The Futility Of Opposition?

[BeAChooser]

Is the reason that discussion of plasma cosmology/electric universe and it's gnome believing opposite is apparently dead on this forum that most people now think it's futile to fight the mainstream consensus? Do they think silence is best right now, so that the mainstream doesn't take notice and send their various gestapos after them? That might explain why most people also seem so complacent where fusion boondoggles, CO2 induced climate change garbage, bogus COVID causes and cures, Critical Race Theory insanity, the lying mainstream media, deep state manipulation of elections, and all the other policies now being implemented by those in power are concerned. Do most folks think that the 3% who are resisting this can stop what's coming? I have my doubts if 3% is all that's needed to fight these things. Oh well ... now for another bit of insanity (hot off the press) from the gnome believers!

https://scitechdaily.com/surprising-dar ... -universe/

Surprising Dark Matter Theory Explains Mysterious, Supermassive Black Holes That Formed Early in the Universe

When astronomers use telescopes to look back in time—toward objects in the universe whose light is only now reaching earth after billions of years—they see something odd. Black holes, big ones, that already existed when the universe was still very young.


This is strange because from what physicists have understood, it takes time for a black hole to eat enough surrounding matter to grow so massive—so it seemed those black holes should not have had time to get so big.


… snip ….


Yu and two other scientists with UC Riverside and the University of Chicago came up with a surprising possible explanation: Those black holes could have formed with the help of dark matter.

Now why should that come as a surprise to any mainstream *scientist* ... or the media lackeys who let them get away with spouting their nonsense? OF COURSE the explanation for something about one gnome that the mainstream can’t explain is going to be another gnome ... one that has remained nothing but a gnome for over 50 years despite billions and billions of dollars spent trying to prove it's existence. And you have to laugh when these so-called, *learned* *scientists* spout garbage like this:

“This ties together two great mysteries in astrophysics—early supermassive black holes and dark matter—very neatly,” said UChicago postdoctoral researcher and study co-author Yi-Ming Zhong.

I’m afraid science is as dead as interest in science is becoming.

[jacmac]

BeAChooser

Is the reason that discussion of plasma cosmology/electric universe and it's gnome believing opposite is apparently dead on this forum .......that most people now think it's futile to fight the mainstream consensus?

The discussion does seem to be dead, as you say BAC.
It might be futile to fight the mainstream consensus when the EU solar system explanation has serious flaws.

Dr Scott asks the question of where is the electric circuit in the solar system to light the sun externally.
He describes a drift current in toward the sun, yet does not answer his own question. What's the actual circuit ?

The general consensus of EU followers is that the sun is a DISCHARGE, as described by Wal Thornhill, and the receiving end is the heliopause. Yes, there is general agreement that the sun is plasma, but there is no detailed description of the discharge.
Which part of the sun is discharging ? The Photosphere is different than the Chromosphere ...is different then the Corona ....Etc.
Why the three parts we call the sun ? Is the photosphere the source of the discharge, or the discharge itself.
How does the sun work ?

The last energetic discussion was trying to sort out weather the sun is an Anode or a Cathode.
It seemed to me that the arguments on each side were mostly talking past each other, and did not get into enough detail to change any minds.
And, in my opinion, they are both flawed because there is no explanation for how the sun (one node) is connected to the voltage source in the Galaxy when it is completely surrounded by the heliopause(other node). Once again, where is the circuit ?

When I had introduced the notion that there might not be a CIRCUIT, in the classic sense, there were no takers; no comments.
When I suggested the idea of the three part sun as the core of a plasma CELL, in the biological sense, there were no questions.
When I talked of the ability of plasma to surround a non plasma body and isolate that body by creating a DOUBLE LAYER to do it, and said that the Chromosphere IS the double layer, there was no discussion, no follow up questions.
(Dr Scott says the chromosphere is a double layer, but in a different context, as I recall)

The mainstream will not give up their scheme until a better one comes along.
The EU scheme is not finished; we have to finish it.
The mainstream is not going to do that for us.
I am ready to defend my ideas, and ready to constructively challenge the ideas of other forum members.
Jack

[Michael Mozina]

Is the reason that discussion of plasma cosmology/electric universe and it's gnome believing opposite is apparently dead on this forum that most people now think it's futile to fight the mainstream consensus? Do they think silence is best right now, so that the mainstream doesn't take notice and send their various gestapos after them? That might explain why most people also seem so complacent where fusion boondoggles, CO2 induced climate change garbage, bogus COVID causes and cures, Critical Race Theory insanity, the lying mainstream media, deep state manipulation of elections, and all the other policies now being implemented by those in power are concerned. Do most folks think that the 3% who are resisting this can stop what's coming? I have my doubts if 3% is all that's needed to fight these things. Oh well ... now for another bit of insanity (hot off the press) from the gnome believers!

https://scitechdaily.com/surprising-dar ... -universe/

Surprising Dark Matter Theory Explains Mysterious, Supermassive Black Holes That Formed Early in the Universe

When astronomers use telescopes to look back in time—toward objects in the universe whose light is only now reaching earth after billions of years—they see something odd. Black holes, big ones, that already existed when the universe was still very young.


This is strange because from what physicists have understood, it takes time for a black hole to eat enough surrounding matter to grow so massive—so it seemed those black holes should not have had time to get so big.


… snip ….


Yu and two other scientists with UC Riverside and the University of Chicago came up with a surprising possible explanation: Those black holes could have formed with the help of dark matter.

Now why should that come as a surprise to any mainstream *scientist* ... or the media lackeys who let them get away with spouting their nonsense? OF COURSE the explanation for something about one gnome that the mainstream can’t explain is going to be another gnome ... one that has remained nothing but a gnome for over 50 years despite billions and billions of dollars spent trying to prove it's existence. And you have to laugh when these so-called, *learned* *scientists* spout garbage like this:

“This ties together two great mysteries in astrophysics—early supermassive black holes and dark matter—very neatly,” said UChicago postdoctoral researcher and study co-author Yi-Ming Zhong.

I’m afraid science is as dead as interest in science is becoming.

I think most of us that have "done the debate circuit" (so to speak) are well aware of the fact that mainstream astrophysicists have their entire financial livelihood, their professional reputation and their personal ego wrapped up in "magic gnomes", so much so that anything and everything which seeks to reject those claims or replace them is immediate met with ridicule, irrational nonsense, hostility, and bans galore. They don't *want* to know the real scientific answers because it destroys their entire career in a one fell swoop. It's much more emotionally and professionally easier to keep adding more metaphysical garbage upon their current metaphysical garbage than it is to even seek any real scientific alternatives to their metaphysical BS.

The one real sticking point for them however is their insistence upon galaxy/black hole evolution over time. The further back in space/time we look, the more it looks exactly the same as our current neighborhood, which flies directly in the face of their galaxy/black hole evolution claims. Now they've reached the point that none of their current theories can adequately explain what we observe in the distant universe, so they are forced to "fudge the numbers" again, and just make crap up on a whim. Quasars in the distant universe are *massive*, far too massive to conform to their evolution over time models, so "dark magic" is being added ever more frequently, and with callous disregard for actual physics, and physical reality. The actual physical behaviors of plasma don't even matter to them anymore because it cannot and will not conform to their evolutionary claims.

In terms of scientific progress, space science is a dead field for the time being, and it has been that way for a least the last couple of decades. The problem however is that time is running out. JWST will show that galaxy and black hole evolution is pure BS, and private enterprise is now achieving planetary orbit. Sooner or later the need to innovate and stay ahead of the competition in space is going to require them to embrace electric universe theories, and the mainstream cosmology model will get crushed in that process. We're probably at least a decade, perhaps two from that happening, so for the time being, the 'old guard' is intent on riding it out until they can retire. They don't give a damn about truth or actual physics, just protecting their asses.

These kinds of articles show just how desperate they've become. Nothing fits in their model anymore. The Hubble constant as calculated based on SN1A data isn't compatible with their estimates based on Planck data. Their evolution over time concept is failing in one observation after another after another. None of their 'predictions' are ever accurate, so they just make this up as they go now.

[Michael Mozina]

According to their simulations, if particles of dark matter in those halos were colliding with each other, such activity could tip the balance of the system towards collapse. That’s because the particles could spread heat to one another as they collided, making the central halo unstable. They also found the dark matter collisions would dissipate the halo’s angular momentum—the quantity that describes the spinning of a body—which further tips the system towards collapse.

They're creating more problems than they're solving by the way. In order for their evolution oriented computer models to work properly as it relates to forming the universe at the largest scales, "cold" (slow moving) dark matter has to only *very weakly* interact, and 'pass through' both ordinary and dark matter. Otherwise the halos would indeed collapse and there would be nothing left of them in the current universe. I suspect that when they try to plug this new made up BS back into the current computer models of expansion and galaxy formation, the whole thing will literally implode on itself over time. It's not going to be compatible with the current galaxy evolutionary models which still require *massive* "cold" dark matter halos around all galaxies today. They're just trading one set of problems for another.

[paladin17]

Is the reason that discussion of plasma cosmology/electric universe and it's gnome believing opposite is apparently dead on this forum that most people now think it's futile to fight the mainstream consensus? Do they think silence is best right now, so that the mainstream doesn't take notice and send their various gestapos after them?

I have personally lost interest to such topics (the way they are usually discussed here) because of their inherent counter-productivity. I receive no new information from reading for the 100th time "oh look how stupid they are" (followed by no alternative model except for the statement that "it is electric!"), so I usually ignore the discussion threads conducted in this spirit.
What I would like to see instead is actual research with actual results being discussed. There were only a few topics here that have (or have had) that; at least that I was able to find.

[antosarai]

I have personally lost interest to such topics (the way they are usually discussed here) because of their inherent counter-productivity. I receive no new information from reading for the 100th time "oh look how stupid they are" (followed by no alternative model except for the statement that "it is electric!"), so I usually ignore the discussion threads conducted in this spirit.
What I would like to see instead is actual research with actual results being discussed. There were only a few topics here that have (or have had) that; at least that I was able to find.

Hear! Hear!

[Michael Mozina]

Is the reason that discussion of plasma cosmology/electric universe and it's gnome believing opposite is apparently dead on this forum that most people now think it's futile to fight the mainstream consensus? Do they think silence is best right now, so that the mainstream doesn't take notice and send their various gestapos after them?

I have personally lost interest to such topics (the way they are usually discussed here) because of their inherent counter-productivity. I receive no new information from reading for the 100th time "oh look how stupid they are" (followed by no alternative model except for the statement that "it is electric!"), so I usually ignore the discussion threads conducted in this spirit.
What I would like to see instead is actual research with actual results being discussed. There were only a few topics here that have (or have had) that; at least that I was able to find.

In terms of actual laboratory research, I think Kristian Birkeland and his team accomplished more in his lifetime than all the space physicists in the past century. The engineering of space physics has improved significantly of course, but in term of "understanding' how things actually and physically work in space, astronomers have been moving backwards for the last century. They know less about solar physics today than Birkeland did IMO. "Magnetic reconnection"? "Magnetic switchbacks"? Sheesh. That nonsense is simply childish pseudoscience.

SAFIRE was a step in the right direction, but it only replicated *half* of Birkeland's work, albeit with better measuring equipment. Still, it beats any "dark matter" experiment hands down.

The problem with getting 'actual research" done is that it requires "actual public funding". That's never going to happen so long as the mainstream keeps squanding all the publc funds and spending it all on invisible snipe hunts. To this very day, mainstream astronomy cannot duplicate or replicate anything Birkeland did in terms of sustaining a planetary aurora in a lab, or sustaining a solar "corona". What does that tell you?

[BeAChooser]

Michael's right, paladin17. The problem here is not those posting evidence (like me) that shows the contradictions, inconsistencies and topic avoidance of the other side. The problem is that the other side (the gnomists) have deliberately choked off almost all the "research" money that needs to go into PC/EU in order to make it even possible to conduct a fair debate off this topic. And given how little funding has been devoted to PC/EU research over the years, is it any wonder that some questions (like yours) remain unanswered? That's not a reason to not address or point out the other sides problems with explaining the data (like I've been doing). If fact, if we stop doing that, they simply win. But when we do manage to get the other side to talk about some actual observations (say, for example, all those helically wound filaments that have been observed out their in the universe) and their implications, they invariable spout obfuscations and lies, and pointing that out when they do it probably helps our cause. And every bit of evidence that goes unanswered by the other side also adds doubt to the minds of those who ultimately are having to fund the many gnome *research* projects. Sooner or later that doubt might break their bank ... kill the golden goose ... and shut off their funding. If that happens, we win. Certainly ignoring the accumulating evidence won't like you seem to be suggesting we do, won't lead to victory. Just saying ...

[paladin17]

The problem with getting 'actual research" done is that it requires "actual public funding". That's never going to happen so long as the mainstream keeps squanding all the publc funds and spending it all on invisible snipe hunts. To this very day, mainstream astronomy cannot duplicate or replicate anything Birkeland did in terms of sustaining a planetary aurora in a lab, or sustaining a solar "corona". What does that tell you?

What that tells me is that if you tie this argument chain together, the main purpose of this forum is to complain about not having money to do actual research. Now it actually makes sense. Though if anything that only makes me even less interested.

[paladin17]

every bit of evidence that goes unanswered by the other side also adds doubt to the minds of those who ultimately are having to fund the many gnome *research* projects.

It does, the problem is that in the meantime the opposition is sitting and complaining about not having money instead of doing research. In a way, I would actually call it a betrayal of the movement.

Sooner or later that doubt might break their bank ... kill the golden goose ... and shut off their funding. If that happens, we win.

Imagine an ideal scenario where suddenly current views of a lot of people would be magically wiped off their minds; in this case, what are you going to provide as an alternative? Anode Sun model that does not work? Why would you think people would give you money to start your research into that?
Maybe come up with a working model in the first place? Like, start to actually think about things?..

[BeAChooser]

Though if anything that only makes me even less interested.

Yet here you are, and if you not interested in talking about observations and their interpretation, what are you talking about?

[BeAChooser]

the opposition is sitting and complaining about not having money instead of doing research.

And just how do you do most research without money? What world do you live in?

Anode Sun model that does not work? Why would you think people would give you money to start your research into that?

Where in anything I've posted here have I mentioned the anode sun model? I haven't because 99.99% of the money being spent by the mainstream that I'm complaining about hasn't a thing to do with the way the sun works. Maybe we can talk about that rather then this tangent of yours?

[jacmac]

BeAChooser

Where in anything I've posted here have I mentioned the anode sun model? I haven't because 99.99% of the money being spent by the mainstream that I'm complaining about hasn't a thing to do with the way the sun works. Maybe we can talk about that rather then this tangent of yours?

It is not a tangent to say the Anode sun model does not work.
I agree with that statement, and I have been supporting the general EU positions for about ten years.
The anode sun model is the one supported by the majority of posters on this forum, by my observations.
But the EU community does not have a detailed model, scheme, or complete idea of how the sun works, in my opinion.

One way to do research without spending money is to read and study published reports and papers of those
who have spent money and have done research. There are lots of papers reporting on what is happening on and around the sun,
the solar system, near space, and very deep space. The technical achievements of the astronomy community are quite stunning.
It is their narrow, gravity does everything, constraint that impedes progress.

If we can focus on details and not general platitudes like " it is electric", as paladin 17 has suggested, we would be in a much stronger position .
If it turns out that the James Webb telescope exposes fully formed galaxies at the so called beginning of Big Bang time, for instance, the standard model people will just figure out some new adjustment of their scheme ,and will not look to plasma cosmology or the EU,
IF WE DON'T KNOW HOW THE SUN WORKS.

Jack

[BeAChooser]

It is not a tangent to say the Anode sun model does not work.

I think it is because he's trying to characterize all PU/EU proponents as believing in that model. And my complaint clearly had to do to the money and time and opportunities being wasted on Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Black Holes, galaxies and gravity only models of star formation.

The anode sun model is the one supported by the majority of posters on this forum, by my observations.

But I haven't written a word about that. My posts have dealt with the items mentioned which, as I noted, is where 99.99% of the research money is now going.

One way to do research without spending money is to read and study published reports and papers of those who have spent money and have done research.

Which is exactly what most of my posts show I've been doing ... just not with the tangent of the anode sun model.

There are lots of papers reporting on what is happening on and around the sun,
the solar system, near space, and very deep space. The technical achievements of the astronomy community are quite stunning.
It is their narrow, gravity does everything, constraint that impedes progress.

Sorry, but I believe it's inconsistencies with the mainstreams models of the things I've mentioned that will eventually bring the mainstream's house of cards down ... not anything those obsessed with the sun are now doing, not with the budgets they've got to do it. In contrasts, observations coming from the massive amounts of money the mainstream is devoting to dark matter etc IS definitively proving our side correct. So we should be taking every opportunity to point that out ... not ignore it like paladin and you seem to be suggesting.

If we can focus on details and not general platitudes like " it is electric"

And I haven't been doing that either. I've pointed out specific phenomena/observations that make no rational sense in the context of the mainstream model. And I've offered the alternative PC/EU understanding of the physics involved ... not simple a platitude. Alternatives that lab data and calculations clearly suggest are right.

If it turns out that the James Webb telescope exposes fully formed galaxies at the so called beginning of Big Bang time, for instance, the standard model people will just figure out some new adjustment of their scheme ,and will not look to plasma cosmology or the EU, IF WE DON'T KNOW HOW THE SUN WORKS.

Adjustments involving more gnomes? Sorry, but I think their adjustments (when it comes to galaxies, filaments, etc) are rapidly reaching a brick wall. Even ordinary people are beginning to figure out that they are BS.

The good thing about the James Webb data and the Sloan data and all the data showing that redshifts are wrong (for example) and that helically wound filaments (which they can't explain) are everywhere, is that these inconsistencies are obvious to the eye and the lab data that we already have shows that our model explains them and theirs does not (not without adding still more gnomes).

The truth, Jack, is that we don't need to understand the sun NOW to prove that dark matter and all the rest of what the mainstream is spending 99.99% of the research budget on is complete nonsense. And all we have to do is convince the public to stop that spending and then there will be plenty of money to explore how the sun really works. Discrediting the mainstream with regard to all I've noted will discredit the mainstream's efforts to force their model of the sun on you. The truth is that you don't currently know how the sun works so you can't definitely prove the mainstream wrong. Even the data from the Parker Probe and other recent instruments has not been a smoking gun for you to do that ... not like the data from Hubble, Webb, etc is turning out to be for people like me. And with no research budget of your own, you aren't going to be able to find/prove how the sun really works. . So your best bet to get what you want (better research of the sun) is to start concentrating on the topics I've been posting on this forum because they'll discredit your opponents and free up the funding to do that. Just saying ...

[Michael Mozina]

The problem with getting 'actual research" done is that it requires "actual public funding". That's never going to happen so long as the mainstream keeps squanding all the publc funds and spending it all on invisible snipe hunts. To this very day, mainstream astronomy cannot duplicate or replicate anything Birkeland did in terms of sustaining a planetary aurora in a lab, or sustaining a solar "corona". What does that tell you?

What that tells me is that if you tie this argument chain together, the main purpose of this forum is to complain about not having money to do actual research. Now it actually makes sense. Though if anything that only makes me even less interested.

No, the purpose of the forum is to exchange ideas, to debate different beliefs within the EU/PC community (anode vs. cathode sun), and to discuss topics of space with people who are interested in *real physical* explanations for things we observe in space.

It's just sad IMO that the mainstream is *so* closed minded that they are unable and unwilling to entertain *any* alternatives to their metaphysical nonsense, and they quite literally do *not allow* for funding to be diverted into experiments that actually work in the lab.

I don't even support an anode sun concept, but SAFIRE was a worthwhile experiment IMO anyway, if only because it actually *works* in the lab to produce things like *sustained* hot plasma, and it might lead to new ideas and new technologies over time. On the other hand, how many times do you have to go on an invisible matter snipe hunt before you start to question the validity of that claim?