Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

[nick c]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes

Following Sherlock Holmes' advice, I conclude that the truth of Tiahuanaco, is that the city was built at some time in the past at or slightly above sea level then, in one or more tectonic upheavals, the city was lifted up to an altitude where it was no longer viable as a metropolitan area and was abandoned.

From: Earth In Upheaval, Velikovsky, pp 81-87

Tiahuanaco is a mysterious ancient megalithic city, at 12k feet above sea level, on the Andes Altiplano. Not much is known about the builders and occupants of this city. The city's remains are near lake Titicaca.

-There are the archaeological remains of agricultural terraces, these are common and range up to 18k feet above sea level. These former fields would not be able to grow crops today.
-Lake Titicaca once had a water level that was- 90 feet higher, which would put Tiahuanaco on its shores. There are remains of the former strand line. The strand line is tilted and is in places as much as 360' higher.
-fossils associated with the strand levels are of a modern appearance
-nearby are several enormous salt beds
-Alexander Agassiz in 1875 demonstrated the existence of marine crustacean fauna in Lake Titicaca
-Also on the Altiplano higher than Titicaca is a large dried up lake whose sediments contain the remains of modern mollusks
-While Tiahuanaco is the most impressive, there are remains of other seemingly impossible settlements in the Andes. 13,000 feet above sea level is the remains of a monastery (?) in Peru named Ollantayparubo. The region is presently uninhabitable as it is made of chasms, cliffs, and precipices. Yet the monastery was built of large porphyry blocks 12 to 18 feet high, which came from a quarry seven miles away. How they were transported there and assembled is a mystery. That area too is surrounded by impossible and abandoned agricultural terraces; as well as dried up lakes with tilted shore lines.
-Charles Darwin was impressed with the raised beaches and seashores in Chile at the foot of the Andes Darwin found that the surf line was at 1300 feet. He found it more astounding that the sea shells associated with the raised beaches were still undecayed. There are a few intermediate and distinct surf lines which showed that the mountains rose in several bursts, not gradually.

The foothills of the Andes hide numerous deserted towns and abandoned terraces, monuments to a vanished civilization.
The terraces that go up the slopes of the Andes and reach the eternal snow line and continue under the snow to some unidentified latitude prove that it was not conquerors nor a plague that put the seal of death on gardens and towns.

[moses]

In my theory a planet, probably Mars, approached Earth from the south and the Peratt petroglyphs are a testament to that. As Mars came very close to the Americas from the south huge electrical currents flowed between the planets. This excavated material from Earth but also acted to raise the land where electrical contact occurred.

Thus the Andes and the Rockies were the result of the fly-by of Mars. But this did not have to be a quick fly-by and many effects occurred in other parts of the world with notably the Americas being pulled away somewhat from Europe and Africa causing the sinking of Atlantic lands. Other mountains were likely formed at this time including the Himalayas.

Mo

[Lloyd]

36197

TIAHUANACO PUZZLE CONTINUED

Nick says Tiahuanaco was built at or slightly above sea level, then, in one or more tectonic upheavals, the area was lifted up to an altitude where it was no longer viable as a metropolitan area and was abandoned.

I disagree. I think Bellamy said the population was found buried in flood sediments in gullies nearby and the city was also buried under about 6 feet of the same sediment. So that indicates that the city was not abandoned. It was destroyed by a Flood. There may have been earthquakes during that Flood, which toppled some of the megalithic structures, although flooding alone could have toppled some or all of them too. This Flood would have been later than the Great Flood.

The most likely time that the area was uplifted was in the last months of the Great Flood. That Flood laid down nearly all of the sedimentary rock strata on Earth, as Guy Berthault's experiments and other info explains. Many meteors impacted Earth during the Flood and the largest one, an asteroid at least 40 miles in diameter, impacted just east of Africa and broke up the supercontinent, causing rapid continental drift, opening up the Atlantic and Indian Oceans, as explained at https://www.newgeology.us/. During the rapid continental drift, or sliding, the leading edge of the Americas built up the Rockies and Andes Mountains due to friction. I.e., the underside of the continents accumulated granite or basalt as the sliding slowed down. That would have buckled the sedimentary strata that became mountains. So the Titicaca area was raised up at that time.

After the Great Flood the ocean level must have been as high as Lake Titicaca. That's when Tiahuanaco would have been built and that's why it would have had a large ship harbor in the lake. The lake must have connected to the ocean at that time. The area was a colony of Egypt, according to Bellamy or someone. The city would not likely have remained intact during the uplift, if it had been built before the Andes uplifted. Nick mentioned the agricultural terraces which go up to 18,000 feet. I think Bellamy said they also extend far down the mountainside as well. If the ocean were at 12,000 feet at that time, the highest terraces would have been only 6,000 feet above sea level, so the warm equatorial oceans should have made them warm and productive.

Nick said the strand line of the lake when it was at maximum size is 90 to 360 feet above the present lake level because it's tilted. I think it tilts to the south, and Tiahuanaco is south of the lake about 12 miles so the maximum depth would have been near Tiahuanaco, if my info is right. The lake is 50 miles wide by 120 miles long northwest to southeast, so the tilt must have a slope of about 270 feet per 100 miles or more. I think earthquakes could have caused the tilt. It's only about 1 to 3 feet per mile.

Sea horses and other ocean life in Lake Titicaca indicate that the lake was previously connected to the oceans. Nick says Charles Darwin saw the raised beaches and seashores in Chile at the foot of the Andes and found that the surf line was at 1300[?] feet, along with a few intermediate and distinct surf lines which showed that the mountains rose in several bursts, not gradually. Do you mean 13,000 feet, since Titicaca is at 12,000 feet or so?

Anyway, I disagree. The ocean level likely dropped in several stages, rather than the mountains uplifted in stages. Each strand line would have required that the ocean level was steady at that level for a period of probably a year or more.

Bellamy said the Sun Gate at Tiahuanaco indicates that a smaller moon orbited Earth at that time, so I figured that that moon could have raised ocean levels 12,000 feet. But I don't know why Egypt would not have been submerged if that were the case. JP said an asteroidal body may have been stationed above Tiahuanaco to raise the ocean level there, but I don't know how that would have been possible. Geosynchronous orbit is 22,000 miles, so that might explain it, but I don't know how large the body would need to be. Does anyone know how to calculate it? And it seems unlikely that a body would happen to orbit at just the right altitude. If it wasn't a moon or asteroid that raised the ocean levels, it could have been that the Earth spun faster then, which would have raised the equatorial ocean levels, but Egypt again isn't far from the equator either, so it seemingly would have been submerged, which it wasn't. Looks like JP's solution might be best so far.

Mo mentioned Peratt's idea that the petroglyphs indicate that the intense aurora, which Cardona figured was a Saturn nova event, was seen to the south instead of the north, as per the Saturn Theory, but I don't know if the evidence for that is solid, or equivocal. It seems probable though that the petroglyphs were made at about the time that Tiahuanaco was flooded, i.e. during the Saturn nova event. If petroglyphs are found below the altitude of Titicaca, they would have been made after the ocean level dropped.

[nick c]

Lloyd,

I think Bellamy said the population was found buried in flood sediments in gullies nearby and the city was also buried under about 6 feet of the same sediment. So that indicates that the city was not abandoned. It was destroyed by a Flood. There may have been earthquakes during that Flood, which toppled some of the megalithic structures, although flooding alone could have toppled some or all of them too.

If there is evidence of Tiahuanaco being inundated by the sea then that would have occurred when the city was at or slightly above sea level, possibly as part of the same catastrophe that raised the Altiplano. In other words, there was a tidal wave and then after that, the city was uplifted. Since we are talking about exogenous (to the Earth) forces, probably a planet sized body in close proximity, then the same agent that caused the uplift would have had a catastrophic effect on ocean tides too.

After the Great Flood the ocean level must have been as high as Lake Titicaca. That's when Tiahuanaco would have been built and that's why it would have had a large ship harbor in the lake.

The lake may or may not have been connected to the ocean, or tidal waves may have deposited marine sediment in the lake before the Altiplano was thrust up to its present site, but a "large ship harbor" on Titicaca proves nothing other than that the ancient people used ships on the lake, much as is done today. Lake Titicaca is a big lake and it was even larger in the past; there are several large ships operating on the lake today. See the SS Ollanta

[dren]

There's currently a temple covered by lake Titikaka, as deep as 30m below. Says it dates to the Tiahuanaco people. So the lake level was much lower at some point, either by pure water volume, or the interior of the lake was a lower elevation, or some sort of conjunction of the two. So, we have uplifted parts, and submerged parts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/892616.stm

[Lloyd]

36446

TIAHUANACO BUILT AT SEA LEVEL OR AT 12,000 FEET?

Nick says Tiahuanaco and its large harbor on Lake Titicaca existed near sea level, i.e. present ocean level, and was then flooded before the Andes mountains uplifted.

But the Andes and Rockies surely uplifted during the Great Flood which laid down nearly all of the sedimentary rock strata. The strata were still soft when the mountains formed by folding the strata due to horizontal compression from rapid continental drift. The bends in the strata do not show cracks, which means the strata must have been soft and unlithified when they folded. The rock strata laid down by the Flood would have covered any former structures of civilization. Tiahuanaco is on top of the rock strata, so it had to be built after the rock strata formed and after the Andes uplifted, which was immediately after most of the strata formed from the Flood. So the city and agricultural terraces and the large harbor were built some time after the Great Flood.

Dren mentioned the structures that are now still submerged under Lake Titicaca, which I discussed before as well. Apparently, the Altiplano tilted (as strand lines indicate) due to earthquakes, drowning the structures, then Tiahuanaco was built after that. It was inhabited for some decades to centuries, when another Flood buried the city and its people before the ocean level fell by 12,000 feet to its present level.

Nick, did Darwin see water strand lines at 1300 feet or at 13,000 feet? Since Tiahuanaco is at around 12,000 feet, the strand lines on the Altiplano would have to be near that altitude. But if Darwin didn't go up to the Altiplano, he could have observed strand lines at a lower level. All of those lines can tell us something, but we need more data on them.

PS, here are topographic maps of the Altiplano:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boli ... graphy.png
- http://www2.optics.rochester.edu/workgr ... %20map.jpg

[nick c]

Dren,

I did not know about such a temple. Seemingly, an underwater temple would indicate that the lake surface was much lower.
What is the depth of this temple? where is it located in the lake?
The reason for these questions is that we know that the lake has been tilted from tectonic activity at some point in the past. There are the remains of an ancient shoreline that is tilted with respect to the present surface of the lake. The fact that the strand line is distinct shows that the change was not gradual. The strand line is up to 360 feet higher than the present surface of the lake, but this is a tilt, so if that high point of the strand line is brought down to the present surface of the lake then it stands to reason that the bottom of the other end of the lake would have been brought up toward the surface, and parts of the bottom that are less than 360 feet would have been dry land. Is it possible that the temple could have been submerged as a result of the tilting? Depends on where in the lake it is located and at what depth.

Tiahuanaco, Lake Titicaca, and the Altiplano in general are a fascinating subject. Whatever happened, when, and what was the causal agent is open for debate. But this area which comprises a sizable portion of the South American continent is solid evidence refuting uniformitarian geological interpretations.

[dren]

The BBC article stated it was as deep as 30m in places. It looks like Bolivia is building an underwater museum. The phys.org article states some of the artifacts are older than Tiahuanaco. The museum location is to be close to San Pedro de Tiquina, so I'd say that's the location. That's the straight leading to the south eastern portion of the lake.

https://phys.org/news/2018-07-bolivia-m ... e.html#jCp

The most recent excavations turned up 10,000 artefacts, made from bone, ceramics and metal, cooking utensils, as well as human and animal remains, dating back to the pre-Tiwanaku (before 300 AD), Tiwanaku (300-1100) and Inca (1100-1570) eras.

[nick c]

Dren, thanks for that link.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lloyd,

Nick, did Darwin see water strand lines at 1300 feet or at 13,000 feet? Since Tiahuanaco is at around 12,000 feet, the strand lines on the Altiplano would have to be near that altitude. But if Darwin didn't go up to the Altiplano, he could have observed strand lines at a lower level. All of those lines can tell us something, but we need more data on them.

The strand lines that Darwin observed were at 1, 300 feet (and contained undecayed sea shells) at the foothills of the Andes in Chile. i don't know if he went up to the Altiplano, probably not.
It must be remembered that we are talking about a feature (the Andes Range and the Altiplano) that dominates the South American continent.
My source for that was Earth In Upheaval, pp 81-87 where there are some footnoted Darwin quotes, taken from:

Charles Darwin, Geological Observations on the Volcanic Islands and Parts of South America, Pt II, Chap. 15

The fact that there are former sea shore lines at differing elevations is consistent with the Andes being thrust up in several bursts over a short period of time in geologically recent history.

If one postulates that the sea level was at one time as high as 12K feet then how much of the Earth was dry land? There would only be a few islands here and there; or was the water being held at the equator by planetary sized object? If so how long did that last. Long enough for a culture to build cities and live a life at the tops of mountain islands? Still what happened to all that water? What was the rest of the Earth like?
It seems to me that rapid mountain rising is a much simpler explanation.

Geologists and evolutionists maintain that mountain building is a slow process that takes many millennia. Mountains are uplifted even in mainstream geology, the disagreement is over the time scale. The uniformitarian argument for ever so slow mountain building is that there is no mechanism for rapid mountain building. But that assumes that it is impossible for there to be an external, to the Earth, planet sized agent. Tiahuanaco, other ruins on the Altiplano, and the surrounding fields which are no longer fit to be cultivated; are evidence to the contrary.

There are numerous mythic and cultural testimonies throughout the world, of mountains rising or being moved. Rather than these being metaphorical musings we must consider that in conjunction with physical evidence, these stories may actually be cultural memories of actual events.

[Lloyd]

36563

TIAHUANACO SEQUENCE OF EVENTS

Nick, you say, The fact that there are former sea shore lines at differing elevations is consistent with the Andes being thrust up in several bursts over a short period of time in geologically recent history.

It seems more consistent with the ocean level falling in stages. Mike Fischer's model of rapid continental drift due to a large asteroid impact on the former supercontinent indicates that the mountain ranges formed very quickly all at once, not in stages. He calculated that the continents moved apart in about 26 hours time, just over one day. The near side mountains with respect to the impact, such as the Appalachians, formed in the first few hours by "impulse" and the far side mountains, such as the Andes and Rockies, formed in the last few hours by frictional braking. His model seems more realistic than any other regarding plate tectonics etc.

John Baumgardner's papers show pretty conclusively that the sedimentary rock strata were all laid down in about 6 megasequences, about one megasequence per month for about 5 or 6 months. And they strongly indicate that a large body, like a moon or large asteroid, was on a temporarily elliptical orbit around Earth and that at each perigee the body raised large tsunamis, which removed sediment from the ocean floor, probably around the supercontinental shelf, and deposited much of it onto the supercontinent. And Mike Fischer's findings suggest to me that the asteroid impact that broke up the supercontinent occurred in the last stages of the Great Flood.

That means Tihuanaco had to be built after the Andes were uplifted and the ocean level must have been at the level of Tiahuanaco in order for Lake Titicaca to be salty and to have ocean life and a harbor at Tiahuanaco large enough for a hundred ships. If Titicaca were 500 miles long at that time, there surely weren't enough cities on its borders to accommodate a hundred ships.

If the oceans were piled up around the equator, the higher latitudes north and south would have had more land above sea level. Only the equatorial zone would have had much less land above water. Either a fast orbiting small moon might have been able to keep the equatorial ocean level that high for some centuries, or the Earth may have been spinning faster then, or a small moon in geosynchronous orbit above Tiahuanaco could have kept the ocean level up in that part of the equatorial zone.

You said rapid mountain rising is a much simpler explanation, but we both agree that there was rapid mountain uplift. You say Tiahuanaco was built before the uplift and I say after. If it were built before, then the uplift surely would have destroyed any structures already there. Anyway, anything already there would have been buried under the sedimentary strata deposited by the Great Flood immediately prior to the uplift.

APPARENT SEQUENCE
1. Great Flood
2. Sedimentary Rock Megasequences deposited by Flood
3. Supercontinent Breakup in last stages of Flood
4. Rapid Mountain Formation and Uplift by horizontal compression & folding
5. Equatorial Ocean Uplift
6. Construction & Inhabitance of Tiahuanaco
7. Younger Dryas Flooding of Tiahuanaco centuries after Great Flood
8. Equatorial Sea Level Fall

[moses]

Lloyd
Apparent Sequence:
What you call the great flood.
Laminated deposition of sediment.
No such thing as a supercontinent.
After the great flood a possible period of quieter existence in some stable planetary configuration for a hundred thousand years or more.
The break-up of this configuration.
Mars - Earth interaction producing much uplift and sinking of land.

There are plenty of sources for there being that hundred thousand year period. The only evidence against it is an interpretation of the bible and some isotope figures.

Mo

[Lloyd]

37056

AGE OF CONTINENTS

Mo, zircons that I mentioned before here show that the continents are about 6,000 years old, if I recall right. NewGeology.us and plenty of other evidence shows that the continents were formerly part of a supercontinent.

SUBMERGED ANCIENT RUINS

Most of the datings below are likely not highly accurate and any that indicate ages over 6,000 years are likely most inaccurate of all, since the continents seem to be only that old. The depths of these ruins can give us clues about where the ancient sea levels were. After the Great Flood, about 5,000 years ago, there was likely a North American Ice Sheet which caused the lowering of sea level. If Tiahuanaco was at sea level after the Andes were uplifted, then the equatorial sea level must have been very high (12,000 feet) at the same time as the Ice Sheet.

Saturday, 19 January, 2002, 06:33 GMT
Lost city 'could rewrite history'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1768109.stm
_[INDIA] Marine scientists say archaeological remains discovered 36 metres (120 feet) underwater in the Gulf of Cambay off the western coast of India could be over 9,000 years old.
_The vast city ... is five miles long and two miles wide
_Debris recovered from the site - including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture and human bones and teeth has been carbon dated and found to be nearly 9,500 years old.
_The city is believed to be even older than the ancient Harappan civilisation, which dates back around 4,000 years.

Ancient Submerged Cities: Rethinking Our Ancestry
https://www.ancient-origins.net/unexpla ... try-005319
_[INDIA] [same as above] archeological ruins ... found in waters 120 feet deep in the Gulf of Cabay, located off the western coast of India.
_From the site, they recovered construction material, pottery, sections of walls, basins, sculptures, bones, and human teeth. The carbon tests indicate that these pieces were 9,500 years old.
_Before this finding, anthropologists thought that the area had not seen civilization before 2,500 B.C. This ancient city, therefore, was even older than the Harappan civilization, once believed to be the oldest of the subcontinent.
_[INDIA] in 2004 ... the same tsunami that battered the coasts of Southeast Asia also moved tons of sand from the coast of Tamil Nadu, India. The storm cleared years of dust that led to the discovery of the mythical city of Mahabalipuram.
_Conservative estimates of the age of these constructions range from 1,500 to 1,200 years old, though some investigators say they originate from up to 6,000 years ago.
_[JAPAN] The entire submerged city of Yonaguni is estimated by some to be at least 10,000 years old.
_[U.S.] Another surprising case came in 1967, when the Aluminaut — an exploration submarine capable of submerging deeper than any craft of its day — casually discovered a “road” off the coastal zone of Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina. Found at a depth of nearly 3,000 feet, this road traced a straight line for more than 15 miles.
_Even more surprising, this road had been paved with sophisticated cement composed of aluminum, silicon, calcium, iron, and magnesium.
_Later, scientists exploring the area found a series of monolithic constructions at one end of the road.
_[S.AM.] They realized that the men had rebelled and decided to exterminate them. Thousands of pumas left the cave and devoured the man who begged the devil for help. But the devil remained unmoved by their pleas. Seeing this, Inti, the god of the sun cried. Her tears were so abundant that in forty days the valley was flooded.” — Inca legend of Lake Titicaca

7. LAKE TITICACA’S TEMPLE, PERU
https://earthnworld.com/10-mysterious-u ... ent-world/
_[PERU]

Mysterious Underwater Ruins In Canada And America – Evidence Of An Unknown Ancient Civilization?
https://www.ancientpages.com/2020/09/17 ... ilization/
_[U.S.] archaeologists exploring Lake Huron, one of the five Great Lakes of North America have found traces of an ancient lost civilization that is twice as old as Stonehenge and the Great Pyramids of Egypt. [It's a] 9,000-year-old discovery.
_[U.S.] Artificial Underwater Structures Beneath The Waters Of Rock Lake, Wisconsin
_[CANADA] MacDonald Lake – Ontario’s Lost Civilization
_[CUBA] Cuba's Underwater Pyramids And Sphinxes

Massive Bronze-Age City Discovered Underwater in Greece
https://www.history.com/news/massive-br ... -in-greece
_[GREECE] These include obsidian blades that the researchers say date to the Helladic period (3200 to 2050 B.C.)
_The submerged structures found by the researchers date to around the same time as the pyramids of Giza (built between 2600-2500 B.C.) and the early Minoan settlements on Crete (2700-1200 B.C.), but predate the first great Greek civilization, the Mycenaean (1650-1100 BC), by some 1,000 years.

Huge Ancient Greek City found underwater in the Aegean Sea
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-hi ... sea-003709
_[GREECE] The settlement, which dates back approximately 4,500 years, covers an area of 12 acres and consists of stone defensive structures, paved surfaces, pathways, towers, pottery, tools, and other artifacts.

UPDATED 17 NOVEMBER, 2018 - 19:19 ASHLEY COWIE
Ancient Underwater Ruins Found off the Coast of Spain… Atlantis Again?
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-hi ... is-0011008
_[SPAIN] According to a report in The Daily Mail , Atlantis, is located “north of the city of Cadiz, Andalucía, centered around the Doñana National Park,” which the Merlin Burrows historians “believe was once a vast inland sea.”
_"the age of the finds are older than Roman or Greek, and that they were more advanced.”
_“Laboratory analysis' of material recovered from Spain showed evidence of a type of cement not seen before, as well as ancient advanced metallurgy.” “A greenish blue patina has been found covering some of the ruins which tests have shown is an ancient combination of metals. Plato describes in detail a patina on the buildings and structures of the cities and temples making up this complex,” Akers added.
_Andrea Carpi is a space materials engineer who commented on the tested materials: “We can confirm with certainty that the samples analyzed were the creation of an ancient civilization with advanced construction methods, which makes me believe that we're talking about a civilization with very advanced technology.”
_“The site is spread over 100 miles from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, as to age as yet we have been unable to give a fixed date for the beginning, but its end was at the last Ice Age around 10,000 years ago.”
_Believed to be the oldest city in Europe, the archaeologists said: “The site has both Tartessian, Greek, Phoenician, and Roman additions and our scans show multiple occupations over time till the final and ultimate destruction.”

[moses]

Lloyd, I am now quite happy to accept those 9 or 10 thousand year ago dates. As in major events in the Younger Dryas that produced huge uplift and downfall all around the world. And just before this were the ice ages and before that was a stable planetary configuration lasting tens or hundreds of thousands of years.

The zircons are just not enough compared with the stories of things happening tens of thousands of years ago by various cultures and mystics. Taking tens of thousands of years to produce an advanced world-wide culture feels perfectly acceptable, especially with those large creatures roaming around back then.

So I am accepting the standard datings back to the Younger Dryas events, but no further back. Of course I punt for Velikovsky-type interactions as the cause of the Younger Dryas events. Everything falls into place.

Mo

[nick c]

I remember reading something by Cardona, that Ralph Juergens was the first to suggest that Saturn was a degenerate brown dwarf, that is a brown dwarf that was captured by the Sun.
Actually In WIC (1950) p.373, Velikovsky suggested the same thing although he did not use the term "brown dwarf" (since the term did not exist in 1950).

Also, some dark star, like Jupiter or Saturn, may be in the path of the sun, and may be attracted to the system and cause havoc in it.

Well I have digressed.
Does anyone know where Ralph Juergens suggested that Saturn was originally a brown dwarf that was captured by the Sun?

[Brigit]

by nick c » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:44 am

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes

Following Sherlock Holmes' advice, I conclude that the truth of Tiahuanaco, is that the city was built at some time in the past at or slightly above sea level then, in one or more tectonic upheavals, the city was lifted up to an altitude where it was no longer viable as a metropolitan area and was abandoned.

Did Velikovsky suggest that the mountains were folded relatively rapidly by plate tectonics? Or is there another cause of rapid uplift he had in mind?