The Dark Moon

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
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GaryN
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:23 pm

Even a dash cam can see some stars:
https://youtu.be/4rH1_HnAcGU?list=TLPQM ... 81sQ&t=452

What about the Tesla Roadster Spaceman cameras?
https://youtu.be/aBr2kKAHN6M?t=6553
https://youtu.be/aBr2kKAHN6M?t=5729
Pretty strange stars.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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GaryN
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:17 pm

This is interesting:
NOAA explains restriction on SpaceX launch webcast
https://spacenews.com/noaa-explains-res ... h-webcast/
SILVER SPRING, Md. — A cutoff of live video on a recent SpaceX launch reflects new awareness by regulators of the imaging capabilities of onboard cameras on launch vehicles and requirements for companies to adhere to laws that some in the industry believe are outdated.
...
For now, NOAA does not have the ability to waive the need for a license, including for upper stages with onboard cameras. “The law doesn’t provide for a waiver,” said Glenn Tallia, NOAA general counsel, at the meeting. “Any system that is basically a private remote sensing space system requires a license.”
So to use a camera in space requires a license, as it may show something that they don't want you to see for national security reasons. I say what they don't want you to see is not on Earth but in space, particularly when looking away from the Earth. The camera feed on the ISS and Dragon are controlled by NASA to ensure that any peculiar views of space that would raise awkward questions are not broadcast.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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GaryN
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:53 pm

The longest partial eclipse of the Moon in hundreds of years and for centuries to come occurred recently and there are lots of photos taken from Earth of the red looking moon, but of course none from space. If I were to be standing on the Moon at the time would everything look reddish? No active cameras on the near side just now, but what about the view from the ISS? I looked here
https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/SearchPhotos/S ... SS_Imagery
but no moon photos, and it seems like the ISS crew must not work weekends or have had no interest in this rare event. The change log shows:
November 22, 2021: Added images for 199 photos: STS067-728A-1 through STS067-728A-101 total 101, STS067-729-1 through STS067-729-98 total 98.
November 18, 2021: Added images for 1 photos: ISS066-E-78326 through ISS066-E-78326.
So we have no proof that the Moon actually looks red from space.
Here is a nice photo of stars though from the ISS:
https://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/DatabaseImages ... -61400.JPG
1 second at ISO 10,000 with a Nikon D5. Lets try that looking away from Earth. When stars are visible from some low light TV cameras, or dashcams, they are always just above the horizon, indicating that it is the atmosphere that must be involved, just as it is from the ISS. There is an increase in intensity of visible wavelengths.

I heard Elon Musk on an interview the other day and he mentioned he was intending to take the lens assembly from a cancelled NASA orbital telescope mission on one of his upcoming launches. That should be interesting. Wonder if it will use a Nikon D5 to take photos through that lens? And will he be allowed to look away from Earth??
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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GaryN
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Dark Mars?

Unread post by GaryN » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:46 pm

Solar Irradiance Sensor on the ExoMars 2016 Lander
https://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org ... 15-850.pdf

I can find no results for this experiment, which obviously makes me suspicious. So I wonder what might happen if they ever sent the same instrument to the Moon? They never will, as the measured values would be nothing like the theoretical values, which is probably why the Mars results are not available,
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:01 am

Oh, I see what happened. The 2016 lander crashed, but the same instrument is to be deployed on the lander supposed to fly in 2022. Can't wait to see if it crashes too, or maybe the instrument doesn't function for some reason. Or maybe they'll disprove my whole theory?
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Fri May 27, 2022 6:50 pm

Artemis Lighting Considerations Overview Technical Brief
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/file ... _ochmo.pdf

They talk about Lux but give no theoretical or measured values.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:04 am

BepiColombo’s first views of Mercury
The monitoring cameras provide black-and-white snapshots in 1024 x 1024 pixel resolution...
https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration ... of_Mercury
Infrared capable camera again but they don't tell us that anywhere. Darker than the moon in the visible as it gets no Earthshine.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:50 pm

BepiColombo will be interesting when it finally captures color images. The first months of the mapping mission is apparently only panchromatic, then later they capture data from the color channels. There are at least 3 color cameras on board, one with relatively normal RGB range filters 420, 550, 750nm, one with slightly moved wavelengths into IR with 550, 750, 850 nm and one line array camera of 400 - 2000nm with 6.25nm for each of the 256 channels, that's an imaging spectrometer: https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 20-00704-8

Imaging spectrometers are awesome, if they work fine without too much noise. Unfortunately, the CRISM instrument on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter with about the same specifications as on BepiColombo wasn't producing any really usable visual light color images. For some reason I couldn't figure out yet, the signal-to-noise ratio was incredible bad within the typical RGB spectral ranges. Outside the RGB bands, in IR, it was better: http://crism.jhuapl.edu

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:01 pm

About the low SNR I noticed in the RGB bands of CRISM: It was, if I remember correctly from those about 20 raw images I looked at, only around 5:1 and often even worse. That would place it into the range of microscope cameras who also have to fight with those low light levels, see comparable graph on https://www.microscopyu.com/tutorials/c ... oise-ratio showing about 5 - 20 photons per pixel for a 5:1 SNR.

Normal commercial cameras have a 40dB SNR, see https://interceptor121.com/2020/04/23/s ... as-in-2020, which would be a 10000:1 ratio SNR. ratio := 10^(dB/10)

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GaryN
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Sat Jun 25, 2022 8:00 pm

For some reason I couldn't figure out yet, the signal-to-noise ratio was incredible bad within the typical RGB spectral ranges.
Low light levels on Mars? We don't have measured light levels, or if we do they aren't telling us. I'll have a better look at the instruments now that Bepi has reached its destination.
I was just looking into how hot the surface of Mercury is. Extremely hot they tell us, up to 750-800 F. How is this temperature measured? It isn't as far as I can see, it is calculated based on assumptions.
We can measure the amount of light reflected from a planet, but how do we know the amount striking it? The light, of course, originates at the Sun, which radiates as a blackbody of temperature about T = 5800 K.
https://web.njit.edu/~gary/320/Lecture14.html
Objection! The temperature of the Sun has never been directly measured from space.
It doesn't seem like BepiColumbo has any instruments to directly measure the surface temperature of Mercury either, such as a pyrometer.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:29 pm

It seems that the lux and lumens units for moon or planet surface illumination levels were dropped after the introduction of CCD sensors, and nobody I have contacted is willing or able to derive lunar surface illumination levels from any of the data presently available from official lunar orbital satellite mission sources. We have only the Apollo 8 far side sun lit values of between 160-320 lumens, which with minimal atmospheric attenuation of the purported 135,000 lumens solar visible light flux is obviously way below expected values.

For Mars, the only direct measurement was from the short-lived Russian Mars 3 lander with its reading of 50 lux. This is way below calculated levels based on the solar constant model. It was thought that there was a dust storm at the time, blocking the Sunlight.

Solar radiation on Mars
Abstract
Detailed information on solar radiation characteristics on Mars are necessary for effective design of future planned solar energy systems operating on the surface of Mars. In this paper we present a procedure and solar radiation related data from which the diurnally, hourly and daily variation of the global, direct beam and diffuse insolation on Mars are calculated. The radiation data are based on measured optical depth of the Martian atmosphere derived from images taken of the sun with a special diode on the Viking cameras; and computation based on multiple wavelength and multiple scattering of the solar radiation.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... on_on_Mars

The Viking Lander camera design
https://pds.nasa.gov/ds-view/pds/viewIn ... OST_ID=VL1

So what readings were obtained by these special diodes? Not surprisingly, I haven't found anything yet.

The cameras on the Mars rovers also have not been used to determine any actual lux values, though this should be possible with all the data available to the mission scientists. Much easier with a light meter of course, which is why they no longer send them out there.

It is obvious from the early space mission photography though that the light levels are way below those expected by theory based on the solar constant model. We need to go back to basics and begin with proof of the visibility of the Sun in space and direct measurement of the heat. Never going to happen.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:52 pm

GaryN wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:29 pm Apollo 8 far side sun lit values of between 160-320 lumens, which with minimal atmospheric attenuation of the purported 135,000 lumens solar visible light flux
[...]
The Viking Lander camera design
[...]
So what readings were obtained by these special diodes? Not surprisingly, I haven't found anything yet.
Is the 160-320 lumens the already reflected light by the 0.12 lunar albedo or calculated back to before the reflection on the surface?

The Viking Lander camera is quite simple in principle as only one photodiode is used for each channel. 3 color channels RGB, 3 IR channels, about 4 panchromatic channels. The pre-amplifier gain can be selected in 4 or so steps and the selected gain is recorded in the raw data file. I haven't seen anything unusual there except for one color channel which is off by a large factor, but that wouldn't affect the total image impression as the raw data is recorded and published separately for each channel. The Mars images show about half the recorded intensity as test images on Earth, which would be expected.

On the Perseverance Rover the SkyCam takes daily observations of the sky brightness: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/pia2417 ... ers-skycam
I was surprised about this dedicated instrument, especially as not much result is published about it. Maybe it just got dusty too fast, similar fate as the temperature-based wind-sensors on that rover and the previous Curiosity Rover. Both failed within a few days after landing.

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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:58 am

Is the 160-320 lumens the already reflected light by the 0.12 lunar albedo or calculated back to before the reflection on the surface?
It's a direct reading from a 1 degree spot meter.
On the Perseverance Rover the SkyCam takes daily observations of the sky brightness..
NASAs moto seems to be Obfuscation through Complexity. The boffins might be clever but can't think simple. All I am looking for is a graph plotting surface illumination levels in lux against time of day, how tough can it be?

India used a Bayer filtered industrial camera for their Mars Colour Camera (MCC) onboard India’s Mars Orbiter Spacecraft.
https://www.isro.gov.in/pslv-c25-mars- ... rs-orbiter

CMOSIS CMV4000 USB3 color industrial camera
https://www.ximea.com/en/products/camer ... ial-camera

Exposure times are from 34 ms to 490 ms according to ISRO, so can we estimate a surface illumination levels from the data available?

Analysis of Mars Color Camera (MCC) data sets of Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM)
https://vedas.sac.gov.in/vedas/download ... aining.pdf

How to Use a Digital Camera as an External Light Meter
https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/meters-digicam.htm
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:28 am

GaryN wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:58 am NASAs moto seems to be Obfuscation through Complexity.

India used a Bayer filtered industrial camera for their Mars Colour Camera (MCC) onboard India’s Mars Orbiter Spacecraft.
Also the simple question about the local Mars soil and surface temperature is not really answered as there wasn't any mechanically connected soil temperature sensor on any mission since Pathfinder if I remember correctly. All were IR brightness sensors and those others in the Insight Lander's hammer drill never made it into the ground.

The Ingenuity Helicopter uses a smartphone camera, actually highest pixel density ever on Mars with 20MP on the tiny sensor and I have seen so far only one bad pixel! But could be that the camera firmware is hiding bad pixels by interpolation. The brightness seen by that camera appears to match the expectation of about 60% sunlight on Earth.

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GaryN
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Re: The Dark Moon

Unread post by GaryN » Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:17 pm

The Ingenuity Helicopter uses a smartphone camera,
Possibly the Toshiba T4KB3, BSI sensor.
A back-illuminated sensor, also known as backside illumination (BI) sensor, is a type of digital image sensor that uses a novel arrangement of the imaging elements to increase the amount of light captured and thereby improve low-light performance.
The brightness seen by that camera appears to match the expectation of about 60% sunlight on Earth.
Looks can be deceiving. Send a light meter
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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