Putting lipstick on a pig …

[BeAChooser]

https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... rk-matter/

XENON’s experimental triumph: No dark matter, but the best “null result” in history

Searching for dark matter, the XENON collaboration found absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Here's why that's an extraordinary feat.

… snip …

With a tour-de-force new set of results, XENON has just catapulted the science of searching for new particles into a realm it’s never been in before: to where ideas that could only be imagined a few years ago have now been excluded by experiment, with much more still to come.

LOL! And THAT is how you dress up a complete failure to encourage even more *investing* in the failure.

[nick c]

From the article, it seems like the Xenon group could not find any evidence for the existence of DM (null result); and are justifying their existence by pointing out that finding null results still contributes to the advancement of science (which is true).

But of course the disturbing part is that at no point is there ever any consideration that maybe the a priori assumption (that the gravity only paradigm is the driving force of the cosmos) may be incorrect.

[BeAChooser]

From the article, it seems like the Xenon group could not find any evidence for the existence of DM (null result); and are justifying their existence by pointing out that finding null results still contributes to the advancement of science (which is true).

Does it? Would my spending billions looking for unicorns advance science?

[nick c]

From the article, it seems like the Xenon group could not find any evidence for the existence of DM (null result); and are justifying their existence by pointing out that finding null results still contributes to the advancement of science (which is true).

Does it? Would my spending billions looking for unicorns advance science?

That quoted sentence of mine was referring to the scientific results, not the financing of the project.

[BeAChooser]

That quoted sentence of mine was referring to the scientific results

What exact result did they get? The same result I'd get looking for unicorns? Again, how does that advance science?

[Cargo]

The only meaningful output of the project that might pay back the expense would be engineering, software, tools, or methods unrelated to finding dark matter that were created, improved, produced by trying to find the unicorn. I seriously doubt it's worth it, but if trying to be positive, that's about the only thing that could an 'advancement of science'. Of course the thing must first be seen from a non-unicorn way of thinking.

[nick c]

BeAChooser,
It is not my problem if you misunderstand what I wrote.

No where in my post can it be remotely interpreted as me defending Dark Matter, the Xenon project etc. If you have read my posts on this forum, it should be quite apparent as to what is my position.

It is a fact of science that a null result does have scientific value. It implies that you did not find what you were looking for in the place you were looking. That contributes to the body of scientific knowledge.

No where in my post did I state or imply that the project was worthwhile or justified financially.

[BeAChooser]

BeAChooser,
It is not my problem if you misunderstand what I wrote.

No where in my post can it be remotely interpreted as me defending Dark Matter, the Xenon project etc.

I think I understood perfectly what you wrote, nick. I think it is you who misunderstood me.

First, I didn't imply or suggest you were defending DM. Not once. I know where you stand on that. But you did defend the Xenon project in that you wrote the Xenon group was "justifying their existence by pointing out that finding null results still contributes to the advancement of science (which is true)." But it's not true, if searching for DM is akin to searching for unicorns. And I think it is. I think most members of the forum think it is.

THAT is what I was suggesting in my response ... "Would my spending billions looking for unicorns advance science?" But you misunderstood and chose to focus on the "spending billions" part of my statement rather than the "unicorns" part. You responded "That quoted sentence of mine was referring to the scientific results, not the financing of the project." So I asked you "What exact result did they get? The same result I'd get looking for unicorns? Again, how does that advance science?"

You now say "It is a fact of science that a null result does have scientific value. It implies that you did not find what you were looking for in the place you were looking. That contributes to the body of scientific knowledge." In response, I say there is no advance in science when you ignore every null result that tells you that your gnome doesn't exist. There is only scientific value if you are willing to acknowledge at some point what the null results you are getting are telling you. The mainstream astrophysics community has not been willing to acknowledge that for decades and decades and decades. Every null result leads to another bigger and *better* experiment. My point is that now they are only wasting BILLIONS of OUR dollars because their real agenda is not advancing science but paying for the nice houses, cars, vacations, jewelry, their kids fancy educations, that they have grown accustomed to enjoying.

[nick c]

You now say "It is a fact of science that a null result does have scientific value. It implies that you did not find what you were looking for in the place you were looking. That contributes to the body of scientific knowledge." In response, I say there is no advance in science when you ignore every null result that tells you that your gnome doesn't exist. There is only scientific value if you are willing to acknowledge at some point what the null results you are getting are telling you. The mainstream astrophysics community has not been willing to acknowledge that for decades and decades and decades. Every null result leads to another bigger and *better* experiment. My point is that now they are only wasting BILLIONS of OUR dollars because their real agenda is not advancing science but paying for the nice houses, cars, vacations, jewelry, their kids fancy educations, that they have grown accustomed to enjoying.

The fact that the tests found nothing is of scientfic value, whether you agree or not. It tells us something. And no where in any of my posts did I seek to justify the money spent.
Again, my post addressed the experiment itself and I did not express any opinion one way or the other on the waste of funds.

I stand by what I wrote.

[BeAChooser]

The fact that the tests found nothing is of scientfic value, whether you agree or not.

I stand by what I wrote, too, nick. I see no "scientific value" in spending more money to derive null results about things like the flat earth, the universe orbiting the sun and the existence of gnomes, for which there are already lots of null results. There's no value at all other than that any money spent investigating those things would benefit the investigator performing such inquiries. But then that value would be canceled by the loss those paying for those investigations would suffer. Scams only benefit the scammer, not the scammee. And the search for DM is a lot like that.

[BeAChooser]

Not to be outdone by those Aussies ...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/badass-d ... 00030.html

This Badass Detector Could Hunt Down Elusive Dark Matter for the First Time

COULD.

The Results So Far

While the first results from the LZ experiment do not contain any indications of dark matter, Lesko points to several positive aspects of the initial research that was collected over the first three months of its operations.

“I have three major take-away points from this first analysis. Firstly, our backgrounds are as low as we expected. Secondly, the detector is operating well and is able to effectively look for dark matter,” Lesko says. “Finally, it is working so well, that with three months of data we have been able to establish a world-leading result, surpassing the earlier experiments, many of which operated for years.”

The “world-leading result” is finding an even *better* null result.

[Cargo]

is able to effectively look for dark matter

I think I see the problem..