Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:41 pm

danda wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:40 am
Aardwolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:32 am Did this persuasion explain what happens to the hundreds of tons of matter penetrating the magnetosphere every second and heading towards the poles at 500 km/s to within a 100 km of the Earths surface to create the Auroras? Where does it then suddenly all go?
Nice, this is the first time I've seen numbers attached to this, and your question where does it go, sparked a connection.

Ok, so probably most of us have heard hollow earth theories/tales, such as that of Admiral Byrd's adventures at the South Pole, UFOs flying in and out of the earth at the poles, etc. Also, there is the curious fact that civilians are not allowed to visit the poles even now, or even fly directly over them. One would think that by now it would be a popular thing, like climbing Mt Everest.

Personally I remain agnostic on the hollow earth stuff. Fun to think about, but I don't have enough evidence either way, and it may be one of those "one step too far" things.

But for a moment, let's posit that some variant of hollow earth is correct and there actually are openings at the poles. This then could allow all these protons from the Sun to enter unimpeded. problem solved?

Well, probably not because now we have to ask, if the earth is literally hollow, then why would adding new matter inside cause it to expand? Presumably the hollow interior would be filled with a gas of some type, and the openings would allow the gas to escape. also if there is a lot of gas escaping, shouldn't there be evidence of that? In order to blow up a balloon, one needs some kind of one-way valve mechanism. What could that mechanism be in this scenario?

so yeah... it doesn't seem likely. I'm kinda just having fun and sharing wild ideas.
Why does the Earth need to be hollow? The added matter is the cause of the expansion which why you get earthquakes, volcanoes, rifts etc. which forces the Earth to expand/grow. See the article below which noted a correlation between earthquakes and mass corona emissions. It makes sense that during one of these events vastly more agitated material hits the Earth, and causes a more abrupt internal expansion resulting in a quake.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sc ... arthquakes

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:41 pm

johnm33 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:22 am
Aardwolf wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:32 am
johnm33 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 4:18 pmI was previously persuaded that the protons cannot penetrate...
Did this persuasion explain what happens to the hundreds of tons of matter penetrating the magnetosphere every second and heading towards the poles at 500 km/s to within a 100 km of the Earths surface to create the Auroras? Where does it then suddenly all go?
To be fair the question I posed was whether the incoming protons could reach the core, since I'm more or less convinced the expansion originates from chemical reactions around it, that said your answer makes me wonder if the mud 'boiling with hydrogen' that was found in the Kola hole, and all the hydrogen seeps across Russia have a more 'local' explanation - rather than rising from the core. Then you have to wonder if the incoming protons scavenged carbon atoms present to create the massive methane deposits, or even oxygen from oxygen rich minerals to create water and transform those same minerals?

danda
also if there is a lot of gas escaping, shouldn't there be evidence of that?
Volcanoes? I suspect rather than molten boiling rock the magma is a series of muds, gels and saturated solutions that also contain insoluble particulates, like the liquid 'granite' in the Kola hole, and that some of these react with new hydrogen rich fluids that seep up from deep below H4Si for instance and that these result in the creation of water and SiO2 which 'outgas' in eruptions.

This paper http://www.magniel.com/jse/B/vol0201B/vg040720.pdf looks at hydrogen reactions in the Earth, for my part you can forget the 'primordial' if the gravity was lower and the hydrogen diffuse then how come it was captured then but can escape now, also imagine playing pool on a footballfield sized table where your average shot was at 40kmps how long would it take for all the balls to be travelling in the same direction, clumped together at 220kmps?
My understanding is that these protons are atoms with no electron shell as they refer to them as positive. If they had any electrons they would be neutral and just called hydrogen. Hydrogen (or any element) is 99.999999% empty space so a proton alone is vastly smaller than an actual atom of any description. Travelling at 500 km/s why would the atmosphere/crust/rock etc. get in the way of this particle? Potentially it will collide at some point but it could easily get to or near the core.

Further, the protons that are stopped in the crust will quicky absorb an electron to produce phenomena like the "surprising" hydrogen in Kola you mentioned above, however, the deeper protons toward the center will be under immense physical pressure as well as electrical pressure, which is where I believe they join other free protons to form denser elements. it is here in the Earth where elements are formed not by distant supernova, which for me makes more sense as to why elements are found in clumps and not explosively dispersed. It makes no sense that as the Earth formed, all the various elements somehow attracted to each other first before accreting as a whole. It also explains why oil fields refill and where all the water comes from. The Earth is just a factory capable of producing it all.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:31 pm

I see protons and H+ ions as the same thing, I do begin to wonder if 'particles' only exist in a sufficiently strong magnetic field, almost as a defence mechanism, the 'electron' being of opposite charge creating the smallest functioning double layer.
What mechanism could keep the low gravity environment suitable for Dinosaurs for such long periods? I'm not convinced that they died out 65m years ago, and comfortably accomodate something 3 orders of manitude less, consequently I could consider a much shorter duration for their evolution and dominance. But it would still represent a long time of stability.
Rather than, but maybe also, elemental creation I presently prefer the idea of proton storage in the core but more importantly within the matrix of other 'ore bodies' and a sudden shock catalysing their release, a cascade of hydrogen chemistry expanding, and dissolving, in situe mineral deposits, one consequence of which was those ore bodies 'hitching' a ride to the surface in the liquids generated, and adding H,H2,H3 or H4 to almost any element makes it liquid if not supercritical at the temps. pressures near the core, if not before then once the reactions begin.
I'm still not convinced there's no biological agent in creating oil but I've come to suspect it may be some type of extremeophile acting on rising compounds containing Hydrogen and Carbon, parallel to this I suspect limestones and chalks are generally extrusions and the skeletal remains within them being those of other types of extremeophiles which processed and exuded calcium minerals, and since like granite they are so porous I suspect water was a by-product and that flint gels 'soaked' up waste silicon.

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:12 pm

johnm33 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:31 pmWhat mechanism could keep the low gravity environment suitable for Dinosaurs for such long periods?
No mechanism is required. The earth was just smaller (about the size of the Moon) and had 1/6 of the gravity hence they could easily live in that environment at that size.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:00 pm

Aardwolf wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:12 pm
johnm33 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:31 pmWhat mechanism could keep the low gravity environment suitable for Dinosaurs for such long periods?
No mechanism is required. The earth was just smaller (about the size of the Moon) and had 1/6 of the gravity hence they could easily live in that environment at that size.
So why no proton bombardment and consequent expansion, core too cool? no proton feed? closer orbit and greater electrohydrodynamic pressure?
Or what changed?

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:03 pm

johnm33 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:00 pm
Aardwolf wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:12 pm
johnm33 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:31 pmWhat mechanism could keep the low gravity environment suitable for Dinosaurs for such long periods?
No mechanism is required. The earth was just smaller (about the size of the Moon) and had 1/6 of the gravity hence they could easily live in that environment at that size.
So why no proton bombardment and consequent expansion, core too cool? no proton feed? closer orbit and greater electrohydrodynamic pressure?
Or what changed?
I'm not sure I follow your point. The Earth is expanding now, has been expanding historically and will continue to expand in the future. Why/when did you think it stopped expanding?

jackokie
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by jackokie » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:11 pm

If Wal Thornhill's theory of gravity is correct, it is a function of electric charge. The Earth and other planets are constantly bathed in electric charges. There is strong evidence that in the past violent electrical events affected the Earth. So it seems to me that rather than an expanding Earth, some process that increases the electrical charge in electrons and protons can account for the increased gravity since the time of the huge creatures.
Time is what prevents everything from happening all at once.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:54 pm

it is a function of electric charge

I suspect it's something to do with the tension between the ionosphere and the altered distribution of protons near the core, so in some way due to the voltage gradient to earth that increases as you rise through the atmosphere, I guess a test would be to earth out a suspended copper ring/web large enough to act as an umbrella to the force and see if there was a loss of weight in it's 'shade'.
I disagree about expansion though, I've gone from thinking it a ridiculous idea to accepting it as the simplest explanation for many otherwise difficult to explain geological artifacts. Trouble is that on balance I think it a very recent phenomenon, maybe all happening in 'bursts' in the last 60-80,000 or so years, plus I doubt it's over.

Aardwolf
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Aardwolf » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:31 pm

jackokie wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:11 pm If Wal Thornhill's theory of gravity is correct, it is a function of electric charge. The Earth and other planets are constantly bathed in electric charges. There is strong evidence that in the past violent electrical events affected the Earth. So it seems to me that rather than an expanding Earth, some process that increases the electrical charge in electrons and protons can account for the increased gravity since the time of the huge creatures.
You can increase the charge by increasing the capacity for charge, so the simplest way to increase charge is to increase the size of the Earth. It's the reason why all smaller satellites appear to have lower densities. They don't, they have lower charge which would negate the need to say they are all made out of water, when everybody knows they are clearly not.

Distance form the sun is also a factor but we would need to have started out so far away it would have been too cold for any life.

Open Mind
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Open Mind » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:07 pm

johnm33 wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:54 pm
it is a function of electric charge

I suspect it's something to do with the tension between the ionosphere and the altered distribution of protons near the core, so in some way due to the voltage gradient to earth that increases as you rise through the atmosphere, I guess a test would be to earth out a suspended copper ring/web large enough to act as an umbrella to the force and see if there was a loss of weight in it's 'shade'.
I disagree about expansion though, I've gone from thinking it a ridiculous idea to accepting it as the simplest explanation for many otherwise difficult to explain geological artifacts. Trouble is that on balance I think it a very recent phenomenon, maybe all happening in 'bursts' in the last 60-80,000 or so years, plus I doubt it's over.
I have a hard time not thinking this as well. Just since our most recent big cataclysm, the Younger Dryas, it seems there are so many examples of animals that DID survive, but in a smaller version of themselves. That seems too recent to presume its a very slow process that happens over millions of years, and just by coincidence, we just recently has a big leap, so recently timed.

I do consider the possibility that animal scale might have a considerable lag, and oversized animals can continue to exist in a less optimized gravitational environment. I think about this as one reason for the consideration of the "Blitzkreig" theory of overkill of the mammoths. If they're the largest animals at the time of a gravitational change, then it seems they'll slow down, become less effective at self defense, and along with the shrinking of their plant food, will become noticeably more vulnerable to predation. I've never bothered to research the Blitzkreig theory, because its always been suggested it was simply a poor theory, that has no legs, but just in case it does have 'some' corroborating evidence to substantiate it, then a gravitational change would explain it partially at least because the size remains after the change, but the animal suffers as a less optimized scale for the present gravity.

But if this discussion raises a mechanism of an instantaneous adaptation down to the fundamental DNA change, then it wouldn't make sense that kind of change wouldn't be instantaneous, driven by that gravity change, so I don't know what makes more sense. But WITH a lag, it would substantiate all the ancient myths of 'giants'. Maybe a lag is possible, but its so short in geological time spans, its still very quick, but long enough to influence impactfully in the historical experience of man.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:17 pm

because the size remains after the change
It may be that there's a reactive element that adapts to increased gravity.
In humans you can go from todays average of around 180cm, after a single experience of starvation in the womb to that particular female foetus producing eggs that won't get you much past 140-150cm and that effect lasts generations even if future daughters are privilidged with excess whilst pregnant. It's unlikely to be just a human trait. Think of the dwarf mammoths stranded on islands.

Open Mind
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Open Mind » Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:16 am

johnm33 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:17 pm
after a single experience of starvation in the womb to that particular female foetus producing eggs that won't get you much past 140-150cm and that effect lasts generations even if future daughters are privilidged with excess whilst pregnant.



I can't find anything on that online. Do you have a link about that?

Cargo
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by Cargo » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:00 am

I recall the experiment whereby with the correct electric field, both Ferns and some Fish can be made to reproduce as they were a 'millennial' ago. Basically a reset of this DNA to how it was in another Age. .. All Life is a Product of it's Environment. This happens at every scale from Galaxies to Animals.
To me it does seem completely obvious that Dinosaurs, and many other previous life ages on our planet, were present in a vastly different world. Even the surface light was a different wave length.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
"You know not what. .. Perhaps you no longer trust your feelings,." Michael Clarage
"Charge separation prevents the collapse of stars." Wal Thornhill

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:40 am

Open Mind wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:16 am
johnm33 wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:17 pm
after a single experience of starvation in the womb to that particular female foetus producing eggs that won't get you much past 140-150cm and that effect lasts generations even if future daughters are privilidged with excess whilst pregnant.



I can't find anything on that online. Do you have a link about that?
No but it was a Finnish study, [by and of] maybe 20 years since I read it, there was a famine, I guess back around the mini ice age, and some families are still shorter than their ancestors.

johnm33
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Re: Dinsaurs - Expanding Earth

Unread post by johnm33 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:47 am

Cargo wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:00 am I recall the experiment whereby with the correct electric field, both Ferns and some Fish can be made to reproduce as they were a 'millennial' ago. Basically a reset of this DNA to how it was in another Age. .. All Life is a Product of it's Environment. This happens at every scale from Galaxies to Animals.
To me it does seem completely obvious that Dinosaurs, and many other previous life ages on our planet, were present in a vastly different world. Even the surface light was a different wave length.
Tim Cullen of Malagabay has some posts on this https://malagabay.wordpress.com/2013/11 ... 4-edition/

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