Electrical studies of the ocean

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
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Elizabeth Rose
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Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by Elizabeth Rose » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:51 pm

And while I'm bugging this subforum, I may as well ask for any electric universe perspective studies of the ocean. How it moves, why tide is a thing, how its sodium rich nature may make it exceptionally vulnerable to electrical attraction and influence. Stuff like that..

It's constantly in motion, and there are many billions of tons of water to move. I imagine the force inflicting upon it has to be pretty strong, including perhaps the field of Earth itself?

Any reference studies? I've always been very intrigued for more electro-oceanic information. ^-^

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JP Michael
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by JP Michael » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:50 am

I have recently begun to wonder the same thing myself but I am at a loss as to how to go about researching it.

I have noticed plasmoidal (convection) patterning on water surfaces:

Figure 1. Waterspout 'Plasmoid'
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Figure 2. 'Plasmoid'
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One will notice that the water surface has two general appearances: 'smooth' and 'rough', which seem to be corresponding to the flow of charge resulting in the waterspout jetting into the air from the centre of the 'smooth plasmoid'. These 'smooth' and 'rough' areas are quite independent of wave or wind direction as the following image will demonstrate:

Figure 3. Smooth vs. Rough Surface
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Someone will likely complain at this point, "Oh, that's just a wake," or, "Oh, that's just a convection of cold/warm water."

The following images demonstrate that these surface water features are quite separate from ship wakes, although I do note that ship wakes seem to cause regions of 'smooth' water. Given that many ship hulls are made of aluminium or steel, I surmise that, perhaps, the 'smooth' areas are negatively charged surface regions which the ship's hull, or its attached zinc sacrificial anodes, or both, has attracted to itself and are consequently left in its wake.

Figure 4. Wakes vs. Not Wakes
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Figure 5. Wakes vs. Not Wakes
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Note that these regions form of their own accord, quite separately to the presence of shipping:

Figure 6. Not Wakes
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The above image also demonstrates that these regions are quite independent of wind/wave direction, less so water current, and follow their own snaking, fractal patterns.

Lastly, these snaking currents are common, on a larger scale, worldwide in the oceans. If you jump onto earth.nullschool.net, click the Earth tab in the bottom left and change the overlay to "Ocean" and "Currents", you will see copious examples of this:

Figure 7. Snaking Currents, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa.
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Different oceanic currents travel in different directions depending on the time of the year (eg. January compared to June), so it is clearly a complex and wholly integrated system.

I think we're at the tip of the iceberg concerning the presence of dynamic electric current as a formative feature of the world's oceans, but I do not have the expertise to elaborate more than some general, and perhaps incorrect, observations.

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Elizabeth Rose
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by Elizabeth Rose » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:24 am

Thanks for your reply Michael.

The waterspout photo is a wonderful one. The corkscrew charge is obvious, and I think there is little room for being incorrect, at least with that one.

It reminds me a lot of personal, private observations I have made in storm fronts. Waterspouts seem to be a lot like tornadoes, and tornadoes and supercells were like one of my earliest fascinations into electrical patterning and symmetry. But I must admit to knowing relatively little about oceanic phenomena.

It makes me wonder what one could do with simple saltwater in a lab, and some electric fields.

https://earth.nullschool.net is a wonderful website of course, that I am no stranger to. But I never spent time on water currents before.
It can't be a coincidence though that the strongest current chaoses follow the equator and where the aurora lights touch down on Earth's surface..

Can you elaborate at all on these reversals you talk of? It seems at this point like Earth is responsible for most of the ocean's movement. But yearly reversals would be solar-indicative, obviously. As would the current rings around the poles. And something tells me the moon still plays a major role. Earth's sodium-rich waters seem to be vulnerable to a myriad of cosmic influence, at least to my first glance.

Cargo
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by Cargo » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:22 am

I would throw some 'water' on the premise of surface disruption effect being electrical. We must remember that different medium can have drastically different factors, and nothing can sometimes be more different then a body of water and open air. Most of the different water surface distortions are caused by fast moving air currents rolling and pushing along the surface. Sailors use this sighing skill to find where the wind is coming or going.

However, on a completely different side of the coin, it's is very likely tornadoes, spouts, cyclones+ have an very powerful electric source. It's part of a current junction between the surface (land or water) and the sky. I think that is obvious to most EU people.

Nice spout picture.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

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JP Michael
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by JP Michael » Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:18 am

Elisabeth Rose wrote:Can you elaborate at all on these reversals you talk of?
At the moment I am confined to observations only. Obviously 'experts' on oceanic currents will have warm/cool water explanations for these, but I can only wonder if there is more to the picture we are missing.

Below I have illustrated the seasonal variation in the Indian ocean, between Indonesia to the east, Sri Lanka and India in the North, and East Africa/Madagascar in the west. I have not yet compared with earlier seasons to see if there are regular patterns of current movement.

Other important currents exist mostly in the equatorial oceanic regions between continents, eg. in the Atlantic between West Africa and Brazil; in the Pacific between Colombia/Ecuador/Central America across Kiribati to Papua New Guinea, Indonesia and Philippines.

Other currents, like that orginating from the Carribean and flowing north-east up the eastern US coast before dissipating into the Atlantic, and that originating south-east from the Cape of Good Hope, South Africa, and then circling the Antarctic continent in an easterly direction, do not seem to have seasonal variation.

Figure 1. 1st January, 2019

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Figure 2. 1st March, 2019

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Figure 3. 1st June, 2019

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Figure 4. 1st September, 2019

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Figure 5. 1st December, 2019

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Figure 6. 1st January, 2020

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Figure 7. 1st March, 2020

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Cargo wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:22 am
I would throw some 'water' on the premise of surface disruption effect being electrical. We must remember that different medium can have drastically different factors, and nothing can sometimes be more different then a body of water and open air. Most of the different water surface distortions are caused by fast moving air currents rolling and pushing along the surface. Sailors use this sighing skill to find where the wind is coming or going.
But what is wind more than the movement of charged particles (ions and electrons) and their accompanying neutral gaseous particles? To me, wind rolling along an alternate body of differing charge potential, like a lake or ocean, is going to be a cause of various electrical phenomenon.

This leads me to wonder how are these ionised particles in wind interacting with water surfaces? Water itself has an ionisation potential of 12.61 eV. Does water 'evaporate' to form clouds because of heat/sunlight, or because heat/sunlight gave it enough energy to get ionised and become electrically responsive to current already in the air? Does wind cause waves because of resonant electrical energies it is imparting to the surface layer of the water? And let us not forget, of course, that water is one of the most fundamental of dipolar molecules. Even without ionisation it still has its own dipole moment based entirely on its molecular geometry. That's why water is so good as a solvent: it can act as positive or negative as required, able to carry ions (eg. Na+) and anions (eg. Cl-). Even without being ionised, shouldn't we expect water's natural dipole moment to want to respond to outside electrical stimulus, like that originating from the atmosphere?

I do understand the importance of boundaries between different bodies. The surface of the ocean is clearly a boundary condition between the body of water and the body of gaseous atmosphere, in the same way that the ground surface is a boundary between solid earth and gaseous atmosphere. And there are boundaries within regions, eg. troposphere vs. ionosphere. What has not been researched (much? at all?) is the precise interaction of current, be it ionic or electrons, between these regions and their respective manifestations as volcanism/thunderstorm (earth <-> atmosphere) and thunderstorm/hurricane (water <-> atmosphere), let alone what is actually happening with electrical current in the ocean itself.

It seems to me there are some important boundaries to consider in Earth's overall electric circuitry:

Core <-> Mantle
Mantle <-> Atmosphere (volcanoes)
Mantle <-> Crust
Mantle <-> Ocean (ie underwater volcanoes)
Crust <-> Atmosphere (land to air)
Crust <-> Ocean (underwater land to water)
Ocean <-> Atmosphere (water to air)
Atmosphere <-> Space (air to solar system circuit)

How an electrical current is going to travel through each of these mediums will differ, as well as how charge buildup and balancing between each of the relevant boundaries will also manifest. It is an extremely complex system to understand.

Cargo
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by Cargo » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:08 am

Yes, I didn't want to bring up the boundaries. I think that's beyond and external perhaps do talking about electrical properties of the oceans. Which I would say holistically play a huge role in managing the capacitance of the planet sailing through a sea of plasma.
Cheers
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

hlg
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by hlg » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:30 am

may i throw a name in this great discussion? it is gerald (jerry) pollack...

he found out that light in the infrared region makes water act like a battery on hygrophilic surfaces and of course that watersurfaces are always made of that "fourth phase water", a kind of liquid crystal...

https://www.pollacklab.org/

but of course you did already know that, right?

so water some mm below the surface may always get electrically charged, pushing positive ions down and outwards, flattening the EZ zones out, pushing solvents like salt out and concentrate them in the roughening water in its surroundings. but i am just guessing here.

maybe salt and heat cause high evaporation in these areas, giving lift to positive charges to step up finally to the earths ionosphere

these currents, emanating simply of light and push of fast steam-particles may well be driving a lot of motions we experience in nature...

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JP Michael
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by JP Michael » Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:33 pm

hlg wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:30 am
may i throw a name in this great discussion? it is gerald (jerry) pollack...
Thank you so much for throwing this name in the ring! I had, actually, completely forgotten about Jerry's research.

This gives additional food for thought: if the daytime cycle causes a surface exclusion zone, what happens during the night cycle?

hlg
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by hlg » Thu May 14, 2020 2:04 pm

:D

that depends:

if there are clouds aloft the surface at night, there will grow an EZ too.

if there are not, the daytime zone will diminish...

is there anyone who can imagine what effects the polarization between the ez (negative charge?) and the body of the ocean (carrying the positive charges) will have on

1 wind,
2 sand on the beaches,
3 waves and
4 aerosols

Cargo
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Re: Electrical studies of the ocean

Unread post by Cargo » Mon May 18, 2020 5:37 am

Food for thought, a comment on a video linked to in Electric Weather thread.

" tides are higher when the sun and moon or a hundred eighty degrees from each other because the diamagnetic properties of water allow the water to be repelled from that stronger Connection in the sky and ends up pushing the bed of water down while it's pushed out and appears to rise on the shores because it's being pushed down in the middle just like when you put your hand in a bowl of water the level rises"

If current repulsion pushed down and spread out great bodies of water, due to their electric/magnetic nature, this could actually make more sense then some body out in space with gravitational pulling and stretching.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

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