Plasma and Abiogenesis

[jacmac]

Thanks for your comments Surik.
I personally left the idea of Intelligent design in about 1958.
Nothing since has changed my opinion.
I have more recently come to think that the cell structure of living organisms
has an historical foundation in the ability of plasma to "self organize" into double layers;
in this case very small spherical shapes.

[jacmac]

Here is a small update:
From biochemist Nick Lane;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBiIDwBOqQA&t=425s

Watch from about 7....to....10 minutes; or more if you like.
Paraphrasing: The thickness of a cell membrane is so small that it's charge is about the same as a lightning bolt.
This relates directly to the scale of my proposed lightning generated cell sized double layer proto cell membrane.
Nick lane talks about the need for a cell power source, and describes It's electric nature.
He comes closest to my idea that I have found so far.
If I find his e-mail address I will send him this hypothesis.
Jack

[Cargo]

Amazing talk. Thank you for sharing.
I can't help but think of the galaxies and constellations on this slide at 22:25

The Electric Universe

[jacmac]

This thread is proposing that the beginning of living cells have originated
in a significant part by the ability of plasma to generate cell sized spherical double layers.
I am including the work of Michael Levin here as general supporting evidence that this is correct.
That the electric nature of biology is foundational to life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLiHLDrOTW8
There is a lot of material in this presentation, and he talks fast.
But, there are other interviews on U-Tube also where his work might be more accessible.

He demonstrates that when "normal" path's of development of living creatures, or parts of living creatures, are interfered with by changing the electrical signatures in these parts, the living organisms find new ways to develop and reach their goals.
Of special interest to me is his discussion of the bioelectric nature of the early development of the forms of living creatures.
He shows the bioelectric presence of a tadpole eye before the eye itself grows, for example. And much more.
LMK what you think of this material.
Jack

[jacmac]

Here is an update with my comment on one of biochemist Nick lane's interview videos :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vqYJIyBis0&t=10s
At about 38:40 Nick says:

"Driving this reaction between CO2 and H at the origin of life requires an electrical charge on a membrane, and so electrically charged membranes go right back to the beginning, and it's the only way really of integrating the cell as an entity in relation to it's environment."

My comment:
Plasma, in the form of lightning, can provide the proto form of the required charged membranes as a result of electric discharge. Plasma is 99% of the universe, self organizes into double layers(charge separation) in the shapes of planes, cylinders, and spheres. And its characteristics are evident at all scales. Biology has grown out of and lives on the forms and electric forces found in plasma.

[jackokie]

@jacmac This linked article is only indirectly related to abiogenesis, but it reinforces the fundamental importance of electricity in biology. In this case it involves the molecular bonds instrumental to the cell's structure and behavior, and opportunistic approaches to disrupt it.

https://scitechdaily.com/antibiotic-bre ... ved-toxin/

[jacmac]

This site is a long discussion about micro sized metal spheres found in
the processes and activities involved in arc welding.
Although these folks are looking into this topic for reasons other than Abiogenesis
I present it here because there are several comments about the spheres
being made when there is arc welding, or sparks are present from grinding metal, or the burning of steel wool. Etc.
Of course I propose that the various forms of the plasma involved generate the sphere shape(double layers) and
then the spheres trap or contain the material that is present, such as with lightning and the "primordial soup".
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/making ... ning.9533/
Jack

[jacmac]

Update:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _bio-cells
Here is the abstract.
I don't have access to the paper yet...

Abstract
This brief article presents an amalgamated fusion of “physical plasma” and “biological plasma”, which are, hitherto, remaining as two distinct autonomous natural entities. It is emphasized that this bio-physical coupling procedure is operable to see living bio-cells and evolutionary dynamics exactly from a new interdisciplinary perspective of atypical plasma-wall interface phenomenology alongside an aboveboard indication to nontrivial scope.

I'm looking forward to reading this paper without joining something....???

I posted some of this on May 6, 2022
I present here another, longer, reference to a Freeman Dyson quote.
from this paper:
https://www.science20.com/stars_planets ... gin_chance

I will close with a quote from Freeman Dyson, a theoretical physicist at Princeton University who also enjoys thinking about the origin of life:

“You had what I call the garbage bag model. The early cells were just little bags of some kind of cell membrane, which might have been oily or it might have been a metal oxide. And inside you had a more or less random collection of organic molecules, with the characteristic that small molecules could diffuse in through the membrane, but big molecules could not diffuse out. By converting small molecules into big molecules, you could concentrate the organic contents on the inside, so the cells would become more concentrated and the chemistry would gradually become more efficient. So these things could evolve without any kind of replication. It's a simple statistical inheritance. When a cell became so big that it got cut in half, or shaken in half, by some rainstorm or environmental disturbance, it would then produce two cells which would be its daughters, which would inherit, more or less, but only statistically, the chemical machinery inside. Evolution could work under those conditions.”

[jacmac]

And This paper:
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002A ... G/abstract

A recent theoretical publication in the American Journal of Physics [1] investigates a mathematical model of plasma double layers, and their applicability to understanding ion transport across cell membranes. Cell membranes have selective permeability to the transport of different charged particles, similar to ion and electron movement across a double layer in a plasma. An existing voltage difference between the cells internal cytoplasm and the external bio-plasma causes a double layer to form between the cytoplasm and the bio-plasma. We present our design of a plasma created in a vessel with two distinct cross sections, similar to the model mentioned in the paper. When two plasmas of different cross sectional areas are considered, a double layer in the plasma forms on the interface between the two separate volumes. We use a Langmuir probe to evaluate plasma parameters such as electric potential, electric field, and charge density in the areas inside and surrounding the plasma double layer. These are used to show the similarity between charge transport across a plasma double layer, and ion transport across a cell membrane. [1] M. Uehara, K. K. Sakane, H.S. Maciel and W.I. Urruchi, "Physics and Biology: Bio-plasma physics," Am. J. Phys. 68 (5), 450-455 (2000).

A reminder.
I propose that lightning striking the earth presents on the earth surface CELL SIZED SPHERICLE PLASMA DOUBLE LAYERS.
These charged spheres are the DYSON GARBAGE BAGS, which capture, or interact with, the so called "primordial soup" that might happen to be present.
Thus the probabilities of organic chemistry developing receive a giant boost via a ready made , and charged, cell membrane.

These papers using plasma double layers as models for cell membranes seem to be looking right at my proposal but are not saying it
As far as I know.
Jack

[Arcmode]

jacmac, you wrote:

'I personally left the idea of Intelligent design in about 1958.'

Can you explain why?

[jacmac]

I stopped going to "church" at the age of 16.
For reasons I cannot remember exactly, I decided I did not "believe" in GOD.
Intelligent design was not a thing at that time, as far as I know.
I think that people do not need a "faith" to be moral and/or to be a positive member of society.

I do believe that plasma in space has an ability to self organize into double layers, and therefore,
has an ability to DO WORK in the physics sense. And I believe this electromagnetic force of charge separation is fundamental
to the advent and development of LIFE as we know it on the earth. Therefore I predict that LIFE will be found
in a lot of places besides earth.

Many years ago I learned, from the writings of Buckminster Fuller, that
Viruses were on the cusp of our definitions of living and non living things.
Our separation of the two categories has been falsified by viruses. IMO

One may also propose a spectrum of consciousness in a similar fashion, from atoms and elements to slime molds and fungus,
and from plants, animals and people to a consciousness of the sun and of the universe itself (Rupert Sheldrake !!)

But from me, and for me, there is no place on this spectrum for Intelligent Design.
It is still not a thing to me, and I will not discuss it further, here or anywhere else.
Thanks for your interest in this topic Arcmode.
Jack

[jacmac]

Here is another paper and a quoted section:
You need to scroll down some to get the paper.
Quote is at the end of section 3.
https://www.academia.edu/10363675/Physi ... ma_physics

Physics and Biology: Bio-plasma physics
Mituo Uehara and Kumiko K. Sakane
Universidade do Vale do Paraı´ ba, Prac¸a Caˆ ndido Dias Castejo´ n, 26 apto 102, Sa
˜
o Jose´ dos Campos, SP,12245-720, Brazil
Homero S. Maciel
Instituto Tecnolo´ gico de Aerona´ utica, Sa
˜
o Jose´ dos Campos, SP, Brazil
Wilfredo I. Urruchi
Instituto Technolo´ gico de Aerona´ utica, Sa
˜
o Jose´ dos Campos, SP, Brazil and Universidade Braz Cubas, Mogi das Cruzes, SP, Brazil

Received 31 August 1998; accepted 20 May 1999


The purpose of this paper is to show that plasma physics can be useful in the investigation of the physical properties of living cells. Concepts like
charge neutrality, Debye length, and double layer are very useful to explain the electrical properties of a cellular membrane.

Plasma physicists have a long history of investigation concerning the physical properties of double layers, theoretically as well as experimentally.
1,8,15–17
Hannes Alfven in his lecture points out the analogy between double layers that occur in discharge physics and those that occur in membranes of living cells. He says:
1
‘‘Since the time of Langmuir, we know that a double layer is a plasma formation by which a plasma—in the physical meaning of the word—protects it-self from the environment. It is analogous to a cell wall by which a plasma—in the biological meaning of this word—protects itself from the environment.’’ It is amazing that, in spite of so many differences between a cell membrane and a plasma double layer, there are some fundamental similarities between the electrostatic properties of the two structures. These similarities result from the fact that a cell membrane separates two different bio-plasmas, which can be viewed as liquid plasmas.

Yes it is amazing.
But that leads to understanding when the proto double layer cell is present at the time of abiogenesis.
The proto living organism learns to provide the cell membranes with appropriate charged materials.
Then replication is possible.
I only refer to the cell membrane part of things.
There is certainly more to abiogenesis .....