Sci-Fi Kinda Question

[Earl Sinclair]

In an EU, in our solar system, if you sent a ship to 1.5-2.0 AU perpendicular to the ecliptic, what kind of radiation would you expect? Where would expect the plasma "bubbles" be, or whatever it's called, and what kinds of magnetic or electrical forces would you expect?

Thanks,


Earl

[paladin17]

I wouldn't expect anything significantly different. Ulysses probe actually was a couple of a.u. above and below the ecliptic.
Same goes fo Voyagers and a couple of other probes.

[Earl Sinclair]

OK, so I guess the real question is - if you sent manned spacecraft to 1.5-2.0 AU - what kind of precautions would you take to ensure that the humans weren't harmed. Life on Earth is possible because of the magnetic field, to help deflect / manipulate solar wind and such - would such a thing be desirable on a ship that will be in space for 2 years or so?

I'm trying to get some realistic parameters for a story I'm writing.

Thanks,


Earl

[paladin17]

OK, so I guess the real question is - if you sent manned spacecraft to 1.5-2.0 AU - what kind of precautions would you take to ensure that the humans weren't harmed. Life on Earth is possible because of the magnetic field, to help deflect / manipulate solar wind and such - would such a thing be desirable on a ship that will be in space for 2 years or so?

It is assumed to be the case, yes. So usually people talk about shielding of some sorts (either by reinforcing the spacecraft's walls or even adding some magnetic field of its own for it).
But if you look at it more broadly, we've only known life from Earth in the first place, so we don't know if magnetic field is really that necessary for life in general.

[allynh]

1.5 to 2.0 AU is just past Mars orbit, out to the start of the asteroid belt, so you would need the same radiation protection that you would need to travel to Mars and the Belt.

The Heliopause, where the Sun's atmosphere meets the Galactic atmosphere, is at 121 AU, so you are still well within the Solar System.

For radiation protection, they are talking about using water as shielding around a protective storm shelter and using fabric hulls. Having a metal hull turns out to be dangerous when Cosmic radiation hits the metal and acts like a shotgun blast of particles.

Robert Bigelow has been developing an inflatable hull that should provide protection without the spray of particles.

This Expandable Structure Could Become the Future of Living in Space
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180958698/

Of course, the kind of spaceship you have in your story depends on how close to the real world you want to be.

[Earl Sinclair]

Interesting Allynh - my idea was for an inflatable hull, too, though for different reasons..I've done a lot of origami, and it's related to that...

Also, the 1.5 au is PERPENDICULAR to the ecliptic - basically going straight UP, not OUT as it were...My fictitious ship can certainly go farther if that would help them encounter some nasties...you know, to get the story going.


Earl

[allynh]

Origami is the way to go on many levels.

The Origami Revolution Preview | NOVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYS2H4t-Ih0

This is the PBS website for the episode. It looks like they are not streaming it at this time, but the transcript is available on the site.

The Origami Revolution
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/the ... evolution/

If you are using known physics then the only way to be 1.5 AU perpendicular to the elliptic is to be in a polar orbit around the Sun which means that you will cross the elliptic around Mars orbit twice as you travel above then below the elliptic. Each time that you cross the elliptic you have the risk of hitting something.

If you are using new physics that lets you travel straight up without going into orbit around the Sun, then you have to decide why the characters need to be above/below the elliptic. Either side is a lot of empty space, so you have to explain why the nasties would be out there.

If you need to use new physics, I came up with a fun idea that I call an "Origami Shunt". Feel free to use it.

The ship folds space around it, and when it unfolds it is at the destination. The only travel time is the act of folding and unfolding. This would be the same visual effect as in the TV series Star Trek: Discovery.

USS Discovery jumps to Terralysium | Star Trek: Discovery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8dPQcXXw4M

If you have yet to find a book or method to write a novel, try this website.

The Snowflake Method For Designing A Novel
https://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/ ... ke-method/

He has two writing books listed on the page, both are useful examples of how to get started.

Have fun.

[Earl Sinclair]

On the PBS Origami video - I've seen that. Dr Robert Lang and I have known each other since the middle 90s. My origami idea is an amalgam between origami and those inflatable tents where the spars are tubes that get rigid with air. The assumption is that air pressure doesn't need to be but about 1/2 of earth normal, with a tinge more oxygen percentage - not too much, or everything's too flammable. But, with a lower ship's air pressure, explosive decompression is less likely.

The reason the ship is going there is research - standard hand-wave, I know. I just need it to be somewhere unexpected, I guess. But, possibly intersecting a filament is the idea.


Earl

[Earl Sinclair]

Where would one expect to encounter a filament, and would there be hazards, or possible hazards?

I'm just trying to set-up a scenario that would be realistic within the EU parameters.


Earl

[Solar]

Where would one expect to encounter a filament, and would there be hazards, or possible hazards?

I'm just trying to set-up a scenario that would be realistic within the EU parameters.


Earl

The type of instrumentation on spacecraft (magnetometers, plasma wave sensors, electric field sensors etc) would inform as to whether or not a filament were encountered just as it does today. A document such as this ...

Plasma and Magnetic-Field Structure of the Solar Wind at Inertial-Range Scale Sizes Discerned From Statistical Examinations of the Time-Series Measurements: Joseph E. Borovsky

... informs as to what the various sensors on such a spacecraft might show as indicating that a filament ("flux tube") were encountered. It's necessary to understand that document, or one like it, considering the nature of the question(s). It includes concepts such as "The Flux-Tube Texture of the Heliospheric Magnetic Field" which means 'filamentary nature'. Sudden changes in the directions of charged particles would be another indicator accompanied by sudden changes in the magnetic field along with changes in the polarity (the magnetic field direction) of the "flux tubes".

The document referenced also refers to "this spaghetti of magnetic flux tubes"; they are kind of all over the place see. Sometimes the "flux tubes", or filaments, could be so large that the pilot would think that they were not in such a tube. Sometimes the changes in magnetic field direction, particle flow direction, and polarity would reverse so fast that the pilot might recognized a "switchback". This would be the signature of a "kink" in the flux tube where the filamentary current would seem to 'fold back' on itself. This would have been cause by an earlier burst of charged particles from the sun moving faster than the normal flow of charged particles along the flux tube.

Without having, or understanding the readings of the appropriate instrumentation, the pilot would not know they've encountered a "flux tube" or filament at all. If said spacecraft were somewhere above the sun's poles the "winds" of particles would probably have greater velocity, perhaps the magnetic field strength would be greater and thus all properties as indicated by the instruments on a craft might increase significantly - and yet follow the same pattern. I'd add sensors to determine 'particle type (ions, electrons, protons, molecules, atoms, muons, neutrons, etc.

As far as hazards go there is a story of one of the actual astronauts repeatedly seeing 'bright flashes' while on a space craft. It were later ascertained that they were caused by Cosmic Rays. Space, wether in a filament; or not, is one of the most lethal places to the human condition due to all manner of intense ionizing radiation(s). Being inside a filament would be the last thing a pilot would need to worry about but the instrumentation would probably indicate an uptick in particle velocities and particle density magnetic field intensity and/or electric field decrease due to an increase in the presence of mobile charges.

Insofar as the passengers, instrumentation, and cargo onboard there is: Spacecraft Shielding

Well, that was kinda fun.

[allynh]

Solar,

Wow, the google search found a ton of fun stuff, and there are a bunch of papers on the topic.

The Role of Turbulence in the Solar Wind, Magnetosphere, Ionosphere Dynamics
https://www.frontiersin.org/research-to ... s#articles

I need to harvest and read them. There has to be something useful for story in there.

Thanks...

[Earl Sinclair]

Thanks Solar, that's the kind of thing I was looking for. I'm a "hard" science fiction fan - I want things that are actually possible, rather than wacky uber-alien "Q Continuum" kinda stuff.


Earl

[Earl Sinclair]

So - another question...you know how humans work on high-tension power lines? Basically, a man wears a suit that conducts electricity so that the current flows around the man, instead of through him.

They fly this guy in a helicopter near the power lines ( 400,000 volts+ ), and they extend a conducting stick to the tower or whatever, and the guy jumps onto the tower and does his thing. Awe-freakin-some.

My question - can a Birkeland current "filament" act like this, and if something passed through it, and wasn't properly shielded or whatever - would it make sense that the current would flow through, rather than around the object? And, if so, what kind of voltages / current are we talking about.

Basically, could some sort of structure "short circuit" a Birkeland current briefly, and if so, how large would such a structure be? And, knowing that, I assume there is a way for such a structure ( "ship" ) to tap-into a Birkeland current and use its power?

Thanks!


Earl

[allynh]

Everything scales.

Extremely Dangerous job! High Power Line Worker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGoaXZwFlJ4

Read Roger Zelazny's, Isle of the Dead.

Isle of the Dead (Zelazny novel)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_t ... zny_novel)

The character creates whole worlds, and uses a "power-pull" when he needs to tap into the energy of the world. I consider the book pure EU fiction.

- The thing to do, is write the story without explicitly talking about EU stuff.

Let the story speak for itself, and avoid the knee jerk attacks of Space Cadets when they see the key words that upset them.

These are some old threads from Forum 2.0 that might give you more ideas.

What would EU sci-fi be like?
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 616#p62034

Faster than light travel limitations
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 31#p112290

EU theory and UFO questions
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 48#p115529

We looked at variations of what you are shooting for. Pick what makes sense to you and run with it. As long as you are internally consistent that is all that matters. It is all too easy to get trapped into "literal" thinking. That unless you can actually build the ship and fly, then the story fails.

- Think of what you are doing "with" the ship, and less on "how" it works.

In today's stories, when you want to zip to the store and get some milk, you simply say you jumped in the car and got the milk.

If you were writing it a hundred years ago, you would go into vast detail about how the internal combustion engine worked, and bore people to tears. HA!

[Earl Sinclair]

Thanks for you help, Allynh. A LOT.

I'm not a professional writer, at all, though I have written a novel ( takes place in current times ), and a few short stories.

This is only the second time I have an entire plot come to me fully-formed. I intend to use my Navy experience to get the "look-and-feel" of the vessel, and I think that the plot is interesting - but then again, why wouldn't I? Question is, will anybody else find it so.

Anyway, I don't necessarily want to have a long discussion of how they go to where they are, or the predicament they're in. BUT, I'd like the set-up to be possible in the real universe without having to resort to complete "magic" to do so. Again, I'm more hard-science fiction than fantasy.

I've read a LOT of what passes for SciFi these days, and 90% of it ( outside of fantasy ) is very military and concentrates on battles and such. My story is completely different. I'm not even sure that a shotgun will survive the first chapter. If there's a shotgun onboard...

I just need enough information to ensure I get the first few hurdles in, before I reveal the "OMG" moment, followed by solving and resolution.

Oh, and the "heroes" of this are nerds. 'cuz, you know.


Earl