Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.
tholden
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Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by tholden » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:02 am

I am totally certain of this one at this point. The blue body in ancient descriptions and artwork was Neptune, and not Venus.


https://steemit.com/history/@gungasnake ... nd-neptune

jacmac
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by jacmac » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:46 pm

Thanks for your link, tholden.
I agree with you that the similar tilt angles of bodies in our solar system
is strong evidence of a common origin.

You may remember, I gave a talk
on Chaco canyon in the break out room at the EU conference in Albuquerque
where you and I spoke briefly. The talk focus was the Chacoan belief that the
cardinal direction of East/West had changed in the past and that explained the
serious interest of the Chacoan people in the positions of the Sun and Moon .

Any change in the East/West direction would necessitate a change in the
locations of our North/South axis poles locations as well, I would surmise.
(The Chacoans have indicated an approximate 4.6 degree shift, IMO)

This all brings up questions of whether the idea I put forward is incompatible with the
conservation of angular momentum of a spinning body and/or your grouping of bodies
with similar axis tilts. Your thoughts or comments ??
Jack

tholden
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by tholden » Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:53 am

Hi,

If you look at those axis tilt values from the wiki page, you see something a bit interesting.

Of the three other bodies with roughly the same axis tilt as Saturn, Earth is the most different from Saturn of the three, about 3.29 degrees diffferent. The other two bodies, Mars and Neptune, are nearly the same angle distance from Saturn, 1.54 and 1.59 degrees. That would seem to indicate that something in Earth's past was notably different from thee past history of the other two bodies.

That could easily be construed as supporting your theory.

Hope that helps anything.



Ted

jacmac
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by jacmac » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:23 pm

It could be... :)

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nick c
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by nick c » Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:49 pm

Ted Holden wrote:That would seem to indicate that something in Earth's past was notably different from thee past history of the other two bodies.
With the subsequent rearrangement of the order of the Solar System after the capture and break up of the Saturn system, there are plenty of possible encounters that could have uniquely affected the Earth. The capture of the Moon by Earth, and/or, a subsequent encounter with Venus are two possibilities.

tholden
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by tholden » Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:30 pm

Something needs to get fixed on the tbolts side wrt this one. Claiming that the blue body in those glyphs was Venus is a serious mistake.

Lloyd
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:34 pm

The article, Shamesh and Neptune, says Velikovsky was a very careful scholar, but Cardona and Talbott, such as in the article, The Road to Saturn, at https://www.aeonjournal.com/articles/ro ... aturn.html found a number of errors Velikovsky made, such as supposing that Aphrodite was the Moon, instead of Venus, and that the Tower of Babel involved Mercury, but it was more likely the polar column of the Saturn system. They also could not find evidence that Venus was involved in the Exodus, or that Mars was involved in later cataclysms. Another writer found numerous errors Velikovsky made, described in the article, Velikovsky's Sources, but he apparently made errors as well.

The Shamesh article says Neptune was the bluish planet "behind" Mars and that Venus has its present tilt because of having been ejected from Jupiter's equator. However, Venus was said to have several different colors over time. Initially, as I recall from Cardona, Saturn, Venus? and Mars were seen as reddish. Venus? was also green at one point. So colors don't seem to identify the middle planet conclusively. Ancient myths seem to refer to Venus, not Neptune at all. Velikovsky found much evidence that Venus was seen as a comet, which Cardona, Talbott et al concurred with. The ancients seem to have witnessed Venus leave Saturn as a comet, which was thought to be the spirit or soul of Saturn, so that Saturn appeared to have died. That's when Venus became a comet. Then, eventually, Venus returned to its original position, which made it appear that Saturn was re-animated or brought back to life. Mars appeared to help put Venus back into Saturn. Then Mars appeared to re-enter the womb of Venus.

The whole picture is certainly not crystal clear. There's quite a bit of room for speculation. The Saturn theory includes Jupiter, though, hidden either behind Saturn, or below Earth's south pole. And Neptune could have also been hidden either behind Saturn or Jupiter. The tilts of some of the planets could have been affected by the chaotic movements that occurred during the Saturn system breakup. Venus may have come from Jupiter's Great Red Spot, as John Ackerman thought, but I don't know that any myths support that. The Greek myth saying Venus birthed from the head of Zeus is a late myth that doesn't seem to be stated in other myths and besides that, Zeus likely meant Mars in that case, because Venus I think did appear to come from Mars at one point, as in the above scenario.

What has helped clear up things for me a little is the Creationist findings that all sedimentary strata were likely deposited fairly recently, within the last 6,000 years. This helps dating. I found that there were likely two Floods. The first one covered the entire supercontinent of Pangaea and the second one a few centuries later came due to the breakup of Pangaea by an asteroid. It appears to me that the Saturn system breakup came about the same time. Cardona and Talbott et al thought the Younger Dryas event occurred first, about 12,000 years ago and the Great Flood occurred latesr. But I believe that's backwards. And what helped me even more was Mike Fischer's findings about the breakup of Pangaea at NewGeology.us.

tholden
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by tholden » Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:33 pm

You seem to be looking for more complexity than is actually there in the picture.

".... The Saturn theory includes Jupiter, though, hidden either behind Saturn, or below Earth's south pole. ..."

I'd view that one as definitely wrong. As per Troy McLachlan's and my research ( www.theganymedehypothesis.com ), the two major keys to the prehistory of our system are axis tilts and eye sizes. I.e. human origins and solar system origins have to be studied together, there is no making sense of the one or the other separately.

In my view, humans (tiny bright-world eyes) are the apex creature for bright worlds such as Earth is now and such as Ganymede was some tens of thousands of years ago. Neanderthals and other hominids (huge dark-world eyes) are the apex creatures for dark worlds such as Eartn and Mars were prior to the Saturnian system being captured by our present sun.

That forbids the notion of Jupiter being hidden behind either Saturn or Earth during that past age when you had Jupiter and Ganymede bright and Saurn and Earth dark at the same time.

Jupiter was always part of the bright/sun system.

Venus has the exact same axis tilt as Jupiter to within less than half a degree as I noted and it has retrograde spin, which is what being ejected from the equatorial region of Jupiter would predict. Velikovsky got that right.

And Neptune has that same roughly 26-degree tilt as the Saturn/Mars/Earth group. Neptune had to have been part of the Saturnj system and was almost certainly the blue body in the Shamesh art.

Lloyd
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:11 am

Ted, I've started looking into your model a little now. I've seen parts of it before. Have you seen mine? Mine isn't well organized yet, but I've been working on it on this forum for a couple years now at https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... 6795#p6795 that being the most recent post.

Below is something I started writing this morning. It's not edited enough yet for my thread, but I'll post what I have here for now. After reading your discussion of planetary tilts yesterday, I thought more about what that might entail for my model. I'm not confident that tilts are very permanent, and it seems that Earth's axis tilt may have gone through some changes. And Miles Mathis has a paper claiming that the tilts are caused by the planetary positions in the present solar system. So I'm open-minded on the issue and here I'm showing what might be the case if your argument is right about tilts.

In this writing, I'm trying to list as many significant features and events as I can about Earth's history and place them in a timeline tentatively. I'll comment a little more on one of the statements in your model below.

Ancient Saturn Dwarf Star system
_It consisted of a line or train of planets etc in this order, i.e. Jupiter with its Moons, Saturn with its Moons, Venus, Mars, Earth, Neptune & a polar column of dust & debris connecting them all.
_Uranus, Mercury, Pluto, Asteroids, Comets & debris may also have accompanied the train.
_Stars & Planets likely form in filaments via electrical implosion as per Charles Chandler.
_So the train may have been forming with the Sun being a distant part that the train was approaching.
_NOTE: Cardona thought Jupiter followed Earth, whereas Talbott thought it preceded Saturn. It makes more sense if Talbott was right, because when Saturn probably later left the train near the Asteroid Belt and Jupiter replaced Saturn, Jupiter was likely in the lead position where it provided heat for Earth so that life did not freeze to death while moving to its present orbit. Saturn may have encountered Jupiter as the former began to leave the train, which may have changed Jupiter's axis tilt. And Jupiter's new axis tilt may have affected Venus' tilt as well, since it was next in line after Jupiter when Saturn left. The other planets retained Saturn's tilt, except for Uranus, Mercury & Pluto, which may have been jostled around during the extended breakup of the train.
_Below I'll call the ancient Saturn system the SATURN TRAIN.
_Question marks indicate that the time of the event or feature is less certain.

__4,000 BC
SATURN TRAIN: passed through the Kuiper Belt & reached the orbit of Pluto
SATURN: was dimly VISIBLE from Earth
OTHER PLANETS: were NOT VISIBLE

?NEPTUNE: left the Train, retaining Saturn's Tilt
?URANUS: left the Train, but tripped on something & got an eccentric Tilt, while its Moons retained its previous Tilt

EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE: was THICK (or at least a little thicker, since impacts surely removed some of it. But maybe some impacts or flare-ups replenished it. I saw your video on the Dinosaurs and am rethinking the thickness.)
EARTH'S LANDMASS: was the PANGAEA SUPERCONTINENT
PANGAEA'S INHABITANTS: were
.DINOSAURS
.LYCOPOD TREES, FORESTS
.EARLY MAMMALS
.EARLY HUMANS
-----

__3,000 BC
SATURN TRAIN: reached the orbit of Saturn
?SATURN: went NOVA due to reaching the ‭Sun's electric current sheet

PANGAEA: was all lowland
PANGAEA FLOOD: was caused by
AN ELLIPTICALLY ORBITING ASTEROID OR MOON: which caused tsunamis & the Flood

AN ASTEROID SWARM: caused many impacts
EARTH'S IMPACT BASINS: have the thickest sediments
?MOON IMPACT CRATERS: formed & the Moon was NOT VISIBLE yet
FLOOD DEPOSITS: were Sedimentary Strata, Coal, Oil & Fossils
?VOLCANOES & EARTHQUAKES: possibly occurred
-----
SATURN TRAIN: SATURN, SATURN MOONS, VENUS, MARS & THE POLAR DUST COLUMN became VISIBLE; OTHERS remained INVISIBLE
PANGAEA:
?CHICXULUB IMPACT: caused tsunami to North Dakota
NORTHWEST PANGAEA HAD AN ICE SHEET: covering most of Canada, NW. U.S. & W. Europe
ICE-FREE PANGAEA HAD A GOLDEN AGE: in Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia, Antarctica, South America, S. North America
DINOSAUR EXTINCTION: occurred due to impacts & flooding
ADVANCED CIVILIZATION Sumeria, Egypt {first Intermediate Period}, Tiahuanaco ...
GIANT MAMMALS
FORESTS
MODERATELY THICK ATMOSPHERE Some loss due to impacts
?SATURN DUAL WATER STREAMS ORBIT
?VENUS SPIRAL ORBIT
?GIANT MARS
?VENUS & MARS RETURN TO SATURN
?POLAR COLUMN RETREAT
-----

__2,300 BC
ASTEROID SWARM at Asteroid Belt
?SATURN NOVA
PANGAEA
CONFLAGRATION from Nova heat
ICE SHEET IMPACTS NW Pangaea: MI, Greenland,
SECONDARY IMPACTS Carolina Bays, Nebraska basins, ?MN craters, North Sea craters
ICE SHEET MELT FLOODS from Conflagration & Impacts
MAGMA FLOODS, VOLCANOES & EARTHQUAKES Washington, India, Siberia
HUDSON BAY IMPACT
MOON CRATERS, MOON INVISIBLE
SEYCHELLES ASTEROID IMPACT near east Africa
SHOCK DYNAMICS
PANGAEA BREAKUP
MID OCEAN RIDGE formed above sea level (another clue from Velikovsky)
ATLANTIC & INDIAN OCEANS formed
SEPARATED CONTINENTS
MOUNTAIN CHAINS formed
GIANT MAMMALS EXTINCTION
CIVILIZATION SETBACK Egypt second Intermediate Period, Tiahuanaco Flood & Uplift ...
YELLOWSTONE SUPERVOLCANO STRING formed in quick succession
PANGAEA BREAKUP FLOODS
FLOOD DEPOSITS last one or two megasequences, Zuni, Tejas
?NOVA OR IMPACTS DEPOSITS iridium, nanodiamonds ...
?GRAND CANYON formed
?ANTARCTIC CANYON formed
ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET formed
GREENLAND ICE SHEET REMNANT remained
?SATURN DEPARTURE
?JUPITER ARRIVAL
MOON ARRIVAL
?TAURID METEOR STREAM FORMATION
THINNER ATMOSPHERE from more impacts
JUPITER (taking over from Saturn) WARMS EARTH from Asteroid Belt to present Orbit
-----
BRONZE AGE, CIVILIZATION REBUILT
SATURN-JUPITER RELIGIONS & MYTHS spread
TAURID METEORS continued to cause occasional local cataclysms usually around Halloween


Ganymede Hypothesis - Pangaea?
I started to read your PDF on that and here's an excerpt.
The continental mass of the planet doesn’t end up in one place for no reason, it gets PULLED into one place by some titanic force of attraction. Basically, the center of Pangaea was sitting on the high point of the egg on an egg-shaped planet. That is the reason for the greater curvature of the Pangaean tectonic plates; no Earth expansion was required. Pico Island (Portuguese Azores) is the center of the north Atlantic Bulge and appears to have been the center of the Earth during the Saturnian age.
That's similar to what I've been thinking lately. But instead of the Azores as the point below Saturn, I thought it might be the Giza pyramid that was directly under Saturn, because the pyramid (and the sphinx) was built before the last Great Flood (Younger Dryas IMO) and the pyramid is said to be in the middle of the land masses of the Earth. And a map of Pangaea before the megasequences of sedimentary rock were deposited in the first Great Flood and somewhat in the YF Flood shows that Giza and Tiahuanaco were on opposite shores before Pangaea broke up (during the YD event) and Bellamy or someone said the same people occupied both "cities" before the Flood. Velikovsky suggested that Tiahuanaco was at sea level before it was raised to its present height. And I came to agree with that.

Maybe we can have a productive discussion. I tried to have a discussion with Ev Cochrane a few months ago, but he doesn't seem to like to discuss much.

tholden
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by tholden » Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:54 pm

Here's the picture that Troy and I (mostly Troy) came to wrt the prehistory of our system.

The system started out as a single Herbig/Haro string along the axis of a Birkeland current. Going from the (system) North to the (system) South you saw:

1. Jupiter and its moons (possibly including Mercury and our present moon

2. Our present sun, a main-sequence star.

3. The Saturn system including Neptune, Mars, and Earth, as well as other things including Titan, Iapetus etc. Neptune, Mars, and Earth remained in the alignment from the HH string for a long time, some of the other things may have been orbiting Saturn.

4. Uranus, Pluto and a few other things at odd places in the overall system.


And then, ...

The entire system had been moving towards the system North for a while.

Sol caught up with and captured Jupiter and its system, causing Sol to slow in its Northward movement.

At some point in this process the part of the original HH alignment containing Saturn/Neptune/Mars/Earth broke off at an angle i.e. the overall system was still aligned along the path of the original Birkeland current, but the path was now bent at something like a 26-degree angle. This might have been caused by the slowing of the sun.

The sun slowing allowed the Saturn system to ultimately catch up to what had become a sun/Jupiter system and finally be captured by it.

There was at least one near capture event in which the Saturn system was nearly captured by the sun. The two largest rocky bodies in the Satgurn system and the Sun/Jupiter system respectively were Earth and Ganymede. Those were the two bodies that came closest together during the near capture event and the first modern humans on Earth were transferred from Ganymede at that time, most likely involving an electrical water bridge.I assume those humans splashed down in the Pacific ocean more or less opposite the Portuguese Azores and he center of Earth under the Saturn system. I assume that the other aquatic mammals brought those first humans to Australia. The Ganymede Hypothesis and the Out-of-Australia theory are basically compatible.


Prior to the sun capturing Jupiter, the Saturn system may have beenat a distance from the sun similar to the distance that now separates Proxima Centauri from the two main-sequence stars that comprise Alpha Centauri.

Also prior to that event, Jupiter and Saturn were separated BY the sun. There is simply no possibility that Saturn and Jupiter were ever close to one another prior to the much more recent capture of Saturn by the sun.



Hope that helps anything.....

Lloyd
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:27 pm

.
.
I plan to discuss this tomorrow or so. I work weekends and Mondays.
In the mean time, you could check out Charles Chandler's findings on galaxy, star, exotic star, and planet formation at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6031
It's much more thorough than other models, including electrical models, I think.

Lloyd
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:28 pm

Ted, do you have time sometime to discuss on an etherpad or something like Google Docs? I'm available most days except Sat, Sun, Mon.

That way, we could have live discussion and then the highlights could be copied here.

Here's an etherpad link: http://meetingwords.com/tdCwGADLit

tholden
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by tholden » Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:59 am

Something in the next two or three weeks or so, sure.

Lloyd
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Re: Shamesh glyphs and Neptune

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:30 pm

Okay, good. I look forward to that. Thanks.

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