SAFIRE

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.
Mjolnir
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SAFIRE

Unread post by Mjolnir » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:45 am

<Moderator Edit> This thread is a continuation from here:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 92#p129192
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Found this mentioned at www.lenr-forum.com:

https://aureon.ca/

-Mjolnir
Last edited by nick c on Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: link to 2.0 added

jacmac
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by jacmac » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:54 pm

Wow.
I'll have to watch that video again.

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JP Michael
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by JP Michael » Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:26 pm

This is exciting on one level, yet disappointing on another.

I'm super-excited that electric universe assumptions have resulted in a technology to power our future and decontaminate nuclear fission byproduct. 115 years of Einstein have given us the gloom of a nuclear winter. Nuclear summer is on its way!

Whether we will actually see a working reactor in the next 10-20 years will depend on Aureon retaining its independence from big industry, that is, refusing to be bought out and the tech obfuscated and forgotten, as has happened countless times in history already. A part of me expects the powers-that-(shouldnt)-be in the coal, gas and petroleum industries will ensure this tech never sees the light of day, but I would love to be completely wrong on this point!

It is disappointing, however, because so few papers have emerged from the research process. This makes the claim of having replicated 'the electric sun' model difficult to verify, especially when one needs to specify which electric sun model is meant (Birkeland's, Alfven's, Juergens', or novel?) as 'verified'.

Yes, they've proven the concept of an amazing, self-containing and self-perpetuating spherical plasma. But there is more work to be done to demonstrate it operates on the same or similar principles to our solar orb.

Higgsy
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Higgsy » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 am

I have a depressing sense of deja vu; this is Mills and the hydrino all over again. And Mills is expert at playing this scam. Aureon are beginners. Are there enough marks with deep pockets and little sense to fund two separate "burn-it-up" reactor developments? After little actual science (which was the supposed to be the point of the exercise), the temptation to cash in with big words and interminable development timescales just proved too much for the principals. I promise I'll come to this forum and eat my words the day that Aureon actually sells a product to the public that gets dwellings or busineses off-grid.
"Why would the conservation of charge even matter?" - Cargo

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JP Michael
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by JP Michael » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:13 am

Higgsy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 am
After little actual science...
:roll:

Yup, because only The Establishment is allowed to determine what 'actual science' is. Starting with any assumption apart from what The Establishment deems acceptable is clearly unscientific, and engaging for 7 years in empirical observations of spherical plasma regimes to validate a 3 phase Proof of Experiment clearly amounts to little 'actual science' as judged by the Authoritarian Consensus Mainstream, aka Higgsyism. Your observation is very accurate and betrays the fundamental forces that have hindered the last century of scientific advance.

And you wonder why astrophysics is perpetually stuck in a black hole of its own psychosis.

Thanks for continually demonstrating what is wrong with science today. I hope to see you eating your monitor in the not-too-distant future, electricity and all, when Aureon rolls out its first prototype reactor.

Higgsy
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Higgsy » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:09 am

JP Michael wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:13 am
Higgsy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 am
After little actual science...
Yup, because only The Establishment is allowed to determine what 'actual science' is.
Nope, because after seven years of dicking around, the SAFIRE project has produced just one peer reviewed paper way back in 2015. And now they are claiming over-unity power and transmutation of elements without any attempt at independent validation, and the begging bowl is out. Where have I seen all this before?
Starting with any assumption apart from what The Establishment deems acceptable is clearly unscientific, and engaging for 7 years in empirical observations of spherical plasma regimes to validate a 3 phase Proof of Experiment clearly amounts to little 'actual science' as judged by the Authoritarian Consensus Mainstream, aka Higgsyism. Your observation is very accurate and betrays the fundamental forces that have hindered the last century of scientific advance.
Don't shoot the messenger. It's not my fault that SAFIRE has been pretty much unproductive in terms of actual science published, and now is seeking to cash in on people's gullibility. Everything around Aureon has the same unmistakeable air that surrounds Mills and the Blacklight Power scam, or whatever it is called these days.

Just look at that video. Listing simple instruments such as UV and IR cameras, 4K video cameras (!), Langmuir probes and thermocouples as though they are some sort of validation of the sophistication of the work. Claiming nuclear reactions producing elements up atomic number 58 without rhyme or reason at 1,600 degrees and a few torr (and in what way does that "reproduce the Sun's atmosphere"?). Seeing a temporary increase in energy output as anything other than a conventional burn-it-up chemical reaction. References to sciency sounding but scientifically meaningless concepts such as high energy plasma, hydrogen catalyst and so on. Name dropping: Lockheed Martin, DoD, Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore, University of Toronto.

And don't get me started on the nuclear waste remediation claims. Transuranic nuclear waste remediation is a thing, although it doesn't produce purely stable products as the video claims, but radioactive species with a much shorter half-life. It works by exposing the waste to huge fluxes of neutrons. These neutrons can be produced by spallation off heavy targets by high energy 1GeV protons (hydrogen nuclei), energies which are produced in particle accelerators and way, way above anything SAFIRE could possibly produce. Or the neutrons can be produced in conventional fission reactors. For the health of the people in that lab, I hope that the little plasma wasn't producing 1GeV protons and/or a high flux of neutrons. But according to the video the waste products just have to be exposed to hydrogen isotope nuclei to be transmuted to "base elements" (whatever they are). It's a completely bogus claim like the rest of it.
And you wonder why astrophysics is perpetually stuck in a black hole of its own psychosis.
And you wonder why the EU/PC community has trouble gaining credibility. This nonsense is just one reason why.
"Why would the conservation of charge even matter?" - Cargo

GHDW
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by GHDW » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:20 pm

The SAFIRE apparatus was able to transmute elements within the double banded plasma region while the Wendlestein 7-X can only produce tritium in microscopic amounts at best.
It only took building a star-in-a-jar experiment outside the box of mainstream science to learn this great discovery.

Higgsy
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Higgsy » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:54 pm

GHDW wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:20 pm
The SAFIRE apparatus was able to transmute elements within the double banded plasma region...
And your evidence for that is what?
"Why would the conservation of charge even matter?" - Cargo

Michael Mozina
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:44 pm

Higgsy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:09 am
JP Michael wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:13 am
Higgsy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 am
After little actual science...
Yup, because only The Establishment is allowed to determine what 'actual science' is.
Nope, because after seven years of dicking around, the SAFIRE project has produced just one peer reviewed paper way back in 2015. And now they are claiming over-unity power and transmutation of elements without any attempt at independent validation, and the begging bowl is out. Where have I seen all this before?
LIGO? Dark matter experiments? Please. Talk about pure hypocrisy. At least in SAFIRE's case they explain how their experiment works, and what to look for in terms of expected new elements showing up in the experiment. I'll grant you that I don't understand how they eliminate elemental contamination from the container and various things inside the container, but if I wanted to replicate the experiment I could, and I'd know what to look for in terms of verifying their results. Compare and contrast that with dark matter experiments. All I could hope to replicate is more "null" DM results, but that doesn't stop DM proponents from putting their hands out and asking for more money for a "bigger" experiment. "Just let us try it again with more Xenon...."
And you wonder why the EU/PC community has trouble gaining credibility. This nonsense is just one reason why.
Wow. Talk about projection. GW wave proponents much have now sunk close to a billion dollars into finding GW waves, and no single individual or even a major sized group could hope to fund an independent experiment to even check their work. It takes a whole *country* to build one. Worse yet, we're to believe that these are almost all entirely 'invisible" events which can only be confirmed to even be celestial in origin in something under 10 percent of the time at best case. LIGO's retraction rate is close to 30 percent and they have no legitimate way to differentiate between ordinary "blip transients" and GW waves.

The mainstream has wasted *tens of billions* of dollars on dark matter snipe hunts, and they have absolutely nothing to show for any of it. They can't even make up their mind what *form* DM takes in the first place! The LCDM model violates conservation laws of energy in *two different ways*! You're the last person who should be complaining about "credibility". Talk about pure hypocrisy on a stick.

Michael Mozina
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:07 pm

Higgsy wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:09 am
And now they are claiming over-unity power and transmutation of elements without any attempt at independent validation, and the begging bowl is out.
And by the way....

SAFIRE is absolutely *not* suggesting anything related to "over-unity". That's a blatantly false assertion. What they are stating is the observation of a "transmutation of elements" in the chamber, and perhaps implying fusion, but they aren't claiming to get something from nothing.

Note that the LCDM model however is one giant violation of the conservation of energy laws. Both the concept of "space expansion" and "dark energy" grossly violate conservation of energy laws. How the heck does this magical stuff called "dark energy" retain a constant density throughout exponential increases in volume due to 'space expansion"? Talk over over-unity nonsense! Alan Guth even called his inflation process the ultimate "free lunch".

You know....

It's amazing to me what great lengths you go to in order to avoid dealing with the *glaring* problems in your own solar and cosmology model. Whatever SAFIRE's faults and problems might be, they *pale* in comparison to the *outrageous* empirical and scientific problems in the LCDM cosmology model.

At worst case SAFIRE is simply wrong about being able to fuse elements in their chamber, but it's entirely possible to replicate their work for a few million dollars. Compare that to the cost of building a couple of gravitational wave detectors to be able to even "check" on LIGO's clams.

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glowmode
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by glowmode » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 pm

Michael Mozina wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:07 pm
And by the way....

SAFIRE is absolutely *not* suggesting anything related to "over-unity". That's a blatantly false assertion. What they are stating is the observation of a "transmutation of elements" in the chamber, and perhaps implying fusion, but they aren't claiming to get something from nothing.
Actually, they claim that the plasmoid can enter a "stable state" by just powering it up. Essentially, once the anode builds a net charge, the thing creates a "stable state" that draws no additional power. This is pointing to a stable state of plasma activity, which completely changes the metaphysical implications of the work.

Here is a YouTube video where, in the comments, Monty confirms the above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StU1duCeDTU

Also, if people are open minded to the possibilities, can anyone discuss the LENR findings in the context of the EU paradigm? Respond to the work that listed in the video, aka Ken Shoulders, Hutchison, Matsumoto, and others who have done high-energy experiments that all found "stable-state" results.

And don't just poo-poo it. Look into that work closely, and ask yourself why Monty is finding identical results, and reporting the same "impossible" steady-state action. What are the possibilities here?

GHDW
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by GHDW » Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:12 pm

The video has been released on YouTube and it's receiving a largely positive response.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBInhPFFVog

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Zyxzevn
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:20 pm

glowmode wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 pm
..
Actually, they claim that the plasmoid can enter a "stable state" by just powering it up. Essentially, once the anode builds a net charge, the thing creates a "stable state" that draws no additional power. This is pointing to a stable state of plasma activity, which completely changes the metaphysical implications of the work.
..
When the plasma is very ionized, the resistance gets very low.
So sustaining this plasma may not draw much power, due to the very low resistance.

There is also a current flowing which has a certain impedance.
So if you switch it off the current will still keep on flowing.

These principles make it hard to see what the apparatus is actually doing related to power.

With the sun, we don't know what drives the clear measurable currents.
Even the mainstream expects currents, but have a lot of denial in their models.
There is probably some interesting principle behind this, but
to drive any current, we need a sustained charge-separation.
Like electrons shooting out, while protons stay or something.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

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nick c
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by nick c » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:18 am

Higgsy wrote:And now they are claiming over-unity power and transmutation of elements without any attempt at independent validation, and the begging bowl is out.


Underline added
And your evidence for that is what? I must have missed that, could you please produce a source where over unity power was claimed by SAFIRE?

Michael Mozina
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Re: SAFIRE

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:31 am

nick c wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:18 am
Higgsy wrote:And now they are claiming over-unity power and transmutation of elements without any attempt at independent validation, and the begging bowl is out.
And your evidence for that is what? I must have missed that, could you please produce a source where over unity power was claimed by SAFIRE?
He probably heard it over at ISF/JREF. :)

The pattern of EU/PC hater behavior is pretty well established now. They never actually *study* the models they badmouth. Instead they simply "make up" a whole bunch of utter nonsense and they spread their own disinformation liberally around the internet. Then they disallow and/or complain to the moderators about any *honest discussion* of the actual science behind the concept. They parrot each other everywhere they go, and they repeat that dishonest and reprehensible pattern of behavior over and over and over again.

They falsely and dishonestly claim that electric suns predict "no neutrinos" and SAFIRE claims to have built an "over-unity" machine, and there is no math to support EU/PC theory. They just lie through their teeth. They never apologize and they never actually learn a damn thing.

That's exactly why we are still stuck in the literal dark ages of astronomy in 2020.

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