Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
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Gerry Rzeppa
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Location: Franklin, Kentucky

Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Unread post by Gerry Rzeppa » Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:09 am

I hope I've put this in the right place.

Here's my story; I'll keep it brief. Some years ago I developed a modular vacuum-tube guitar amplifier in the hope of explaining electrical circuits to my (then) 10-year-old son. Kind of a LEGO-kit approach to electronics. Please take just one minute to view the associated video on my failed Kickstarter project:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13 ... ar-amp-kit

I chose a guitar amp as my subject because it is one of the few still-in-use electrical circuits that includes all the major components in discrete form.

I decided to explain the workings of the amplifier from an electron-flow perspective since that's the way the operation of vacuum tubes is typically described in the literature. Looks to me like plasma inside that tube. Unfortunately, when I tried to gather further information for my explanations on various electronics and physics forums (from the electron-flow perspective), my posts were met with remarkable resistance and I was eventually banned from several forums. For example, a diagram from a 1950's textbook that said the electrons leaving a vacuum tube "piled up" at the tube end of the plate resistor, would invariably evoke a tirade of irate responses like, "Electrons don't 'pile up' anywhere, idiot! E=IR. Go back to school and learn the math! And stop teaching your son! You're doing more harm than good!"

So, in search of common ground, I tried simpler questions. But even a trivial question like asking what physical changes (at the atomic level) occur in a couple of wires when connected between a charged capacitor and a resistor would provoke useless replies such as, "Since the wires A and B are subjected to the Earth's magnetic field, the wires will experience two diminishing forces in opposite directions given by the cross product of current times magnetic field" and "Extremely slight increase in length and diameter due to a miniscule amount of heat release due to resistance" and "Wire A and wire B are practically equivalent. We do not consider charge concentration as a physical difference."

To make a long story short, about that time I suffered a heart attack and the project got put on the shelf. Until now, fully recovered and reading Tom Findlay's "A Beginner's View of Our Electric Universe" book, my hope was rekindled that there might be someone out there somewhere willing to discuss the operation of electronic circuits from an unconventional, electron-flow perspective. Circuits on Earth that is, rather than in the Heavens. If you're the guy, great -- please contact me directly (gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com). If you're not the guy, well, thanks anyway.

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D_Archer
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Re: Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Unread post by D_Archer » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:28 am

I play guitar and i like that amp kit idea. The kickstarter failed because the idea is nog big enough and not fully fleshed out, what is the basic kit going to look like?, how does it sound? (demonstration vid) What is the pricing scheme? What is your market? (people with no money.. you should have targeted high end guitar enthusiasts with money)... the accompanying video should not have been that song but a real explanation video.. i could go on...

About electricity... it is indeed not electrons, it is charge, and physically charge is photons (photons that are real physical objects with a radius and they spin). When a large group of photons have direction one way, lets say from the plus side to the minus side (+ means lots of photons, minus means less photons than the plus side), you have a stream , this stream is the electric field (E-field), bigger particles (like ions and electrons) are moved by this stream of photons (simple push mechanics), that is why a candle flame in an electric field has its tip pushed the towards the minus plate, the ions are larger and thus pushed more by the stream of photons and thus more on the left side than the electrons in the pictures below:

Image

image link:
http://www.one-school.net/Malaysia/Univ ... andle1.png

A candle flame is a plasma.

Maybe it helps you see/visualize what happens in those tube amps...

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -

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JP Michael
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Re: Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Unread post by JP Michael » Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:16 am

Great idea mate. I wish I had paid more attention to electrics in workshop class!

Whilst I might have little experience of electrodynamics and have many questions about particle physics myself (like, "What is an electron, really?!"), I can read and quote those with more industry experience.

Old mate Anthony Peratt says in the introduction to his Physics of the Plasma Universe (Springer, 2015, 2nd Ed.), p.2:
Anthony Peratt wrote:Plasmas exist... in the sea of electrons that moves freely within energy bands in the crystalline structure of metallic solids, and in many other objects.
In other words, electron flow in a metal conductor is plasma. It's just that the ions (the metal's crystalline structure) does not move with them. And of course, where you have the flow of electrons you have the creation of temporary magnetic fields at a 90 degree angle to the flow. Metal wires or filamentary plasmas, these are two aspects of the same electromagnetic phenomenon, really.

On electrons 'piling up' at the tube end of a plate resistor, this sounds like a formation of a cathode sheath double layer as per Peratt, p. 189:
Anthony Peratt wrote:If an electrical discharge is produced between an anode and a cathode..., a cathode sheath forms near the cathode and serves to accelerate electrons that carry a current through the plasma. This sheath, a "virtual cathode", is one layer of the double layer. Similarly, a "virtual anode" is set up near the anode, protecting the plasma from this electrode. Again, a space-charge layer constitutes the border between the double layer and the plasma. The double layers carry electric currents.
I also like this video, which shows what happens when you hurl a neodymium magnet at a copper plate. Pretty fun stuff!

Also, video version of D_Archer's candle point above.

All the best with your research,
JP.

crawler
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Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Unread post by crawler » Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:42 pm

Gerry Rzeppa wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:09 am
..........my hope was rekindled that there might be someone out there somewhere willing to discuss the operation of electronic circuits from an unconventional, electron-flow perspective. Circuits on Earth that is, rather than in the Heavens. If you're the guy, great -- please contact me directly (gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com). If you're not the guy, well, thanks anyway.
Google Ivor Catt (& search on youtube) --------- Forrest Bishop ------- Wakefield Experiment -- & search on Thunderbolts.
You will find enough there to keep u going for months.
But if u contact Ivor don't mention electrons, he doesn't believe in them.
I don't know much about electro stuff, but feel free to post or message me & i might be able to push if u get stuck re Heaviside's slab of E by H energy current.

If u want to stir up a forum or two, i suggest asking what the magnetic force on a charge might be if the charge moves along near a wire at 1 mm/s when the electrons in the wire are moving along at 1 mm/s in the same direction (ie as in an electric current).
Which reminds me, Ivor doesn't believe in charge neither.

And u will love reading about the Faraday Effect in spinning discs. Lots of stuff on youtube on that too. Post or message if stuck.

crawler
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Unread post by crawler » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:08 pm

Forgot a good one. Why does the speed of electricity along a say copper conductor depend on the insulation? For example if the insulation is plastic it goes at 2c/3 kmps.

hlg
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:31 am

Re: Looking for help in understanding electricity here on Earth

Unread post by hlg » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:46 am

About electricity... it is indeed not electrons, it is charge, and physically charge is photons (photons that are real physical objects with a radius and they spin). When a large group of photons have direction one way, lets say from the plus side to the minus side (+ means lots of photons, minus means less photons than the plus side), you have a stream , this stream is the electric field (E-field), bigger particles (like ions and electrons) are moved by this stream of photons (simple push mechanics)
i am interested in such explanations, but i always thought (because i was taught) of charge as excess or lack of electrons, somehow filling up extra orbits of nuclei or being sucked away from them...

i never heard of dark photons blowing from charged to uncharged plates...

seems like i have yet a lot to learn about electricity.

in terms of amplifier-tubes i always wondered, why there is a need to heat the electrodes to give off "electron-gas" as the teachers described it 40 years ago, when i went to college...

it may well be that photons are blowing these electrons out in the vacuum of the tube, if i think about that...

thank you for your input!

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