Redshift caused by plasma and more

[Zyxzevn]

Overview by See The Pattern

5 Alternative Explanations for the Redshift we Observe

There is mounting evidence that the redshift that is observed for most celestial objects in our Universe may not be due to recessional velocity. In this episode we examine what redshift is and 5 alternative explanation which cast doubt on the assumption that redshift is due only to recessional velocity.

Mainstream:
1. Doppler Redshift
2. Cosmological Redshift via space expansion
3. Gravitational Redshift
Alternatives:

1. Compton Scattering
Individual electrons are pushed by light.
This causes a redshift. The redshift depends on the incoming frequency and also giver a blurring effect on the spectral lines.

2. Billiouin Scattering & Raman Scattering
Non linear transparent material (usually crystal) gives off a redshifted wave into a certain direction.
The spectrum gives extra lines on both sides of each spectral line.

3. Variable Mass Hypothesis for Quasars (Theory by Halton Arp)
The redshift of quasars might be caused by a different state of matter.
In this model matter can be created out of the centre of a galaxy (maybe from Neutrinos),
and slowly grow into stable matter. During this growth process the matter changes and its redshift.

4. The Wolf Effect
Gives a clear Redshift in matter but also blueshift.
The non-linear scattering causes light to shift red and blue into different direction.
This needs matter to be aligned into a certain direction.

5. Plasma Redshift - Ari Brynjolfsson
Plasma causes redshift due to a certain quantum state.
This transfers energy from the light into the plasma in the form of heat (and possibly pressure).


Wolf Effect Papers:
Non-cosmological redshifts of spectral lines
Beyond the paywall
Spectral shifts produced by source correlations
Beyond the paywall

Plasma Red-shift papers:
Redshift of photons penetrating a hot plasma - Ari Brynjolfsson
Intrinsic Plasma Redshifts Now Reproduced In The Laboratory–a Discussion in Terms of New Tired Light.

Plasma redshift in laboratory
Investigation of the mechanism of spectral emission and redshifts of atomic line in laser-induced plasmas
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2608000089

Abstract

In low-temperature plasmas, the specific emission mechanism and the evolvement of the continuum and isolated lines are quite complex, which are described in detail. The calculations from the Stark-broadening measurement of individual lines show the density to be of the order of magnitude of 1018 cm−3. It is seen that the redshifts of spectral lines detected in this experiment are influenced by the electron density. A possible reason for this is given.

**From the article**

This is the reason for the redshift:

The recombination radiation is a free–bound radiative
transition effect. During this course, a free electron
combines with an ion into a certain bound state.
Meanwhile, the excess energy being carried away by a
photon is irradiated in the form of electromagnetic wave.

In normal words:
*The light is captured by the free electrons and re-emitted.
But during a small time the electrons are in a higher energy state,
and moving through space.
And while the electrons move, they lose energy.
This causes light to be re-emitted at a slightly lower energy-level and frequency.*

More free electrons give more redshift:

Preliminary analysis indicates that, when the electron
density increases, the difference of the atomic energy
levels is reduced, and then the redshift is raised

Strong electric fields inside the plasma cause broadening of the spectral lines.

Stark broadening caused by ion- and electron-
produced electric fields tends to dominate over other
impacts for lines from plasmas.

This latter may be happening in "quasars".

There is also a time-delay component dependent on the light-frequency.
This is also observed during novas in space.
Similar to the slowing down of light in the Safire experiment.

Article beyond the paywall

Some "discussion" here

Sun's Plasma Redshift

Our Sun's Center-to-Limb Redshift: A Puzzle

Abstract

After the red/blue-shift due to our Sun's rotation is subtracted from the data, there remains a puzzling center-to- limb redshift which incereases by a 3:1 ratio at the limb. This variation contrasts to the expected gravitational redshift that should be independent of center-to-limb position. The observed functional variation is consistent with a photon energy-loss mechanism in the Sun's ``plasma atmosphere.'' Several different energy-loss redshift mechanisms have been proposed including.....

MichaelMonzina:
When we study redshift patterns from around our own solar atmosphere, we find evidence that plasma redshift is the real cause of photon redshift in space. It was once believed that space was a near vacuum. Now we know it's a dusty plasma environment that interacts with light. Photons traveling through a plasma medium lose energy to the plasma atmosphere. The greater the amount of plasma that the light has to traverse, the more redshift we observe. Its no mystery then why there's a distance/redshift relationship to objects in space. The more plasma that light must traverse, the more it loses momentum to the plasma medium. In such an environment, a static universe also automatically predicts the existence of a distance/redshift relationship, albeit an non-expanding explanation for photon redshift. In some few instance, galaxy movement might also be toward us or away from us. It's a somewhat more complex environment than trying to treat space as an empty vacuum.This observation from solar physics suggests that all redshift in space is plasma redshift related. The more plasma that the light has to traverse, the more potential for it to transfer momentum to that plasma, even though that particular photons reaches a telescope on Earth.If you look at history of astronomy it's clear that astronomers oversimplified the environment of space. It's not the 'empty vacuum' they envisioned in the 1800-1950's. It wasn't until satellites in space measured the first currents in Birkeland currents around our planet that astronomers started to take any part of Kristian Birkeland's work seriously and even today few astronomers know anything about his larger body of work.

Discussion here

Gravitational Redshift


An observation decades in the making confirms predictions about how light behaves in an immense gravitational field
""Milky Way's Black Hole Provides Long-Sought Test of Einstein's General Relativity"


More resources
Red Shift Riddles
Articles by Halton C. Arp

8 Reasons Quasars are not what they seem and why we can't trust Redshift
- See the Pattern

FermiLab - Very mainstream
Why does light slow down in water
It takes 8 minutes before he starts answering the question:
The dielectric medium creates its own oscillating electrical field in opposite direction and slightly delayed.
This new wave replaces the original wave, with each step deeper into the dielectric medium.
At the end the dielectric puts a wave out that is completely shifted and delayed compared to the first incoming wave.
This output wave appears slowed down compared to the incoming wave.
Why does light bend when it enters glass
Now it takes 10 minutes before he starts answering the question using the Maxwell equations.
The electromagnetic wave is affected by the dielectric.
The electric component of the wave is replaced by the electric component in the dielectric.
And this is only possible with a different wave-direction.

In other simpler words: Light is an electromagnetic wave.
The electric component of the electromagnetic wave is affected in a dielectric medium and this bends the wave
into a certain direction.
It can even bend to only follow the surface:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_field

[Zyxzevn]

Just found this:

The Effects of Plasma Lensing on the Inferred Dispersion Measures of Fast Radiobursts
Abstract + paywall
Open access (pdf)

Radio signals are delayed when propagating through plasma. This type of delay is frequency dependent and is
usually used for estimating the projected number density of electrons along the line of sight, called the dispersion
measure (DM). The dense and clumpy distribution of plasma can cause refractive deflections of radio signals,
analogous to lensing effects. Similar to gravitational lensing, there are two contributions to the time delay effect in
plasma lensing: a geometric delay, due to increased path length of the signal, and a dispersive delay due to the
change of speed of light in a plasma medium. We show the delay time for two models of the plasma distribution,
and point out that the estimated DM can be biased. Since the contribution of the geometric effect can be
comparable to that of the dispersive delay, the bias in the measured DM can be dramatically large if plasma lensing
effects are not taken into account when signals propagate through a high-density gradient clump of plasma

[Higgsy]

There are only two things you need to consider to be sure that cosmological redshift is not caused by a refractive or re-emissive mechanism: lack of spectral dispersion and lack of blurring of distant objects.

Note: clarification added in edit that I am referring to cosmological redshift.

[orrery]

The number of Ptolemaic circles one has to invent to defend the notion that light travels through the vacuum of space while simultaneous!y observing that space is not a vacuum will always confound and mistify those with an even an ounce of common sense.

That there are still cosmologists out there who entertain the notion of Doppler or cosmological redshift while simultaneously preaching the instantaneous packet nature of light would be laughable in no stretch of time if their traps weren't so ridiculously destructive to potentially bright minds.

[Michael Mozina]

There are only two things you need to consider to be sure that cosmological redshift is not caused by a refractive or re-emissive mechanism: lack of spectral dispersion and lack of blurring of distant objects.

Note: clarification added in edit that I am referring to cosmological redshift.

Perhaps you could show us a Z>10 image of a galaxy that isn't "blurred"? Plenty of proposed tired light mechanisms wouldn't necessarily cause spectral dispersion. The last x-ray study of redshift that I read, while showing a good correlation with the visible spectrum in most cases, also showed a large number of "catastrophic failures" that didn't correlate very well to the visible spectrum. How do you then know that there is a lack of spectral dispersion in all cases?

[Higgsy]

The number of Ptolemaic circles one has to invent ...

So what exactly is your proposed mechanism for the redshift/distance mechanism?

[orrery]

The number of Ptolemaic circles one has to invent ...

So what exactly is your proposed mechanism for the redshift/distance mechanism?

Ari did a fine enough job already. No need to reinvent the wheel, going beyond that is just fools living in paradigms more fit for fantasy than reality.

[Higgsy]

The number of Ptolemaic circles one has to invent ...

So what exactly is your proposed mechanism for the redshift/distance mechanism?

Ari did a fine enough job already. No need to reinvent the wheel, going beyond that is just fools living in paradigms more fit for fantasy than reality.

Who is this Ari of whom you speak. And what is his proposed mechanism?

[Zyxzevn]

I could call it "dark redshift" and collect a Nobel prize, for explaining most of
the observations in astronomy. It would remove the need for "dark energy",
and much more.

My current theory on Redshift is based on how matter reacts to light.
Any light pushes all matter forwards, even when all of the light passes through.
I should call this "dielectric plasma redshift"

During the transit of light through dielectric matter, produces interfering waves with the matter.
(See FermiLabs videos.)
The dielectric itself removes all the incoming light, and the out-going light is produced by the
dielectric material itself. This causes light to slow down as it passes through dielectric.
Denying this fact, means that you have to complain with FermiLabs.
I repeat: None of the incoming light comes out of a dielectric material!
So none of the light of a star that we see is the original light.
This is not emission (electron band change), but dielectric wave interference.

Energy transfer:
In sparse free floating dielectric matter, the matter is also accelerated by the light.
The accelerated matter also interacts with each other, transferring some of the energy to heat.
This causes the dielectric outgoing light to be different than the incoming light.
This subject is not researched much, because it is an edge-case.

From observations it appears to me that this outgoing light has slightly lower frequency than the incoming light.

Now the discussion part:
But shouldn't the intensity of the light change as well?
No, not much: The dielectric does not absorb any energy, except that it is pushed forward a bit.
Otherwise all air, glass or water would look black.
This means that the outgoing light is producing the same amount of light, but decreased
in frequency to match the change in speed.

Estimate:
The amount of redshift depends:
a) on the push force of the light, (linear with frequency F)
b) transfer of the push force of the light to the material, (estimated: 1/F)
c) and the loss of speed in the material. (depends on ionization)

b. can be tested with plasma with strong lasers.
Maybe laser-fusion experiments can give some insights in this.

[orrery]

The number of Ptolemaic circles one has to invent ...

So what exactly is your proposed mechanism for the redshift/distance mechanism?

Ari did a fine enough job already. No need to reinvent the wheel, going beyond that is just fools living in paradigms more fit for fantasy than reality.

Who is this Ari of whom you speak. And what is his proposed mechanism?

This forces me to conclude that you didn't read the OP

[Zyxzevn]

This forces me to conclude that you didn't read the OP

No he never does that.

[crawler]

I could call it "dark redshift" and collect a Nobel prize, for explaining most of
the observations in astronomy. It would remove the need for "dark energy",
and much more.

My current theory on Redshift is based on how matter reacts to light.
Any light pushes all matter forwards, even when all of the light passes through.
I should call this "dielectric plasma redshift"

During the transit of light through dielectric matter, produces interfering waves with the matter.
(See FermiLabs videos.)
The dielectric itself removes all the incoming light, and the out-going light is produced by the
dielectric material itself. This causes light to slow down as it passes through dielectric.
Denying this fact, means that you have to complain with FermiLabs.
I repeat: None of the incoming light comes out of a dielectric material!
So none of the light of a star that we see is the original light.
This is not emission (electron band change), but dielectric wave interference.

Energy transfer:
In sparse free floating dielectric matter, the matter is also accelerated by the light.
The accelerated matter also interacts with each other, transferring some of the energy to heat.
This causes the dielectric outgoing light to be different than the incoming light.
This subject is not researched much, because it is an edge-case.

From observations it appears to me that this outgoing light has slightly lower frequency than the incoming light.

Now the discussion part:
But shouldn't the intensity of the light change as well?
No, not much: The dielectric does not absorb any energy, except that it is pushed forward a bit.
Otherwise all air, glass or water would look black.
This means that the outgoing light is producing the same amount of light, but decreased
in frequency to match the change in speed.

Estimate:
The amount of redshift depends:
a) on the push force of the light, (linear with frequency F)
b) transfer of the push force of the light to the material, (estimated: 1/F)
c) and the loss of speed in the material. (depends on ionization)

b. can be tested with plasma with strong lasers.
Maybe laser-fusion experiments can give some insights in this.

How does your redshift theory fare in relation to delays & intervals & gaps & durations (ie timescale stretch)?

Tired-light hypotheses and the cosmologies that depend on them are not generally considered plausible.

Here is the irresoluble problem: Even if the energy loss mechanism can be made to work, there is a critical feature that simply cannot be explained. There is no way to explain the increased delay between weakened pulses; the increased time intervals between redshifted light pulses. There is no explanation for the elongation of the "gaps" between photons!

Astrophysicists, including G. Burbidge and Halton Arp, while investigating the mystery of the nature of quasars, tried to develop alternative redshift mechanisms but were thwarted by the essential time-stretch feature. It was pointed out in Goldhaber et al "Timescale Stretch Parameterization of Type Ia Supernova B-Band Lightcurves" (ApJ, 558:359–386, 2001) that alternative theories are simply unable to account for timescale stretch observed in the emission profiles of type Ia supernovae.

The tired-light hypotheses/mechanisms cannot explain (i) The elongation of the time interval between light pulses, (ii) nor the duration interval of the bursts of light, such as the duration of supernovae explosions. The more distant such events, the longer they appear to take —the greater their time duration seems to be. No weakened-light concept can deal with this reality.

[Higgsy]

The number of Ptolemaic circles one has to invent ...

So what exactly is your proposed mechanism for the redshift/distance mechanism?

Ari did a fine enough job already. No need to reinvent the wheel, going beyond that is just fools living in paradigms more fit for fantasy than reality.

Who is this Ari of whom you speak. And what is his proposed mechanism?

This forces me to conclude that you didn't read the OP

Ah - I didn't realise you were on first name terms with the late Dr Brynjolfsson. I note that a) said Dr Brynjolfsson's paper was never accepted for publication and b) in the very begiinning of his analysis he invalidly ascribed the Poynting vector to a single photon. The Poynting vector is defined for a field in classical electromagnetism. There is no valid definition of the Poynting vector for a single photon in QM (nor can there be because the vector is well defined in time and space whereas the propagating photon is not). Since the entire huge paper starts from this invalid definition, I skimmed but did not study the rest. There are other problems with his analysis that I noticed, even with a quick assessment, but this one is a gaping hole that brings it all down.

[Higgsy]

I could call it "dark redshift" and collect a Nobel prize, for explaining most of
the observations in astronomy. It would remove the need for "dark energy",
and much more.

My current theory on Redshift is based on how matter reacts to light.
Any light pushes all matter forwards, even when all of the light passes through.
I should call this "dielectric plasma redshift"

During the transit of light through dielectric matter, produces interfering waves with the matter.
(See FermiLabs videos.)
The dielectric itself removes all the incoming light, and the out-going light is produced by the
dielectric material itself. This causes light to slow down as it passes through dielectric.
Denying this fact, means that you have to complain with FermiLabs.
I repeat: None of the incoming light comes out of a dielectric material!
So none of the light of a star that we see is the original light.
This is not emission (electron band change), but dielectric wave interference.

Energy transfer:
In sparse free floating dielectric matter, the matter is also accelerated by the light.
The accelerated matter also interacts with each other, transferring some of the energy to heat.
This causes the dielectric outgoing light to be different than the incoming light.
This subject is not researched much, because it is an edge-case.

From observations it appears to me that this outgoing light has slightly lower frequency than the incoming light.

Now the discussion part:
But shouldn't the intensity of the light change as well?
No, not much: The dielectric does not absorb any energy, except that it is pushed forward a bit.
Otherwise all air, glass or water would look black.
This means that the outgoing light is producing the same amount of light, but decreased
in frequency to match the change in speed.

Estimate:
The amount of redshift depends:
a) on the push force of the light, (linear with frequency F)
b) transfer of the push force of the light to the material, (estimated: 1/F)
c) and the loss of speed in the material. (depends on ionization)

b. can be tested with plasma with strong lasers.
Maybe laser-fusion experiments can give some insights in this.

Have you calculated the cross-section for interaction of a photon with matter in the IGM?

[Zyxzevn]

....
The tired-light hypotheses/mechanisms cannot explain (i) The elongation of the time interval between light pulses, (ii) nor the duration interval of the bursts of light, such as the duration of supernovae explosions. The more distant such events, the longer they appear to take —the greater their time duration seems to be. No weakened-light concept can deal with this reality.

I think that could be selective data, and needs to be more studied over a wider range.
In the laboratory experiment, there were different light-speeds in frequency, can be tested well.

The dielectric slows down the incoming light by removing it completely with wave interference,
and replace it with a new outgoing wave.

There some room for play there.
The electromagnetic (light) wave reacts to 4 possible things:
1. dielectric constant
2. magnetic constant
3. time-delay (reaction time of electrons around atom).
4. movement due to radiation pressure.

(3). Is visible in superconducting material.
(4). This happens more in gas/plasma.

So my hypothesis is that 4 causes the redshift.
But 3 may can cause light-stretching as well.

3. Can be estimated from tests in laboratory.
Popular science article
They put a super conducting system in a quantum state, and measure how long it takes to change the state.
My hypothesis is that this delays the dielectric wave as well.
4. Radiation pressure is a well know physical phenomenon, but how is it transferred?

In the video Light going through water bottle
the pulse seems stretched out and acts weird through the liquid medium.
That is probably how it behaves in plasma too, but crossing many lightyears.

Let me explain the redshift in a slightly different way:
The electron-shell is receives the EM-wave, and reacts to it, to send it further.
The shell is a bit like a balloon.
It is also pushed forward a bit, while receiving it.
But the reaction is slow, and the electron-shell is soon pulled backward by the nucleus,
while it sends out the new wave.
The outward wave is now redshifted very slightly.
While the atom is pushed forward a bit, minimal energy is lost in this mechanism.
This energy may be converted to a longer light pulse, as if the electron shell is still sending out
the old signal. But that would be more erratic at the end, I think.
A bit like we see in the water bottle video.