DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen: :geek: :ugeek:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Sun Feb 08, 2026 1:34 am

philalethes says, "The thing I couldn't place into this symbolic lexicon was that Anu had TWO sons, Enlil and Enki (Ea).
This twin phenom might relate to that mythos. :D"

That might be a match, and I hope you will keep us posted! If you find anything that links their representations to the plasma petroglyph clearly, I would love to hear more. Thanks again philalethes. It sent me down a very interesting avenue for a few hours (:

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by philalethes » Wed Feb 04, 2026 7:20 pm

Thanks for the Twins meme.
According to Cardona et al, "ANU" was old Sumerian name for Saturn as the God Star overhead.
The World Tree or Umbilicus, Squatterman, Jack's Beanstalk , Jacob's Ladder, etc., seems a severed or lost highway for souls to return Home; hence another reason we sense a disconnect that the Old Ones had as they "walked with God."
The thing I couldn't place into this symbolic lexicon was that Anu had TWO sons, Enlil and Enki (Ea).
This twin phenom might relate to that mythos. :D

DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Tue Feb 03, 2026 10:42 pm

In the book Coyote Was Going There edited by Jarold Ramsey, on page 41, there is a basket woven by a Wasco Indian, which pictures a pair of geometric human-like forms.
On another topic here I have been exploring the legends of Northwest Indian Tribes which talk about a period in pre-historic times when there was a change of Suns. That is, there are legends that describe the death of an old Sun and the replacement by a new Sun. One of the legends is from the Wasco Tribe:
  • This is a tale from a small tribe that lived along the mighty Columbia River, in three villages close to what is now the Dalles, and the Deschutes River. Today the Wasco tribe lives on the Warm Springs Indian Reservation with many other tribes of Oregon.

    Two Brothers Become Sun and Moon
    "A woman and her two sons lived below the Dalles."

    "...The mother told the boys to make bows and arrows, saying, 'I'll give you five quivers, and you can fill them. I'll trim robes for you with shells, then I'll tell you what to do.' The boys made arrows.

    She trimmed them beautiful robes, then said, 'I want to send you to kill Sun.' In those days the sun never moved out of his tracks, always stood directly overhead, and no living being could go far and live --so great was the heat.

    The mother said, 'When you kill the Sun, you can stay up there. One of you can be the Sun, the other Moon.' The boys were delighted. They started off and travelled south. When they got a little east of where Prineville now is, they wrestled with each other. Spider boy got thrown, and at that spot a great many camas roots came up. At every village to which they came, they told the people where they were going; and all were glad, for all were tired of Sun and his terrible heat. Finally the boys turned and travelled east, till they were nearly overcome by the heat.

    At last they came to a place from which, looking to the left, they could see a great ball of shining fire. They looked to the right, and there was a second ball of shining fire. They had gone up in the air, and had come to Moon's house. It was on the left side of Sun's house, not far away." "...Moon's daughter was very lame...The boys were amused when they saw her walk."

    "Moon's house was full of light, bright and dazzling. The boys ate, and then went out and came as near Sun's house as they could. It was so bright and hot that they couldn't get very near. They took their arrows and began to shoot at old Sun, who sat in his house. With their last arrow they killed the old man. Immediately there was no more strong light.

    They pulled out their arrows and said, 'We cannot both be Sun, we must kill Moon.' They killed Moon. Then they argued as to which should be Sun.

    The elder said, 'I will. I am older than you are. You can be Moon and take his daughter.' The younger brother agreed to this.

    Now the people below were very anxious to know where the two boys were who had travelled to the east. As the heat grew less and less, they said, 'It must be that the boys have done as they said.' The mother knew that they had been able to accomplish all they wished for. Now they went through the sky, and Moon followed Sun."
Hines, Donald M.. Celilo Tales, 1996.


What I would like to suggest is that the legends surrounding the Hero Twins and their depiction in art as looking very much like petroglyph forms, will lead to a better understanding of the events associated with these figures. In the case of NW and Canadian tribes, many of their legends retain stories of the sun darkening, aging, and being killed, and then being replaced by another sun. I thought the Wasco basket may be a depiction of the Two Brothers.

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Thu Jan 29, 2026 1:14 am

Now what is very interesting here is that Anthony Peratt discovered the Squatterman Petroglyph through extremely high current z-pinches. You can try to introduce a magnet after the current is flowing, but the electrical discharge itself comes from the largest capacitor bank on the planet.

The legends surrounding the Hero Twins do correlate very well with the Squatterman Petroglyphs in their most important aspects as follows:
  • 1 their representation in the Native American Tribal art as dynamic geometric forms
  • 2 their match with the Squatterman Petroglyphs themselves, which do at times appear as twins
  • 3 their actions in the myths which reflect the bolts of lightning both emanating from them towards the earth and also returning to them from the earth, in the form of "horned serpents" or "antlered serpents". These may be interpreted in the Electric Universe model as the return strokes branching back upward to the plasma form
I would like to share examples of the Twin Squatterman Petroglyphs from the rock art of the Columbia Plateau:
https://ibb.co/Jj2sK7Dt

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Tue Jan 06, 2026 7:53 pm

That is gorgeous! thanks for the beautiful image of Siva and the interpretation suggesting an alignment of celestial bodies, philalethes!

Here is a Thunderbolts Picture of the Day about the legends surrounding the destruction of cities in India by unimaginably huge electric discharges, in which Stephen Smith also explores the high temperatures required to glassify sand:

  • Mohenjo Daro
    • image: Some of the skeletons found at Mohenjo Daro

    October 22, 2013

    "Some have suggested ancient technology glassified these Indus Valley ruins but electricity is a more plausible explanation.

    Mesopotamia and the Fertile Crescent region are thought to be the “birthplace” of civilization and the central focus for human culture dating back to the beginning of recorded history. No one knows for sure just how old the generalized composite that we call “society” really is – both because of archeological deficiencies and because of radiometric disconformity – but one of the oldest sites is located in the Indus Valley of Pakistan and appears to date from around 3000-2500 BCE.

    There are many ways to date ancient artifacts and there are just as many ways to interpret the results from those techniques. It is not the purpose of this paper to address the difficulties inherent with using carbon 14, tree-rings, stratigraphic distribution, or any other methodology when attempting to place artifacts or habitations within a chronological sequence. Other articles have addressed those issues, as well as previous Picture of the Day discussions about radioactive decay rates and how external, ionizing sources can change isotope ratios.

    There is one intriguing aspect to Mohenjo-Daro that sets it apart from most ancient ruins. It is the one anomaly among several at the site that has caused some researchers to suggest that there might have been forces unleashed in the past that are comparable to modern weapons. Walls, pottery and other items found in the city have been turned into a kind of ceramic glass, indicating that they were exposed to thermal energy equivalent to 1500 Celsius. Evidence of ionizing radiation has also been found in some burial sites.

    The oldest myths of the Hindu religion, itself one of the oldest religions in the world, speak of gods flying in vehicles composed of dazzling light and intricately carved platforms called vimanas, that waged war with one another using energy beams of incredible power. In the Hindu religious text known as the Mahabharata, there is a description of one such vehicle:
    • “Gurkha flying in his swift and powerful Vimana hurled against the three cities of the Vrishis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousands suns, rose in all its splendor. It was the unknown weapon, the Iron Thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.”
    There are many speculations about what the vimanas were or what the Iron Thunderbolt might have been. Some of the more imaginative examples see UFO’s and alien spacecraft waging war against the backdrop of primitive humanity, leaving behind a mythological image of gods and demons in conflict. Since the old races were unable to comprehend the idea of technologies on such a vast scale, the only alternative was to invest the phenomena that they observed with divine power.

    Rather than presupposing a visitation from a super race of extraterrestrials, it is more probable that natural events – although orders of magnitude beyond what we experience today – imprinted themselves on the psyches of our ancestors and inspired the reports of gods in the sky.

    Several past Pictures of the Day dealt with gigantic geological formations all over the world and with craters exceeding 100 kilometers in diameter. In some cases, the craters are associated with glass spherules or large chunks of pure silica lying in broken pieces all over the desert floor. The fact that the Egyptians considered the “desert glass” from the Great Sand Sea to be sacred and used it to adorn their religious icons is significant because the vitrified walls of Mohenjo-Daro are also said to originate in the wars of the gods, or theomachia.

    What could account for fields of broken glass shards like those in Egypt, large sheets of glass like “Darwin glass” from Australia, and the fused pottery and melted ramparts of Mohenjo-Daro? In all these cases, it was probably gigantic plasma discharges in the form of lightning bolts and electric arcs that melted the ruins and fused the soils into glass. The timeframe is probably impossible to determine with any accuracy at this late date, but it seems evident that humanity had reached a high level of sophistication before being exposed to these cataclysmic events."

    Stephen Smith

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by philalethes » Sun Dec 21, 2025 11:09 pm

Here's image of art over my fridge!
The Squatterman is Navaho sand painting I found in a Trading Post store in Nevada.
I placed it over the traditional east Indian dancing Shiva, which seems to me, since steeping myself in EU symbolism, to be an image of Saturn Sun Triple Constellation Saturn-Venus-Mars...anthropomorphised as the Celestial Being

https://ibb.co/wZCBt45J

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Wed Dec 17, 2025 2:33 am

I found a t-shirt of the Cherokee battle between a Thunderer/Little Person and the Uktena/Snake with Antlers:

https://ibb.co/F4CDqVJg

This is a vintage t-shirt from a Chrokee Indian museum.

Size Large, if anyone needs a last minute Christmas present.

DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Fri Dec 12, 2025 2:34 am

Suggested Squatterman Petroglyph in the Legends of the North American Indians, or:
The Hero Twin/Monster Slayer Myths

cont'd

New Jersey and Rhode Island Tribes
  • The Lenape/Delaware Tribes:
    Mexaxcuk is the name of the Horned Serpent.
    Thunderbeings, or Pethakhuwayoh, are enemies of the horned serpents. These thunderbeings are sometimes portrayed as giant thunderbirds, and sometimes as sky beings with human attributes or forms, and they have power over lightning and thunder.
    In the Lenape Creation Story, Nanapush and Makimani are the names of the Twin Thunderbeings. Their mother was killed in childbirth. Nanapush is the brother who brought positive things into the world, while Makimani is responsible for bringing bad things into the world.
Here are two neighboring tribes that may share either a linguistic family, or have similar legends and names for things.
  • The Narrenganset People:
    There are no surviving legends of the Thunderbeings, but they seem to have been "anthropomorphic sky beings like the Thunderers of the Lenape. Some relate them to Thunderbirds."
    The Narrenganset mythological character Wetucks "shares similarities with Nanabush." He is known as a culture hero or "transformer."
    If he is similar or equivalent to Nanabush, his original twin brother may have been Hobomock, or the spirit of death. This may be another regional instance of Twin Thunders, one good and one bad.
  • The Niantic Tribe:
    Moshup is a hero or "transformer" figure. His wife Squant is a "Little Person" and has great magical powers. Hobomock is the manito of death and destructive opposition to the Great Spirit, or Cauntantowit. This may be another regional instance of Hero Twins who are separated in their roles of good brother/bad brother.

Earlier I said that the Hero Twins/Monster Slayers have many counterparts in the legends of the North American Indian Tribes. These are just a few examples from two different regions, New England and the Southeastern US, just to make good on the statement. There is no effort to include the legends themselves, just the names of the characters. There can sometimes be many surviving names of characters in legends, but few actual myths. I have not included other major characters in the legends such as the Creator and Rabbit or Coyote. I also previously cautioned about some of the folklore in which the Little People are not sky beings, but little dwarf-type figures. The horned serpents also have folklore in which they simply pull people down into the waters of lakes.





ref: native-languages.org
I have relied on the outstanding research and work of native-languages.org to find short descriptions and proper names of the Thunderbeings in these four states. The site is owned and operated by Native American researchers. The publisher has the very clearly stated view that "Shamans" and "Shamanism" are European fancies, not Native American words or roles. Despite a few broken links, it is a wonderful resource which I recommend.

DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Fri Dec 12, 2025 1:41 am

The Suggested Squatterman Petroglyph in the Legends of the North American Indians, or:
The Hero Twin/Monster Slayer Myths

by Paulina West

Georgia and South Carolina Tribes
  • The Creek Nation:
    By-the-Door and Thrown-Away are mythical twins whose mother was slain by a monster, and are known as "rowdy monster slayers."

    The Miccosukee Tribe:
    The Little Thunders are twin thunder gods.

    Cherokee Nation:
    As shared previously in the above Cherokee legend, the Thunderers or "Little People" were involved in slaying the old sun. The Thunderers are sky beings with power over lightning and thunder.
    Another powerful thunderbeing is the Tlanuwa, a giant thunderbird, known also for its battles with the horned serpent Uktena. If anyone remembers, we discussed the imagery of the horned serpent. A probable Electric Universe interpretation of the Horned Serpent is that it is a description of what's known as a return lightning bolt originating from the ground below, with characteristic branching lightning as it extends upward to meet the lightning discharges, striking from the intense plasma formation in the sky.

    The Chickasaw Tribe:
    Sint-Holo is the great horned serpent and avowed enemy of the Thunder spirits.

DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Fri Dec 12, 2025 1:10 am

Now earlier I was noting that the sand paintings of the Navajo and Zuni tribes represent the Hero Twins as dynamically geometric characters. There is no doubt of the Squatterman Petroglyph forms in their representations in art of the Monster Slayer/Hero Twins. I shared legends and descriptions of what the Monster Slayer Twin Brothers are known for, one Zuni and one Navaho.

And the question that followed from that is, "If the Hero Twins, or in this case, the Twin Sons of Changing Woman, provide a way in which the Squatterman Plasma Petroglyphs were clearly and unequivocally embodied in the legends, then what events surround these characters?"

This is an intriguing inquiry, because, if it hasn't been openly stated here before in this topic, there are several scenarios that have been suggested for the source of the intense plasma discharge z-pinch auroras in the sky, in antiquity. One of the original suggestions is that the Sun released a solar flare of enormous magnitude. Others, including Dave Talbott and Wal Thornhill, have put forward an extensively documented alternative for the extraordinary duration and for the global appearance of these Plasma Petroglyph forms. This includes planets at close proximity in a time of planetary instability in the Solar System, within prehistoric memory.

So again, if the Twin Sons of Changing Woman, and by association and extension, the Hero Twins of other legends, are in fact a personification of the Squatterman Plasma Petroglyph, then a survey of these legends may lead to a more complete description of the planetary catastrophes that brought about such a powerful plasma z-pinch aurora, and possibly also to the resulting changes to the landscape, and perhaps even to life.

I remarked that the Hero Twins/Monster Slayers were a familiar theme in myths and legends of the Native Americans across the US. I would like to share a few examples from two regions of the United States to start with.

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Tue Nov 25, 2025 9:14 pm

How Ahaiyutaa and Matsailema stole the Thunderstoneand the Lightning-Shaft 
A Zuni Legend 


Áhaiyúta and Mátsailéma, with their grandmother, lived where now stands the ancient Middle Place of Sacrifice on Thunder Mountain. One day they went out hunting prairie-dogs, and while they were running about from one prairie-dog village to another, it began to rain, which made the trail slippery and the ground muddy, so that the boys became a little wrathful. Then they sat down and cursed the rain for a brief space. Off in the south it thundered until the earth trembled, and the lightning-shafts flew about the red-bordered clouds until the two brothers were nearly blinded with the beholding of it. Presently the younger brother smoothed his brow, and jumped up with an exclamation somewhat profane, and cried out: "Elder brother, let us go to the Land of Everlasting Summer and steal from the gods in council their thunder and lightning. I think it would be fine fun to do that sort of thing we have just been looking at and listening to."

The elder brother was somewhat more cautious; still, on the whole, he liked the idea. So he said "Let us take our prairie-dogs home to the grandmother, that she shall have something to eat meanwhile, and we will think about going tomorrow morning." The next morning, bright and early, they started out. In vain the old grandmother called rather crossly after them: "Where are you going now?" She could get no satisfaction, for she knew they lied when they called back: "Oh, we are only going to hunt more prairie-dogs." It is true that they skulked round in the plains about Thunder Mountain a little while, as if looking for prairie-dogs. 

Then, picking up their wondrously swift heels, they sped away toward that beautiful country of the corals, the Land of Everlasting Summer. At last --it may be in the mountains of that country, which are said to glow like shells of the sea or the clouds of the sunset -- they came to the House of the Beloved Gods themselves. And that red house was a wondrous terrace, rising wall after wall, and step after step, like a high mountain, grand and stately; and the walls were so smooth and high that the skill and power of the little War-gods availed them nothing; they could not get in. "What shall we do?" asked the younger brother. "Go home," said the elder, "and mind our own affairs." 

"Oh, no," urged the younger, "I have it, elder brother. Let us hunt up our grandfather, the Centipede." "Good!" replied the elder. "A happy thought is that of yours, my brother younger." Forthwith they laid down their bows and quivers of mountain-lion skin, their shields, and other things, and set about turning over all the flat stones they could find. Presently, lifting one with their united strength, they found under it the very old fellow they sought. He doubled himself, and covered his eyes from the sharpness of the daylight. He did not much like being thus disturbed, even by his grandchildren, the War-gods, in the middle of his noonday nap, and was by no means polite to them. But they prodded him a little in the side, and said: "Now, grandfather, look here! We are in difficulty, and there is no one in the wide world who can help us out as you will."

The old Centipede was naturally flattered. He unrolled himself and viewed them with a look which he intended to be extremely reproachful and belittling. "Ah, my grandchildren," said he, "what are you up to now? Are you trying to get yourselves into trouble, as usual? No doubt of it! I will help you all I can; but the consequences be on your own heads!"  "That's right, grandfather, that's right! No one in the world could help us as you can," said one of them. "The fact is, we want to get hold of the thunder-stone and the lightning-shaft which the Rain-gods up there in the tremendous house keep and guard so carefully, we understand. Now, in the first place, we cannot get up the wall; in the second place, if we did, we would probably have a fuss with them in trying to steal these things. Therefore, we want you to help us, if you will." "With all my heart, my boys! But I should advise you to run along home to your grandmother, and let these things alone." 

"Oh, pshaw, nonsense! We are only going to play a little while with the thunder and lightning." "All right," replied the old Worm; "sit here and wait for me." He wriggled himself and stirred about, and his countless legs were more countless than ever with rapid motions as he ran toward the walls of that stately terrace. A vine could not have run up more closely, nor a bird more rapidly; for if one foot slipped, another held on; so the old Centipede wriggled himself up the sides and over the roof, down into the great sky-hole; and, scorning the ladder, which he feared might creak, he went along, head-downward, on the ceiling to the end of the room over the altar, ran down the side, and approached that most forbidden of places, the altar of the gods themselves. The beloved gods, in silent majesty, were sitting there with their heads bowed in meditation so deep that they heard not the faint scuffle of the Centipede's feet as he wound himself down into the altar and stole the thunder-stone. He took it in his mouth--which was larger than the mouths of Centipedes are now--and carried it silently, weighty as it was, up the way he had come, over the roof, down the wall, and back to the flat stone where he made his home, and where, hardly able to contain themselves with impatience, the two youthful gods were awaiting him. "Here he comes!" cried the younger brother, "and he's got it! By my war-bonnet, he's got it!" 

The old grandfather threw the stone down. It began to sound, but Áhaiyúta grabbed it, and, as it were, throttled its world-stirring speech. "Good! good!" he cried to the grandfather; "thank you, old grandfather, thank you!" "Hold on!" cried the younger brother; "you didn't bring both. What can we do with the one without the other?" "Shut up!" cried the old Worm. "I know what I am about!" And before they could say any more he was off again. Ere long he returned, carrying the shaft of lightning, with its blue, shimmering point, in his mouth.

"Good!" cried the War-gods. And the younger brother caught up the lightning, and almost forgot his weapons, which, however, he did stop to take up, and started on a full run for Thunder Mountain, followed by his more deliberate, but equally interested elder brother, who brought along the thunder-stone, which he found a somewhat heavier burden than he had supposed. 

It was not long, you may well imagine, so powerful were these Gods of War, ere they reached the home of their grandmother on the top of Thunder Mountain. They had carefully concealed the thunder-stone and the shaft of lightning meanwhile, and had taken care to provide themselves with a few prairie-dogs by way of deception.

Still, in majestic reverie, unmoved, and apparently unwitting of what had taken place, sat the Rain-gods in their home in the mountains of Summerland. Not long after they arrived, the young gods began to grow curious and anxious to try their new playthings. They poked one another considerably, and whispered a great deal, so that their grandmother began to suspect they were about to play some rash joke or other, and presently she espied the point of lightning gleaming under Mátsailéma's dirty jacket. "Demons and corpses!" she cried. "By the moon! You have stolen the thunder-stone and lightning-shaft from the Gods of Rain themselves! Go this instant and return them, and never do such a thing again!" she cried, with the utmost severity; and, making a quick step for the fireplace, she picked up a poker with which to belabor their backs, when they whisked out of the room and into another. 

They slammed the door in their grandmother's face and braced it, and, clearing away a lot of rubbish that was lying around the rear room, they established themselves in one end, and, nodding and winking at one another, cried out: "Now, then!" The younger let go the lightning-shaft; the elder rolled the thunder-stone. The lightning hissed through the air, and far out into the sky, and returned. The thunder-stone rolled and rumbled until it shook the foundations of the mountain. "Glorious fun!" cried the boys, rubbing their thighs in ecstasy of delight. "Do it again!" 

And again they sent forth the lightning and rolled the thunder-stone. And now the gods in Summerland arose in their majesty and breathed upon the skies; and the winds rose, and the rains fell like rivers from the clouds, centering their violence upon the roof of the poor old grandmother's house.

Heedlessly those reckless wretches kept on playing the thunder-stone and lightning-shaft without the slightest regard to the tremendous commotion they were raising all through the skies and all over Thunder Mountain; but nowhere else as above the house where their poor old grandmother lived fell the torrent of the rain, and there alone, of course, burst the lightning and rolled the thunder. 

Soon the water poured through the roof of the house; but, move the things as the old grandmother would, she could not keep them dry; scold the boys as she would, she could not make them desist. No, they would only go on with their play more violently than ever, exclaiming: "What has she to say, anyway? It won't hurt her to get a good ducking, and this is fun!" 

By-and-by the waters rose so high that they extinguished the fire. Soon they rose still higher, so that the War-gods had to paddle around half submerged. Still they kept rolling the thunder-stone and shooting the lightning. The old grandmother scolded harder and harder, but after a while desisted and climbed to the top of the fireplace, whence,after recovering from her exertion, she began again. But the boys heeded her not, only saying: "Let her yell! Let her scold! This is fun!" At last they began to take the old grandmother's scolding as a matter of course, and allowed nothing but the water to interrupt their pastime. It rose so high, finally, that they were near drowning. Then they climbed to the roof, but still they kept on. "By the bones of the dead! why did we not think to come here before? 'Tis ten times as fine up here. See him shoot!" cried one to the other, as the lightning sped through the sky, ever returning. "Hear it mutter and roll!" cried the other, as the thunder bellowed and grumbled. 

But no sooner had the Two begun their sport on the roof, than the rain fell in one vast sheet all about them; and it was not long ere the house was so full that the old grandmother--locked in as she was--bobbed her poor pate on the rafters in trying to keep it above the water. She gulped water, and gasped, coughed, strangled, and shrieked to no purpose. "What a fuss our old grandmother is making, to be sure!" cried the boys. And they kept on, until, forsooth, the water had completely filled the room, and the grandmother's cries gurgled away and ceased. Finally, the thunder-stone grew so terrific, and the lightning so hot and unmanageable, that the boys, drawing a long breath and thinking with immense satisfaction of the fun they had had, possibly also influenced as to the safety of the house, which was beginning to totter, flung the thunder-stone and the lightning-shaft into the sky, where, rattling and flashing away, they finally disappeared over the mountains in the south. 

Then the clouds rolled away and the sun shone out, and the boys, wet to the skin, tired in good earnest, and hungry as well, looked around. "Goodness! the water is running out of the windows of our house! This is a pretty mess we are in! Grandmother! Grandmother!" they shouted. "Open the door, and let us in!" But the old grandmother had piped her last, and never a sound came except that of flowing water. They sat themselves down on the roof, and waited for the water to get lower. Then they climbed down, and pounded open the door, and the water came out with a rush, and out with a rush, too, their poor old grandmother--her eyes staring, her hair all mopped and muddied, and her fingers and legs as stiff as cedar sticks. "Oh, ye gods! ye gods!" the two boys exclaimed; "we have killed our own grandmother--poor old grandmother, who scolded us so hard and loved us so much! Let us bury her here in front of the door, as soon as the water has run away." 

So, as soon as it became dry enough, there they buried her; and in less than four days a strange plant grew up on that spot, and on its little branches, amid its bright green leaves, hung long, pointed pods of fruit, as red as the fire on the breast of the red-bird. "It is well," said the boys, as they stood one day looking at this plant. "Let us scatter the seeds abroad, that men may find and plant them. It seems it was not without good cause that in the abandonment to our sport we killed our old grandmother, for out of her heart there sprung a plant into the fruits of which, as it were, has flowed the color as well as the fire of her scolding tongue; and, if we have lost our grandmother, whom we loved much, but who loved us more, men have gained a new food, which, though it burn them, shall please them more than did the heat of her discourse please us. Poor old grandmother! Men will little dream when they eat peppers that the seed of them first arose from the fiery heart of the grandmother of Áhaiyúta and Mátsailéma."

Thereupon the two seized the pods and crushed them between their hands, with an exclamation of pleasure at the brisk odor they gave forth. They cast the seeds abroad, which seeds here and there took root; and the plants which sprang from them being found by men, were esteemed good and were cultivated, as they are to this day in the pepper gardens of Zuni. 

Ever since this time you hear that mountain wherein lived the gods with their grandmother called Thunder Mountain; and often, indeed, to this day, the lightning flashes and the thunder plays over its brows and the rain falls there most frequently. 

It is said by some that the two boys, when asked how they stole the lightning-shaft and the thunder-stone, told on their poor old grandfather, the Centipede. The beloved Gods of the Rain gave him the lightning-shaft to handle in another way, and it so burned and shriveled him that he became small, as you can see by looking at any of his numerous descendants, who are not only small but appear like a well-toasted bit of buckskin, fringed at the edges.  

DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Tue Nov 25, 2025 8:42 pm

There are 6 languages of the Pueblo Indians, and 21 Pueblo tribes. The Zunis are among them and constitute a distinct linguistic family. Zuni Native American tribes live in New Mexico. Visitors are welcome to come to some cultural events, but photos are usually only by permission of the tribe. Traditional basketry, weaving and pottery making as well as silver and turquoise jewelry making are still passed down through generations, as are the irrigation and growing methods learned from previous generations. Sheep herding is also still practiced by some Zuni, like with many of the SW tribes.

I am going to share a Zuni story called "How Ahaiyutaa and Matsailema stole the Thunderstone and the Lightning-Shaft."

It will appear long, but just imagine how much of a miracle it is that these stories have been passed down with so much detail. If Immanuel Velikovsky, Dave Talbott, Wal Thornhill, and others are correct, these stories have preserved events from an epoch of great plasma and electric discharges in the sky.

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Mon Nov 24, 2025 10:06 pm

Keyser's preferred interpretation is that the petroglyphs are linked closely with "shamanism", a common thesis among anthropologists regarding petroglyphs. Dave Talbott addresses this view in "Stickman on Stone":
  • "Evidence gathered from around the world has made abundantly clear that in the ancient times, intense electrical activity above observers on earth was the subject of massive collective endeavors to record the forms on stone. Especially compelling is the rock art theme called the Stickman. The illustrations shown here compare a well documented electric discharge form in the laboratory to the remarkably similar rock art carvings from different parts of the world."

    "Of course the majority of rock art authorities, particularly those with primary interest in Native American sources, argue that only the images of the Sun, Moon and stars reflect actual celestial phenomena. Apart from such associations most authorities claim that global patterns do not exist. Rather, they tell us, the ancient artists projected onto stone the subjective content of shamanistic trances. Peratt's investigations say the opposite, that the most fundamental patterns of rock art occur globally. Through massive labors...the artists carved onto stone observed electric discharge phenomena in the heavens."
https://youtu.be/JBVFClsXJII?si=8DFAaUfrHvEEstCE&t=149

From 2:17 to 6:45 Dave Talbott presents the plasma instabilities as they would have metamorphosed from one form to another in the sky, and their relation to the rock art seen worldwide. One of the briefest and most powerful instabilities is the many-legged Kayenta pictograph at 6:15.

In one particular Zuni legend I would like to share next, notice the role of the Old Man, Grandfather Centipede in helping the two brothers to steal the Thunderstone and the Lightning-shaft.

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Mon Nov 24, 2025 10:04 pm

In his book on the rock art of the Columbia Plateau, James D Keyser has gathered a large collection of twin-figure petroglyphs. After discussing the beliefs of northwest tribes regarding the sometimes-awe-inspiring birth of human twins, he goes on to say this about the strange, otherworldly petroglyph forms:
  • "Beliefs about twins are only one part of the duality characteristic of Columbia Plateau cosmology. Folk tales also tell of the 'Transformers,' a pair of culture heroes who figure prominently in some Salishan world creation myths.

    Though not twins, these men possessed the extraordinarily supernatural power and at the beginning had taught people many aspects of Salishan culture. Among their powers was the ability to turn evil persons to stone. At the end of the world, the Transformers were to return as judges for eternity....

    What these twin figures specifically meant to the artists who painted or carved them are lost in the mists of time, but undoubtedly they were made for supernatural purposes."
I'd love to share these twin-forms after I deal with some battery problems!



ref: Keyser, James D., Indian Rock Art of the Columbia Plateau, 1992.

Re: DAVE TALBOTT: Stickman on Stone

by Brigit » Mon Nov 24, 2025 8:04 pm

The sand paintings of the Navajo and Zuni tribes represent the Hero Twins as dynamically geometric characters. If the Hero Twins, or in this case, the Twin Sons of Changing Woman, provide a way in which the Squatterman Plasma Petroglyphs were clearly and unequivocally embodied in the legends, then what events surround these characters?

Who were the Twin Sons of Changing Woman and what are they remembered for?
  • "The Navajos envisioned a series of worlds that were destroyed before this world (the number varies). People escaped from each world, bringing a token from the previous era. As in the Zuni myth, the earlier, wet and muddy worlds were dominated by monsters, which were created before human beings and preyed on them.

    Some monsters even pursued people into successive worlds. But the Sun gave special lightning bolts to the twin sons of Changing Woman, so that they overcame the monsters. The twins became the heroic Monster Slayers." ~Adrienne Mayor
The Twins Sons of Changing Woman turned many of the monsters to stone.

Again, if the Twin Sons of Changing Woman, and by association and extension, the Hero Twins of other legends, are in fact a personification of the Squatterman Plasma Petroglyph, then a survey of these legends may lead to a more complete description of the planetary catastrophes that brought about such a powerful plasma z-pinch aurora, and the resulting changes to the landscape, and perhaps even to life.



ref: pg 119. In her book The Fossil Legends of the First Americans, A. Mayor examines traditions surrounding the fossil "monsters," and she speculates that the Native Americans must have created stories to explain the death and burial of the gigantic, extinct creatures.

Top