Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:53 pm

247846

I'm watching a video that I hope to comment on here shortly.

Lloyd
Posts: 5413
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:41 am

247856

MEGALITHIC STRUCTURES BEFORE THE GREAT FLOOD?

This is the video I just saw.
The Mysterious Geological Origin of Ancient Structures || On the Origin of Stones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-9RKCslMM

I left a long comment under the video, but it looks like it was removed.

The author says many megalithic structures were built with inorganic rock, which seems to be defined as pre-Flood rock. That rock was not sedimentary. Since sedimentary rock was deposited during and somewhat after the Great Flood, structures built after the Flood would tend to be sedimentary, while those built before would tend to be inorganic. Pre-Flood rock is homogenous, while post-Flood rock contains fossils and conglomerate material etc. She shows that Mount Everest has sedimentary rock on top of inorganic rock.

She says that on the Great Pyramid there are crustations attached to the surface of many of the blocks, apparently from a Great Flood, but the internal contents have no fossils or other additional material. However, I think the Giza Plateau consists of sedimentary rock, so the pyramids must have been built after the Flood. If the blocks forming the pyramids are made from inorganic rock, the blocks must have been quarried from an inorganic source. The first 5 megasequences of sedimentary rock were likely deposited as water levels were rising via tsunamis, but the 6th megasequence was deposited as waters were receding, thus eroding parts of the previous megasequences down. On 20% or so of the continental surfaces, the sediments were eroded away completely, thus exposing the underlying inorganic rock. This map https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Gu ... y-2012.jpg shows the locations where sediments were eroded away; they're in brown, called pre-cambrian shield. They're in central and eastern Canada, much of the area around Brazil, many parts of Africa, west Australia, central India, part of the Himalayas etc. The Egyptians could have gotten pre-sedimentary rock from Ethiopia, or even Saudi Arabia.

The video author discusses structures carved into bedrock which she says are inorganic, but even if they are, they could have been built after the Great Flood. The same would apply to cart wheel ruts in inorganic rock.

She suggests that there was a cataclysm centuries before the Great Flood which affected one third of the Earth and I think she bases that partly on the Book of Jasher, which is a book apparently wrongly removed from the Bible. I think there's good evidence for numerous claims of the Bible, such as the Exodus and Noah's Ark and Jesus et al, but also many parts seem to be compatible with the Saturn Theory etc. My online book, CATACLYSMIC EARTH HISTORY, at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/cataclys ... th-history, covers a lot of that stuff.

Initially, I thought her video may have proved that there are megalithic structures that were built before the Great Flood, but after thinking it over, it now seems less likely, but still I guess there's a pretty good chance. Another possibility is that the homogeneous inorganic blocks of the pyramids were made from sedimentary rock via advanced tech of some kind. But I consider that unlikely at this point.

Lloyd
Posts: 5413
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:25 am

248123

RANDALL CARLSON ON SOME MYTHOLOGY

Ep084 Grail Quest Serpents Dragons FireStorms Draco FireBalls Hathor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-gYTWS4qic

I have a draft of a post containing most of the images from Randall's video.
It's at https://lenkinder.substack.com/p/randal ... -mythology .

Most of the images are from the last thousand years or so, I think, but one or more goes back to ancient Egypt.

It's amazing how recent mythology seems to carry over from ancient mythology.

I don't know if I'll have time to write anything up for that post, but at least the images are interesting. And Randall seems to be learning some mythology and piecing together some insights. Hopefully, he'll discover the Saturn Theory before long.

Lloyd
Posts: 5413
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:06 pm

248453

FLOOD & PRE_FLOOD CATACLYSMS?

I found lately that speechtexter.com has improved a lot since I last used it some months ago. It now stores lots of text without deleting it, whereas it previously only stored a few lines and then deleted it before adding more text. So this improvement makes it more practical to transcribe videos and audio. So here's a big transcript of a video I discussed here recently from the Shattered History channel. I may add subtitles to the transcript later to make it easier to find the numerous topics discussed. It's exciting that microscopy is being used more in geology and paleontology and archeology to help determine which rocks came from where and how they were formed etc. That's what has apparently allowed the author to make some of the incredible conclusions listed below. I'm not convinced that all of her conclusions are correct, but they certainly seem worth investigating much further. I expect I'll edit and post this on my Substack/s before long.

The Mysterious Geological Origin of Ancient Structures || On the Origin of Stones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-9RKCslMM&t=19s
_The study of archaeology has been long hindered by a series of consequential misunderstandings. The promoted narrative about ancient cultures and their creations are not as accurate as academia wants you to believe. The details regarding when these structures were made, who made them, how they were built, and for what purpose have been largely misinterpreted. And the reason for this is because the truth is contrary to the promoted narrative of history. In order to understand the real origins of these ancient structures, we must study them from the ground up, both figuratively and literally.
_It is crucial to fully analyze the material that these structures were made from. And if the material that they're made from has been misidentified, which is the case for an astonishing amount of ancient structures, then that fundamentally changes our interpretation of their origins. To understand the compositions of these ancient structures, it's necessary to examine the types of rocks that exist on Earth currently.
_Earth's geology varies greatly in appearance and composition. Among the most notable geological formations on the surface of the Earth include the Grand Canyon in Arizona, which is made of dozens of colorful layers of sedimentary rocks, including limestone, sandstone, and shale. Then there's the 12 Apostles off the coast of Australia, which are large pillars of organic limestone made from the compacted remains of calciumcarbonate-rich organisms. Mount Everest in Nepal is composed of a combination of igneous rocks, inorganic sedimentary rocks, and organic sedimentary rocks, which contain fossils of marine organisms. In Utah here's the Bryce Canyon and the Arches National Park, both of which are made of stratified sandstone in a stunning variety of colors. The Rainbow Basin in California is made of an interesting variety of rocks, including the igneous rock, quartz monzonite, as well as volcaniclastic supplements and volcanic ash. And there were countless other intricate geological formations across the world which had been formed from a variety of complex processes.
_Sedimentary rocks are commonly formed from the deposition and compaction of layers of sand, silt, and, in the case of organic sedimentary rocks, the remains of plants and animals. Igneous rocks are formed from tectonic activity which causes minerals to melt, and upon cooling they {develop?} other distinctive features. The vast majority of rocks are stratified, fully heated and contain other erratic characteristics such as clas{tic?} fossils and dropstones. And I know {this?} study is that ancient stone structures are not made of any of the previously mentioned types of stone, despite the abundance of clastic and stratified rocks across the earth, as well as the visual appeal of these more intricate types of rocks and their suitability for stone masonry.
_In this video, we're going to be exploring the different types of materials that have been used for construction throughout history, and the significance of each of them as they apply to the timeline of megalithic construction and major events throughout Earth's history. In the early and sagent{?} structures, only inorganic rocks have been used as a building material. Inorganic rock is different from organic rocks because the inorganic rock is simply composed of lithified minerals and does not contain the remains of once living organisms. Examination of these structures reveals that they are ____all made of inorganic rock, primarily inorganic limestone and unstratified sandstone. No organic materials such as fossils or corals are found within the original rocks that were used to build the structures, and this is notable given the rarity of inorganic limestone compared to organic limestone, as geological features that currently exist. An example of an ancient structure made of inorganic limestone is the Hypogeum of Malta. Previously, the structure had been erroneously identified as being composed of organic limestone, which was referred to as Globigerina limestone, due to the abundance of Globigerina limestone in the surrounding area. When the Hypogeum was originally constructed, however, Globigerina limestone was not able to be used as a building material, because school-of-Adrena{Globigerina?} limestone was not present anywhere, since the conditions that form Globigerina, or any other type of organic or stratified sedimentary rocks, had not yet occurred. There is no geological evidence {that} the rocks composing the Hypogeum of Malta are made from any organic materials. Through petrographic microscopy, only the currently existing Globigerina limestone on the coast of Malta has been confirmed to be composed of organic material. No tests have indicated that the {Hypogeum?} rocks consist of organic materials.
_Globigerina limestone and other types of organic sedimentary rocks were created during the Second Ancient Cataclysm, also known as the worldwide flood, when there was a mass extinction of marine and other life, which accumulated, compacted and lithified rapidly due to the force and hydrostatic pressure of the very deep waters. The floodwaters were also heated and mineral-rich, due to the {cold occurring??} worldwide tectonic activities, contributing to more rapid lithification of organic materials during the cataclysm. Only structures created after the worldwide flood were able to be made from the rocks that were created by the flood. There are many more ancient pre-cataclysmic structures, in addition to the Hypogeum of Malta, that were made from inorganic pre-cataclysmic rocks, and these structures will be examined later in this video. But before then it's important to discuss the other types of products that were used to build ancient structures and the origins of those rocks. This way you'll have a better understanding of the types of materials that {you should??} builders did and did not use and when the different types of building materials were used.
_Prior to the worldwide Cataclysm, there was a first smaller catastrophe which flooded 1/3 of the Earth. During this first {stage?} cataclysm, which initiated the breakup of the supercontinent Pangea, there were intense tectonic activities that set off volcanoes worldwide. So that even during this first smaller catastrophe, large amounts of igneous rocks were formed, including granite and basalt. These igneous rocks had not been available on the surface of the Earth for ancient builders to construct with before the 1st catastrophe. Volcaniclastic materials such as tuff were also created by the 1st Catastrophe, due to the copious amounts of ash emitted from the widespread volcanic eruptions. This enabled ancient builders after the first catastrophe to build structures out of the lithified volcanic ash. The formation of {top??} was explained in depth in the previous video on this channel about the Malta cart ruts, where we had explored some tracks that had been left by ancient people as they traversed through the dense mounds of volcanic ash during the first catastrophe. And these tracks were preserved when the volcanic ash lithified.
_An ancient text, known as Sefer HaYashar or the Book of Jasher, explains that the first catastrophe occurred as a warning from God to convince the inhabitants of Earth to stop doing immoral things constantly. And the Lord caused the waters of the river Gihon to overwhelm them, and he destroyed and consumed them. And he destroyed the third part of the earth. And notwithstanding this, the sons of men did not turn from their evil ways, and their hands were yet extended to do evil in the sight of the Lord. And every man made unto himself a god. And they robbed and plundered every man his neighbor, as well as his relative. And they corrupted the earth, and the earth was filled with violence. And the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field, and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord. And God saw the whole earth, and that it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, both man and all animals. And aside from humans and animals being corrupt, there were other creatures also doing corrupt things, which in many cases were worse than what the humans were doing, and those creatures needed to be eradicated as well. After the first warning catastrophe, God instructed Noah and Methuselah to warn everyone that he would give them 120 years to correct their behaviors. And if the corrupt people did not correct their behaviors, God would have to wipe the entire world clean with a cataclysm in order to eliminate their corruption. And after the lapse of many years, and the 480th year of the life of Noah, when all those men who followed the Lord had died away from amongst the sons of men, ... only Methuselah was then left. God said unto Noah and Methuselah saying, Speak ye, and proclaim to the sons of men, saying, Thus sayeth the Lord. Return from your evil ways, and forsake your works, and the Lord will dismiss the punishment that he declared be due to you, so that it shall not come to pass. For thus sayeth the Lord, Behold, I give you a period of 120 years. If you will turn to me and forsake your evil ways, then I will also turn away from the punishment which I told you, {so} it shall not exist, sayeth the Lord. But the sons of men would not hearken to them, nor incline their ears to their words, and they were stiff-necked. And the Lord granted them a period of 120 years, saying, If they will return, then will God dismiss their punishment, so as to not destroy the earth.
_Instead of taking Noah and Methuselah's advice to correct their behaviors, so that God would not have to reset the world, the corrupt individuals on Earth instead began to prepare for the worldwide catastrophe by creating shelters, in the hopes of preserving themselves and their wicked culture, so that they could continue on with their corruption. The tectonic activity during the first warning catastrophe lasted for an extended period of time. And as the tectonic activity continued, leading up to the worldwide flood, the intrusive igneous rocks formed beneath the Earth's surface were pushed to the surface of the Earth, eventually becoming available for ancient builders to construct. Enough time to do so, because there was a gap of 120 years between the first warning catastrophe and the 2nd catastrophe, known as the worldwide flood.
_The geology of numerous geological features across the world can be used to demonstrate the order in which the various types of rocks were formed. One example is the geology of Mount Everest. The center of the mountain range is composed of inorganic limestone which does not contain any fossils. The top portion of the mountain range, on the other hand, is composed of organic limestone, which contains many fossils, notably marine fossils. This arrangement indicates that the inorganic limestone base had existed first, and marine sediments were deposited and compacted on top of this inorganic limestone. Beneath the inorganic limestone, there's a foundation of granite. Granite is an intrusive igneous rock that was formed beneath the surface of the Earth and pushed upwards towards the Earth's surface by further tectonic activities. The same geological pattern is present in the composition of other mountain ranges worldwide, including the Teton Range in Wyoming, and the {Golden-Heyman??} range in Norway and Sweden. The Ural mountain range dividing Europe and Asia contains numerous granitic batholiths and stocks within greater igneous intrusions, as well as the original inorganic basement rock. The carboniferous organic sedimentary rock is only present above the inorganic basement rock and the igneous rock, meaning that the organic sedimentary rocks were deposited on top of the inorganic basement rock and the igneous rock. The regions in which large amounts of granite were utilized by ancient builders indicates where the most volcanic activities had been during the existence of the first catastrophe, which made igneous rocks available for use in construction. Ancient structures made of granite include the Barabar Caves in India, the granite outcropping containing the unfinished obelisk in Egypt, and the Vettuvan Koil and Hampi Temples in India. There are also many ancient structures made of the extrusive igneous rock basalt, including the low profile rock-cut church in Ethiopia, the Kailasa temple and the Ellora and Ajanta cave structures in India.
_During the first cataclysm, some rocks were manipulated by heat and pressure. Granitic gneiss{?} is an example of a metamorphic rock that was used in some ancient constructions between the 1st and 2nd catastrophes. Granitic gneiss is granite that has been heated and warped, causing the crystal grains in the rock to become distorted. Granitic gneiss contains stripes of differently colored minerals, and these stripes are called gneissic banding. Although gneissic banding looks similar to stratified sandstone, the process that creates gneissic banding is caused by intense pressure and heat, which causes the crystals in the rock to align into bands. It's crucial to understand the processes which create each type of rock, and to be able to correctly identify these materials. The misidentification of rocks gives us an entirely incorrect understanding of the material's history, the types of processes that contributed to the formation of the material, as well as the environment in which it was formed. In terms of archaeology, whether these rocks are correctly identified is foundational to either our understanding or misunderstanding of how and when these structures were built.
_A team of geologists went to Sacsayhuaman in Peru to analyze the composition of the rocks used to build the structure. At the location that was believed to be the quarry for Sacsayhuaman, the geologist took thin sections of the rocks, and the rocks from the assumed quarry site were found to be full of small fossils, indicating that the rocks were organic, having been made {partly} from the remains of organisms. When the geologist took thin sections of the Sacsayhuaman rocks, however, they found that the rocks composing Sacsayhuaman were uniform in composition and appearance and they lacked any organic matter, revealing that the Sacsayhuaman rocks are inorganic and nonclastic. The mineral composition of the Sacsayhuaman rocks is the same as inorganic limestone and they are not igneous rocks, though there is evidence of contact metamorphic folds, indicating that they had been subject to high heat at some point in the past, but they have not been fully metamorphosed. The geologists confirmed that the rocks composing Sacsayhuaman are inorganic limestone. There is no evidence to indicate that the site containing organic limestone rocks was where the ancient builders had acquired the stones to build Sacsayhuaman, and this was only an assumption before the rocks were analyzed. In fact, these organic rocks were not even created until after Sacsayhuaman was built, because Sacsayhuaman was built before the worldwide flood, which created the other organic rocks, which are not a part of the Sacsayhuaman structure. A large boulder near the Sacsayhuaman wall, which is partially buried and was clearly carved and used by the ancient builders, was also examined by geologists and they found that this rock was also uniform in composition and lacked any organic materials, meaning that this rock too, which appears to have been carved by the same group that built Sacsayhuaman, is also entirely inorganic in composition. Comparing this scenario with the Hypogeum of Malta, which was discussed earlier in the video, it was assumed that the ancient builders had used Globigerina limestone quarried from the coast of Malta, simply because Globigerina limestone is found in abundance in Malta, now mainly on the coast. But much like the stones that were found at the assumed quarry site for Sacsayhuaman, the Globigerina limestone found on the coast of Malta does not have the same characteristics as the rocks used to build the Hypogeum.
_Unfortunately, once rocks have been labeled, it's generally accepted without further questioning. This makes it so that rocks can be misidentified by geologists and, unless there is an important reason to question their identification, they will continue to be referred to as the incorrect type of rock. This is especially true in regard to certain types of rocks that look very similar to one another, but have different compositions and methods of formation. For example, quartz monzonite is commonly mistaken for granite, because these two types of rock are so similar in appearance. Another type of rock, known as arkose, which is the type of sandstone, has an appearance and mineral composition similar to the igneous rock granite. Both arkose and granite are composed primarily of quartz and feldspar with small amounts of mica. Arkose even comes in the same colors as granite, with the most common varieties of arkose being the same shades of pink and gray, as the most common types of grain in the crystal size and texture. Of these, two types of rocks are the primary indication of their identity, with granite having larger crystals that are tightly fit together, while arkose has smaller and less dense crystals.
_Keeping the properties of these rocks in the ways that they're formed in mind, as well as the fact that rocks are often misidentified, and the fact that many ancient structures such as Sacsayhuaman and the Hypogeum were falsely assumed to have been made from rocks that are currently in the area, which do not have the same characteristics as those structures, we can now observe the materials that were used to build other ancient structures, and observe that they too may have been misidentified. One example is the stones that were used to build the polygonal wall on Hatun Rumiyoc Street in Cusco, Peru. The ancient polygonal walls, consisting of the well known 12-angled stone, has been identified as green diorite. Several factors indicate that, rather than being green diorite, these rocks are actually another type of stone called glauconite . The color of the ancient walls in Cusco are a solid pale green, not the dark spackled green that green diorite is. The grain size of the polygonal stones are smaller than that of green diorite, but it's consistent with the green size of glauconite. The luster of the polygonal walls is also very dull. Green diorite has a semiglossy luster due to the presence of crystalline grains and green diorite, whereas glauconite has a dull luster, matching the luster of the Cusco walls. These polygonal walls appear to be composed of glauconite and not green diorite, as they had previously been labeled. The point of mentioning this is that we have to be alert to potential discrepancies in the identification of these rocks. And because the materials that many of these ancient structures are made from have been misidentified, then this limits our ability to understand how these structures were built and even when they were made.
_As explained earlier, the second cataclysm, which is known historically by many cultures as the worldwide Flood, created the organic sedimentary rocks such as chalk, called diatomic in some forms of dolomites and organic limestones. The majority of metamorphic rocks on Earth were also created during the second catastrophe, the worldwide flood, due to the intensity and wide range of the tectonic activity, which was even greater than that during the first catastrophe. And the floodwaters that were present during the second catastrophe were deep, mineral-rich and high-temperature, exerting an abundance of hydrostatic pressure on already existing rocks. After the second catastrophe, the survivors were able to use the newly-formed flood-made rocks, including organic sedimentary rocks such as coralline limestone, as well as the stratified rocks that were created when layers of sediment were deposited, compacted and lithified during the worldwide flood.
_Evidence of previous saturation with mineral-rich floodwaters in the past can be observed in the form of mineral stains on the surface of many pre-cataclysmic structures. These mineral stains were caused by a combination of calcium carbonate deposition, when the structures had been saturated with calcium-carbonate-rich floodwaters, leaving white stains on the rock, and the catalyzed oxidation of iron on the surface of the stone, due to prolonged saturation within pure water, creating that discolored bands on the rock. Ancient structures, such as the Badami caves in India and Petra in Jordan, have rings of calcium carbonate and iron oxide deposits, called liesegang rings, created by the chemical segregation of iron oxides and other minerals during weathering. There are also vertical mineral stains on the exterior of many of the ancient structures, which were left by mineral-rich water running down the structures. The liesegang rings were formed due to minerals being left by precipitation reactions, as the floodwaters evaporated, comparable to the processes that create mineral stains on ceilings and modern buildings after flooding. Although it may seem that these ancient structures are made of stratified rock, these rocks are not stratified. The stripes on the rock were only caused by discoloration from staining that occurred after the structures were built. The structures of Petra were built from red sandstone. Now this is unstratified and does not contain fossils. But on top of and surrounding the red sandstone that contains the Petra structures, there are deposits of white sandstone, that have been compacted. These deposits of white sandstone are stratified and do contain fossils. The team had found white sand in a valley exclusively of red rock. {But they uncovered was that??} These massive beds of a very white sandstone {that??} would lead us to conclude that Petra may have literally been hit by a massive, massive flood. During both ancient catastrophes, especially the second worldwide catastrophe, many ancient structures were damaged due to scattering by debris, weathering and the deposition of flood-carried settlements onto and around the structures.
_Post worldwide flood societies across the world discovered these pre-cataclysmic structures and they excavated them, repaired them and appropriated them. Many of these pre-flood structures have been repaired even more recently, especially during the 1800s. The apple symbol structure in Egypt, for example, was originally created before the 2nd ancient catastrophe known as the Worldwide Flood, which was initially made from unstratified sandstone. The structure now appears to be stratified, however, due to the methods that were recently used to reconstruct Abu Simbel, when the entire structure was relocated between 1968 and 1979. The way in which the statues have been dismantled and reassembled left marks similar in appearance to stratifications. However, these markings are simply due to the stone being cut horizontally and the gaps being filled in with mortar upon reconstruction. The other types of discoloration on the Abu Simbel structure are a result of mineral staining, comparable to the mineral staining visible on other ancient structures, such as Petra. Although Abu Symbel appears to be a pre-cataclysmic structure containing stratifications, it actually has been altered from its original appearance and even altered from its original composition, with mortar now filling the recently-carved spaces, that were not originally present. Another example of pre-cataclysmic structures that have been heavily modified during recent reconstruction are the Tarxien temples in Malta. Smaller rectangular blocks of stone can be seen, added to sections of the temple, that had once been decimated by the second catastrophe, as opposed to the original megaliths, used by pre-cataclysmic builders, which fit together snugly and are well-carved. The reconstructed sections are easy to identify, because the stones used are either poorly carved, or completely uncarved, and some of the stones fit together so poorly, that mortar had to be used to hold them together. Regular repairs are still necessary to prevent the reconstructed sections from falling apart, while the original parts of the structure do not require the same maintenance. Pre-cataclysmic structures did not need mortar at all.
_The same type of post-catastrophe repairs can be seen in many other ancient structures across the world. The Mandapeshwar temple in India, for example, was initially made from solid granite stone, which indicates that it was constructed after the first catastrophe. The top portion of the structure was heavily damaged during the second catastrophe, leading to repairs after the worldwide flood. These repairs were made using smaller stone blocks, many of which are crudely carved and are held together by mortar, starkly contrasting with the original parts of the structure. The Hampi temples in India were also significantly damaged during the worldwide flood. Repair attempts to the Hampi temples have gathered the scattered remnants of the structures, haphazardly restacking the stones. Unlike the preflop builders, modern rebuilders have difficulty working with megaliths. Smaller stones were therefore used when repairing the damaged structures whenever possible, in conjunction with poorly restacking the original megaliths. This trend can be seen in almost every repaired pre-flood {so?? or structure?}.
_Although it can be difficult to identify when some structures have been heavily modified and rebuilt, no pre-cataclysmic structures are made from stratified rock composed of layers of lithified sediment. The reason why there are no pre-cataclysmic structures made from stratified rock is because the conditions had not yet occurred to create stratified rock, at least not in enough abundance to use for construction. The large masses of stratified rock that are present across the world currently were created with large amounts of sediment and debris were transported, deposited into layers and compacted during the worldwide flood. No fossils are present inside of the stone blocks composing any present acoustic structures. You will just{??} have discovered small marine fossils on the surface of some of the stone blocks composing the Great Pyramids of Giza. Despite fossils being found on the surface of the blocks, no fossils have actually been found embedded inside of any of the pyramid blocks. They are only attached to the surface, meaning that the organism, which appears to be a marine creature, called an echinoid, was deposited onto the stone block after it was carved. This implies that seawater with echinoids in it had passed over the Great Pyramids after they were built, and the echinoid was fossilized without burial due to the immense hydrostatic pressure which was exerted by the extremely deep and mineral-rich floodwaters. The only fossils in the area that have been discovered embedded inside of rocks were found in the neighboring region surrounding the Great Pyramids, but these rocks were never used to build the pyramids themselves. But the fossils in the rocks found near the Great Pyramids are clearly embedded inside of the rocks, which indicates that these fossils were intermixed with sediment during the flood, and the conglomerate became cemented and lithified during the process and during the marine organisms intermix with the sediment in the fossils.
_There are a few stone structures across the world that do contain fossils. However, there are clear signs that these crude structures were built after the worldwide flood, and these structures were made from rocks that were created by the Flood. The Long Barrow in England is one example. A stone on the left side of the entrance contains a fossilized area {with} ammonite. This creature became encased in sediment and was compacted and lithified during the worldwide flood. Upon lithification, this fossil-bearing rock was carried by the floodwaters and deposited among softer, less-compacted sediment, which remained dirt. Post flood people created a borough in the dirt using the rock already present in the soil as a support for the structure, leaving the large stone where it was, because they didn't have access to the stone-lifting technology required to move it. As most of the stone-lifting technology was destroyed during the worldwide flood, the post-flood builders had stacked smaller stones alongside and between the large rocks as additional supports for the structure. The structure was simply built around the large rocks that were created and deposited by the flood. No aspect of the Long Barrow in England indicates that the structure was created before the worldwide flood.
_It is rather rare to find geological formations that are flawless or non-clastic in geological terms. Even small rocks generally have veins, specks, clasts, stratifications, foliation, or other types of visual flaws. Modern structures made of natural stone contain these types of visual flaws, whereas pre-flood structures not made of igneous rock do not. An example of a modern structure made from large stones is the Coral Castle in Florida. The megaliths composing the structure are made of organic oolitic limestone, which is made from coral and shells. Although this type of rock is clearly suitable as a building material, no pre-flood structures were ever made from this type of rock.
_Originally, before the worldwide flood and before the smaller catastrophe that preceded that, there were only inorganic rocks and they were uniform in appearance. They did not contain fossils, stratifications, or any other type of clasts, or defects. This is because the original rocks on Earth were not created by the accumulation of sediment, nor were they created by volcanic activity. They were created by God, which is why they were perfect. These original rocks include the non-stratified and non-clastic inorganic limestone and sandstone that pre-flood structures were built with. During the first cataclysm on Earth, which was the smaller of the two ancient catastrophes, the first igneous and metamorphic rocks on Earth were made available by the tectonic activities. After the first Cataclysm, the ancient builders took advantage of the newly available igneous and metamorphic rocks and used them to create structures. Eventually, the second, larger catastrophe occurred, which involved worldwide tectonic activity and flooding. This devastating and widespread destruction created stratified and organic sedimentary rocks, as the extensive and immense flooding wiped out the majority of life on earth, and compacted the sediment and organic matter into the organic limestone that can be found across the world in large quantities now. The worldwide flood also created the vast majority of metamorphic rocks on Earth, due to rocks and minerals being subjected to high heat, high hydrostatic pressure and hot mineral-rich waters. These are the causes of metamorphism and are also the catalysts of fossilization, under the exact conditions created by the worldwide flood.
_Thank you to those who have supported Shattered History through Patreon and through YouTube. Super thanks.

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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by nick c » Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:32 am

Lloyd wrote:it now seems less likely, but still I guess there's a pretty good chance. Another possibility is that the homogeneous inorganic blocks of the pyramids were made from sedimentary rock via advanced tech of some kind. But I consider that unlikely at this point.
The Pyramids were built of mostly of limestone and some granite. Most of the limestone was quarried right on the Giza plateau. The limestone used for the facing was quarried at Tura, because that limestone had a desired white color. The granite was quarried at Aswan, at around 679 miles south of Giza and transported to Giza by barge.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:10 pm

Nick, here's what Shattered History said on the subject.
_Although it can be difficult to identify when some structures have been heavily modified and rebuilt, no pre-cataclysmic structures are made from stratified rock composed of layers of lithified sediment. The reason why there are no pre-cataclysmic structures made from stratified rock is because the conditions had not yet occurred to create stratified rock, at least not in enough abundance to use for construction. The large masses of stratified rock that are present across the world currently were created with large amounts of sediment and debris were transported, deposited into layers and compacted during the worldwide flood. No fossils are present inside of the stone blocks composing any present acoustic structures. You will just{??} have discovered small marine fossils on the surface of some of the stone blocks composing the Great Pyramids of Giza. Despite fossils being found on the surface of the blocks, no fossils have actually been found embedded inside of any of the pyramid blocks. They are only attached to the surface, meaning that the organism, which appears to be a marine creature, called an echinoid, was deposited onto the stone block after it was carved. This implies that seawater with echinoids in it had passed over the Great Pyramids after they were built, and the echinoid was fossilized without burial due to the immense hydrostatic pressure which was exerted by the extremely deep and mineral-rich floodwaters. The only fossils in the area that have been discovered embedded inside of rocks were found in the neighboring region surrounding the Great Pyramids, but these rocks were never used to build the pyramids themselves. But the fossils in the rocks found near the Great Pyramids are clearly embedded inside of the rocks, which indicates that these fossils were intermixed with sediment during the flood, and the conglomerate became cemented and lithified during the process and during the marine organisms intermix with the sediment in the fossils.
So, do you know if anyone has determined if the pyramid blocks contain fossils and other impurities? Shattered History seems to say they don't. I don't know what her sources are.
She also claims there is some pure sandstone and limestone that were formed before the Flood, but I don't know how they could have formed without a Flood. Mike Fischer says a lot of CO2 in the air went into the formation of a lot of the limestone as atmospheric pressure was falling due to loss of atmosphere.

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nick c
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by nick c » Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:38 pm

Lloyd wrote:So, do you know if anyone has determined if the pyramid blocks contain fossils and other impurities? Shattered History seems to say they don't. I don't know what her sources are.
No, I do not know of any source for that. In my opinion the Pyramids were built long after there was any flooding of the proportions required to give the stated effect. If there were any marine encrustations found on the Pyramids (and I don't know that there were, sources?) it is possible that those deposits were on the stones before they were put into the Pyramid structure.

There is no question about the source of the Pyramid stones, the quarries still exist today, and the stones are easily matched to those quarries. I think it is amazing that the Aswan Granite was transported almost 700 miles via Nile river boats to Giza. These stones ranged from 2 to 80 tons in weight.

Ginenthal in Pillars of the Past cites the work of Dr, Schoch, a Boston University geologist, who determined that the Pyramids show no signs of water erosion, but only have aeolic (wind) erosion. In contrast, Schoch demonstrated that Sphinx and its related temple do show signs of water erosion, probably from torrential rains, which indicates that the Sphinx is much older than the Pyramids and was constructed before the Sahara desert was formed and the climate at Giza was very different than the time of Pyramid construction. Note that mainstream Egyptology does not dispute the absence of water erosion on the Pyramids and its presence on the Sphinx but rather opt for the lame explanation that Sphinx' and its temple's water erosion was the result of water percolating up from the water table beneath. The problem with this is why did this process selectively affect the Sphinx and its temple? and yet the Pyramids and their associated buildings did not suffer erosion from the same process?

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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:35 am

248603

PYRAMID STONES SOURCES
Nick said: In my opinion the Pyramids were built long after there was any {major} flooding.... If there were any marine encrustations found on the Pyramids (and I don't know that there were, sources?) it is possible that those deposits were on the stones before they were put into the Pyramid structure. There is no question about the source of the Pyramid stones, the quarries still exist today, and the stones are easily matched to those quarries. I think it is amazing that the Aswan Granite was transported almost 700 miles via Nile river boats to Giza. These stones ranged from 2 to 80 tons in weight.
Do you have info on how the pyramid stones were matched to quarries? The Shattered History video showed an echinoid fossil on the surface of a pyramid block. Too bad she didn't mention any study that found that the interiors of the blocks have no fossils or impurities. It seems certain that the pyramids were flooded, though maybe not totally submerged. If I go back through my posts, I can probably find one or more that mentioned that someone found that the Great Pyramid has salt encrustation at least as high as the King's chamber and the salt is thicker farther down, like in the Queen's chamber (apparently contradicted below). It appears that flood waters covered the pyramids over halfway up long enough for salt to invade the blocks and the water level fell but stayed at a lower level even longer, till it finally drained completely.
_Here's A.I.'s 2 cents:
_The King’s Chamber in the Great Pyramid is known for a mysterious salt encrustation on its walls. This salt buildup was up to half an inch thick in places. The salt was also found along the Horizontal Passage and in the lower portion of the Grand Gallery. The origin of this salt buildup remains one of the greatest mysteries of the King’s Chamber1.
1. https://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/su ... g-vonk.htm
_The Queen’s Chamber in the Great Pyramid also has a mysterious salt encrustation on its walls1. This salt buildup was up to half an inch thick in places1. The chamber is made entirely of beautifully finished limestone blocks with a gabled ceiling2. ... The origin of this salt buildup remains one of the greatest mysteries of the Queen’s Chamber1.
1. https://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/su ... g-vonk.htm
2. https://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/queenschambergp/
Nick said: Ginenthal in Pillars of the Past cites the work of Dr, Schoch, a Boston University geologist, who determined that the Pyramids show no signs of water erosion, but only have aeolic (wind) erosion. In contrast, Schoch demonstrated that Sphinx and its related temple do show signs of water erosion, probably from torrential rains, which indicates that the Sphinx is much older than the Pyramids and was constructed before the Sahara desert was formed and the climate at Giza was very different than the time of Pyramid construction. Note that mainstream Egyptology does not dispute the absence of water erosion on the Pyramids and its presence on the Sphinx but rather opt for the lame explanation that Sphinx' and its temple's water erosion was the result of water percolating up from the water table beneath. The problem with this is why did this process selectively affect the Sphinx and its temple? and yet the Pyramids and their associated buildings did not suffer erosion from the same process?
The Ancient Architects video channel had some videos showing that Schoch was likely wrong in dating the Sphinx much older than the Pyramids. By the way, the Pyramids had casing stones on the exterior, which may have lessened erosion. The Sahara Desert likely formed after the Great Flood of c. 3300 BC and the structures were likely made after that too. However, Shattered History is casting doubt on that, I think suggesting that the Pyramids pre-dated the Flood. I've concluded though that there were at least 3 great Floods, so it's not like any of this is set in stone. I may get around to posting the Shattered History transcript on my Substack before long. If so, it will be a task, if I bother to post some of the pics from the video, which I feel almost obligated to do.

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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:11 am

428623

I posted the Shattered History video transcript now at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... structures . Near the end, I discovered that she seems to subscribe to Walter Brown's old Hydroplate Theory, which I mentioned was discredited by Michael Oard some years ago. The theory involves the supposition that there were water-filled chambers about ten miles deep under the former supercontinent, which landmass somehow was caused to split apart, throwing up hot water and rocks high above the atmosphere, then raining down as snow, rain and meteorites. Aside from that, the info in the video is very interesting & plausible to me.

I added a lot of images from the video in the post.

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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:59 pm

429536

CARDONA'S YOUNGER DRYAS DATING NAIVETE'
I posted a paper, CONFUSING CREATION & DOOMSDAY, at https://cataclysmicearthhistory.substac ... d-doomsday on March 11. I was referring to Dwardu Cardona's books in which IMO he relied too much on mainstream dating methods to conclude that Saturn went nova at the time of the Younger Dryas, which the mainstream dates at over 11,000 years ago and lasting over 1,000 years. So Cardona figured that, though the Saturn nova produced a serious heat wave, it also produced a lot of cosmic dust, which caused the extension of the Ice Age. But Michael Oard challenged the mainstream dating and concluded that the entire Ice Age only lasted 700 years. I don't know if he accepts the reality of the Younger Dryas event, but he commented on the dating based on a Greenland ice core, stating that the final cold snap lasted only some years or decades, not centuries.

CHRONOLOGY CHALLENGE Nick mentioned his thinking is that a very short chronology is likely correct, like that of Heinsohn, Rose, Ginenthal, maybe Velikovsky & others, which is maybe a thousand years shorter than mainstream. So I offered to discuss that using progressive scientific method at viewtopic.php?t=1136#p10048. I'm copying most of that post here.

You said you favor short chronologies, whereas Saturnists favor less shortened chronologies. I favor David Rohl's, which is about 250 years shorter than mainstream chronology. I think all agree that the Dark Ages of Greece and other places are wrong and need to be removed.

LK CHRONOLOGY
My model is based:
- 1st on the oldest tree being about 4,700 years old, which must have grown after the Great Flood;
- 2nd on several other features, like rivers etc being 5,000 or so years old, as per Jonathan Gray's writing, also which must have formed after the Great Flood;
- 3rd on the Septuagint Bible stating that the Great Flood occurred c. 5,300 years ago, which event deposited nearly all sedimentary rock strata;
- 4th on Michael Oard's finding that the Ice Age lasted only c. 700 years after the Flood and that the Ice Age occurred on top of the sedimentary strata deposited by the Flood;
- 5th on the Younger Dryas impacts having occurred near the end of the Ice Age, which destroyed most megafauna;
- 6th on iridium-microspherule layers being possibly caused by Saturn novas during the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas event;
- 7th on the Saturn Golden Age having started after the last nova, i.e. after the Younger Dryas;
- 8th on Moe Mandelkehr's finding of a catastrophe 4,300 years ago, which ended the Golden Age and which I suspect was due to the Indian Ocean Burckle Crater impact event;
- 9th on pyramids and ziggurats etc having been likely built after the Golden Age in commemoration of the Saturn Configuration;
- 10th on the Dead Sea event having been dated by David Rohl to 1830 BC, which I suspect was the end of the Jupiter Age, which started after the Golden Age;
- 11th on the Exodus having been dated by David Rohl to c. 1446 BC, which involved a large comet, but probably not Venus
- 12fth on David Rohl's dating of subsequent events.

{SHORT GOLDEN AGE & JUPITER AGE}
By this model, the Golden Age only lasted 300 years from 2,600 to 2,300 BC and the Jupiter Age 470 years from 2,300 to 1,830 BC and it's possible that Venus and Mars, as well as Jupiter, were still in close proximity to Earth in 1830 BC. Cardona had an article in Kronos, I think, called Jupiter, God of Abraham, which gave evidence that the Sodom and Gomorrah disaster by the Dead Sea was caused by brimstone that came from Io, a large moon of Jupiter. I think Cardona later abandoned that idea, but I still find it plausible. It may be that Jupiter was on an elliptical orbit then which brought it close to Earth on occasion, or it may have still been in the remains of the Saturn Train of planets.

{EXODUS COMET}
I suspect that Venus was not the comet of the Exodus, because Cardona said he found no evidence that anyone who talked about the comet of the Exodus ever called it Venus. Even in Worlds in Collision it seems no one was sited as saying the comet was Venus. And surely by that late date everyone at that time was well familiar with Venus as a planet, no longer as a comet. It's not settled science, of course, though. I guess the myths of the Americas provide clues that Venus could have been seen as a comet as late as the time of the Exodus, but it's odd that no one in the eastern hemisphere seems to have called the Exodus comet Venus. So it seems unlikely that the Exodus comet was Venus and it's more unlikely that Mars encountered the Earth c. 700 BC. I can quote from some Aeon articles etc about this later, if needed.
I wrote a paper, THE EXODUS COMET, on March 14 at https://acts15church.substack.com/p/the-exodus-comet . I added it to my online book at https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/p/ancient- ... ry-history , which is one of ten books I have on this Substack: https://zzzzzzz.substack.com/archive .

SATURN & JUPITER AGES
It was only about 2 weeks ago that I found that Cardona figured that the Golden Age started a millennium after the last Saturn Nova, which he dated to 10,000 & 11,000 years ago, respectively. That helped me conclude, tentatively of course, that the Golden Age started after my dating of the Younger Dryas and didn't last long, only till the next cataclysm (Doomsday, 2,300 BC) and that the Jupiter Age followed that cataclysm and lasted till the Dead Sea cataclysm. Cardona figured that the iridium layer came from a Saturn Nova. Both the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas event have iridium layers. So there could have been two recent Saturn Novas, 700 years apart, one causing or contributing to the Great Flood and the second doing so to the Younger Dryas event. Mythologically, the evidence is very strong that the Saturn Configuration was close to Earth several millennia ago, but the physical evidence on Earth isn't strong so far. If it can be proved that the iridium/microspherule layer could only have been produced by a nova, that would pretty much clinch the theory, IMO.

SATURN OVER THE ARCTIC, MAYBE NOT
Cardona had a lot of evidence for the Saturnist idea that Saturn, Venus & Mars were over the north pole and provided the Arctic with heat and light for many millennia, which caused life to proliferate there. He also found myths that said there was a huge vortex in the north which killed living things, smashing them together. He said that could explain the deep Arctic muck composed of animal and plant parts mixed with soil and ice etc.
I asked Bing A.I. about Arctic muck and got this response.
{FORMATION} Formation of Arctic Muck:
Arctic muck is a type of Histosol, characterized by its high organic content.
It forms in boreal, arctic, and subarctic regions where cold conditions slow down decomposition processes.
The accumulation of organic material, including plant remains, contributes to the muck’s composition.
{PRESERVATION} Frozen Preservation:
The permafrost in these regions preserves organic matter by keeping it frozen.
When animals die or plant material falls into the muck, it remains relatively intact due to the cold environment.
{CATACLYSMS} Cataclysmic Events:
Some researchers propose that a cataclysmic event near the end of the last Ice Age caused the rapid burial of animals and vegetation.
This event could have been a massive flood, a volcanic eruption, or another natural catastrophe.
The sudden burial would explain why so many animal bones and wood are found in close proximity within the muck1.
{DISCOVERY} Gold Mining Discoveries:
In the late 1930s and early 1940s, gold mining operations in Alaska uncovered vast amounts of frozen muck containing:
Extinct mammal bones (such as mammoths, mastodons, super-bison, and horses).
Brush, stumps, moss, and freshwater mollusks.
The presence of these materials suggests that the muck is late Pleistocene or early post-glacial in age.
Man-made artifacts were also found in the muck, indicating that humans coexisted with extinct mammals in Alaska1.
{FRACTURING} Splintering Mechanisms:
The splintering of animal bones and wood could result from:
Freezing and thawing cycles: Repeated freezing and thawing cause mechanical stress, leading to fractures.
Pressure from ice: As ice forms and expands, it can exert pressure on organic material, causing it to splinter.
Turbulent water flow: Cataclysmic events may have involved powerful water currents that broke down organic matter.
Abrasion: Movement of ice, water, and debris could have abraded bones and wood, creating splinters.
{SUMMARY} In summary, the combination of frozen preservation, cataclysmic events, and natural processes likely contributed to the presence of splintered animal bones and wood within arctic muck. 🌿❄️🦴
{REFERENCES}
1 https://grahamhancock.com/hancockg18/
2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muskox
3 https://woodcritique.com/repairs/how-to ... wood-deck/
4 https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/commun ... k-arctics/
5 https://www.isric.org/sites/default/fil ... stosol.pdf
6 https://lakewatch.ifas.ufl.edu/media/la ... 12Muck.pdf

TORNADO/VORTEX
I think Cardona considered the Saturnian polar column to be a Vortex. I don't know if there's a way to prove that. The Arctic muck could have been produced by a tornadic vortex, but also by hurrican winds, or deep, turbulent floods.

I feel like I have a good handle on Chronology from the Great Flood of about 5,300 years to the present, but what I'm trying to figure out the most is the times of both the Golden Age and the Jupiter Age. I've only settled on the tentative dates above in the last few weeks. I'm looking for more evidence to either confirm them or readjust them.

WHY SATURN MAYBE WAS NOT OVER THE ARCTIC
I think Cardona assumed that the Pangaea supercontinent breakup occurred millions of years ago. He theorized that the sea floor magnetic stripes showed how far the continents moved apart during prior Saturn nova cataclysms, when they caused the Earth to brake suddenly in its rotation. So he thought the movement was fast but took many such events to get the continents to their present positions. But Mike Fischer at NewGeology.us showed that one large asteroid impact likely broke it up all at once and it took just over a day for the continents to reach their present locations. The magnetic stripes just show that the magnetic field was wobbling during the breakup. The breakup likely occurred during the Great Flood after most of the sedimentary rock strata were deposited. It's possible that Pangaea was on only one side of the Earth because the Saturn configuration was directly above its center. So that's where the north pole would have been. If so, then the poles must have moved during the Great Flood cataclysm or later. Cardona does have some evidence that Saturn raised up the land at the present north pole and that a magma vortex formed in the Earth's mantle below the pole. That could have formed during or after the Great Flood. Well, there's no end to the mysteries that need to be solved. Is there.

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