Concentric dusty plasma rings similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.
Holger Isenberg
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Concentric dusty plasma rings similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:44 pm

I'm not sure yet if those concentric dust rings are just imaging artifacts by the telescope optics, sensors or AD conversion at low SNR. But if they are real we are most likely seeing concentric double layers like observed at SAFIRE!

https://www.reddit.com/r/jameswebbdisco ... anary_star

more images in different processing stages: https://www.flickr.com/photos/196161576@N06/

The SAFIRE Sun, thunderbolts.info video, layers visible around 3:00:
https://youtu.be/ZBInhPFFVog?t=180
Last edited by nick c on Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: thread title updated

BeAChooser
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:24 am

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by BeAChooser » Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:57 pm

In the reddit link article … “Dust is a key ingredient in the formation of stars”. Really?

That’s about the stupidest statement possible. And you might be right, Holger Isenberg.

Holger Isenberg
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:58 pm

Here some context about the observation plan these images were taken for:

https://www.stsci.edu/jwst/science-exec ... ml?id=1349
Principal Investigator: Ryan Lau
PI Institution: ISAS, Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency
Title: Establishing Extreme Dynamic Range with JWST: Decoding Smoke Signals in the Glare of a Wolf-Rayet Binary
JWST Proposal 1349 (Created: Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:00:13 PM Eastern Standard Time)

While the web page shows ISAS as PI institute, the PDF lists Caltech with a noirlab.edu email address for Ryan Lau, so he either moved from ISAS to Caltech or vice versa.

Surprising to see that the observation plan was filed only 4 days ago. Though there might have been a placeholder schedule entry before, I don't know.

Holger Isenberg
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 pm

The observation plan talks about "7 fossil dust arcs" which are expected to be seen. That may be based on papers like https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 ... 357/ab9cb5 where the concentric rings are modeled as a single spiral, caused by the 8yr rotation period of the binary. In the JWST image it is difficult to interpret whether they are concentric rings as in the SAFIRE experiment or spirals as proposed.

Holger Isenberg
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:05 pm

A visually identical effect was observed in JWST images of Jupiter:
https://twitter.com/ed2k21/status/1549417880747474953 and
https://twitter.com/spacegeck/status/15 ... 4690032640

Either diffraction bands or imaging artifacts there; still an open question.


Cargo
Posts: 697
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:02 am

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Cargo » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:45 am

the process of dust production and the amount of the ejected dust are still open questions
HAHAH, yeah, I bet... silly dust rabbits.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
"You know not what. .. Perhaps you no longer trust your feelings,." Michael Clarage
"Charge separation prevents the collapse of stars." Wal Thornhill

User avatar
Phorce
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:54 am

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Phorce » Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:26 pm

Hi. Is this the same object ?

They say "shells" but it looks 2D to me. If they were shells you'd only be able to see something like ...
nestedSpheres.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Exploration and discovery without honest investigation of "extraordinary" results leads to a Double Bind (Bateson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind ) that creates loss of hope and depression. No more Double Binds !

Holger Isenberg
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:10 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:12 pm

Phorce wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:26 pm Is this the same object ?
They say "shells" but it looks 2D to me.
Yes. Last week the image was again in press releases by NASA and Canadian space agency and the wording switched to rings now. In the past, before the JWST photo, it was most often described as spirals.

The animation in the new JPL video about it looks like the author keep it open to later potentially use it to explain rings or in the 3d-shape concentric shells: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssJ_I5loCbc

To explain it as rings or shells with non-charged plain dust, you would need some pulsing effect and the JPL video looks like it goes into that direction.

But the light intensity gradients between the rings still look more like the visual rings caused by the plasma double layers in SAFIRE, see the last link in my first positing to the SAFIRE video. 3d-shells seen from the side look like rings.

User avatar
Phorce
Posts: 242
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:54 am

Re: Concentric dusty plasma rings around WR 140 seen by JWST, similar to layers seen in SAFIRE?

Unread post by Phorce » Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:02 am

Holger Isenberg wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:12 pm
Phorce wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:26 pm Is this the same object ?
They say "shells" but it looks 2D to me.
But the light intensity gradients between the rings still look more like the visual rings caused by the plasma double layers in SAFIRE, see the last link in my first positing to the SAFIRE video. 3d-shells seen from the side look like rings.
Looks like you nailed it in a recent Tweet.
Exploration and discovery without honest investigation of "extraordinary" results leads to a Double Bind (Bateson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind ) that creates loss of hope and depression. No more Double Binds !

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests