The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

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Michael Mozina
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The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:16 pm

Lukraak_Sisser wrote:Of course Sol88's just asking questions is part of his years long refusal to answer how his theory would account for the fact that electrons and positive ions are known to move in the same direction, whereas in an electric universe they'd move in opposite directions.

Unless you got that sorted out by now Sol88?
I still occasionally follow some of the threads around the internet which tend to be hostile toward EU/PC concepts. I'm always amazed by the complete ignorance that drives the "skepticism" toward EU/PC theories, and this recent post at ISF caught is no exception. I've come to expect the EU/PC hardcore "regulars" at ISF just being completely ingnorant jack-asses, but it's simply astounding to me what comes out of the mouth of various second tier skeptics.

The absolute ignorance of this particular post is breathtaking IMO. Apparently any actual *reading* of EU/PC materials is out of the question for "skeptics", lest it destroy their entire argument. It's worth noting that Birkeland actually *predicted* (and physically demonstrated) that *both* types of charged particles would flow away from the sun, not *just* electrons. He also predicted that higher speed electrons ("strahl/cathode ray) electrons would flow away from the sun at a much higher velocity.. We do in fact *observe* high speed protons and ions flowing *into* the solar system which are euphemistically referred to as cosmic rays, and which are overwhelmingly positively charged, something on the order of 99 percent positively charged in fact.

I guess the common demoninator of all EU/PC skeptics is a complete lack of understanding of the scientific literature that exists on the topic, along with a complete lack of interest in educating themselves. It's so sad.

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Brigit
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Brigit » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:55 pm

Michael Mozina » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:16 am
quotes LS:
"Of course Sol88's just asking questions is part of his years long refusal to answer how his theory would account for the fact that electrons and positive ions are known to move in the same direction, whereas in an electric universe they'd move in opposite directions."


Michael, your point is that "It's worth noting that Birkeland actually *predicted* (and physically demonstrated) that *both* types of charged particles would flow away from the sun, not *just* electrons, etc," which of course everyone fully gets and takes on board.

Nevertheless, the Electric Universe model of the electric sun predicts that not only do positively charged ions flow away from the sun towards the heliopause, but that they accelerate away from the sun. The slight and extended electric field formed between the heliopause and the sun (as between two electrodes) is what accelerates the solar wind.

So indeed, the electrons and protons experience force in opposite directions in an electric field, which acts to accelerate the positive ions away, and which causes the electrons to drift towards the sun. This is a common, ordinary occurrence wherever electrodes are used in everyday industrial applications. Electrons and protons drift in opposite directions towards their respective electrodes, without neutralizing one another.

But it is not altogether a perfectly pure process; for example, you have to heat up the electrodes with a current to get the light to come on in a tube, so basically electrons are free everywhere in the gas tube, and eventually florescent lights fail because of various complications with that. But to address the quote, the overall distribution of positive particles is distinct closest to the anode.
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

Michael Mozina
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:10 pm

Double post
Last edited by Michael Mozina on Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Mozina
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:10 pm

Brigit wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:55 pm
Michael Mozina » Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:16 am
quotes LS:
"Of course Sol88's just asking questions is part of his years long refusal to answer how his theory would account for the fact that electrons and positive ions are known to move in the same direction, whereas in an electric universe they'd move in opposite directions."


Michael, your point is that "It's worth noting that Birkeland actually *predicted* (and physically demonstrated) that *both* types of charged particles would flow away from the sun, not *just* electrons, etc," which of course everyone fully gets and takes on board.
But that's just it, they *don't* "get" it, nor do they understand it. Worse yet, they *refuse* to even read about it for themselves. Instead they parrot each other over and over again, in a never ending parade of complete ignorance.
Typical ISF Dumbass wrote:I see your post was picked up on by one of the unqualified, Dunderdolts, Dunning-Kruger sufferers. Probably no need to name which particular one it was;
It's absolutely hilarious that that he mentioned "Dunning Kruger sufferers" while completely botching *everything* related to Birkeland's cathode solar model, while simultaneously peddling a cosmology model that is 95 percent "dark magic". Wow. Irony overload.

Here's the problem Bridget:
Of course, the ignorant poster only mentions Birkeland, who had no idea how the solar wind actually worked, back in the day.
Not only did he have an "idea" how it worked, he created a *working simulation* of the process, something the mainstream has *never* been able to accomplish with the concept that Alfven referred to as "pseudoscience" till the day he died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind
The idea that the ejected material consisted of both ions and electrons was first suggested by Norwegian scientist Kristian Birkeland.[8] His geomagnetic surveys showed that auroral activity was almost uninterrupted. As these displays and other geomagnetic activity were being produced by particles from the Sun, he concluded that the Earth was being continually bombarded by "rays of electric corpuscles emitted by the Sun".[6] He proposed in 1916 that, "From a physical point of view it is most probable that solar rays are neither exclusively negative nor positive rays, but of both kinds"; in other words, the solar wind consists of both negative electrons and positive ions.[9] Three years later, in 1919, British physicist Frederick Lindemann also suggested that the sun ejects particles of both polarities: protons as well as electrons.[10]
In short, it was Birkeland who *first* proposed that the sun emitted *both* ions and electrons toward the planets, which was something he *learned* as a result of laboratory experimentation. It wasn't simply a "guess" on his part because he found 'soot" on the sides of the walls of his experiments and realized it was part of his cathode being flung out from the sphere. You'd "think" a so called "professional" would bother to take the time to *learn* a bit about the topic he's choosing to 'debate' in cyberspace, but alas, all the "skeptics" of EU/PC theory debate from a place of utter ignorance. It's simply pathetic.
He fails to mention what LS was addressing in his post. Namely, that the electric idiots want a radial electric field emanating from the Sun.
I love how the "idiots" were the ones who came up with working simulations of aurora and full sphere coronas, while the so called "experts" have been completely inept in the lab to date. They're a full century behind and counting when it comes to tangible lab results.
Which will indeed send ions and electrons in opposite directions.
Here's their problem in a nutshell Bridget. They don't even bother to read Birkeland's work for themselves, they dont' understand it, and they *blatantly misrepresent it* in cyberspace to an unsuspecting audience.

The amusing part is that the ion and electrons *do* flow in opposite directions at the *highest velocities*, whereas the solar wind particles all travel away from the sun, mostly because the electrons are slamming into and pushing the ions away from the sun. Their charge also "pulls" on the ions.
And he then makes a dumb point about cosmic rays, which are nothing to do with the electric idiocy.
And here was the most ridiculously stupid comment of his entire post. *Of course* they have *everything* to do with Birkeland's model of a "positively" charged space that the sun interacts with. Doh! What a bonehead comment.
The only reason they get past the heliopause is due to their high energy.
They're also *drawn* to the surface, but indeed their *high velocity* and the low density of the ISM does allow them to pass into the solar system.
The loons of EU require a current of electrons heading in at half-rat power. Scientifically impossible, of course. They would be picked up by the magnetic field that moves outward with the solar wind, and taken right back to where they impossibly came from.
Pure and utter nonsense from a guy who hasn't spent even an hour reading Birkeland's material for themselves.
In this posters case, he thinks the Sun is a cathode! Lol. And that there is a current of ions coming in to power it. Which is impossible for the same reasons. The only charged particles getting in are very energetic ones, as well as energetic neutrals. So, what is the cosmic ray flux? Can that power the Sun? I think we all know the answer to that. And it would be rather obvious, not to mention likely fatal to life on Earth, if it were happening with the necessary flux. For obvious reasons. Tom Bridgman did a calculation some time ago on this;
The pathetic part is that neither of them read Birkeland's work for themselves because Birkeland didn't claim that the sun was *externally* powered in the first place, rather he surmised that it was powered by an internal "transmutation of elements". What a bunch of unprofessional dipshits.

It's amazing how ignorant they are, and how *willfully* ignorant they are. It took me a few weeks to slog through Birkeland's couple of volumes of work, but it only took a couple of light evenings of reading to understand his solar model. Only a completely irrational person continue to debate these topics based on willful ignorance, but alas, that's *exactly* what they do, and they parrot each other's ignorance and treat it as 'fact', just as the poster in question tried to use Bridgman's estimates on an *external* power source to attempt to 'debunk' Birkeland's *internally* powered cathode solar model. EU/PC "skeptics" aren't even real "skeptics" to begin with. They're all ignorant idiots, and ignorant *by choice* no less, while fancying themselves as 'experts" on these topics. Sheesh.

Harry
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Harry » Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:50 am

I have read your comments.
Info thanks

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Brigit
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Brigit » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:30 am

by Michael Mozina » Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:10 am
"&ct"

I see what you are saying in context. Thank you for that. That is abysmal, isn't it.

Alright, best case scenario: everyone gets a better education on Kristian Birkeland's observations of the aurora in Norway and his experiments, and the conversation gets continually grounded in empirical evidence and laboratory reproductions of auroras and full sphere coronas.

And also we get to see Michael Mozina once in a while after the fact.

Both are pretty good outcomes. (;
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

Harry
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Harry » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:48 am

Ignorance is part of general character.

Keep on keeping on
Question more
Learn more
Even when all tells you your wrong.
When you see chaos and than simplicity, you maybe on track.

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Brigit
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Brigit » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:53 pm

Michael Mozina says,
"Here's their problem in a nutshell Bridget. They don't even bother to read Birkeland's work for themselves, they dont' understand it, and they *blatantly misrepresent it* in cyberspace to an unsuspecting audience.

The amusing part is that the ion and electrons *do* flow in opposite directions at the *highest velocities*, whereas the solar wind particles all travel away from the sun, mostly because the electrons are slamming into and pushing the ions away from the sun. Their charge also "pulls" on the ions."


&

"the poster in question tried to use Bridgman's estimates on an *external* power source to attempt to 'debunk' Birkeland's *internally* powered cathode solar model. EU/PC "skeptics" aren't even real "skeptics" to begin with. They're all ignorant idiots, and ignorant *by choice* no less, while fancying themselves as 'experts" on these topics. Sheesh."

In the externally powered electric sun model, the overall drift of electrons is towards the sun, and the overall positive ion currents are from the anode tufts on the sun.

The anode sun does require electrons to leave the sun. One, because the electric sun is part of a circuit. It is likely at the poles of the sun where electrons are lost, and the circuit maintained.

Two, the electric sun model is also electrically connected to its satellite planets. Sunward electrons, in this model, not only come from the ISM through the entire heliosphere, but also from the planets. The sun's connections with its planets are also circuits; this means that electrons flow from the sun to the planets and from the planets to the sun. So it is expected in the model that electrons are flowing to the planets, away from the sun.

Electrons flowing toward an anode also cause further ionization, increasing the charged particles in the tube. Some of these are getting trapped in the striated layers around the anode, just as SAFIRE and others have shown in the lab.

In a way, this is totally off topic (: so I really should take it to another thread. This thread is about Birkeland's internally powered sun.
“Oh for shame, how these mortals put the blame upon us gods, for they say evils come from us, when it is they rather who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given…”
~Homer

Harry
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Harry » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:21 pm

Birkelands currents within the core and solar envelope of the Sun.

Can someone explain this please.

jacmac
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by jacmac » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:43 pm

Michael Mozina said
Birkeland didn't claim that the sun was *externally* powered in the first place, rather he surmised that it was powered by an internal "transmutation of elements".
Harry said
Birkelands currents within the core and solar envelope of the Sun.
It's getting kind of confusing.... To follow the discussion, much less, to explain anything ?
And what does "the solar envelope of the sun " even mean, Harry ?

Harry
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Re: The sheer ignornace of the mainstream is absolutely astounding.

Unread post by Harry » Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:30 am

The sun
Core
Outer core
Solar envelope from the outer core to the surface, although some may say the envelope is the total solar system that goes far far beyond Pluto.

What happens in each part may explain the long jeopardy. From this we may explain the filament currents.

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