Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
JoeB
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Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by JoeB » Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:45 pm

Looks like all the animals shrunk over the last 200 million years. The African elephant is the maximum size possible with today's gravity supposedly. Dinosaurs were many times larger. All of the ocean floor has been created over the last 200 million years as well. So the continents come together if you remove the ocean floor from newest to oldest. For example, if you remove the red and yellow, the green comes together, etc.
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Doesn't this show that the Earth has expanded? I'm new here but I did watch a video where Wal THornhill says that gravity can change electrically and that's why the dinosaurs died. But this looks like an open and shut case to me. I'm not an expert, but I have listened to both sides, and I think this makes a lot more sense as an alternative to the big bang. What do people think?
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danda
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by danda » Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:51 am

I, having read the book "Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth", as well as "History of Expanding Earth" and having watched just about expanding earth vid on Youtube.... would have to agree with you.

Also, the subquantum kinetics theory by Paul La Viollette predicts that all planets are growing and they eventually turn into brown dwarfs, suns. And that galaxies grow.

Halton Arp's work provides strong evidence that parent galaxies give birth to child galaxies.

I think a strong case can be made that the universe is "alive".

but anyway yeah, for me expanding earth is so much more compelling than plate tectonics.

I mean, just imagine a world with Pangea supercontinent and same size as today. You have all land mass in one place, and then nothing but water on the other side. The textbooks never show the "behind" view. Its silly.

I also find Maxlow's work/simulations with sea floor age elimination extremely compelling.

Another thing to think about.... generally 90% or more of volcanic "ash" is actually water vapor/steam. Which is why it's white-ish. That water is coming from somewhere. Couple this with all the recent discoveries of more water inside the earth than outside, and then think about the mid ocean ridges that are constantly spewing stuff out from inside for past 200 million years, and it seems apparent to me that the oceans have all come from inside the earth.

As to the cause? fun to speculate. Well the earth is constantly receiving energy from the Sun as Birkeland first pointed out. It doesn't seem so unlikely to me that there is new physics to be discovered that could demonstrate that with enough energy matter can be created directly from the all pervasive ether, probably by giving it a high enough resonance that new hydrogen atoms sort of pop into existence.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:18 pm

As to the cause? fun to speculate. Well the earth is constantly receiving energy from the Sun as Birkeland first pointed out. It doesn't seem so unlikely to me that there is new physics to be discovered that could demonstrate that with enough energy matter can be created directly from the all pervasive ether, probably by giving it a high enough resonance that new hydrogen atoms sort of pop into existence.
If you'd said hydrogen ions I'd agree, I'm not sure at all about the mechanism but I suspect protons are created in the core by incoming energy, at the same instant heavier and lighter [than iron] elements are created and whilst the temp. of the iron remains cool enough these are all 'stored' in the crystalline matrix. When some significant kinetic or electrical event causes the iron to melt then anything lighter than iron can migrate upwards and anything denser and with a lower specific heat capacity can melt and be squeezed out. Eventually you have an outer core of metals replete with 'stored' protons, a close encounter with a highly charged body or an actual impact woud be enough for those metals to break out into the 'mantle' and for a cascade of hydrogen reactions to begin with any elements they encounter. So expansion would begin, but beneath existing cratons breaking them and pushing them apart, in the exact opposite way to subduction, such that the central ocean ridges are at the oldest point of the cracks and the new lightweight minerals continue to draw denser ore bodies in their wake as they continue to emerge from beneath ancient cratons, littering the seafloor with iron-manganese globs as they go. Some subduction may occur but this is chiefly where competing pressures on oceanic plates force newly emerged seafloor straight back to where it came from.
Since so many signs of this catastrophic change remain, and there being so little sediment on so many areas of seabed, I could be persuaded that a drop of 3ooms are in order for the precipitate event and that a number of smaller derivative events have occured in the historical period.

danda
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by danda » Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:45 am

Nice insights John, it seems you've given this some thought.

I'll just throw out a couple more things pointed out by expanding earth researchers:

1. it appears from sea floor age analysis that expansion began about 200 million years ago. If we can believe those dates, as well as dating of the continents at about 4.7 billion years, then it seems that expansion is a very recent event. It's kind of intriguing to think about a) why the earth did not expand for so long initially and b) what was the trigger event that kicked it off? Or maybe there was always some kind of internal state change that only recently manifested in expansion. One theory I've heard is that initially there was a lot of internal water-ice, and internal radiation and/or energy from sun eventually melted it all into liquid and eventually into gas (steam) and it is the steam which is driving expansion, and also moving the center of gravity outward as we grow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCnPOi5qOU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iIWYYNkgJQ

2. expansion has been accelerating. faster and faster. so we are headed towards becoming a gas giant eventually. But I guess not a worry for humanity just yet.

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:23 am

johnm33 wrote: Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:18 pmI'm not sure at all about the mechanism but I suspect protons are created in the core by incoming energy,,,
You don't necessarily need any exotic mechanism, the Earth (along with and solar system objects) are constantly bombarded with protons direct from the sun. I wouldn't be surprised if more than enough make their way into the Earth to expand it over time.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:22 pm

The long term stability is why I think there has to have been a reservoir of 'reactive agent' It's sudden release means, to have any effect it must be extremely chemically active, to alter the gravitational pull at the surface suggests it must have been highly charged. Taken together it further suggests that there must be a charge field/double layer/electron shell somewhere between the iron core and the mantle and that in crossing this barrier, or shrinking it due to the extreme alteration of charge in the core 'matter' which previously took no part in surface gravity came into play. It may be that for the longest time there was a build up of both protons and heavy metals within the ionised iron core, which is probably a significant remnant of a stars active core and thus depleted of electrons, and the same initial event which began the expansion also led to the reorganisation of the iron crystaline form from hex to square, the release of all the contained heavy metals and the consequent formation of the outer liquid core. If the 'mass' of the outer core could be estimated we may find it's in the ball park of the 'extra' mass needed for the gravity change.

danda
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by danda » Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:00 am

I'm not convinced about the whole "iron core" thing. I just haven't studied it enough to make up my mind, or even favor one theory over another. But what I do know is that normally when "mainstream science" is saying one thing, and then I (and like-minded skeptics/heretics) look into the details, it's all based on something extremely shaky and usually wrong. Usually some really sketchy stuff happened 100 years ago or so, and everyone has been taught something wrong ever since. my motto is: question everything.

Be that as it may, Peter Woodhead in above videos makes an interesting point that it would not be necessary to have an increase in mass in order to feel a gravitational increase and a physical increase in size. It only requires a redistribution of mass eg from the center towards the crust. Gravity is normally modeled using a solid sphere, but what happens if the sphere is hollow or composed of materials of very different densities? Woodhead explores all that with some math, etc. I dunno if he's right, but its food for thought.

I actually think both may be occurring. Additional mass via incoming energy/protons from sun as well as a redistribution or phase change of existing material.

There is also a large amount of space dust that the planet encounters each day and accretes. In "Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth" the author makes the case that this alone might be enough to cause the expansion we see. Though it doesn't seem to explain how/why the earth could have existed so long without significant expansion, nor how the oceans were created.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:50 am

'Iron core thing' My opinion is that accretion is laughable, though I was happy enough with it for a long time since it's the established view. I think planets, and moons, are discharged from stars when they encounter a change of sufficient magnitude such as being captured by a larger star, or switching orbital slots, so I'm thinking the iron core is formed in some way as described by Charles Chandler in his model of the sun. I also suspect that the earth may be considerably younger than present mainstream models dictate.

Ignisavis
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Ignisavis » Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:06 pm

Just my snippet, but there’s an interesting book called ‘too big to walk’, although I temporarily forget the authors name. An interesting read on the likely physical attributes and habit of dinosaurs which conflicts with the standard model and also highlights many misdemeanours of the archeological and paleontological communities regarding such matters throughout more recent history.

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:12 pm

The sun sheds so much mass that in 200 million years you only need 0.00002% of those protons to make a whole new Earth. There is more than enough matter to expand the Earth through sheer bombardment than any other unknown or implausible theory.

danda
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by danda » Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:30 pm

Ignisavis wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:06 pm an interesting book called ‘too big to walk’
I haven't read that book, but yeah I actually encountered that idea in a 5th grade science textbook in the 1980's and have remembered it ever since as it seems an important clue. I haven't read recent grammar school textbooks, but my cynical guess is they've taken out the "too big to walk/run" stuff now.

anyhow, I will share a funny idea I think about sometimes, tying together three strands:

1) It's become pretty "common knowledge" that modern birds are descended from dinosaurs (which probably had feathers), and I've seen it reported that chickens are most likely descended from T-Rex through some long evolutionary pathway.

2) I've encountered various evidences that life adapts quickly to its environment. For example, seeds grown in space result in radically different plants than on earth. Also there is the whole terrain-theory / pleomorphic theory which indicates that microorganisms take on different forms according to the "mileau" or terrain they are in. John Ott did all kinds of experiments with plants and animals and got them to grow and behave in very different ways, just based on light frequencies. etc, etc. Or even just growing plants in a greenhouse vs outside one sees big differences.

3) I never was fully convinced about evolution, and these days have rejected it almost entirely in favor of environment adaptation... both of individual organism and generational.

Ok, then, so my funny thought is: what if dinosaurs never went extinct at all? They simply adapted to their changing gravitational and atmospheric environment. They shrunk. What if one were to take a modern chicken egg and somehow place it in the environmental conditions that existed in the dinosaur's time: 1/2 the gravity, altered atmosphere (perhaps earth is a moon of Saturn, with perpetual light and moisture), different soil microganisms and nutrients, and so on. Perhaps that "chick" would grow much faster and larger, and even take on a form that is more favorable to those conditions.

And if that is true..... then I routinely hear dinosaurs sqawking outside and eat their eggs for breakfast. Also, many many other foods "taste like dinosaur". ;-)

And the corollary... perhaps one day the scientists figure out how to clone a dinosaur.... they raise it up, and get.... an ostrich or a turkey or an emu or dodo. whoops! not exactly jurassic park.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:18 pm

Aardwolf wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:12 pm The sun sheds so much mass that in 200 million years you only need 0.00002% of those protons to make a whole new Earth. There is more than enough matter to expand the Earth through sheer bombardment than any other unknown or implausible theory.
I was previously persuaded that the protons cannot penetrate, and looking at the more recent splitting and expansion certainly makes it seem that it's not a gradual process, even the new oceanic crust apears to be created periodically. Plus although there are sedimentary deposits of @ 20km below both the east siberian shelf and the bay of bengal much of the ocean has none.
Worth reading https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2013/06 ... 4-gravity/ and following the links.

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:32 am

johnm33 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:18 pmI was previously persuaded that the protons cannot penetrate...
Did this persuasion explain what happens to the hundreds of tons of matter penetrating the magnetosphere every second and heading towards the poles at 500 km/s to within a 100 km of the Earths surface to create the Auroras? Where does it then suddenly all go?

danda
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by danda » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:40 am

Aardwolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:32 am Did this persuasion explain what happens to the hundreds of tons of matter penetrating the magnetosphere every second and heading towards the poles at 500 km/s to within a 100 km of the Earths surface to create the Auroras? Where does it then suddenly all go?
Nice, this is the first time I've seen numbers attached to this, and your question where does it go, sparked a connection.

Ok, so probably most of us have heard hollow earth theories/tales, such as that of Admiral Byrd's adventures at the South Pole, UFOs flying in and out of the earth at the poles, etc. Also, there is the curious fact that civilians are not allowed to visit the poles even now, or even fly directly over them. One would think that by now it would be a popular thing, like climbing Mt Everest.

Personally I remain agnostic on the hollow earth stuff. Fun to think about, but I don't have enough evidence either way, and it may be one of those "one step too far" things.

But for a moment, let's posit that some variant of hollow earth is correct and there actually are openings at the poles. This then could allow all these protons from the Sun to enter unimpeded. problem solved?

Well, probably not because now we have to ask, if the earth is literally hollow, then why would adding new matter inside cause it to expand? Presumably the hollow interior would be filled with a gas of some type, and the openings would allow the gas to escape. also if there is a lot of gas escaping, shouldn't there be evidence of that? In order to blow up a balloon, one needs some kind of one-way valve mechanism. What could that mechanism be in this scenario?

so yeah... it doesn't seem likely. I'm kinda just having fun and sharing wild ideas.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:22 am

Aardwolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:32 am
johnm33 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:18 pmI was previously persuaded that the protons cannot penetrate...
Did this persuasion explain what happens to the hundreds of tons of matter penetrating the magnetosphere every second and heading towards the poles at 500 km/s to within a 100 km of the Earths surface to create the Auroras? Where does it then suddenly all go?
To be fair the question I posed was whether the incoming protons could reach the core, since I'm more or less convinced the expansion originates from chemical reactions around it, that said your answer makes me wonder if the mud 'boiling with hydrogen' that was found in the Kola hole, and all the hydrogen seeps across Russia have a more 'local' explanation - rather than rising from the core. Then you have to wonder if the incoming protons scavenged carbon atoms present to create the massive methane deposits, or even oxygen from oxygen rich minerals to create water and transform those same minerals?

danda
also if there is a lot of gas escaping, shouldn't there be evidence of that?
Volcanoes? I suspect rather than molten boiling rock the magma is a series of muds, gels and saturated solutions that also contain insoluble particulates, like the liquid 'granite' in the Kola hole, and that some of these react with new hydrogen rich fluids that seep up from deep below H4Si for instance and that these result in the creation of water and SiO2 which 'outgas' in eruptions.

This paper http://www.magniel.com/jse/B/vol0201B/vg040720.pdf looks at hydrogen reactions in the Earth, for my part you can forget the 'primordial' if the gravity was lower and the hydrogen diffuse then how come it was captured then but can escape now, also imagine playing pool on a footballfield sized table where your average shot was at 40kmps how long would it take for all the balls to be travelling in the same direction, clumped together at 220kmps?

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