Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

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KTMKim
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:20 pm

Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by KTMKim » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:55 pm

Warning* small rant to follow.

I grow more emotionally unstable the more I point out the obvious to close ‘family’ members, who seem unwilling to suspend belief long enough for some common sense to seep in.

As I’m viewing the Sunday email, and considering the Picture of the Day from Mel’s 2012 article, I chuckled out loud at the postulation of weathering or erosion. My boyfriend seemed curious about my laugh, and I was curious about his willingness to listen. I usually avoid more and more subjects of conversation with him, due to my growing frustration in being misunderstood and looked at like…. A flat earther!

“What do you see here,” I asked. “How do you think that was made?” Of course the knee jerk reaction was water erosion. I asked him to look closer.
“Do you really think water would do that?”
“Well maybe wind, or something pushed something….. oh what is it, electricity?!” His sarcasm and frustration set me off.
No matter what evidence I can refer to in lab, on videos proving this can be recreated by electricity, his stance is that it is not scalable because we don’t have lightning big enough today to test the results in real time. The conversation deteriorated into an argument again, with him finally asserting “why does any of this matter,” and “you’re defending this as if it’s your family,” etc.

He’s right, I do defend this stuff like family. When something makes sense, it makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is when smart people are unwilling to let go of concepts in the face of new evidence due to its seeming impracticality, and real world uselessness.
“If everything was electric, astronomers would know it by now.”

I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place explaining the politics of why EU (and other concepts) are not accepted, and sick of putting myself in a defensive position. I don’t have all the ammo I need to verbally support my conclusions like Dave, Anthony, Wal, or Don, but you bet I consider them as an extended family of deep and critical thinkers.

When the Picture of the day is enough to make a child understand, yet keep adults in a fog of confusion, I think a great point has been made. May those of the chaff float away on the ‘wind or something’ so the wheat may seed the earth with those less gullible and stubborn.

Thanks Thunderbolts Project.

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nick c
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by nick c » Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:14 am

For reference:
Balanced Water

jackokie
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:10 am

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by jackokie » Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:01 am

@KTMKim I don't have anyone close with whom to discuss cosmology, but I run into the same attitude on comment threads when I post an EU counter-point to the latest gnome (as BeAChooser would call it). People who haven't spent even five minutes reviewing EU theory will immediately reply, regurgitating the standard model's sophistries as if they are holy writ. The last time I included links to articles about the comets being electric and the craters formed by plasma arc machining, one fellow called it "drivel". When I asked if he had read the linked articles, he replied he didn't have time to read "crackpot drivel". I don't see how anyone can look at the bullseye craters with the little craters centered on their peaks and not question that they were created by impacts. The same with crater chains. And the Emily Litella "supernovas" that came back to life. There is a wealth of evidence that seems to be studiously ignored.

It has really puzzled me as to why so many people seem locked into their received wisdom. Then I started reading Joel Shepherd's science fiction novels, and ran into this:

Shepherd introduced a concept labeled Compulsive Narrative Syndrome in his series "Cassandra Kresnov". Here is an explanation by Shepherd's characters (h/t Andrew Pollack's blog at Northern Collaborative Technologies):
“The human brain is trained to look for and identify patterns, but in abstract concepts, fixed and unarguable facts are hard to find. So the brain looks for narratives instead, stories that can tie together various ideas and facts in a way that seems to make sense, to make a pattern. And the human brain, always seeking a pattern as a basic cognitive function, will latch onto a narrative pattern compulsively, and use that pattern as a framework within which to store new information, like a tradesman honing his skill, or someone learning a new language. That’s why religions tell such great stories, the story makes a pattern within which everything makes sense. A synchronicity of apparent facts. Political ideologies, too. Humans are suckers for a great story because we can’t resist the logical pattern it contains."

“When you’re learning a new skill, discarding irrelevant information and organizing the relevant stuff within that framework is good. But in ideologies, it means any information that doesn’t fit the ideological narrative is literally discarded, and won’t be remembered . . . which is why you can argue facts with ideologues and they’ll just ignore you. They’re not just being stubborn, their brains are literally structurally incapable of processing what they perceive as pattern-anomalous data. That’s why some ideologues get so upset when you offer facts that don’t match their pattern, it’s like you’re assaulting them."
In Shepherd's novel, the Syndrome is caused by ubiquitous implant technology linked to the internet that changes the brain. This Syndrome seems strikingly familiar to the attitudes we've encountered.

KTMKim
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:20 pm

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by KTMKim » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:21 pm

nick c wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:14 am
For reference:
Balanced Water
Sorry about that Nick, I should have put the link. I was referring to this week's email and forgot to reference directly thank you

KTMKim
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:20 pm

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by KTMKim » Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:29 pm

jackokie wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:01 am

They’re not just being stubborn, their brains are literally structurally incapable of processing what they perceive as pattern-anomalous data.

This Syndrome seems strikingly familiar to the attitudes we've encountered.
Just like Wal explaining that the path to learning requires a further journey to unlearn what you have learned. thank you for the source This man's book seems to hit the nail on the head.

I bet you wanted to hit that other dude on the head! No time for drivel. As if Balanced Water and EU etc is some flatearth YouTube creation.

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nick c
Posts: 2730
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:12 am

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by nick c » Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:50 pm

Sorry about that Nick, I should have put the link. I was referring to this week's email and forgot to reference directly thank you
No problem.
Notice that I linked to the original TPOD from 2012.
If you link your target TPOD when it is the one current for that day, the link will only work until another TPOD becomes the daily TPOD.
And then that link will take you to whatever TPOD is current for that day.

BeAChooser
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:24 am

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by BeAChooser » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:23 am

jackokie wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:01 am
Shepherd introduced a concept labeled Compulsive Narrative Syndrome in his series "Cassandra Kresnov". Here is an explanation by Shepherd's characters (h/t Andrew Pollack's blog at Northern Collaborative Technologies):
“The human brain is trained to look for and identify patterns, but in abstract concepts, fixed and unarguable facts are hard to find. So the brain looks for narratives instead, stories that can tie together various ideas and facts in a way that seems to make sense, to make a pattern. And the human brain, always seeking a pattern as a basic cognitive function, will latch onto a narrative pattern compulsively, and use that pattern as a framework within which to store new information, like a tradesman honing his skill, or someone learning a new language. That’s why religions tell such great stories, the story makes a pattern within which everything makes sense. A synchronicity of apparent facts. Political ideologies, too. Humans are suckers for a great story because we can’t resist the logical pattern it contains."

“When you’re learning a new skill, discarding irrelevant information and organizing the relevant stuff within that framework is good. But in ideologies, it means any information that doesn’t fit the ideological narrative is literally discarded, and won’t be remembered . . . which is why you can argue facts with ideologues and they’ll just ignore you. They’re not just being stubborn, their brains are literally structurally incapable of processing what they perceive as pattern-anomalous data. That’s why some ideologues get so upset when you offer facts that don’t match their pattern, it’s like you’re assaulting them."
In Shepherd's novel, the Syndrome is caused by ubiquitous implant technology linked to the internet that changes the brain. This Syndrome seems strikingly familiar to the attitudes we've encountered.
It does, doesn't it. I wonder if "mass formation psychosis" is a similar phenomena? ;)

jackokie
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:10 am

Re: Balanced Water / Imbalanced Opinions

Unread post by jackokie » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:29 pm

@BeAChooser I was going to dive into the "Mass Formation Psychosis" phenomenon because of the similarities to Shepherd's concept, but didn't have the time at the point I wanted to reply to @KTMKim. I'll follow up if I manage to learn anything useful.

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