The Boring Sky (Sun)

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
BuckeyeFrank
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by BuckeyeFrank » Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:16 am

GaryN wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:18 pm
Do you believe that the Apollo astronauts actually went to the Moon?
I believed it for many years, but have doubts these days. I decided to trust even less, of what the government sponsored sciences offer us as fact and re-investigate most of what I though I knew. Your past post, on trying to establish a chain of custody of Hubble telescope photographs was vary useful knowledge.

Cargo
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Cargo » Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:59 am

Not related to any hoax or anything, but what is really true is how a simple search for The Boring Sky (which is a pretty unique phrase on the Internet) is ignored by google and even duckduckgo hides any topic preview with this overlay:
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The Boring Sky (Sun) Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct.
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I think we've really got this one solved. Space is Black. The sky is boring off planet. You can't see the Sun even.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes
"You know not what. .. Perhaps you no longer trust your feelings,." Michael Clarage
"Charge separation prevents the collapse of stars." Wal Thornhill

Brent72
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Brent72 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:09 am

GaryN wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:18 am A $10 billion boondoggle. From outside of Earths atmosphere the heating of the shield should be recognised as being from the photo-electric effect and not from thermal infrared heat from the Sun. And of course the interpretations of the data collected by this instrument will be tailored to fit the standard model of the cosmos.
If only the JWST would provide open access data in real time!

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:09 pm

I think we've really got this one solved. Space is Black. The sky is boring off planet. You can't see the Sun even.
The original Star Trek series had it right. There were no windows on the Bridge, just display screens, and of course using many high tech sensors you would be able to have lots of Hubble-like eye candy to look at!

If the Sun is not what we are told it is though, then what is it? I'd say it is, at heart, metaphysical. The ancient mystics knew much more than we give them credit for.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:25 pm

Cargo wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:57 am As was said 2 years ago by an eyewitness account, "It's perfectly black" -Chris Hadfield.
And you would think that in the pre-digital camera era someone would have tried to take a slightly longer time exposure of the stars from the space station. The more strict space-rating back in time for devices brought to the ISS could of course a reason preventing that, but I’m not sure about that. Something appears to be different there in brightness or spectrum. There is also the surprising story from Apollo 13 where they tried to see a bright comet during their mission, but failed even with two attempts.

In the previous forum here, there was a discussion about the blue sky origin, which may be related: http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 10&t=15106

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:46 am

For sure the sky is not blue from scattering, there is no sunlight to scatter!
"And you would think that in the pre-digital camera era someone would have tried to take a slightly longer time exposure of the stars from the space station.
Stars can be photographed from the space station when looking towards Earth and when the Sun is in the correct position, just below the rim of the Earth.

In this SpaceX ISS docking video one of the cameras seems to be showing coloured stars behind the approaching capsule showing its navigation lights. None of the other camera angles show a similar background. Could be camera noise though if the gain is cranked, NASA or SpaceX do not say.
At the left side of the image it looks like the adge of Earths atmosphere and the stars there are twinkling.
https://youtu.be/0Rd8Q0gBHuE?t=1896
The video seems to be a composite though as the approaching craft jiggles about but the background objects stay still. Odd.

From cislunar space though the Apollo astronauts could not photograph the stars or see them, even though they were in total blackout for long periods while the experiments were performed.

Apollo 16, Magazine TT
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apol ... azine/?125

According to the photo index these exposures ranged from 5 seconds to 2 minutes, taken with the 2485 film, the most sensitive one the military had at the time.
The only time the Apollo astronauts saw the Sun from space was when looking through the sextant or the spotting scope and using the 6000 lines/cm eye-piece grating NASA provided. It was listed as a dark filter, but the astronauts said the sun looked very odd. 6000 lines/cm shows the Lyman Alpha spectral emission line, which is vacuum UV. This only worked when the astronauts were in the vicinity of the Moon and the line of sight was through the lunar dust atmosphere. In cislunar space only the sextant could see the stars as it too was a far UV device but used a photo-multiplier to increase photon count to the sensor.

Better watch what I say in these posts though, might end up in an asylum! :D
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:55 am

The last space shuttle mission a few days before the Challenger explosion had a 35mm SLR camera on board with a window mount and light shielding for manually taking photos of comet Halley (CHAMP experiment). Unfortunately it failed due to battery problems. There might have been another camera on board, listed as classified infrared photography prototype, but not much is known about that. On Challenger, next to that 35mm camera again, the Halley observation platform ASTRO-1 was in the payload bay with 3 UV telescopes. After shuttle flight started again until 1991 when the first digital camera was brought on board, apparently not much chemical photography happened. There was one Hasselblad tried, but the shutter failed and there was the huge IMEX camera brought up for the Blue Planet movie, though I don’t remember any space-ward scenes there, all show either Earth or the bright station. Also there was more focus now on lightning photography in the upper atmosphere, which provided some really interesting results as the first sprites and upward directed jets were discovered with it.

CHAMP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-61-C

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:33 pm

ASTRO-1 was in the payload bay with 3 UV telescopes
NASA’s First Stellar Observatory, OAO 2, Turns 50
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/20 ... 2-turns-50

The telescope was based on the optics developed for the ICBM program, and was also the basis for the Sextant used on the Apollo missions. It detected the Lyman Alpha line of neutral hydrogen. The FUVC used on the Apollo 16 mission to photograph the stars from the surface was also a far UV device.
The junior school model of light that we have been taught is obsolete, the military have known this since the late 50's but I suppose for National Security reasons they don't want to give us the true nature of light. More importantly, the whole house of cards that is present day astronomy would collapse.

Lyman Spitzer wanted a visible light telescope but it took almost 40 years before Hubble launched. A regular telescope was proposed to be put in orbit but this project never got off the ground for some strange reason.

An Amateur Space Telescope
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1982S ... S/abstract

Lyman Spitzer and the Space Telescope
https://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/curric ... -telescope
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:01 pm

GaryN wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:33 pm
It detected the Lyman Alpha line of neutral hydrogen. The FUVC used on the Apollo 16 mission to photograph the stars from the surface was also a far UV device.
That FUVC telescope placed on the Moon was a surprise to learn about when I first saw a replica I guess in the Astronaut Hall of Fame near KSC. Strange that it didn't make it more into the media back then and even today with the nice shiny golden design. I once looked at the raw images which are on the NASA PDS server and those indeed show stars and even clusters never seen before from Earth.

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/look ... ectrograph
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/missions ... s/f_ultra/

The Lyman Alpha light wavelength is interesting as it's the best for discovering comets. The SOHO SWAN imager taking daily full 360° sphere images placed classic comet discoveries out of business as it only left a small observation area behind Earth left for them to be able to beat it by finding comets before the instrument. That telescope uses a chamber filled with low pressure hydrogen within its optics:

http://swan.projet.latmos.ipsl.fr
https://people.ast.cam.ac.uk/~jds/soho.htm

Example of the daily images, here with a comet:
https://twitter.com/esascience/status/1 ... 6785922049

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Sun May 01, 2022 6:49 pm

I see that the FUVC experiment results are not available, or the additional instrument details. I think the experiment was little mentioned because to those who really understood the experiment it was realised that the data would not jive with existing models, and that the colour-temperature assumption was/is nonsense. The emissions are likely all from various neutrals in the atmospheres of planets or moons. The Hertzsprung–Russell diagram is a joke.
The web site of the fellow who eventually decoded the FUVC images is no longer available, he was with the same communications company as me and they did away with their free 100 MB web space, so his site and images I had linked to in the V2 Boring Sun thread are no longer available. I had permission from him to copy his web site and put it on another site but have no done that yet. NASA gave him the data files but no information on the structure of the files and he did a lot of work to figure it out. Some of the images can be found on this Flickr page though they have undergone some processing when compared to the originals.

A16-FUVC images.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamarch ... 0987035188

This page gives as much info on the FUVC as I can find:
Remembering Dr. George Carruthers
https://spacecenter.org/remembering-dr- ... arruthers/
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Sun May 01, 2022 6:50 pm

GaryN wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 6:49 pm I see that the FUVC experiment results are not available, or the additional instrument details. I think the experiment was little mentioned because to those who really understood the experiment it was realised that the data would not jive with existing models, and that the colour-temperature assumption was/is nonsense. The emissions are likely all from various neutrals in the atmospheres of planets or moons. The Hertzsprung–Russell diagram is a joke.
The web site of the fellow who eventually decoded the FUVC images is no longer available, he was with the same communications company as me and they did away with their free 100 MB web space, so his site and images I had linked to in the V2 Boring Sun thread are no longer available. I had permission from him to copy his web site and put it on another site but have not done that yet. NASA gave him the data files but no information on the structure of the files and he did a lot of work to figure it out. Some of the images can be found on this Flickr page though they have undergone some processing when compared to the originals.

A16-FUVC images.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamarch ... 0987035188

This page gives as much info on the FUVC as I can find:
Remembering Dr. George Carruthers
https://spacecenter.org/remembering-dr- ... arruthers/
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Mon May 02, 2022 1:11 am

Nice to see some raw image of those two UV-glowing rings around Earth on that flickr album! That was in my opinion the telescope's most important discovery, interestingly not mentioned in that 200 page report. Or I missed it when scanning through it.

Small correction to my comment: I saw the 2nd telescope at the Air and Space Museum in Washington, not the Astronaut Hall of Fame. Found my image again and have added it now to the album: https://photos.areo.info/Washington-DC-2009/i-CPWnp7s

The two UV-glowing rings around Earth were also presented as only image in the museum.

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Fri May 06, 2022 7:03 pm

COMET' MERCURY:
https://spaceweather.com/archive.php?vi ... &year=2022

“I used a 589 nm filter tuned to the yellow glow of sodium,” says Voltmer. Without this kind of sodium filter, Mercury’s tail would be invisible."

Sodium also has emissions in the UV though, and Earth has a sodium layer in the atmosphere at 80-100 km, so I would say the 589nm emission is in fact a re-emission from the UV of the Mercury tail. The orange background in the photo is airglow from Earths sodium layer.

Illustration of major Sodium lines:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The ... _334453073

The only way Mercury can be visible by eye from earth is by way of its atmospheric UV or shorter wavelength emissions interacting with Earths atmospheric components.
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

Holger Isenberg
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by Holger Isenberg » Fri May 06, 2022 7:43 pm

> The only way Mercury can be visible by eye from earth

You mean Mercury (with its broad spectrum) or the Sodium Tail (which only really glows noticeably at yellow 589nm)?

Sodium tails are rare to be seen from Earth, first discovery on Hale Bopp in 1997 and then later seen again in 2020 on comet NEOWISE: https://science.nasa.gov/three-tails-comet-neowise
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap210308.html (with annotations)

Could be a processing artifact that the image creator moved the monochromatic Sodium filter image more into orange, but I'm not sure why should he do that? Otherwise, does it mean that NEOWISE had higher "pressure" sodium as then the spectrum would broaden into orange: http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/SO%20Spectral.htm

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GaryN
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Re: The Boring Sky (Sun)

Unread post by GaryN » Sat May 07, 2022 7:52 pm

NEOWISE was observed from the ISS but of course they were looking towards Earth, which means looking through the atmosphere. There are no zenith views from the ISS so we do not know if the comet was visible when looking away from earth. We know from Apollo missions that comets or their tails are not visible from cislunar space.

Here is an ISS mailbag question where someone asks if the cupola ever looks into deep space:
https://youtu.be/zxzUyL3MERM?t=27
What a pathetic excuse Pettit gives for having the cupola covered during maneuvers.

"Astronomy is a lie" In this YT video at 18:08, William Tompkins, an ex-Naval Intelligence officer expresses his beliefs.
If we are to believe the Apollo astronauts that the stars are not visible from space then yes, astronomy is a lie.

Here is Lovejoy from the ISS showing the airglow layers. The strong blue layer is scattered visible sunlight according to academia, but is really nitrogen airglowr.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 2_Edit.jpg
“I think 99 times and find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me.” -Albert Einstein

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