dynamics within the black hole and external influences.'

Again, no mention of electric currents but what are the 'external influences' to be considered?

Supermassive Black Holes And Magnetic Fields

by BeAChooser » Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:13 pm

https://phys.org/news/2022-11-supermass ... giant.html
Did supermassive black holes collapse directly out of giant clouds of gas? It could depend on magnetic fields

Roughly a half-century ago, astronomers realized that the powerful radio source coming from the center of our galaxy (Sagitarrius A*) was a "monster" black hole. Since then, they have found that supermassive black holes (SMBHs) reside at the center of most massive galaxies. This leads to what is known as Active galactic nuclei (AGN) or quasars, where the central region of a galaxy is so energetic that it outshines all of the stars in its galactic disk. In all that time, astronomers have puzzled over how these behemoths (which play a crucial role in galactic evolution) originated.

Astronomers suspect that the seeds that formed SMBHs were created from giant clouds of dust that collapsed without first becoming stars—aka, Direct collapse black holes (DCBHs). However, the role of magnetic fields in the formation of DCBHs has remained unclear since none of the previous studies have been able to simulate the full accretion periods. To investigate this, an international team of astronomers ran a series of 3D cosmological magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) simulations that accounted for DCBH formation and showed that magnetic fields grow with the accretion disks and stabilize them over time.

… snip …

The existence of SMBHs was originally proposed to explain the existence of high-redshift primordial SMBHs that existed within 1 billion years after the Big Bang. But as Latif and his colleagues explain, there were inconsistencies between what astrophysicists theoretically predicted and what astronomers have observed. In particular, there's the role that magnetic fields played in the accretion of material with primordial dust clouds, which eventually resulted in gravitational collapse and the formation of DCBHs.

"The standard model of physics does not provide any constraints on the initial magnetic field strength, and some models predict small B-fields of the order of 10-20 G," said Latif. "They are about many orders of magnitude smaller than observed fields (about 1G). Therefore, the scientific community thought that their role might be only secondary."

This mystery has persisted because previous attempts to simulate the formation of DCBHs numerically have been limited in scope. Previous simulations have lacked the computing power to simulate the accretion process's full length, which is considered comparable to the expected lifetime of SMSs—1.6 million years. Thanks to advances in supercomputing during the past decade, different research groups have conducted numerical simulations in the past decade that show that magnetic fields can be amplified within a short period.

Similarly, there's increasing evidence that magnetic fields were present roughly 13 billion years ago when DCBHs are expected to have formed. To address this mystery, Latif and his colleagues conducted a series of 3D cosmological magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) models that accounted for a lifetime of 1.6 million years:

Their findings are consistent with previous research by Latif and his colleagues (and other groups) that show how magnetic fields play a vital role in the formation of massive stars and black holes. These studies have shown how magnetic fields are amplified (increase in Jean mass) by accreting disks of gas and dust. These fields are responsible for reducing fragmentation and stabilizing the disks, eventually allowing these disks to achieve the mass necessary (aka. Jean mass) to experience gravitational collapse and form supermassive stars and black holes.

"Such strong magnetic fields can even launch jets and outflows and also help in transporting angular momentum, which is considered an obstacle for forming stars," explained Latif. "Therefore, they will have important implications for the magnetization of interstellar and intergalactic mediums (similar to what we observe in the local universe) and shaping the formation of high redshift galaxies as well as the evolution of massive black holes."
Notice … there's no mention of plasma or electric current in either the article or the paper itself: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2210.05611.pdf . They don't say where the magnetic fields that get “amplified” come from . They seem to believe in they just popped into existence out of nothing and then are frozen-in, I guess, although they don't use that term. In their simulations they "ASSUME" a "SEED" magnetic field of 10 ^^ -14 G which is “amplified” to 1G.

Comments?

Top