Expanding earth has a real mechanism now (not growing Earth)

[JeffreyW]

Earth expanded ~1.4 times after it exited ocean world stages of evolution, due to the thick atmosphere being released which was crushing it as it was forming.

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rttLKlhKI4w

I am so happy to have an actual mechanism for Earth expansion (not growing Earth). Now I have to read over 100 years of literature concerning this subject, as expanding (not growing) Earth was hypothesized by hundreds of scientists from the 1800's to today. Of course it was ignored because of there not being an understandable, physical mechanism for expansion. Now that there is, we can get rid of plate tectonics once and for all.

[paladin17]

What atmospheric pressures are we talking about then? And more importantly: if the mass of the crust and the things below it did not increase, then what would have held this previously thicker atmosphere in the first place?

[JeffreyW]

What atmospheric pressures are we talking about then? And more importantly: if the mass of the crust and the things below it did not increase, then what would have held this previously thicker atmosphere in the first place?

The atmospheric pressure of Earth when it was forming was in excess of 300 Gigapascal. When Earth was in red dwarf stages of evolution the interior core that was forming was under many terapascal.

Gravitation. When Earth was much younger its gravity was vastly greater, because it was a much more massive star.

So it is not that the expanding Earth created mass out of nothing internally, it is that the mass of the Earth has decreased exponentially as it evolved. The loss of Earth's primitive atmosphere is what caused the interior to expand outwards.

So put simply, when physical matter is collected together under extreme pressure, they are compacted. When the pressure that formed the material is released, that physical matter expands to adjust.

I have been reading the literature concerning expanding Earth, and they all sort of point towards the Earth expanding due to some interior process, they neglect the realization that the observations required to postulate Earth's past are in our own solar system. The younger Earths are Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus and the Sun.

[paladin17]

The atmospheric pressure of Earth when it was forming was in excess of 300 Gigapascal. When Earth was in red dwarf stages of evolution the interior core that was forming was under many terapascal.

Any evidence of that? Do we ubiquitously find materials on the surface (or at shallow depths) that would be formed under such pressures? Doesn't seem to be the case, as far as I know.

So it is not that the expanding Earth created mass out of nothing internally, it is that the mass of the Earth has decreased exponentially as it evolved. The loss of Earth's primitive atmosphere is what caused the interior to expand outwards.

You seem to miss my point. The point was: if the mass of the Earth below our feet is constant (which, as I understand, you agree with) - I mean, before and after the expansion it remained the same, - then what attracted this extra atmosphere before the expansion? Why is the same mass today not enough to keep it in place anymore, whereas previously it somehow was enough?

[JeffreyW]

The atmospheric pressure of Earth when it was forming was in excess of 300 Gigapascal. When Earth was in red dwarf stages of evolution the interior core that was forming was under many terapascal.

Any evidence of that? Do we ubiquitously find materials on the surface (or at shallow depths) that would be formed under such pressures? Doesn't seem to be the case, as far as I know.

There are hundreds of cases. In fact, the evolving star Uranus has similar pressures right now, to be forming three different phases of an alumina silicate, called sillimanite, andalusite, and kyanite. Depending on the depth and pressures will determine which one formed when and under what temps/pressures.
https://vixra.org/pdf/1906.0259v1.pdf
Just finding kyanite on the surface of the Earth means quite literally the area it was found in was at least 2,000 Earth atmospheres, and that is early stage ocean world, that's not even including the earlier stages of stellar evolution where the pressures were too high for rocks to even form in.

Rocks and minerals are direct observational evidence of Earth having had a vastly higher pressure and temperature atmosphere.

Not only that, but the general theory predicts that the phases of minerals were also different due to extreme pressures, beyond even kyanite. Not even diamond anvil cells can mimic the conditions the surface of the Earth had experienced.

[JeffreyW]

Here is a good video of someone finding nice kyanite crystals right on the surface. No way that material formed in 1 bar atmospheric pressure. Right where he is digging had to have been at least 2,000 bar, far beyond what Earth's atmosphere is now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4LvX-wtiLY

OH and here is the other video that explains what all the solar system objects are, and where mainstream science went wrong. I've been trying to tell EU people this for about a decade now, so far nothing on their youtube channel that mentions this discovery and nothing in writing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI5sl0CYhRU

[JP Michael]

No way that material formed in 1 bar atmospheric pressure. Right where he is digging had to have been at least 2,000 bar, far beyond what Earth's atmosphere is now.

But can kyanite form in a localised area under localised extreme pressure? I find the generalisation rather unwarranted if local, rather than global, conditions can account for such.

[JeffreyW]

No way that material formed in 1 bar atmospheric pressure. Right where he is digging had to have been at least 2,000 bar, far beyond what Earth's atmosphere is now.

But can kyanite form in a localised area under localised extreme pressure? I find the generalisation rather unwarranted if local, rather than global, conditions can account for such.

It is found around the world. https://www.mindat.org/min-2303.html It is global.

[JP Michael]

It is found around the world. https://www.mindat.org/min-2303.html It is global.

So is basalt. Was the whole world therefore one volcano?

Just because a mineral has global distribution does not mean its cause was not from local, rather than global, factors. Thus, just because kyanite has global distribution (in localised deposits), it does not mean that it was caused by global higher pressure. It could very well have been caused by localised regions of extreme pressure (e.g. via Andy Hall's sonic shockwave hypothesis) during global cataclysm. A global catacylsm does not necessarily affect localised regions the same way. Inland Australia was affected differently to the coast; Nevada and the Rockies different to the Prairies or the Great Lakes districts, etc. One never finds a 50x50 or 1000x1000 sq.mi. patch of kyanite, do they, which would be evidence your theory requires as proof? I think it's much more complicated than a simply higher pressure atmosphere in the past.

[Cargo]

Any evidence of that? Do we ubiquitously find materials on the surface (or at shallow depths) that would be formed under such pressures? Doesn't seem to be the case, as far as I know.

How many holes have you digged and to what depth? The 'surface' of the Earth as we know it, is a relatively short crusty depth like a healing scab on a hikers knee. If you think about it that way.

I can only laugh when someones mentions a spinning iron ball at the center. And I can't begin to predict the past, but if super-massive-blackholes are real, then why not extreme gravity/electric pressures?

[JeffreyW]

It is found around the world. https://www.mindat.org/min-2303.html It is global.

So is basalt. Was the whole world therefore one volcano?

Just because a mineral has global distribution does not mean its cause was not from local, rather than global, factors. Thus, just because kyanite has global distribution (in localised deposits), it does not mean that it was caused by global higher pressure. It could very well have been caused by localised regions of extreme pressure (e.g. via Andy Hall's sonic shockwave hypothesis) during global cataclysm. A global catacylsm does not necessarily affect localised regions the same way. Inland Australia was affected differently to the coast; Nevada and the Rockies different to the Prairies or the Great Lakes districts, etc. One never finds a 50x50 or 1000x1000 sq.mi. patch of kyanite, do they, which would be evidence your theory requires as proof? I think it's much more complicated than a simply higher pressure atmosphere in the past.

Rocks and minerals are global, because they have global conditions. Kyanite is just one out of thousands of minerals that needed extreme pressures to form.

One would be hard pressed to state that rocks are not global.

One volcano? Well, Earth's interior when it was forming was under extreme pressures and temperatures. These pressures and temperatures are in real time existent in various stars in all stages of evolution, including the Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus.

[JeffreyW]

Any evidence of that? Do we ubiquitously find materials on the surface (or at shallow depths) that would be formed under such pressures? Doesn't seem to be the case, as far as I know.

How many holes have you digged and to what depth? The 'surface' of the Earth as we know it, is a relatively short crusty depth like a healing scab on a hikers knee. If you think about it that way.

I can only laugh when someones mentions a spinning iron ball at the center. And I can't begin to predict the past, but if super-massive-blackholes are real, then why not extreme gravity/electric pressures?

In the general theory the past is predicted. We even see objects that resembled Earth when it was very young, they are inside of the solar system as well are scattered across billions of galaxies. I don't know if you've seen this but I've been trying to teach EU people what the Earth is.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM0Hi0YwAJA

[JP Michael]

Kyanite is just one out of thousands of minerals that needed extreme pressures to form.

You seemed to have missed my criticism. On what basis do you argue that the formation of kyanite, or any other high-pressure mineral, requires global pressures exceeding 2,000 Atmospheres, as opposed to, say, local extreme pressures causing local formations of the mineral(s), as easily explained by hypotheses such as Andy Hall's sonic wind shockwave dynamics, during past interplanetary cataclysmic epochs?

The point is if 2,000 Atmospheres was a once-global pressure, and remained such for an interdeterminate period (how many millions of years are you suggesting?), why doesn't the majority of the crust of the earth for that epoch of time consist of high-pressure minerals? I think even a non-geologist like me realises that the majority crust consists of sedimentary layers, basalt, diabase, gabbro and granite, none of which are particularly high pressure minerals. How do you account for high-pressure minerals being found in select pockets, here and there, albeit with global distribution, rather than a blanket global coverage as should be expected if the entire globe was once subject to 2,000 Atmospheres?

This suggests to me that hypersonic shockwave downbursts cauterising select locations, or perhaps extreme-pressure teleuric current in the crust during cataclysmic epochs of the past, seem more plausible hypotheses for high-pressure mineral formation than the idea that the entire globe was once subject to such extreme pressure.