The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Has science taken a wrong turn? If so, what corrections are needed? Chronicles of scientific misbehavior. The role of heretic-pioneers and forbidden questions in the sciences. Is peer review working? The perverse "consensus of leading scientists." Good public relations versus good science.
User avatar
D_Archer
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:01 am

The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by D_Archer » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:45 am

Hi,

Veritasium did the following video, yt link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIhgxav9LY

What do you guys think?

I think he misses to talk about the charge field (real photons as per Miles Mathis that do the work) and that there is nothing flowing in wires is known to the thunderbolts people for very long now, so this mainstream science mouth piece is catching up... but still with so many wrong verbiage and confused/wrong statements, it is tough to take it apart.

The experiment still requires an answer, some pundits on youtube called veritasium out for being wrong.... yes he is wrong... but what is right?

My instant hunch was that it was instant, the length of the wire does not matter, the charge field is local, so the only loading time is the time it takes the lightbulb filament to start glowing.... i could be wrong though..

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -

User avatar
spark
Posts: 296
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by spark » Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:33 pm

Electrical engineer Electroboom on Veritasium video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iph500cPK28

jacmac
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:36 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by jacmac » Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:41 pm

I am a still fan of the speed of light for the speed of electric current.
The speed seems instant because with switch open the voltage is there already at the switch.
You don't wait for it to come from the battery when you close the switch.
It is similar to the speed of gravity problem I think.
The gravity connection of sun and earth, for example, is established; therefore seems instant.
IMO.

User avatar
D_Archer
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:01 am

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by D_Archer » Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:27 pm

jacmac wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:41 pm I am a still fan of the speed of light for the speed of electric current.
The speed seems instant because with switch open the voltage is there already at the switch.
You don't wait for it to come from the battery when you close the switch.
It is similar to the speed of gravity problem I think.
The gravity connection of sun and earth, for example, is established; therefore seems instant.
IMO.
ElectroBOOM YT> How Wrong Is VERITASIUM? A Lamp and Power Line Story > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iph500cPK28

This guy also says the correct answer is E, none of the above.

He explains that the premise/question by Veritasium is a trick. Wire without resistance (not possible) and the light turns on with any current level, this would mean it is always on! I liked the explanation about how any length of wire is a resistor.

So.... the question is a trick and there is no real answer.

I would say Veritasium is obfuscating on purpose...

Regards,
Daniel

ps. I watched a lot of YT videos about the veritasium video, but this electroboom guy was the best i saw by far, most other seem to even know less about electricity then Veritasium....a shame.
- Shoot Forth Thunder -

crawler
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by crawler » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:35 am

Veritasium has copped a lot of flak, some of it saying that he intended to cause controversy, & that he deliberately chose his words to maximise the reactions.

It is clear to me that (although he welcomes the controversy & the hits)(=$$$$) he did not intend to confuse.

It is clear to me that…

(1) it was he who was confused

(2) he genuinely believed that there would be a huge current in the bulb at the early time of 1/c sec (ie about 3.3 ns)

(3) he believed that the huge early current would be due to Poynting (mainly from the battery)

(4) he believed that the Poynting that follows the wires would arrive at the bulb later (at 1 s)

(5) he believed that the 1/c current would be slightly stronger than the 1 s current (based on one of his sources), but in the youtube he says that it will be less than the 1 s current (just hedging his bet).

(6) he did not give any consideration to the possibility of any kind of possible XT (crosstalk)(coupling)(at least he did not mention XT)(or, if he did give consideration, then i reckon that he considered that XT would be a weak effect, not worth mentioning)(or, that he considered that XT would in any case have the same delay, 1/c, & would not affect the answer to his question)

(7) he has now realised his mistake(s)

(8) he is not admitting to any of the above, because it would confirm that he was ignorant (as are all of us, in varying degrees)

(9) he much prefers the charge of being selfish (me too).
Last edited by crawler on Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
STR is krapp -- & GTR is mostly krapp.
The present Einsteinian Dark Age of science will soon end – for the times they are a-changin'.
The aether will return – it never left.

crawler
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by crawler » Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:59 am

Veritasium is correct that the bulb will turn on in 1/c seconds (about 3.3 ns for the spacing of 1 m)(or at least there will be a small voltage at the bulb in 1/c s)(whether the V will make the bulb glow is another question).
The small voltage will be due to XT (3 kinds of crosstalk) acting from the battery wire (the switch wire) to the bulb wire .
The 3 kinds are -- radio XT, capacitance XT, & inductance XT.

All of these 3 XTs probably cause 3 different short & weak spikes in the voltage/current at the bulb.
The spikes might each peak at 3.3 ns (i would need to have a think).
The 3 spikes will combine to form one spike. They probably add, but might negate at times (i would need to have a think).

A spike does not contradict Veritasium -- he merely said/asked when would the bulb turn on -- he didnt say how brightly -- he didnt say that it would have to stay turned on.

Then after about 1 second the conduction signal will arrive at the bulb, having followed the wire(s).
By 1 s the XT would have reduced to zero a long time earlier (& the bulb would have turned off a long time earlier).
And the bulb will at say 1 s (turn on again &) glow brightly. For ever.

There might be a dozen different theories re the nature of electricity -- however, all the same, nonetheless, i doubt that any of them would contradict what i wrote here above.
Last edited by crawler on Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
STR is krapp -- & GTR is mostly krapp.
The present Einsteinian Dark Age of science will soon end – for the times they are a-changin'.
The aether will return – it never left.

crawler
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by crawler » Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:21 am

The main thrust of Veritasium gedanken is that electric energy flows outside the wires, not inside. And that is correct.

I think that most youtubes (about 30 ovem) agree that electric energy flows outside the wires.
However all of thems youtubes say that electrons flow along in the wires.
But no youtube details exactly what part(s) the electrons play, or what part the electron flow plays.

Me myself i reckon that electricity (the main kind)(that we are talking about here) does not involve electrons flowing along electric wires.

I reckon that (during an electric current) electrons jiggle jostle jitter across the wires, & that any DC movement along is a back & forth movement, adding to zero nett movement/flow along the wire.

The jiggle of the electrons (if such jiggle exists)(if electrons exist) might be the cause of resistance & heating.
STR is krapp -- & GTR is mostly krapp.
The present Einsteinian Dark Age of science will soon end – for the times they are a-changin'.
The aether will return – it never left.

crawler
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by crawler » Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:17 pm

Ok, i have solved electricity.
Electricity is the flow of photons along the outside of a wire.
The photons hug the wire, because (1) Shapiro Delay slows their near side (near side to the copper), & (2) because there is drag from free-ish (conduction) electrons in the copper (slowing the photon's nearside).
I call this semi-confined form of a photon an electon.
Electons, hugging the wire, are therefore slowed by the insulation on the wire -- which might be a very thin layer of enamel.

So, electric energy is carried in the space around the wires (ie in the radiation from the electons).
Plus electric energy is carried in the electons.
And zero electric energy is carried by electrons in a wire.
So, Veritasium & Co are half correct.
But i suspect that they (Veritasium & Co) still reckon that electrons in wires play very important parts in the electricity story -- no, electrons in the wires might heat the wires, & contribute to the resistance (Ohms), but thats all.
STR is krapp -- & GTR is mostly krapp.
The present Einsteinian Dark Age of science will soon end – for the times they are a-changin'.
The aether will return – it never left.

jacmac
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:36 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by jacmac » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:37 pm

crawler:
The main thrust of Veritasium gedanken is that electric energy flows outside the wires, not inside. And that is correct.
How far outside the wire ?
I know about voltage sensors that will tell if a wire is hot or energized.
That is, I suppose, due to induction from the AC changing voltage polarity.
But in a DC situation(no induction) you would still need to touch the wire to get any electricity, right ??

crawler
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: The Big Misconception About Electricity - veritasium

Unread post by crawler » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:13 am

jacmac wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:37 pm crawler:
The main thrust of Veritasium gedanken is that electric energy flows outside the wires, not inside. And that is correct.
How far outside the wire ?
I know about voltage sensors that will tell if a wire is hot or energized.
That is, I suppose, due to induction from the AC changing voltage polarity.
But in a DC situation(no induction) you would still need to touch the wire to get any electricity, right ??
I suppose that Veritasium & Co mean outside -- from the edge of the wire to infinity.
Re needing to touch the wire, in a DC situation.
A very strong E by H could give electricity without touching.
But in weakish electricity u would need to touch -- plus i suppose be touching a ground wire.
STR is krapp -- & GTR is mostly krapp.
The present Einsteinian Dark Age of science will soon end – for the times they are a-changin'.
The aether will return – it never left.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests