why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Many Internet forums have carried discussion of the Electric Universe hypothesis. Much of that discussion has added more confusion than clarity, due to common misunderstandings of the electrical principles. Here we invite participants to discuss their experiences and to summarise questions that have yet to be answered.
philalethes
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why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by philalethes » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:32 pm

I've enjoyed seeing some of Peratt on Davidson's SuspiciousOservers conferences. So when I went to Peratt's site I read this https://plasmauniverse.info/:
"The Plasma Universe and Plasma
Cosmology have no ties to the anti-
science blogsites of the holoscience
'electric universe'."

What happened? Is it the Saturn Sun model? Davidson is very much into catastrophe via mini-novas and galactic plane electric sheet hitting earth. Is it the idea of Mars and Venus zapping earth? The asteroid catastrophe folks like Hancock and Carlson are now looking at CMEs...and like Robt Schoch, they all won't touch recent planetary events or even mention "competing" theories. I suspect their egos are on the line and they can't risk losing their fans; so alas again, ego in "science." Pretty sad. Guess they can't look at recent destructions like Bronze Age and see all the material as De Grazia has compiled, right down to 800 BCE.

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paladin17
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by paladin17 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:07 am

I would suspect most of the disageement on a theoretical level comes from "recent planetary migrations" indeed. As I didn't witness the argument myself, from various rumours I heard that it was the TBs who convinced Peratt that the catastrophies and plasma configurations he thought he recognized in petroglyphs were caused by "polar configuration" (etc.) stuff, whereas initially Peratt was thinking about the Sun and plasma alone.
And later he became dissatisfied with the "planetary" explanation, apparently. And perhaps felt frustrated seeing his own research still being used by TBs in this framework.

As for Davidson's stuff, I'm pretty sure if Peratt payed more attention, he'd be terrified at how his (apparent) support is used there as well. He knows perfectly well (at least you can find that in his book) that the magnetic field in spiral arms is directed along the arms themselves, and hence there should be no "galactic current sheet" crossing them. So since the Sun is in the Orion arm, no such sheet exists anywhere nearby (which is also confirmed by observations of local interstellar structures). So I would assume if Peratt would still care, he'd eventually add Davidson to this list on his website.

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JP Michael
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by JP Michael » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:10 am

The good ol' polar configuration. Sacrosanct heresy to almost all modern cosmologies, despite them already assenting to the facts of interplanetary catastrophism and planetary migration. Just not allowed in human eyewitness memory, or as a source for mythologies the world over. Sad, really.

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Brigit
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by Brigit » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:49 pm

Inre: Where does Plasma Universe leave off, and the Electric Universe pick up?

It is a really interesting topic. As a plasma cosmologist, Anthony Peratt is already outside of mainstream astronomy, with a very compelling alternative scientific theory. That can't be easy. (He must be well able to take his share of slings and arrows!) So, in a guessing game, when I read any of his publications I like trying to figure out what he is willing to question, and what he is not willing to question.

I suspect that he has to tread carefully regarding MHD, since the rest of the academic world takes it as fact.

I think he likes to keep completely out of the solar physicists' domain, so that his book assumes a thermonuclear sun, with plasma footnotes. lol

I have not been able to determine if he would ever question GR or SR.

The fact that he has a cosmic Birkeland current model for galaxy formation means that he is not hostile to Halton Arp's findings of high redshift quasars associated with active galaxies. In fact, he lists him as a "contributor to plasma cosmology".

And of course, one could easily guess that association by any holder of a PhD with Velikovsky would not be looked well upon, professionally. But the galaxy is turning out to be quite abundant in red and brown dwarf stars wandering about. It is a good thing they mind their own business in the Plasma Universe.
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

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spark
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by spark » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:01 pm

JP Michael wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:10 am
The good ol' polar configuration. Sacrosanct heresy to almost all modern cosmologies, despite them already assenting to the facts of interplanetary catastrophism and planetary migration. Just not allowed in human eyewitness memory, or as a source for mythologies the world over. Sad, really.
The Action Lab recently made a video about magnetic locking which locks magnets in space with rotation and tilt. This might help explain how planets could electromagnetically orbit a star in polar configuration.

Magnetic Locking WITHOUT a Superconductor!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5FyFvgxUhE

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nick c
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by nick c » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:10 am

JPMichael wrote:The good ol' polar configuration. Sacrosanct heresy to almost all modern cosmologies, despite them already assenting to the facts of interplanetary catastrophism and planetary migration. Just not allowed in human eyewitness memory, or as a source for mythologies the world over. Sad, really.
Herbig-Haro objects are stars with enormous polar jets. It is not a stretch to consider the possibility of a planet/satellite suspended within one of these jets.
And there is at least one known example of a Brown Dwarf star that is a HH object.
First Large-scale Herbig-Haro Jet Driven by a Proto-brown Dwarf

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JP Michael
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by JP Michael » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 am

spark wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:01 pm
Magnetic Locking WITHOUT a Superconductor!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5FyFvgxUhE
Excellent, thank you.

Full paper by Hamdi Ucar, "Polarity Free Magnetic Repulsion and Magnetic Bound State," is downloadable here.
spark wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:01 pm
This might help explain how planets could electromagnetically orbit a star in polar configuration.
The major question, then, is would current planetary rotation speeds be enough to account for such magnetic locking? Or else do we have to ponder how fast the sun's magnetic field is rotating (or may have been rotating, if such is no longer the case)?

As with SAFIRE, I want to know what happens when you add more than 1 magnetic object to such systems.

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paladin17
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by paladin17 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:28 pm

JP Michael wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:44 am
Full paper by Hamdi Ucar, "Polarity Free Magnetic Repulsion and Magnetic Bound State," is downloadable here.
A quick "napkin" estimation shows that in order for the magnetic force to be comparable to gravitation between Earth and Saturn, their magnetic moments m1 and m2 (in A*m^2) should satisfy the equation m1*m2 = r^2*10^47, where r is the distance between their centers (in m).
At present for Earth and Saturn m1*m2 ~ 10^47, i.e. the Earth's center should only be about 3 meters from Saturn's center. So if "proto-Saturn" was as far as the Moon (as an example), the magnetic moments' product should have been about 10^64, i.e. 17 orders of magnitude higher than today.
In terms of "polar configuration" I should note as well that the rotating dipole should be perpendicular to the floating one, not parallel to it. And it should spin around the perpendicular axis.

antosarai
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by antosarai » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:29 pm

philalethes wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:32 pm
I've enjoyed seeing some of Peratt on Davidson's SuspiciousOservers conferences. So when I went to Peratt's site I read this https://plasmauniverse.info/:
"The Plasma Universe and Plasma
Cosmology have no ties to the anti-
science blogsites of the holoscience
'electric universe'."

What happened? (...)
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/php ... =3&t=16018, specially
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/php ... 18#p108723

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Rick
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by Rick » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:01 pm

A while back I learned that someone, known to the Saturn Myth community, contacted Peratt's management. What specifically was said I don't know but it is not the first time that sort of action was perpetrated to thwart or silence someone.

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JP Michael
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by JP Michael » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm

paladin17 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:28 pm
So if "proto-Saturn" was as far as the Moon (as an example), the magnetic moments' product should have been about 10^64, i.e. 17 orders of magnitude higher than today.
Is such a product even possible? I appreciate the napkin math, mate. Cheers.
paladin17 wrote:In terms of "polar configuration" I should note as well that the rotating dipole should be perpendicular to the floating one, not parallel to it. And it should spin around the perpendicular axis.
This is still possible if the 'floating one(s)' are the polar shish-kabob, whereas the perpendicular one is the sun. It is Thunderbolts hypothesis that Saturn & co. wandered into the Sun's domain. Given the glaciation in Africa in the past, maybe Michael Czusdi's conjecture that Africa was once the North Pole may be related.

I will suggest that I don't think the math will be as 'clean' with planets as with neodymium/iron/boron magnets; further, what happens when you add 1. A vacuum; 2. Plasma; 3. Electric currents between bodies thus magnetically held?

In other words, pure magnetism might not account for the whole story here, if valid at all for the Polar Config. But it is something to play with. Time to buy a drill and some spherical neodymium magnets!

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nick c
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by nick c » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 am

Rick wrote:A while back I learned that someone, known to the Saturn Myth community, contacted Peratt's management. What specifically was said I don't know but it is not the first time that sort of action was perpetrated to thwart or silence someone.
See Dave Talbott's post on TB Forum V2.0 on Mon Oct 26, 2015.

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paladin17
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by paladin17 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:51 am

JP Michael wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm
paladin17 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:28 pm
So if "proto-Saturn" was as far as the Moon (as an example), the magnetic moments' product should have been about 10^64, i.e. 17 orders of magnitude higher than today.
Is such a product even possible? I appreciate the napkin math, mate. Cheers.
I used the expression (4.2) - a well known one - in the paper you linked. You can see the product in the numerator. You put the gravitational force in the left side and from this evaluate what this product should be. The expression in square brackets can be ignored, since it only contains unit vectors and doesn't influence the order of magnitude much.
JP Michael wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm
paladin17 wrote:In terms of "polar configuration" I should note as well that the rotating dipole should be perpendicular to the floating one, not parallel to it. And it should spin around the perpendicular axis.
This is still possible if the 'floating one(s)' are the polar shish-kabob, whereas the perpendicular one is the sun.
Well, as I've said, the solar magnetic field in this case should rotate around the axis that is perpendicular to its spin axis (see Figure 5.1 where "Rotator" would be the Sun's magnetic field). Alternatively, the whole "kebab" can rotate around such axis (perpendicular to the solar spin axis), which is conceivable if the "kebab" system was (for some unknown reason) spiraling towards the Sun.
Thinking about it for a bit, the solar field actually does rotate in this manner (with some additional complications though) - I mean the 22-year magnetic cycle, when the magnetic north pole travels to heliographic south pole and then comes back to the north pole again. That's an interesting twist.
Magnetic moment of the Sun is only 4 orders of magnitude stronger than Saturn's though.
JP Michael wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:21 pm
I will suggest that I don't think the math will be as 'clean' with planets as with neodymium/iron/boron magnets; further, what happens when you add 1. A vacuum; 2. Plasma; 3. Electric currents between bodies thus magnetically held?
Vacuum doesn't change anything really. Plasma would, however. At the very least it helps the magnetic field to decrease less rapidly with distance (see solar wind magnetic field strength as an example). It is a good question though what kind of magnetic interaction we can see if plasma naturally tends to separate itself into different "cellular" regions (e.g. Earth's magnetosphere versus "quiet" solar wind outside of it).

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spark
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Re: why is Peratt upset with EU and holoscience

Unread post by spark » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:00 pm

This magnet experiment might have something to do with electromagnetically locking planet into polar orbit or even normal orbit.

Amazing Discovery With Magnets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyvfDzRLsiU

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