The Boring Sky (Sun)

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sun May 08, 2022 3:28 am

Skylab had 3 different UV telescope cameras, but except for the Comet Kohoutek photos showing its anti-tail, not really convincing results. The S019 and S183 with conventional chemical photography. The S201 was comparable to the Apollo 16 FUVC.
  • S201 Far-Ultraviolet Electrographic Camera
S019 and S183 photos of the Large Magellanic Cloud: https://history.nasa.gov/SP-404/p22.htm
all S019 photos: https://archive.org/details/Skylab-S019-JPG/5f016.jpg
S201 photo of the Large Magellanic Cloud: https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//fu ... 8.000.html

I guess the 195 S019 photos are all without the spectrographic prism active. That would spread each star into a wide line.

List of all Skylab experiments: https://space.nss.org/space-in-the-seve ... periments/

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Wed May 11, 2022 7:30 pm

I see I didn't include the link in this previous comment:
"Astronomy is a lie" In this YT video at 18:08, William Tompkins, an ex-Naval Intelligence officer expresses his beliefs.
If we are to believe the Apollo astronauts that the stars are not visible from space then yes, astronomy is a lie.
https://youtu.be/7ax36Uqcm88?t=1085
He forgot to include geology in his list of lies.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sat May 14, 2022 7:54 pm

About UV this star tracker on the SR-71 is interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhee ... ion_system
Called “blue light” celestial navigation system. If it was just UV they would have called it that way. Maybe some specific spectral line only to increase the signal to noise towards the sky as the device also worked during the day with about 60 star position in the computer.

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Sun May 15, 2022 1:29 am

Called “blue light” celestial navigation system.
The military do not tell us a whole lot about their toys, which is to be expected. The fact that they use a quartz glass for the window indicates that they are looking below about 300nm, so their blue could be called an 'extended blue' for the near UV, just as they used 'extended red' for their near IR instruments.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:11 pm

Have the Russians really never tried to use a visual light telescope in space? A quick search didn't show any light telescope, only X-ray and radio and UV:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_space_telescopes

The only current non-NASA visual light space telescopes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Eart ... _Satellite
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrosat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRITE (this pair of cube-sats is interesting as it should be able to provide spectacular wide angle photos)

As we discussed UV here also: China is operating a small UV telescope on their Lunar rover:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e ... cope_(LUT)

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:05 pm

NEOSSat is a bit of an embarrassment to the Canadian teams.They have been blaming each other for the failure when there is actually no problem with the science or engineering, it is that their instrument is facing directly AWAY from the Earth, and that no matter how sensitive the detector there is nothing to see!

from A17:
“CC Question 12 for each of you: What do you hope to tell your grandchildren as your most memorable moment of your trip to the Moon?”

“Well, I'll start with that one, Hank. I had two impressions. The-the first is the dazzling beauty of Descartes -the surface. It was just one of the most awe-inspiring sights I've ever seen. And, secondly, on the EVA, when you look away from the Earth -or the Moon - it's Just the utter blackness of space. It really is black out there.”
Unless someone is a Moon hoaxer, why would they not beieve what the astronauts say?
Decartes is also interesting in that statement. He does not elaborate on what was so awe-inspiring, but from looking at the mission it seems that when he was looking at Descartes the Sun was behind his craft and the surface he would be seeing it at full opposition and much brighter than normal. He likely saw a surface covered in glinting multi-coloured jewels.
I did E-Mail the NEOSSat people and explained it to them, but no answer of course, they are probably all PHd boffins.
That The Japanese in particular with their first class optics and sensors would not have their own space telescope is beyond belief to me and is evidence in itself that it is not so easy. That the Amateur Space Telescope never got to fly is a shame but would have failed to see anything either, and would have also been put down to equipment failure.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:37 pm

How strange! I hadn't checked the details yet about each telescope sat. No NEOSAT image is available in public,why? Even a misguided image with power supply noise would be an important science result to be published as learning from errors is best.

The Indian Astrosat was operational and produced some nice x-ray images but nothing impressive in the visual light band from its 16" telescope. Comparison of NGC 40 with a 9" commercial telescope on Earth:
https://www.astrobin.com/104509/
https://www.indiatimes.com/trending/soc ... 25456.html

The BRITE cubesat pair is more a precise startracker, nothing for producing useful images I see.

With that, the result is so far, no space based visual light telescope except Hubble exceeded or even reached the same quality of visual light images as small commercial telescopes on Earth.

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:00 pm

With that, the result is so far, no space based visual light telescope except Hubble exceeded or even reached the same quality of visual light images as small commercial telescopes on Earth.
Hubble though is NOT a regular telescope, it uses hardware and software that allow for images to be created by complex computation. I fail to understand why the experiments performed by the Apollo astronauts along with their visual observations are completely ignored by academia. Long exposures with the most sensitive film available and nothing shows up at all, what's not to believe? It is the atmosphere that allows for the seeing or photographing of the cosmos from Earth, there is no other explanation.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:22 am

Found some NEOSSAT images:
https://acuriousguy.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... spect.html

One of the two telescope camera's spectral sensitivity starts at 350nm, that means still in the UV, but covers the visual light range from that through near Infrared:
https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eopo ... /n/neossat

For comparison, the Orion nebula in UV, Vis and IR:
UV: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/M ... 1b47bac815
Vis and IR: https://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1006c/

Difficult to say with a quick look if the available images only captured the UV part, that would require a more detailed review.

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:41 pm

One of the two telescope camera's spectral sensitivity starts at 350nm, that means still in the UV, but covers the visual light range from that through near Infrared:
Yes, but with no filters then how do we know if ANY of what they show us is in the visible wavelengths? Good to see they are getting some use out of the mission, but seems like it is still not fully "fit for purpose". The other thing they (or Hubble) do not tell us is the orientation of the instrument during the observations. We know that from the ISS when looking towards Earth that both the astronauts and their cameras can see stars quite well, so if they point NEOSSAT so that its line of sight to its target is through Earths upper atmosphere then it too should be able to see things.
I see that with the sensor they are using they are allowing the full wells to overflow into adjacent pixels so they get bigger stars when the photon flux is higher. Some clever stuff no doubt, but deceptive really.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:20 am

Sure, we don't know if the NEOSSAT images are exposed by only the UV part or also the visible light.

About the visual size of stars in images: What speaks against diffraction in the telescope optics? As far I see even pure mirror telescopes are affected by this. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airy_disk

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:17 pm

Airy Disk. Not relevant to a conventional telescopes in space as they would see nothing at all. I could prove that quite easily if I could just hitch a ride to space with Elon Musk. Fat chance. The only people who understand the true nature of EM radiation in space are the military, which is why if you want to go anywhere in deep space you have to buy a Star Tracker camera from them. The $50K units you can buy for LEO use won't work once there is no atmosphere to look through. Leonardo S.p.A. is one of the sources, but all sources have ties to US/EU military. The Vatican is a shareholder in Leonardo S.p.A., and has been involved in optics since the days of Galileo.
Galileo’s Secret Telescope Technology Revealed
So an interesting question is to ask what theory of optics Galileo used to make these advances. The standard view is that Galileo’s improvements were an educated extrapolation of the optical ideas used to design spectacles.

But today, Yaakov Zik and Giora Hon at the University of Haifa in Israel say that Galileo’s understanding of optics must have been much more detailed than that of a standard spectacle-maker. Indeed, they argue that the improvements Galileo made to the telescope could only have been possible with a new theory of optics as revolutionary as the device itself.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2013/0 ... -revealed/

The secret for the technology of seeing stars (or whatever they are) in deep space also came from the Vatican, by way of the German scientists who were brought to the USA after WW2, and they got the information by threatening to destroy the Vatican if they did not play along. The German scientists worked for the military when they came to the US and NASA was originally formed with the Germans as lead scientists. The trail is there for those willing to follow it.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:50 am

GaryN wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:17 pm The secret for the technology of seeing stars (or whatever they are) in deep space also came from the Vatican, by way of the German scientists who were brought to the USA after WW2, and they got the information by threatening to destroy the Vatican if they did not play along.
Are you sure they already worked on startrackers for space use? I've never heard anything about that. The A4 and I guess also the larger A7 rocket only used inertial navigation devices based on gyroscopes. Star trackers for aircrafts were certainly researched and maybe even used already, but those work with normal telescopes in the atmosphere.

Let's see how well a non-classic star tracker on the GLADOS cube-sat works out, finally to be launched this year after years of delay:
https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/glados.htm
https://www.nanosats.eu/sat/glados
software: http://openstartracker.org

That appears to be the first sat without the classic star trackers in a high orbit outside of any atmospheric effects, just using normal commercial optics.

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:48 pm

Re GLADOS:There are AFAIK no cubesats in GEO and Raytheon and the Air Force Research Laboratory will be the first to experiment:

Blue Canyon Technologies Expands Into GEO With Its First CubeSat
The Ascent mission is evaluating the performance of commercial-off-the-shelf technology and capabilities in the GEO space environment, only previously seen in LEO flight experiments.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... st-CubeSat
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:34 am

The Blue Canyon Technologies star tracker appears to be a conventional, just smaller, but already used many times:

advertizing from June 8, 2022: https://twitter.com/BlueCanyonTech/stat ... 3179884545
BCT's Nano Star Tracker (NST) is setting a new smallsat standard. With an improved optical lens and algorithms, our NST now provides 1 arcsecond performance. Affordable and performance-proven, with 179 flown on-orbit, these star trackers are ideal for all spacecraft platforms.

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