Electric Venus

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.
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nick c
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Electric Venus

Unread post by nick c » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:15 pm

The European Space Agency (ESA) Venus Express has measured the planet's electric field:
https://sci.esa.int/web/venus-express/- ... d-at-venus

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nick c
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by nick c » Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:22 am

Scientists Baffled to Discover That Venus' Spin Is Slowing Down
Note this is not a minuscule change measured in milliseconds, but rather a much more substantial 6.5 minutes measured over 16 years.

Maol
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by Maol » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:36 am

Sounds like Venus is acting like an eddy current brake, also known as an induction brake, such as used on log trucks and IC engine and chassis dynamometers.

(shamelessly copied from wikipedia)
An eddy current brake, also known as an induction brake, electric brake or electric retarder, is a device used to slow or stop a moving object by dissipating its kinetic energy as heat. Unlike friction brakes, where the drag force that stops the moving object is provided by friction between two surfaces pressed together, the drag force in an eddy current brake is an electromagnetic force between a magnet and a nearby conductive object in relative motion, due to eddy currents induced in the conductor through electromagnetic induction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_curr ... _absorbers

Maol
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by Maol » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:10 am

Maol wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:36 am
Sounds like Venus is acting like an eddy current brake, also known as an induction brake, such as used on log trucks and IC engine and chassis dynamometers.

(shamelessly copied from wikipedia)
An eddy current brake, also known as an induction brake, electric brake or electric retarder, is a device used to slow or stop a moving object by dissipating its kinetic energy as heat. Unlike friction brakes, where the drag force that stops the moving object is provided by friction between two surfaces pressed together, the drag force in an eddy current brake is an electromagnetic force between a magnet and a nearby conductive object in relative motion, due to eddy currents induced in the conductor through electromagnetic induction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_curr ... _absorbers
The Eddy Current Brake effect would contribute to the high temperature of Venus.

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nick c
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by nick c » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:41 pm

The consensus among Thunderbolts Project people is that Venus is a young planet which has only been in its present position for a few thousand years.
These anomalies show (and there are others, including as you mentioned, the high temperature) that Venus is not yet in equilibrium with its environment.
Yet another Venusian anomaly pertaining to its rotation is that it is retrograde. Venus rotates in the opposite direction of all of the other planets. This can also be interpreted as that Venus is upside down. The slowing down of Venus' rotation is expected to continue until Venus stops rotating and eventually rotates in the opposite direction, that is the same as the other planets.
I also expect that at some point it will be announced that Venus' is cooling and losing atmosphere.

Again, the point is that Venus has not been in its present position for billions of years. If it had. it would have reached an equilibrium state a long time ago. Venus is not in equilibrium with its environment.
see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDDXi0HJjHU
https://www.holoscience.com/wp/venus-isnt-our-twin/

Lloyd
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:16 pm

Nick, I don't think the Saturnists have stated how old Venus may be. They disagree with Velikovsky's idea that Venus emerged from Jupiter. At least they disagree that the Greek myth about that was reliable. The myth (of Zeus) could have meant Mars instead of Jupiter too. But I don't think any of them have suggested that Venus emerged from Saturn either. Cardona said Venus (& Mars) first became visible after a Saturn flare. I think John Ackerman and Gary Gilligan accept more of Velikovsky's ideas, but they're not Saturnists. I'm not sure what Lynn Rose and Jno Cook and others think.

I see now that in the video you linked to the narrator or host at 5'53" says Thornhill says Venus was born recently by its parent proto-Saturn. I haven't found that statement by Thornhill himself, so I don't know if the narrator is correct or not. I assume that Saturnists agree that it's conceivable that Venus recently emerged from Saturn, but I don't recall anyone actually suggesting that hypothesis, including Thornhill.

Also, I just now saw your statement that Venus' rotation has slowed down 6.5 minutes measured over 16 years. That's amazing. I guess that info isn't discussed much in the mainstream. Looks like that info is ten years old.

Pensee had an article in 1972 on Venus losing heat and I think Ginenthal wrote about it in Aeon in 1992 or so, as at https://www.catastrophism.com/intro/sea ... oom_cat=-1

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nick c
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by nick c » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:56 pm

Hi Lloyd,
The important thing to remember about Venus, that being a newcomer to the solar system, she is not in equilibrium with her environment. Adjustments are still being made and there should be more anomalies coming. Velikovsky emphasized this and predicted that Venus' should be hot and losing heat and should have a disrupted rotation. At the time of those predictions Venus' orbit was thought to be in the habitable zone and a candidate for some kinds of Earth type life, and its rotational characteristics was unknown as only the tops of clouds could be seen from Earth. And incidentally, Venus is a Latin name for the planet and the goddess, and as Velikovsky pointed out the name could have been derived from the Latin for "newcomer." Newcomer in Latin translates as "advena."

Afaik, the consensus among the Thunderbolts Project is that Venus is a young planet. But certainly that is not unanimous and I would not want to attribute that position to those who do not subscibe. I would not venture with any estimation of dates or how many thousand of years are involved. Venus may have been in existence for millenia before it first encountered Earth. But my opinion is that it is more recent than most think.
Thornhill has written many times since the 1990's, that Venus is a new planet and was fissioned when the brown dwarf proto Saturn flared after it entered the Solar System.
See: Proto Saturn & Comet Venus
also from a presentation of a slide show about Venus which is at least from 2004, probably older.
Thornhill wrote:I want to now tip the balance heavily in favour of
Velikovsky's view of Venus having been a comet in historical times
[...]
Slide 27. Finally, a word about the high surface temperature of Venus.
It is the remnant internal heat from Venus' birth producing the hellish
surface conditions. It is not due to an atmospheric greenhouse effect
[....]
Slide 29. The craters on Venus look young simply because they are so.
The largest were probably created within hours of each other. As for fixing
the timing of the birth of Venus and its subsequent wanderings, we must not
continue to ignore a new way of looking at the earliest recollections of
mankind in the form of myths and legends and the written records of the human
race.
Velikovsky postulated that Venus was born after Saturn became unstable from an encounter with Jupiter. He did not know which was the parent, Saturn or Jupiter, but finally opted for the Greek myth that Athene spung fully armed from the head of Zeus. The Greek myth is not unreliable in itself, it is just not supported by other myths, which of course is not consistent with the comparative technique.

It must be considered that other bodies/moons may have been born during that tumultuous period, Titan for example. All of the gas giant planets have terrestrial type bodies as satellites and presumably, from the EU perspective. all of those bodies were born by a fissioning process at different times, the parent body being under electrical stress.
Thornhill wrote:This report should be read in conjunction with my news item in June, which argues a different history of the solar system and, in particular, Saturn. It is time to reexamine the predictions I made there about Titan:

We should expect to see family traits amongst the members of the Saturnian family — including the departed Earth, Mars and Venus. For example, the moon Titan, which is larger than the planet Mercury, seems to be a close sibling of Venus, probably born from Saturn at about the same time. That Titan may be young is hinted at by its eccentric orbit, which cannot have persisted for billions of years. So we should be alert to similarities between Titan and Venus. It is already known that Titan has the densest atmosphere of any terrestrial planet, after Venus.
Most in the planetary catastrophe school attribute Venus' parent to be Saturn, including Wal. Clearly, the various scenarios are tentative. The confusion could be because with the proposed encounter between Jupiter and Saturn the planetary birth was partially obscured as seen from Earth and then there appeared the newcomer Venus. My position is that it is probably Saturn but the door is still open. Some day, furthe exploration of both systems may yield some new evidence tipping the scales one way or the other.

Lloyd
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:40 am

I just happened to notice this Thoth discussion as I was posting Thoth links on my NIAMI thread.

THOTH V6-08 BIRTH OF VENUS . . . . . discussion with Ken Moss, Dwardu Cardona, and Wal Thornhill
https://www.saturniancosmology.org/file ... ovi-08.txt
(I'm skipping a few paragraphs.)

CARDONA: But there you have it. Whether forcefully or not, Venus IS said to have been "spat out." In other words, it had not been visually apparent before that event. And as for whether the "spitting" was violent or not, we have to analyze other than just the Egyptian myth. From my own study of this subject, I can safely say (without being adamant) that the first appearance of Venus WAS a violent event.

MOSS: On the other hand, Wal's view is supported by the birth myth of Athena/Venus who suddenly burst out of the forehead of Zeus fully armed and ready for battle. This does sound like a far more dramatic appearance and fits the equator ejection model as Venus would have been seen to suddenly appear out to the side of Saturn and not between Mars and Saturn.

CARDONA: The correct translation is "skull" not "forehead." Even so, I do not see how that necessarily translates as an EQUATORIAL ejection. And, in any case, that was Hesiod's take. There are other Greek versions of the birth of Athena.

WAL THORNHILL adds: The equatorial ejection model is supported by Venus' retrograde spin. As Eric Crew made clear in his electrical core expulsion model, the ejected matter is given a retrograde spin by the very nature of its birth. If Venus had been born from the pole of Saturn in some unspecified manner, then it would be expected to mimic Saturn's axial alignment and spin rate. It does neither.

CARDONA: You are here assuming that Venus spun retrogradely from its very inception. I can argue that it did not. And, no, I am not saying that Venus stopped spinning and then resumed in the opposite direction. It's spin did not change. But it did go through a tippe-top inversion, very much in the manner that Warlow hypothesized for Earth. As seen from Earth, the effect would have been the same as if Venus changed its direction of spin.

MOSS: The more contentious scenario, to me, is Dwardu's and the problem has more to do with the physics than any mythology. If Wal is right, that it was a combination of attraction (between the sun and the core) and sudden electric charge difference (between Saturn's outer shell and core) that drove the ejection, how could that happen in the already-aligned configuration consisting of Saturn, Mars and the Earth? For the core to come out of the pole that Mars and the Earth were 'under' it would mean that the configuration came into the solar system TAIL FIRST (Saturn being the head and Earth the tail of the string of planets).

CARDONA: The problem here, as in many other cases, is the Sun. Why are we assuming that Venus was "pulled out" of proto-Saturn by the gravitational pull of the Sun? That, surely, is NOT the manner in which planets are born. So that whether the proto-Saturnian systems entered the Sun's domain tail-first or head-first has no bearing on THIS particular issue. (To be sure, this question HAS to be answered, but in relation to an entirely different problem.)

MOSS: And if this were so, surely the Earth, being the closest body to the sun, would have been subject to tremendous forces. Surely these forces would not have left us in peace while reaching over us (and Mars), so to speak, in order to pull out Saturn's core?

CARDONA: Saturn's core, IF THAT IS WHAT VENUS WAS, was not "pulled out" by anything. Again, that is not the way in which planets are born.

THORNHILL agrees: See my article in Aeon VI:1. The gravitational attraction of the Sun had little to do with the birth of Venus. It might have contributed an offset in the expulsion from proto-Saturn's equatorial plane -- which may be reflected in the fact that Venus' spin axis does not line up with any of Earth, Mars and Saturn. But the major effects would have been felt when crossing the Sun's plasma sheath at some great distance from the Sun and well beneath the ecliptic. (That accords with the shared axial alignments of Earth, Mars and Saturn, together with the observed revolving crescent of sunlight seen from Earth on the body of Saturn).
The plasma sheath is the region of the Sun's virtual-cathode where almost the entire voltage difference between the Sun and the galactic plasma exists. The effect upon Saturn would have been, I imagine, spectacular and catastrophic, leading to the expulsion of Venus in an effort to adjust electrically. A part of the process would see Saturn accelerated from the center of its small planetary system, leaving the more distantly orbiting satellites to trail behind. That is the only way, dynamically, that I can see a close polar configuration forming.
BTW, the preferential constant acceleration of Saturn, as the most highly charged body in the assembly, toward the Sun fits perfectly with the observed constant deceleration of charged spacecraft moving away from the Sun. A dynamic polar equilibrium could only be sustained by such a constant tug on proto-Saturn.

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nick c
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Re: Electric Venus

Unread post by nick c » Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:30 pm

Thoth was a fascinating on line newsletter running from 1997-2004. It was excellent reading with great essays and exchanges like the one above, where catastrophist and Electric Universe theorists could bounce ideas off of one another.

I highly recommend it for anyone who is not familiar with the newsletter.
Thoth Newsletter

(i copied it long ago, because you never know when something like this will just disappear from the internet.)

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