Proof of the Big Bang

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.
BeAChooser
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by BeAChooser » Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:01 am

JoeB wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:47 pm IF something is more red-shifted, doesn't that supposedly mean it is receding faster, according to what they are saying?
Only according the mainstream. Like I said there is a growing body of evidence that something in or about the medium between galaxies and us can cause redshift. Not just recession. I leave it to others here to explain that to you. I will say that not very many mainstream astrophysicists (or all the minions who report on science for them) will acknowledge this because it might spell the death of the goose that been laying all the golden eggs they been buying nice homes, cars, vacations, meals, kid's educations, Roths, etc with for decades and decades.

Also, I'll point out that Halton Arp theorized that quasars (which have high redshifts) are produced by active galaxies and as they evolve into galaxies themselves their redshift drops. So it could be that very little is receding out there ... that redshifts are mostly the result of something else and mainstream astrophysicists are simply being fooled. Or letting themselves be fooled at this point because so much is at stake for them financially and reputation wise. The response of the mainstream to Arp was to try and destroy him because his ideas threatened their grift.
JoeB wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:47 pm But when you say that naturally they are more red shifted because it happens in plasma, what does that mean? Plasma moves away faster the further away it is?
As I said, I've leave it to others here to address that redshift might be due to something beside recession. What I'll point out is what I noted here ... https://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3 ... 9049#p9049 ... in a post I made today. In papers and articles for decades, the mainstream has used the word gas instead of plasma to describe what is seen.

But plasma is not the same as gas. It’s a fourth state of matter. It behaves completely differently in the presence of other plasmas ... in the presence of electric currents and magnetic fields. Their calling plasma, gas, is indicative of a major lack of understanding about what’s going one out there. And since plasmas are 99.99% of the visible (real) matter we see, don’t you think that would be a very important distinction?

And it’s not just the physics of plasma they won’t talk about, it’s electric current and how it creates magnetic fields. For example, in the article I reviewed at the above link, they state magnetic fields “are created by energetic particles in motion”. But it’s plasma carrying electric current, not energetic particles (which could be neutral particles), that produces the magnetic fields they see.

Furthermore, there are all sorts structures that their telescopes have revealed … filaments, helically wound filaments, double layers, jets … that all naturally form in plasmas … no gravity needed. They claim that it’s gravity and gravity only that “draws” a filament of gas (NO, PLASMA) “together” when in fact filaments will form naturally in plasma. All that’s needed is electric current and the magnetic fields they create. In fact, all that's needed is moving plasma!

They have no rational explanation for all the helically wound filaments they see out there. They call on gnomes … turbulence, shock waves … even “wind” in the media … to do it, while all the while ignoring the fact that we can create helically wound filaments in our labs without gravity playing a role, without turbulence, without shock waves, and without wind.

The honest truth, JoeB, is that they do not understand physics of plasma … physics that’s been understood long before Big Bang came along … and that is proven by the way they are flailing around to explain phenomena that PC/EU theorists can explain WITHOUT gravity or any of the nonsense they spout ... that PC/EU theorists explained 30-40 years ago! They were just ignored.

Can you imagine that after spending tens of billions of OUR tax dollars over 5 decades, they have admit in their articles that “there are still gaps in our knowledge of these magnetic fields, such as how strong they are, how have they evolved, and what their role is in the formation of this cosmic web.” It’s painfully obvious to anyone whose really paying attention that they are either clueless … or deliberate grifters, as I suggest in my post.

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Brigit
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Brigit » Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:27 am

JoeB says, "IF something is more red-shifted, doesn't that supposedly mean it is receding faster, according to what they are saying?"

Here is a really nice interview given by Halton Arp -- he includes some beautiful images he captured with his telescope, so you can follow right along.

"Patrick meets Halton Arp. May 1988."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57MvExJ_SrU
Ch: Martin Mobberley
dur: 19:23

Transcript excerpt:

Patrick Moore: "And if the redshifts are not pure dopplers then all our distance measures may be wrong and one astronomer who believes that and has observational evidence to back it up is Dr. Halton Arp, formerly of the Mount Wilson Observatory and now of the Munich Institute. Delighted to have you with us. If you're right then the effects upon all our thinking are going to be pretty profound."

Halton Arp: "Our entire view of the universe the size and the mass and the contents depends on this assumption that we can tell distances by red shift. If that one crucial assumption is incorrect our picture falls apart and we don't know very much."

PM: "Well first of all then will you give us the observational evidence that you have that the red shifts are not pure Doppler
Effect or something else superimposed on it?"

Chip Arp: "Fundamentally the only way you can tell the distance in the universe is to see an object associated with another object whose distance you know, so that if you see objects which are clustered together or are interacting together you know that they're at the same distance. And if you find that their redshifts are much different then you know that the redshift can't be a measure of the distance. Now an example of this we see in this very pretty spiral galaxy with three quasars on the edge of it. The quasars have enormously high redshift and the spiral galaxy has a low redshift. These quasars are so close to the galaxy that they are statistically probably associated.

We see other examples of this, for example here are three other quasars associated very very close to
a galaxy.

Now in addition to these close associations which are statistically improbable we see quasars actually linked to the galaxy. In this case the quasar markarian 205 is just below the disturbed galaxy NGC 4319 has a very much higher redshift than the galaxies which are only about 2000 km/s.
The quasar has about 20 21,000 kilometers per second.

The next example shows quasar with a very high redshift 1.17 and it's connected by a luminous bridge to a disturbed galaxy...

Now not only do we have these quasars with a very high redshift linked and associated with lower red shift galaxies but also we have galaxies themselves of different redshift which are apparently which are clearly interacting but have much different redshift."
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

jackokie
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by jackokie » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:06 pm

In poking about looking for recent images of Markarian 205 and NGC 4319 in various spectra, I somehow got sidetracked onto the Luminiferous Aether, and ran across this gem on Quora from
Valdis Klētnieks, BS in Mathematics & Physics, Clarkson University (Graduated 1984):

Related
But what makes the Aether hypothesis severely flawed? Which physical phenomena are inconsistent with the Aether model?
But what makes the Aether hypothesis severely flawed? Which physical phenomena are inconsistent with the Aether model?

There’s a number of reasons, but the biggie is that the Michelson-Morley experiment (and all subsequent replications) showed it was impossible to measure the speed of the Earth relative to the Aether. At that point, you’re left with one of two choices:

Concluding that you can’t measure the speed relative to the Aether because there isn’t any Aether.

Concluding that you can’t measure the speed relative to the Aether because the Aether exists, but there’s no way to interact with it, measure it, detect it, or otherwise use it for an explanation of how anything works. In other words, it might as well not exist because your theories will ignore it anyhow.

Choose wisely.
Hah! He's discovered dark matter.
Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once.

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orrery
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by orrery » Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:12 pm

In order to determine motion, you need Δz, z by itself can't do it.

Δz =! z

There is no evidence that the Doppler Effect has any affect on z, it is a phenomenon that can only be applied to Δz.
"though free to think and to act - we are held together like the stars - in firmament with ties inseparable - these ties cannot be seen but we can feel them - each of us is only part of a whole" -tesla

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Arcmode
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Arcmode » Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:56 am

Movement is how the standard model explains redshift, while EU leans more towards the redshifted light simply being an instrinsic characteristic of plasma in that configuration in space.

Imagine you were blindfolded and you heard a car approaching. The sound would change as it passed you due to the sound waves being compressed in front and stretched out behind. This is analogous to velocity redshift of stars, the sound (or light) changes because the object is moving relative to the observer.

Now take off your blindfold and you find you are in a room with a speaker system surrounding you. Someone has played the sound of a car engine and modulated the waveform, compressing and stretching it, to make it sound like a moving car, while in fact the source of the sound - the speakers - were always stationary. The changes in the wave were intrinsic to the object producing the sound and were not related to it's movement relative to your position.

Aardwolf
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Aardwolf » Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:42 pm

I'm not entirely convinced redshifting even exists.

To measure a redshift what you actually measuring are absorption lines in the spectrum. However, if you actually look at any examples of the shifting lines, you could just make up where you want them to be based on whatever pet theory you're pushing. At distance there are so many lines you can take your pick what they refer to. If you look at the example in the link below, you could deduce that the lines don't move at all, and there just appears to be degradation right across the spectrum. There are some distinct absorption bands in the lab that disappear at distance. How is that possible? There should also be evidence of spectral broadening of the lines. Can't see much of that, in fact some narrow!. I think it's such a mess that they can just hang the redshift theory on because they choose to, and then say it's "proof"

https://supernova.eso.org/static/archiv ... _DUM_2.jpg

In my opinion, the obvious degradation of light right across the spectrum supports the tired light theory not redshift.

danda
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by danda » Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:18 pm

jackokie wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:06 pm There’s a number of reasons, but the biggie is that the Michelson-Morley experiment (and all subsequent replications) showed it was impossible to measure the speed of the Earth relative to the Aether.
Except that he's 100% misinformed on this point. regurgitating textbook vomit.

1. MM detected an ether wind speed of 7 - 11 km/sec (iirc). NOT ZERO.

2. 7km/sec is pretty fast. if you don't believe me, get your car up to that speed and stick your head out the window.

3. Relativists claimed MM a failure and falsification of ether theory because the prevailing static ether theory of the day required a much higher speed.

4. Relativity requires no ether, and thus a speed of 0. So in that sense, MM falsified relativity, not the ether.

5. Modified ether theor(ies) exist(ed) that do not require a high speed near the earth's surface, such as a dynamic dragged ether. So at most, one can correctly claim that MM falsified a particular variant of ether theory -- and supported other(s).

6. MM measurements were performed in a single day (afternoon) in a basement. Did not check for any variations over time. Not enough to draw any serious conclusions.

7. Some other null result duplications did things like placing the interferometer inside steel pipes, which effectively block the ether wind according to some ether theory, and seemingly emperical evidence.

8. Dayton Miller later built a much more sensitive instrument and performed detailed long term studies on a mountain top. With it, he confirmed MM's speeds, and a bit higher. Also he shows sidereal variations (with stars/interstellar), and was able to correctly compute the axis of solar system travel in galactic space. based on ether wind measurements.

9. Einstein wrote that if Miller's observations are correct, relativity is dead/falsified.

10. After Miller died, one of Einstein's acolytes did a hatchett job on Miller's work. unclear if Einstein was behind it, or simply looked the other way.

11. A couple of 21st century experiments have confirmed the ether wind using other instruments / experiments.

12. Miller may have misinterpreted some of his own data. Demeo later reviewed the raw data and made some corrections to the conclusions.

All this and much much more detail and info in James Demeo's book: The Dynamic Ether of Cosmic Space: Correcting a Major Error in Modern Science He also has a published paper on the same topic and a website.

I would encourage everyone to read Demeo's work.

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orrery
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by orrery » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:42 pm

All light is the product of Pulse Wave Emission.
Each Light Pulse is a Frame.
Each Frame encodes the Element of the Pulse Wave Emitter.

I call this the Frame's Spectral Key and this Spectral Key is what identifies the Chemical Element that is generating the Pulse.

Every Pulse generates an expanding spherical wavefront. Just like the framerate of your computer monitor.

Redshift is a phenomenon that is applied to Spectrum and is only relevant to the Spectrum. The Spectrum is the Spectral Key of the Frame and these arrive at the Observer - Frame by Frame. And are identified Frame by Frame.

It is a Frame Attribute and not a TimeLapse Phenomenon like Doppler.

Light Pulse => Frame Rate
Spectrum => Frame Attribute
Doppler => Time Lapse

Z Redshift is a Frame Attribute of the Spectral Key which is like the Internet Protocol that defines the element of the Light Pulse Emitter.
It's not that big of a mystery.
"though free to think and to act - we are held together like the stars - in firmament with ties inseparable - these ties cannot be seen but we can feel them - each of us is only part of a whole" -tesla

http://www.reddit.com/r/plasmaCosmology

crawler
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by crawler » Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:08 pm

danda wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:18 pm
jackokie wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:06 pm There’s a number of reasons, but the biggie is that the Michelson-Morley experiment (and all subsequent replications) showed it was impossible to measure the speed of the Earth relative to the Aether.
Except that he's 100% misinformed on this point. regurgitating textbook vomit.

1. MM detected an ether wind speed of 7 - 11 km/sec (iirc). NOT ZERO.

2. 7km/sec is pretty fast. if you don't believe me, get your car up to that speed and stick your head out the window.

3. Relativists claimed MM a failure and falsification of ether theory because the prevailing static ether theory of the day required a much higher speed.

4. Relativity requires no ether, and thus a speed of 0. So in that sense, MM falsified relativity, not the ether.

5. Modified ether theor(ies) exist(ed) that do not require a high speed near the earth's surface, such as a dynamic dragged ether. So at most, one can correctly claim that MM falsified a particular variant of ether theory -- and supported other(s).

6. MM measurements were performed in a single day (afternoon) in a basement. Did not check for any variations over time. Not enough to draw any serious conclusions.

7. Some other null result duplications did things like placing the interferometer inside steel pipes, which effectively block the ether wind according to some ether theory, and seemingly emperical evidence.

8. Dayton Miller later built a much more sensitive instrument and performed detailed long term studies on a mountain top. With it, he confirmed MM's speeds, and a bit higher. Also he shows sidereal variations (with stars/interstellar), and was able to correctly compute the axis of solar system travel in galactic space. based on ether wind measurements.

9. Einstein wrote that if Miller's observations are correct, relativity is dead/falsified.

10. After Miller died, one of Einstein's acolytes did a hatchett job on Miller's work. unclear if Einstein was behind it, or simply looked the other way.

11. A couple of 21st century experiments have confirmed the ether wind using other instruments / experiments.

12. Miller may have misinterpreted some of his own data. Demeo later reviewed the raw data and made some corrections to the conclusions.

All this and much much more detail and info in James Demeo's book: The Dynamic Ether of Cosmic Space: Correcting a Major Error in Modern Science He also has a published paper on the same topic and a website.

I would encourage everyone to read Demeo's work.
Demjanov in 1968-72 used a twin media version of the traditional MMX & found that the horizontal component of the aetherwind at Obninsk had a speed of 140 km/s to 480 km/s on June 22. Demjanov since about 2005 wrote about 10 papers in English re his MMX & other things. His MMX was 1000 times as sensitive as the oldenday's MMXs, & his error bars are too small to show (about 1 km/s i think). One could argue about the correctness of his calibration, but anyhow the results kill STR. His results are compatible with the well known aetherwind that blows south to north throo Earth at 500 km/s about 20 deg off Earth's axis, RA 4.5 hr.
STR is krapp -- & GTR is mostly krapp.
The present Einsteinian Dark Age of science will soon end – for the times they are a-changin'.
The aether will return – it never left.

jackokie
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by jackokie » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:38 pm

@danda You have mangled the embedded quote from my earlier post and made it appear it was I who alleged M-M showed negative results. Proper attribution would be
jackokie wrote:
In poking about looking for recent images of Markarian 205 and NGC 4319 in various spectra, I somehow got sidetracked onto the Luminiferous Aether, and ran across this gem on Quora from
Valdis Klētnieks, BS in Mathematics & Physics, Clarkson University (Graduated 1984):

Related
But what makes the Aether hypothesis severely flawed? Which physical phenomena are inconsistent with the Aether model?
But what makes the Aether hypothesis severely flawed? Which physical phenomena are inconsistent with the Aether model?
<snip>
Choose wisely.
Hah! He's discovered dark matter.
In the future, please be more careful when attributing things to me.
Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once.

jackokie
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by jackokie » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:46 pm

@crawler Thank you! I've been wondering how proper aether experiments might be conducted in space. Have you given any thought to the matter?
Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once.

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Brigit
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Brigit » Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:47 am

Aardwolf says » "I'm not entirely convinced redshifting even exists. To measure a redshift what you actually measuring are absorption lines in the spectrum. However, if you actually look at any examples of the shifting lines, you could just make up where you want them to be based on whatever pet theory you're pushing. At distance there are so many lines you can take your pick what they refer to."

I can relate a bit to what Aardwolf is saying here. Looking at his redshift absorption lines, they can be a bit tricky.

What gets me is that when anyone in academia uses these absorption lines, or uses an SEM, or uses the half-life of an element to date a rock, it becomes hard-and-fast scientific results, and goes straight into the textbooks for ever and ever.

But if for example, you may be looking at
  • spectral lines that reveal some transnucleation taking place, then the results are completely subjective.
  • And an SEM? Oh, those pick up whatever you want them to show.
  • Or testing the half-life of an element in a lab. They will assure you they have been analyzing that for decades, and any newly formed rocks can never reflect radioisotope decay that disagrees with the rates used by the lab. Never. The nuclear decay rates of radioisotopes are a PHYSICAL CONSTANT.
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

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Brigit
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Brigit » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:14 am

The nice thing about tired light is that it is testable.



Also sorry, I meant to say SEM and EDS.


ref: Combined with scanning electron microscopy (SEM), EDS derives compositional information from the X-rays that are emitted when the electron beam scans over a sample. The range of elements that this technique can detect spans almost the entire periodic table. The data provided by EDS is essential for a range of applications, from process/quality control to failure analysis and fundamental research.
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

Michael Mozina
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:09 pm

JoeB wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:47 pm IDK if I'm stupid but I don't understand. IF something is more red-shifted, doesn't that supposedly mean it is receding faster, according to what they are saying? But when you say that naturally they are more red shifted because it happens in plasma, what does that mean? Plasma moves away faster the further away it is?
In "mainstream/bang" theory, yes the amount of redshift is related to recessional velocity.

That's not the case in tired light theories however which would simply presume that the larger the redshift, the more "plasma" the light has passed through. There isn't even a clear linear distance relationship in plasma redshift/tired light models because some regions of space are "dustier' than others and generate more redshift than other regions of space. Light simply transfers some amount of momentum to the plasma medium as it traverses space, and the universe is relatively "static" in a typical plasma redshift model.

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Brigit
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Re: Proof of the Big Bang

Unread post by Brigit » Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:18 pm

BaC says, "Like I said there is a growing body of evidence that something in or about the medium between galaxies and us can cause redshift. Not just recession. I leave it to others here to explain that to you."

Regarding tired light, on page 97 & 98 of Seeing Red: Redshifts, Cosmology and Academic Science, Halton Arp had this to say:
  • Tired Light
    "Over the years, many people have argued that photons lose energy on their long voyage through space. This as an entirely reasonable idea, since the distances are the largest we have experience with. But there are several observational arguments that persuade me that this is not an important part of cosmic redshifts:

    The first is that as we look to lower galactic latitudes in our own galaxy, we see objects through an increasing density of gas and dust until they are almost totally obscured. No increase of redshift has ever been demonstrated for objects seen through this increased amount of material."
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

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