Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Dec 30, 2021 1:30 am

123402

NOTE: My previous post was on SEMIGLOBAL SEDIMENTARY ROCK MEGASEQUENCES at https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =600#p6134

SEARCH FOR "SEQUENCE" {i.e. chronology, not rock} IN CARDONA'S BOOKS

NEWBORN STAR, by Cardona
[CENTURIES/MILLENNIA-LONG SATURN POLAR COLUMN]
__p.60 INTENSE SOLAR OUTBURSTS
_When [Anthony Peratt] became familiar with the depiction of some of these themes as they appear in numerous petroglyphs from around the world, he convinced himself that the events described in the mytho-historical record had to have been plasmatic in nature.4 The more he delved into the subject, the more he realized that what ancient man had been witness to was a sequence of plasma instabilities that were projected against the backdrop of the sky.5 To use his own words: "Ancient people had recorded all the phases of a plasma discharge, a lightning stroke that must have been unprecedented in intensity and duration"6 - which duration, according to him, would have lasted "at least a few centuries if not millennia."7
[POLAR COLUMN: PLASMA JET]
_p.62 In [Robert] Driscoll's theory, the electric bolts that he envisioned passing between approaching bodies would have ended up forming "a long narrow charge inside a plasma sheath," which charge would have glowed "like a heavenly spear."5 As Irving Wolfe paraphrased Driscoll's conclusion: "A tube containing an oscillating current would have been seen, which might have been the cosmic column 'writhing' with the presence of many bolts."6 What Driscoll described back then is now known to be electrically-charged streams of ionized particles that cause the high-speed plasma flows that are often referred to as cosmic jets.7 Once thought to constitute rare phenomena, these plasma flows are now known to be "extremely common across the Universe."8 As far as the present study is concerned, it was one of these so-called flows that constituted the sustained plasma discharge in the form of Birkeland current that once bridged the gap between Earth and its primordial polar sun - in other words, the polar column under discussion.
[COMMENT: So Peratt figured that the column could have lasted for hundreds or thousands of years, but, so far, it looks to me like it would not have lasted a thousand years, but probably 500 to 700 years, the time from the Great Flood till the Pangaea breakup event or the Younger Dryas event or later, since Saturn flares apparently occurred at those events.]

METAMORPHIC STAR, by Cardona
[DRAGON: VENUS' COMETARY TAIL]
__p.288-289 LEVIATHAN
_There are two mysterious creatures mentioned in the Old Testament book of Job. One of them is Behemoth,1 the other is Leviathan.2
_Leviathan was said to have possessed more than one head,5
_The [common guesses] stem from the nature assigned to these bizarre creatures, such as spouting water, using tails and fins in their defense against each other, together with what they fed on [etc].
_Leviathan, as W. G. Lambert rightly tells his readers, "is not a great fish, but a snake."12
_Velikovsky ... proposed that Leviathan had actually been the former cometary aspect of the planet Venus during the time of the Israelite exodus from Egypt.4
_That Leviathan was the Semitic form of our friend, the dragon, is intimated by his description as a fire-breathing serpent. "Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke ... His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth."4
_As he moves, it was written, he "maketh a path to shine after him,"5 which shining path is understood as the resplendent trail proto-Satum's uncoiling debris left in its wake. To be sure, Leviathan's fins were said to "radiate brilliant light,"6....
_p.297 One of the most villainous serpents in ancient Egypt [myths] was Apep....
_p.298 the source of derivation that had been common, not only to Sumerians and Egyptians, but to all who had lived through it, was the protracted sequence of events that followed the proto-Saturnian flare-up of our discussion. It was said that Apep was given birth just after Ra himself was born,2 which to us means that he came into being right after proto-Saturn's flaring activation. Not only did he, however, come into being, as we have seen, he also spread across the proto-Saturnian deity's face, an action that was visualized by some as an assault on Ra.

REMEMBER:
The Road to Saturn, Dwardu Cardona, in my recent post at https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... 6134#p6047
_[BLACK MASS ATTACKED SATURN] When the light of the flare-up finally ebbed, man was presented with a ghastly sight. Spewing out from the central orb was a multi-spiraled black mass that revolved and wound itself around [Saturn]. Viewed as a monster which the transformed [planet Saturn] had to subdue, this was also the chaos out of which creation progressed.

GOD STAR, by Cardona
[CARDONA'S SEQUENCE]
_p.303 the chronological sequence of events
[He started with 11 Hypotheses in God Star, but increased it to 32 in Metamorphic Star. I listed them in my Apr 19, 2020 post at https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/ph ... =165#p1853 ]
[THE SUN WAS MORE DISTANT]
_p.340 I have presented these mytho-historical snippets concerning the approaching Sun as if the event took place during the age of darkness when, in truth, the event took place later. In other words, I have presented these data out of chronological sequence merely to make my point. The approaching Sun, appearing no bigger than a star, became visible to Earth's inhabitants at that time when the plasmasphere came in contact with that of the Sun itself.
_p.415 the mass of the Sun ... would not have been involved, at least not initially, in our alternative scenario where the co-axial Saturnian system would have originally sustained itself far away from the Sun's gravitational and/or electromagnetic influence.

PRIMORDIAL STAR, by Cardona
[CAUSE OF SATURN FLARES]
_p.86 If, however, it is ever found that brown dwarf flares are intrinsic, it would have to be assumed that proto-Saturn's Pleistocene flare-up was induced through an electrical short-circuit once its plasmasphere came in contact with the Sun's heliosphere. If so, that particular flare-up would have to have occurred out of cyclical sequence, and that, too, might account for its less energetic outburst on that occasion.
[COMMENT: I've stated before that I think it's unlikely that the solar system has a plasmasphere, as Charles Chandler argued. The Sun does have an electric current disk [heliospheric current sheet] which goes past Jupiter but dwindles down to nothing before reaching Saturn. It seems plausible that Saturn flares could have been caused by first encountering that disk.]
[PANGAEA BREAKUP]
_p.248 Brian Hills tells us that the [Pangaea] break-up took place in the early stages of the following Tertiary period, "creating the Atlantic Ocean with North America drifting away from Europe and South America drifting away from Africa."2 The exact sequence and timing of these tectonic shifts, however, have not yet been carved in stone, so that we can only accept the foregoing as a scholarly approximation.
_Much earlier, in studying the distortion patterns of Earth's girdling rift and associated ridges, Melvin Cook came to the conclusion that the rifting occurred "within a few hours, or days at the most."4 And, still according to him, the total duration of the rifting plates "may have been as little as six or seven hours,"5 with "about 6 to 8 hours" for the rift "to encircle the Earth."6 Granted that Cook's model was based on "the ice cap model of continental shift," it also included the suggestion of "possible contributions by heavenly bodies."7
[COMMENT: I've also stated that this breakup occurred 500 years after the Great Flood. The Tertiary occurred in the late stage of the Flood, so that's not right. I'm just looking for some of Cardona's views on these issues. Cook was close to the correct timing of the breakup event. Mike Fischer estimated that it took 26 hours, based on the speed of seismic waves and the asteroid's size.]
[SATURN GAVE BIRTH TO VENUS]
_p.358 Mankind's solitary deity had roused himself from his age-old slumber. Having had union with himself,8 concurrent with his emission of blinding light,9 God gave birth to a daughter. But that entails a complex sequence of events that is reserved for the next volume in this series.

FLARE STAR, by Cardona
[ICE AGE]
_further studies of similar cores by Nicholas Shackleton "showed a definite sequence of 19 stages of warming and cooling over the past 700,000 years."3
[COMMENT: I agree with Creationists, though I'm not a Creationist myself, that there was only one Ice Age. The 19 stages all occurred during the one Ice Age over a few hundred years.]
_p.207 This very Voluspa [of Scandinavia] speaks of an original land of ice, darkness, and mist situated in the north. From the south, rivers flowed toward the land of ice, where they became frost-bound and died in the icy vastness. But later, so these legends proclaim, there arose a south wind which brought warm air with it and the ice was melted.3
[DURATION OF PLASMA INSTABILITIES {polar column?} IN ROCK ART]
_p.269-270 Peratt easily recognized them as patterns of instabilities in a plasma column which also appear "on a world-wide basis."7 The first item (Fig. l, on p. 270) shows the spheroids and spirals just beginning to separate and unravel. In sequence, this would follow the event depicted on the so-called pendant from Saint-Marcel. The second one (Fig. 2) continues to show the unraveling in which the spirals are now almost beyond recognition. The third (Fig. 3), which Peratt calls "the most complicated," would have occurred "sometime after a long-lasting stability," and involves "an intense symmetrical magnetic crush along the whole column."8
_the entire sequence could not have lasted more than a person's lifetime.
_p.274 I must opt for a much shorter time for the instability sequence discussed above. After all, even Peratt's own calculations of 10 and 50 years, as noted, would seem to point in that direction.
_p.279 We will never be able to comprehend completely how this resplendent change in the sky affected our primitive forebears. The scintillating light that would have accompanied the ever-changing sequence of instabilities, to say nothing of the changes themselves, must have filled them with awe....
[RETRACTION OF THE POLAR COLUMN {PHALLUS}]
_There was a general belief among the ancient Egyptians that, at one time, Ra cut off his own phallus.2 Since, as we have already seen, the phallus of Ra was actually the plasma column or axis mundi we have been analyzing, what this self-castration seems to indicate is a detachment of that axis. This castration motif is one that recurs often enough in myth#although, to be sure, some of it refers to a much later, but similar, event.

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:50 pm

124607

HOW MY EARTH HISTORY TIMELINE HAS CHANGED SINCE I STARTED THIS THREAD
(ALSO SOME COMPARISON WITH OTHER SOURCE MODELS)


(I probably overlooked some.)

NOTE: Also I have a potential project plan at the end. I suspect that there won't be enough data available for it, but I hope to be surprised.


C.19._Timeline visuals
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =270#p2855

C.22.EARTH HISTORY
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =315#p3124

C.23._NEW OUTLINE OF EARTH HISTORY: EARTH HISTORY SUMMARY (5 Ages); DETAILED SUMMARY
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =330#p3247

C.25._SOME MAJOR PARTS OF EGYPTIAN, BIBLICAL & CATASTROPHIST CHRONOLOGY: MY EARTH HISTORY SUMMARY MY TIMELINE OF MAJOR EVENTS; CHARLES CHANDLER'S CHRONOLOGY + MY COMMENTS
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =360#p3420

DA.26.MY SLIGHTLY REVISED TIMELINE;
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =375#p3653

C.27._CATACLYSMIC HISTORY: EARTH HISTORY: FIVE AGES
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =390#p3750

C.32._CATASTROPHIC HISTORY FINDINGS FROM THIS THREAD:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =465#p4736

C.33._JUST 4 AGES (I previously thought 5)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =480#p4960

ST.34._PIECING TOGETHER A COHERENT SATURN THEORY: Cardona, Moss, Talbott +
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =495#p5039

SD.37._SUMMARY OF THE NEWGEOLOGY EARTH HISTORY **TIMELINE:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =540#p5172

YD.37.YOUNGER DRYAS EVENT ON HIS **TIMELINE
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =540#p5172

ST.37._WHY RETHINK CARDONA'S **TIMELINE;
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =540#p5269

C.38._TENTATIVE NEW CATACLYSMIC **TIMELINE;
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =555#p5566

DA.38.PROPOSED C14 CATACLYSM **DATING CORRELATIONS;
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =555#p5566

YD.38._CATACLYSM **DATES & SOME ANALYSIS; FOUR EVENTS (global cataclysms)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =555#p5407

39._THE GREAT CATACLYSMS: & COMMENTARY _ADDITIONAL CATACLYSMIC EVENTS
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/php ... =570#p5715


WAS ZUNI OR TEJAS MEGASEQUENCE LONG AFTER THE GREAT FLOOD?

To get an idea if either one was likely long after the Flood, I made a note to See if fossils changed much from Zuni to Tejas megasequences. They should have changed a lot if they were 500 years apart. Also see if Absaroka to Zuni changed much. Maybe Zuni and Tejas both were long after the Flood.

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:20 pm

127178

ONLINE BOOK COMING?: DISASTER-PRONE PLANET

I'm starting to try writing an online KDP Amazon book with a possible title of:
DISASTER-PRONE PLANET
and a subtitle of:
PARADISE TO DOOMSDAY
I also hope to start a video channel on similar topics.

Here's what I came up with for the beginning, which may morph into a sort of Table of Contents.


(The Bible Is Right & Wrong; So Is Mainstream Science)

(My plan is to upload this ebook before it's finished and then to keep adding to it periodically, like maybe weekly, which is like what I've been doing on the Thunderbolts.info forum.)

ORIGIN OF SCIENCE
_Wikipedia says the roots of Science began in Egypt and Mesopotamia ca. 3,000 BC, i.e. with math, astronomy and medicine. Lyndon LaRouche had said that modern Science began with Cardinal Nicolas of Cusa in Italy in the 1400s AD, based on Biblical admonition.
_Early geologists were Christians who accepted Biblical accounts of a former Great Flood as a major early geological event.

FLOOD VS. GLACIATION
_Later geologists couldn't see how a Flood would have caused some geological features, but they thought glaciers could have caused them, so they mostly gradually abandoned the theory of a short-lived Great Flood in favor of long-term glaciation.
_What they hadn't thought about was that major impacts could have accounted for many of the features that the Flood alone could not account for. The Bible used the word matar which apparently referred to meteors, but was possibly mistranslated as hail.

RADIOMETRIC DATING
_In the early 20th century with the discovery of radioactivity, geologists developed radiometric dating, which indicated that most igneous rock is millions of years old.

METEOR IMPACTS
_Around 1980, Alvarez et al concluded that major impacts were responsible for ending the age of dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
_More recently, Firestone et al found that the Younger Dryas glaciation was caused by comet or asteroid impacts, which killed off most giant mammals ca. 13,000 years ago.

CATASTROPHISM
_In the 1950s a Psychiatrist/Historian, Velikovsky, found evidence in mythology and in geology that astronomical bodies caused devastation on Earth ca. 3,000 and more years ago. He published a popular book on the subject, called Worlds in Collision.
_In the 1970s Steve and David Talbott published a magazine, Pensee', devoted to scientific studies of Velikovsky's theory. Several other periodicals followed into the early 2000s. David Talbott and Dwardu Cardona were the most influential researchers after Velikovsky.

FORMER SATURN SYSTEM
_They concluded independently of each other that mythology points to the planets Saturn, Venus and Mars, as well as Jupiter later, as the identities of the major gods of antiquity, which were close companions of the Earth originally and all four or five were more distant from the Sun than now.
_They also concluded that Velikovsky's datings of the Earth's encounters with Venus and Mars in the second millennium BC were in error, and should have been dated to the third millennium BC.
_Cardona showed that the Saturn system was scientifically possible and mythologically moreso.

ACCURACY OF DATING METHODS
_Some dating methods are better than others. Radiometric dating is most inaccurate. Radiocarbon dating, tree ring dating, etc are more accurate. Ice core dating is fairly accurate down to a few thousand years ago, but is very inaccurate beyond that, because the climate was much different during major cataclysms.
_Radiometric dating is based on wrong assumptions. Normal radioactive decay can take millions of years, but ionization can speed up radioactive decay tremendously. Major impacts etc can cause severe ionization in various locations (and thus can cause rapid radioactive decay) esp. as meteors move at high velocity through the atmosphere.

FLOODS DEPOSITED SEDIMENTARY STRATA
_Virtually all sedimentary rock strata were deposited between 6,000 and 4,000 years ago, mostly by Tsunami Flooding. Tsunamis were caused by tidal forces from one or more close astonomical bodies, and by ocean impacts, earthquakes and volcanism. There were at least two global floods about 500 years apart.

FIRST FLOOD
_The first Great Flood could have covered all of the land, because there were not yet any mountains or highlands. The supercontinent Pangaea was all lowland and shallow seas.
_The Great Flood deposited most of the sediment strata that gradually hardened into sedimentary rock. An elliptically orbiting astronomical body, similar to the present Moon, likely caused tidal waves that moved ocean sediments onto Pangaea on a weekly or monthly basis for several months about 5,000 years ago. Many meteors hit Pangaea at the same time, causing many craters in the sediments.

____(Note to self: See if craters formed in damp sediment differ much from those formed in hardened sedimentary rock in order to help determine which strata were deposited during which Flood.)

FOSSILS
_Dinosaurs were the dominant animals before the Great Flood and were mostly buried by that Flood. Giant mammals became dominant after the Great Flood, but only survived a few centuries until the next global cataclysm occurred.

ICE SHEET & WARM ARCTIC
_Central and southern Canada and the northern U.S. were covered by an ice sheet after the Great Flood, because impacts put a lot of water vapor and dust into the air and volcanoes added more debris, which shaded the land and caused extreme snowfall for several centuries. But the Arctic remained warm because the Saturn system was above the north pole giving off warmth and sunlight.

PANGAEA BREAKUP & OROGENESIS
_The Pangaea supercontinent was struck by a large asteroid, which broke the supercontinent up into the present continents and islands. The impact caused the pieces of Pangaea to move rapidly apart, with the exception of Africa. Eurasia moved counterclockwise, but didn't move as far as other continents, because it's more massive and received less momentum, i.e. from that of India when it collided with China and raised up the Himalaya Mountains. The asteroid impact caused other mountain ranges to form on each of the continents. Continental Drift was rapid and recent, not slow and extremely ancient. Likewise regarding orogenesis.

SECOND GREAT FLOOD
_The asteroid impact and other impacts, as well as close encounters, caused extreme tidal waves, possibly greater than those of the first Great Flood, but they weren't high enough to cover all of the newly formed highlands and mountains. Some impacts hit the ice sheet and melted much of it, adding to the flooding. Large parts of the remaining ice sheet floated away on Flood waters to the oceans.

ARCTIC PERMAFROST
_Some depressions or craters in Siberia and Alaska nearly a mile deep were filled by Flood waters and hurricanes carrying dirt, debris and dead plant and animal parts. Ammonia from a Saturn nova was possibly also involved, as well as cold air from the upper atmosphere which flash froze the water and debris into mostly solid ice, called permafrost, meaning permanently frozen. Hail or rock ice also fell, mixed with dust, and buried some of the giant mammals largely intact as they suffocated from the dust.

SATURN/JUPITER SYSTEM BREAKUP
_The planets of the former Saturn/Jupiter system finally became unstable due possibly to getting too close to the Sun (i.e. between the asteroid belt and the present orbit of Venus). One by one they were pulled away from the former system. The meteor streams that formed from the system continued to assault the Earth periodically, esp. around Halloween. The deaths caused by impacts are what Halloween commemorated. The meteor streams still pose a major threat to Earth, but hopefully the threat will end as space tech may develop that will protect the Earth from further bombardment.

GODS ON EARTH
_Religions developed based on cultural experience with global disasters. The suffering in the Americas may have been worse than in the Eastern hemisphere, because human sacrifice, to appease the imagined gods that brought periodic disasters, was apparently much worse among the major American tribes, i.e. the Mayas et al. As noted at the outset, Religion largely gave way to or inspired Science, though the latter has not yet achieved sufficiently high quality objectivity IMO.

SCIENCE IS WRONG ABOUT GRAVITY
_Electrical forces are much stronger than gravity, so mainstream science misunderstands a lot of phenomena in the universe. Stars, planets and moons form electrically via implosion in galactic filaments, not gravitationally via nebular accretion. The Big Bang, black holes, worm holes and dark matter are myths. The redshift of light is caused mainly by the Compton Effect, which involves stellar ionization, not the Doppler Effect, which involves high velocity. So the universe is not expanding at high velocity. Exotic stars, like quasars and white dwarfs, form when galactic filaments implode at higher velocities than normal. Pulsars are not neutron stars. They are also exotics, i.e. counterstreaming rings of positive and negative ions. Gravity is not strong enough to make black holes. It cannot overcome the coulomb barrier which keeps negative and positive charges apart within atoms.

KTMKim
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:20 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by KTMKim » Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:51 pm

Lloyd wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:20 pm 127178

ONLINE BOOK COMING?: DISASTER-PRONE PLANET
Oh yeah? That should be interesting. Greg Jays channel does something similar. Connects the dots with his videos. I enjoy it very much.

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:23 am

128857

For Online Book re ICE SHEET & WARM ARCTIC

SEARCH ON ARCTIC IN CARDONA'S BOOKS

(I'm looking for Cardona's evidence that Saturn was over the North Pole.)

[ARCTIC OCEAN = SATURNIAN SEA]
GOD STAR
__p.239 It was no different in ancient Greece. In neo-Platonist philosophy, for instance, Kronos/Saturn was associated with the pole. Orphic thought also identified Chronos who, as we shall see, was the same as Kronos, as the power behind the turning of the heavens around the polar axis. 151 It is therefore no surprise that, when praying, the ancient Greeks, too, faced to the north. 152
_In time, the sacredness of the north was bound to touch terrestrial realms which, in European thought, remained philologically bound to Saturn through Kronos. The Greeks themselves referred to the North Sea as K.ronios Okeanos, or the Saturnian Sea. 153 The adjective "Cronian," derived from "Kronos," has even survived in the English language as descriptive of the Arctic Ocean. 154 [See e.g. https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Cronian ]
_As Warren discovered, the same idea persisted in Etruria, before Rome [as well as to Rome itself]....
__p.255 Encircling the Arctic Ocean is a blanket of detritus known as muck. This area is so vast it actually covers one seventh of Earth's land surface.41 This muck is composed of deep-frozen "goo with silt, sand, pebbles, and boulders, often with masses of preserved, semi-decayed, or fully decayed vegetable and animal matter."4
[ARCTIC VORTEX - POLAR COLUMN]
__p.270 THE WHIRL OF CREATION.
_p.272 a Teutonic legend concern[ed] ... a voyage up to the Arctic Ocean where they encountered a darkness that could hardly be penetrated. They were then exposed to a maelstrom which threatened to drag them down into Chaos.91
[COMMENT: I need to compare Cardona's ideas about muck {plus permafrost} origin with Del Air's, which I posted here recently.]
[SATURN'S RED LIGHT]
_p.293 Sunlight being starlight, photosynthesis would have been able to occur just as well under the light shed by the brown dwarf star that once was Saturn. Its dimmer light would have been compensated for by the plants' ability to control absorption in proportion to the incident radiation failing upon them. Equally significant to our study is the fact that red light is the most important spectrum necessary for the growing of plants.31 Brown dwarf stars are known to radiate a propensity of red light. Thus, the spectrum of received light on Earth during the Saturnian period would have been much redder than at present32 and, therefore, more conducive to plant growth.
[COMMENT: Cardona concluded that the Arctic was warm and plants and animals flourished there during the Golden Age. I just noticed a bit of a contradiction. The polar vortex would have prevented plants and animals from living wherever the vortex touched Earth's surface. Cardona credited the vortex with moving around and swallowing up living things and breaking them into pieces, mixing them with dust and water and depositing them on the ground as muck. The vortex either covered only a small area of ground or it occurred at the end of the Golden Age, IMO.]
[WARM-LOVING PLANT & ANIMAL FOSSILS]
_p.354 The North Pole, meanwhile, is not always as cold as one generally supposes. Arctic temperatures in summer usually reach 80° F in the shade.
_The coldest place in the Arctic is in the Yukon basin, shared by Alaska and the Yukon Territory, and the province of Yakutsk in Siberia where temperatures colder than 90° F below zero "have been reliably recorded."
_p.361 As early as the nineteenth century it was "admitted by all scientific authorities that at one time the regions within the Arctic Circle enjoyed a tropical or nearly tropical climate."
_p.363 The Canadian island of Axel Heiberg, in Nunavut, well above the Arctic Circle, well beyond the present tree line, is littered with the remains of ancient forests - stumps, logs, and remnants of leaves and even fruit. Although the relics of such forests are known from other parts of the world, those on Axel Heiberg are exceptional because, unlike other remains, they have not been petrified. On the contrary, the remains have maintained their original form and even tissue.
_Barren, gaunt, and forbidding as the island now is, its rolling hills bear the traces of more than twenty separate forest layers, stacked on top of each other, all of which are found in situ, testifying to growth on the spot rather than transmission by the forces of nature.
[COMMENT: The separate forest layers might have been deposited by flooding, as trees often sink in vertical position and sediment can bury them gradually over months' time, I think. The forests may have come from not so far away, in which case the following would make sense.]
_p.365 The coal-bearing sediments of the Eureka Sound Group scattered throughout most of the Arctic Archipelago also contain such remains.
_Trees from the middle Eocene in the same area reached up to 50 meters high.
_The fossils of animals found buried amid the remains of these forests-ancestors of the horse and rhinoceros, giant lizards, land tortoises, salamanders, snakes, alligators, crocodiles, flying lemurs41 - all testify to the warmth of the climate at that time, as so does the discovery of fossil palm trees and huge exotic ferns by Soviet paleobotanists in the islands of Spitsbergen in the Svalbard archipelago far within the Arctic Circle.42 Even fossil tapirs, the descendants of which now live in the equatorial Amazon forest, were found on Ellesmere Island.43
[COMMENT: Continental Drift moved the northern continents further northward, so that may explain the fossils coming from warmer climate too.]
[FOSSIL TREE RINGS]
_p.374 evidence exists which does seem to point to past seasonal stability. This evidence comes from tree rings.
_Fossilized trees from various past ages show distinct annular rings. Others do not. Wood retrieved from late Paleozoic deposits in the southern hemisphere has been said to show pronounced ring growths. So, also, fossils of deciduous trees from the Cretaceous. In fact, fossilized wood samples ranging all the way from the Devonian to the Eocene have been claimed to show well marked annular rings. The scientific literature on this subject, however, is very ambiguous. More recent work has tended to show that rings are either lacking or very weak in all known specimens from the Devonian period which seems to indicate a non-seasonal environment. Most fossil trees from the Carboniferous period, which followed the Devonian, also lack rings.
_p.375 As Jane Francis noted, samples of wood collected by her on Axel Heiberg Island showed clear annular rings over a quarter of an inch wide. And, because the darker latewood added at the end of the growing season featured very narrow bands, the conclusion has been drawn that the trees grew rapidly during the twenty-four hour sunshine period of the Arctic summer and then closed up shop during the winter hours of darkness.92 The problem with this, however, is that trees would not have survived such prolonged periods of darkness. And then there is the fauna to consider.
_p.377 As we have seen, it is quite apparent that trees grow rings, or fail to grow rings, regardless of seasonal change or stability. More importantly, if trees can, as they do, grow rings in tropical and equatorial regions in which there is no appreciable seasonal change, what is so problematic with having trees growing rings in a sub-tropical Arctic which enjoyed but one spring-like season?
[CORAL RINGS]
_p.391 Ma noticed that the rates of total annual growth in corals in identical, or similar, species increased with proximity to the equator, while seasonal variation in growth rates increased with distances from the equator. This enabled him to correlate coral growth with latitude, which furnished him with a technique for investigating Earth's ancient climates.
_What all of this conveyed to Ma was that, in the past, the position of the equator had changed from one geologic period to another and that none of these coincided with the present equatorial position of land. One of these earlier equators was even found to have bisected the Arctic Ocean.
[FORMER MAGNETIC POLES]
_p.400 The three localities of the former magnetic poles which are the furthest south are those for 180 and 160 million years ago, both of which land us in the Jurassic period of the Mesozoic era, and the one for 115 million years ago, which moves us up to the Cretaceous period of the same era. All three of them, as well as the rest, are within the Arctic Circle - that is these ancient magnetic poles were already within the Arctic Circle at the times supplied by Andrews.
[POLAR COLUMN DEBRIS]
_p.458 Right from day one, David Talbott had understood [the polar column] as a luminescent stream of falling debris. 1 One reason I could not accept this interpretation came from the lack of recognizable cosmic material in Earth's Arctic regions. Let's face it, if the polar column was really composed of material ejected from a stationary planet located in Earth's north celestial pole, and since the column is posited to have existed for possible millennia, such constant bombardment should have strewn Earth's Arctic regions with cosmic detritus. 2 Since then, however, such material has been found in Arctic regions. Thus, for instance,
"a large fall of iron meteorites" is now believed to have occurred in northwestern Greenland and the adjacent east coast of Ellesmere Island.... Even so, this is hardly the amount of cosmic material one expects to discover in Arctic regions, especially the area in and around the pole, if the debris had been raining down for millennia.
_p.465 THE ARCTIC DEPRESSION [SEDIMENT]
_p.466 the Arctic Ocean "contains four depressions of oceanic depth which, unlike other oceans, hold large volumes of sediment."41
_Under the scheme presented here, it seems more reasonable to suppose that the thick sediment of the Arctic Ocean was created in situ by the constant scouring of the tornadic polar column. Also, as we have seen, Earth's boreal lithospheric bulge would have risen because of proto-Saturn's proximity. The tidal heaping of Earth's interior magma, however, would have actually been greater than at the surface. ... This heated plastic matter would then have broken through the surface, causing a collapse of the crust. This is precisely what has been discovered in the Eurasian Basin of the Arctic Ocean, an area which "represents a regional collapse of the Earth's surface due to material being removed from the lower mantle." 46
[HUMAN SETTLEMENT]
_p.492 One could also ask: Did man even inhabit such northern regions in those far off times? Why not - especially since the Arctic was the warmest place on Earth? Stone tools, similar to those retrieved in East Africa, obviously worked by man, have been unearthed in fifteen different sites beneath the permafrost in present Siberia 6 [and other Arctic lands too].

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:03 am

129322

Land bridges after the Flood
https://creation.com/land-bridges-after-the-flood
[FORMER ENGLISH CHANNEL LAND BRIDGE]
_A land bridge once existed across the Dover Strait connecting the United Kingdom with continental Europe early in the Ice Age.39 Sonar features of the bottom of the English Channel at and near Dover Strait,40 the closest approach of England and France, revealed features similar to the Channeled Scablands, the catastrophic deposition and erosion caused by the Lake Missoula flood in eastern Washington.41,42 Scientists concluded from this and other evidence that a large lake formed in the southern North Sea when the water was blocked by advancing ice in the central North Sea.43 In the biblical Ice Age model, after the Scandinavian and British-Irish Ice Sheets coalesced the lake would have overtopped the land bridge and destroyed it.
[WARM EARLY ICE AGE CLIMATE]
_The post-Flood climate model can explain why the hippopotamuses and cold-tolerant animals lived together in northwest Europe during the Ice Age. The predominantly westerly winds off of the much warmer Atlantic Ocean early in the Ice Age would create a warm, wet climate in north-west Europe. England’s summers and winters may have averaged about 25°C with much more precipitation than today. Hippos could have comfortably spread north-west from the ‘mountains of Ararat’ across the Dover Strait Land Bridge into the United Kingdom.
_The post-Flood Ice Age climate was very dynamic. After a few hundred years, midway to late in the Ice Age, the ocean cooled so the temperatures over the land also became cooler.57,58 North-west Europe was increasingly more populated by cold-tolerant animals. Many hippos were able to tolerate some cooling. Glaciation began in the northern mountains of the UK (the Scottish Highlands) about midway into the Ice Age, and then spread into lower elevations and southward. Between this time and late in the Ice Age two things happened. The Dover Land Bridge broke, preventing escape (see above), and the weather had become too cold for the hippos and many of the other mammals. The warm and cold tolerant mammals died together as the climate changed dramatically.
[WHY MIGRATION OCCURRED EARLY IN THE ICE AGE]
_First, the drop in sea level at glacial maximum would have been much less than secular scientists believe. It may have been only about 50 m, assuming Northern Hemisphere ice sheets were on average about 700 m thick and the Antarctic ice sheet was about 1,200 m thick at glacial maximum (figure 11). There is strong evidence that the Laurentide and Scandinavian Ice Sheets were significantly thinner than secular scientists believe.63,64 If so, less water would have been trapped in the ice sheets and the oceans would not have been so low at glacial maximum. The current bathymetry of the Bering Strait has a minimum depth of –50 m. If this is true, the Bering Land Bridge would have been barely exposed at Ice Age maximum.
_Second, by the time of glacial maximum, the winter temperatures in Siberia, Alaska, and on the Bering Land Bridge would have become too cold (figure 9) for animals to survive the long journey through Siberia to Alaska. Moreover, the atmosphere would have been drier than early in the Ice Age (figure 12) and strong winds with blowing silt and sand would make travel likely impossible.

ICR Ice Core Research Continues
https://www.icr.org/article/ice-core-re ... ontinues//
[ICE CORES ARE YOUNG]
_Creationists [& other Catastrophists like us] think the thick ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica began forming just 4,500 years ago during a short Ice Age triggered by the Genesis Flood. During the Ice Age, warm oceans resulted in tremendous evaporation, causing snowfall rates to be much higher than today. The Flood/Ice Age model easily explains longstanding mysteries of Earth history, such as the ability of millions of woolly mammoths to live in Siberia during the Ice Age.1
_Because explosive volcanic eruptions can deposit layers of volcanic ash and debris (or tephra) onto the ice sheets, tephra layers are sometimes found within the ice cores. Because secular age models greatly underestimate the true thicknesses of the deepest annual layers (Figure 2), those models assign far too much time to a given thickness of ice deep within a core.
_In the same way, they assign too much time to the thicknesses of tephra layers deep within the ice. Thus, secular age models can imply that fallout from an explosive volcanic eruption can occur for unreasonably long times. For instance, a simple secular age model implies that one tephra layer in Antarctica’s Dome Fuji core, thought to have originated from a volcano almost 3,000 miles away, was deposited over a period of about five years.10 Has anyone ever observed a single ashfall lasting this long?
_Secular age models also assign truly vast ages to the deep ice cores from East Antarctica. About 85% of this time is assigned to the bottom halves of the cores. If secular models are assigning hundreds of thousands of imaginary “years” to the bottom core sections, tephra deposits deep within these Antarctic cores will consistently seem extremely infrequent when plotted against the secular timescale. This is indeed the case. Three deep ice cores from East Antarctica have been assigned bottom ages greater than 400,000 years, and all three show this pattern (Figure 4).4

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:39 am

129607

This is my 3rd post this week.

MORE SEARCH RESULTS ON ARCTIC IN CARDONA'S BOOKS

FLARE STAR
[WARM ARCTIC]
_p.34 Due to the discovery of tropical and sub-tropical remains of plants and animals in both the Arctic and Antarctic regions,2 various authorities subscribed to similar ideas in that Earth's rotational pole must have either shifted its location or tilted its direction in space. It was argued that either one of these changes could also account for the occurrence of ice ages.
[COMMENT: The Saturn Theory says pole shifts would have been brief, I think, as myths indicate that Saturn went below the horizon for a time, before being "resurrected". Pole shifts would not have caused a warm Arctic. Instead it was Saturn that warmed it.]
_p.78-79 In concurrence with Hapgood, John White could add that evidence exists "that the middle of the Arctic Ocean was 'a temperate-climate refuge ... for the fauna and flora that could not exist in Canada or the United States' at precisely the time of the great advance of the Wisconsin continental glacier three thousand miles to the south."1
[SUDDEN FREEZING OF SIBERIA]
_Not surprisingly, Allan and Delair also jumped on this bandwagon:
"The great lenticles and ribbons of ice ... containing .. . organic remains in Siberia, were clearly frozen more or less at, or very shortly after, the actual accumulation of the beds. In other words, the freezing of these beds, the deposition of the volcanic ash layers within them, the slaughter of the innumerable animals they now yield, and the aqueous (diluvial) mixing of this assorted debris into chaotic 'muck' deposits was extraordinarily rapid. The singular evidence of the suddenly and permanently refrigerated animal carcasses found in both the Siberian and Alaskan deposits ... not only overwhelmingly confirms this but suggests that in at least those regions refrigeration was virtually instantaneous..."1
_this author [Cardona] is in total agreement....
[ICE CAPS AFTER ICE AGE]
_the Golden Age, came after the Pleistocene Ice Age.
_it follows that those beasts whose remains have been found frozen in whole or in part in Arctic and sub-Arctic regions could not have been exterminated at the beginning of the Ice Age. Had that been the case, the deep frozen specimens of these animals would have had ample time to thaw and decompose during the lengthy period of the Golden Age. The conclusion reached in the present study is that these behemoths were catastrophically eradicated when the present polar ice caps were formed, long after the Pleistocene Ice Age had come to an end.1
_p.80 THE ICE-FREE ARCTIC [& MID-LATITUDE ICE SHEET]
_p.85 during the Pleistocene Ice Age, the entire Arctic Circle was free of ice.
_p.87 the Arctic region was not only free of ice during the Pleistocene Ice Age, it was also free of ice during previous ice ages, including the Jurassic period3
and the later Devonian.
[COMMENT: There was likely only one Ice Age. All of the Sedimentary Rock "Ages" occurred from the time of the Great Flood to that of the Younger Dryas event.]
_That the poles were icefree during this period still requires an explanation.
_p.88 an ice-free Arctic situated above latitudes which themselves were gripped within a relentless ice age calls for a permanent source of heat located right above Earth's celestial north pole.
_not only had the lands within the Arctic Circle been basking in ... warmth, but ..., in fact, the polar north had been even warmer than more southerly latitudes. More than that, we also noted that temperate, sub-tropical, and even tropical animals seem to have appeared there long before they did much farther to the south.2
_p.164 THE BOREAL CRADLE
_The Arctic regions have not only been found to have been warm during past geological ages, much warmer than at present, but even warmer than anywhere else on Earth.4 This boreal zone, it is now known, was teeming with life. Tropical and sub-tropical mammals and reptiles proliferated.5 Not only that, but flora and fauna had actually appeared in Arctic regions much earlier than they did in more southerly latitudes.6 Even dinosaurs are now known to have proliferated within the Arctic Circle.7 And while we shall be returning to this particular subject in greater detail in Part Seven of this work, it will do to keep in mind that these "thunder lizards" are now believed to have been warmblooded. One may therefore wonder how these massive denizens could have survived within Earth's Arctic region under present conditions. Nor is there any point in appealing to continental drift to account for the transport of these remains from more southerly regions because, during the Cretaceous, to which these fossils have been dated, these lands were already within the Arctic.1
_p.168 [HUMAN] ARCTIC SURVIVAL
_If the Arctic ... was free of ice during the Ice Age, the region around the Arctic Sea must have seen a proliferation of human activity.
_p.179 Neanderthals out[side] of the Arctic regions might have needed vast intakes of animal food for their dietary sustenance. Those living in the warmer Arctic areas might not have. The fact that they did eat enough meat to sustain them could have been merely due to the fact that entire herds of animals were all around them ready to be chased, trapped, and slain.
_p.205 ANCIENT MAN IN ARCTIC REGIONS [NOT IN ICE SHEET REGIONS]
_Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon sites have been discovered strewn all over the place south of the Pleistocene glacial demarcation. None have yet come to light from those areas which were covered with glacial ice. The glaciated region seems to have formed a girdle, roughly between latitudes 60° and 40°, a massive belt stretching midway around the northern hemisphere. Both the areas above this belt, that is the Arctic, and below it, remained free of ice except for the peaks of some of the highest mountains.
_[Cardona then listed some examples of human artifacts found in the Arctic.]
_p.207 THE MYTHO-HISTORICAL CONNECTION
_[He mentions myths that described ancient times of terrible cold.]
_p.385 [RAPID ICE SHEET] MELTDOWN
_p.386 There should also be some evidence that the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age came rather suddenly....
_p.387-388 That temperatures rose at the end of the Ice Age was also indicated by C. E. P. Brooks who claimed that in the interim between 8,000 and 4,000 years ago, Earth was 5 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than it is at present.4 As Peter James and Nick Thorpe reported: "In 1998 scientists working on ice cores from Greenland announced that just over 11,000 years ago the temperature shot up by 9 to 18 degrees Fahrenheit. .. in possibly less than a single decade. ..."
_[It] would be enough to destabilize the entire present northern ice cap.6
_ As Ian Johnson reported through his study of Arctic regions: "After the Pliocene/Pleistocene boundary, Arctic climatic conditions became chaotic, with repeated glaciations and annual temperature extremes exceeding 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
_p.388 As he continues to inform us, the Danish glaciologist Claus Hammer had reached the conclusion that the Pleistocene Ice Age ended about 10,400 years ago when the average temperature around the world rose 10 degrees Celsius in only 20 years.2
_their study of isotopic variation in the abundance of foraminifera in sea sediments, coupled with ice core readings, was enough to show that the "ice age ended suddenly 11,500 years ago."6
[ICE SHEET NOT RELATED TO POLAR ICE CAPS]
_there was no direct connection between the Ice Age and Earth's present polar caps.
_The freezing of the Arctic, which obviously came later, was the result of an entirely different, even if related, mechanism.7
_p.389-390 with the one exception noted below, [the] few tales [myths] which tell of the melting of the ice all happen to come from the original inhabitants of North America. ... What this tells us ... is that the ancestors of the Amerinds had been living close to the glaciated areas of North America, if not actually within the periphery of some of those locales. Those living within the ice-free Arctic regions would have had but little contact with the [ice sheet and its] eventual melting. Those far to the south of the frozen lands would only have experienced the flooding that followed. The one exception ... comes from the Scandinavians. ... Out of the mist which rose from the melting of the glaciers was engendered a frost giant [the Saturn configuration] out of whose body Creation was said to have been initiated. 1 The ancestors of these people, too, must therefore have abided in proximity to the ice [sheet]....
[GREAT CANADIAN LAKE AGASSIZ]
_p.393 Lake Agassiz, in western Canada ... covered a region much vaster than ... the continent's five Great Lakes. It, too, was drained when the ice damming it gave way. The flood released by the lake surged in at least three directions, north, west, and south, disrupting sea currents even in the Arctic Ocean.4 The shoreline of this extinct lake, as Warren Upham realized, is not horizontal,5 which, again, speaks for a catastrophic disturbance of the land.
[COMMENT: Randall Carlson explains in his videos that ice dams could not hold large lakes.]
_p.406 the ice contained in the northern hemisphere alone during the Ice Age was definitely more than half the present Antarctic ice....
[RISING LANDS]
_p.410 The Great Plain of the Koakjuaq in Baffin Island within the Arctic Circle was created "a mere 8,000 years ago" with the rising of the bottom of the Arctic Sea.3 As already noted, however, the process continues to this day.
_as noted by D. Schneider: "Some regions, such as Scandinavia, are still springing back after being crushed by massive glaciers during the last ice age. Such postglacial rebound explains why sea level measured in Stockholm appears to be falling at about four millimeters a year, whereas it is rising by one and a half millimeter a year in Honolulu, a more stable spot."4
[MAMMOTHS OUTLIVED THE ICE AGE]
_p.453 mammoths did not become extinct at the end of the Ice Age. In Arctic regions they continued to exist until the next cosmic onslaught thousands of years later.6 And even then, a species of dwarf mammoth survived on Wrangel Island in eastern Siberia from 3,800 to 3,500 years ago - some "700 years after the Egyptians built their great pyramids at Giza."7 But while these facts have been pounced upon by past catastrophists, they do nothing to alleviate the problem in North America where Pleistocene pachyderms, to say nothing of other mammals, did not survive. Four species of mammoth and three types of mastodon vanished completely from the continent.8
[MASSIVE UNDERWATER LANDSLIDE]
_p.485 [One of the known] massive landslides occurs off the coast of Norway in the form of a 1,000-foot high cliff at the edge of the continental shelf. The floor of the ocean at this point has been dated to have dropped about 8,200 years ago. The landslide that caused it "was one of the greatest in Earth's history."4 The magnitude of this slide was reported by Kunzig on the authority of Jiirgen Mienert: "Blocks of mud perhaps 20 miles long, a couple of miles wide, and 150 feet high rushed down the slope. More than 1,000 cubic miles of sediment and rock shifted. The slide ran out 500 miles to the northwest, north of Iceland, where it met the MidAtlantic Ridge and was diverted south. Over an area of 35,000 square miles, the whole ocean was as muddy as the Mississippi after a storm, and the seafloor was wiped clean of whatever lived there."5 Moreover, as Mienert has deduced, the slide occurred "in a very short time ... perhaps in a few weeks, perhaps a few days, perhaps a couple of hours."6 "The disturbance propagated a tsunami that flooded coastal areas as far away as Scotland.
_[It's possible] that the slide and various others around the world which have not yet been recognized were caused by the temporary slowing down of Earth's rotation due to proto-Saturn's flare-up.
[COMMENT: I don't think Cardona provided any calculations to show how much a Saturn flare would have slowed down the Earth and in how much time. I think the slowing would have to have been very sudden to cause a huge landslide. It seems like impacts would be more likely to cause a sudden jolt that could do that. Saturn flares may have slowed Earth's rotation a bit, as he said solar flares are known to do, but I won't readily believe that Saturn flares would cause the needed jolts.]
_p.485 [Continued] ... pockmarks "are turning out to be extremely common, especially in the Arctic" and Mienert "has seen fields of them in the Barents Sea."3 That these pockmarks could not be extremely old is evidenced by the fact that they have not yet been filled by sediment washing down to the sea from inland rivers. Thus, as Kunzig rightly surmises, these pockmarks "date from the last ice age."
[GLOBAL CLIMATIC SHIFT DUE TO SATURN NOVA]
_p.488 electrical cqnductivity measurements on Greenland ice cores [have] shown that, in the late Pleistocene, Earth's climatic system "consistently and frequently" changed "between glacial and near-interglacial conditions in periods of less than a decade, and on occasion as quickly as three years."4 From this one may suspect that, since the evidence comes from Greenland, these sudden climatic shifts would only have affected Arctic and near-Arctic latitudes. But confirmation that this sudden climatic shift at the end of the Ice Age was global in extent came from the study of a dry lake bed in New Mexico.5 Moreover, evidence from ocean sediment cores have also indicated similar "rapid changes in sea surface temperatures."6
_p.488-489 What the Greenland ice cores really indicate is that there was a sudden increase in terrestrial heat "just over 11,000 years ago" when "the temperature shot up by 9 to 18 degrees Fahrenheit ... in possibly less than a single decade." 1
_Recent research ... indicates that variations in cosmic ray activity and magnetized plasma are more important in raising world-wide temperatures [than CO2 is]. Of course, these energetic particles are believed to have emanated from the Sun.3 Needless to say, in our own scenario they would have been shed by proto-Saturn during its momentous flare-up.
[DURATION OF THE STONE AGE]
_p.505 Mark Harrison has ... recently announced that the earliest signs of life that had thus far been detected come from within the Arctic Circle. This revelation was so radical it immediately came under severe attack, although Harrison has done an excellent job in rebutting the criticism raised against the hypothesis. What is now additionally ascertained is that the "duration of the Ice Age ... matches the duration of the Early Stone Age, or Paleolithic."6 And that: "Throughout the whole of the Pleistocene ... the cultural level of the ancestors of modern humans remained essentially unchanged."7

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:24 pm

130548

3100BC AUSTRIA IMPACT: PRO & CON

__[PRO] A Sumerian Observation of the Köfels' Impact Event: A Monograph
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=15649
Author(s): Bond, A.; Hempsell, M.
Date: 2008
__Abstract:
_Around 700 BC an Assyrian scribe in the Royal Place at Nineveh made a copy of one of the most important documents in the royal collection. Two and a half thousand years later it was found by Henry Layard in the remains of the palace library. It ended up in the British Museum's cuneiform clay tablet collection as catalogue No. K8538 (also called the Planisphere), where it has puzzled scholars for over a hundred and fifty years. In this monograph Bond and Hempsell provide the first comprehensive translation of the tablet, showing it to be a contemporary Sumerian observation of an Aten asteroid over a kilometre in diameter that impacted Kofels in Austria in the early morning of 29th June 3123 BC.

_[CON] [REVIEW]
_Vira rated it: it was ok - Two stars for the brazenness of it.
_Full of confirmation bias. The authors set out with a hypothesis that Köfels, in Austria, was the site of a major near-Earth object impact. They then ignore or dismiss any evidence to the contrary.
_There is no evidence for an impact at Köfels on the 29th June 3123 BC (The date they give). No crater and so no ejecta, no impact glass, no impactor remains, no elements and isotopes associated with meteoroids, etc.
_Their attention is drawn to a cuneiform tablet (K8538) in the British Museum. “We had a clear context regarding what the tablet might be about.” The tablet is seventh century BC, but they believe it to be a copy of an earlier one dating from 3123 BC. They decide it shows a Sumerian observation of an impact event at Köfels.
Suspect science here. The authors use the Shoemaker/Levy 9 Jupiter impact as a model for the alleged Köfels impact. Except the SL-9 impact was in a gaseous atmosphere.
Oh and it [the Köfels impact] caused “conflagration of any exposed combustible material, including people” with its Jovian style back plume, yet left no evidence on the ground (except for pottery from Hvar; one fragment represents the asteroid, “at around 150 km altitude” and shows “the supersonic shockwave … marked out by the ionised air, before the object itself becomes luminous due to heating.” Another shows the early mushroom cloud phase of the plume).

__[PRO] Controversial 5,500-Year-Old Sumerian Star Map Of Ancient Nineveh Reveals Observation Of Köfels’ Impact Event
https://www.ancientpages.com/2018/12/28 ... act-event/
December 28, 2018, Ellen Lloyd
_Did ancient Sumerians observe and record the impact of the Aten asteroid over 5,000 years ago?
_For over 150 years scientists have tried to solve the mystery of a controversial cuneiform clay tablet that indicates the so-called Köfel's impact event was observed in ancient times.
_The Sumerian star map shows people observing and recording Köfels' impact more than 5,500 years ago.
_The circular stone-cast tablet was recovered from the 650 BC underground library of King Ashurbanipal in Nineveh, Iraq in the late 19th century. Long thought to be an Assyrian tablet, computer analysis has matched it with the sky above Mesopotamia in 3300 BC and proves it to be of much more ancient Sumerian origin.
_The tablet is an "Astrolabe," the earliest known astronomical instrument. It consists of a segmented, disk-shaped star chart with marked units of angle measure inscribed upon the rim.
_Unfortunately, considerable parts of the planisphere on this tablet are missing (approximately 40%), damage which dates to the sacking of Nineveh. The reverse of the tablet is not inscribed.
_Still, under study by modern scholars, the cuneiform tablet in the British Museum collection No K8538 (known as "the Planisphere") provides extraordinary proof for the existence of sophisticated Sumerian astronomy.
_In 2008 two authors, Alan Bond and Mark Hempsell published a book about the tablet called "A Sumerian Observation of the Kofels' Impact Event".
_Raising a storm in archaeological circles, they re-translated the cuneiform text and assert the tablet records an ancient asteroid strike, the Köfels' Impact, which struck Austria sometime around 3100 BC.
_The giant landslide centered at Köfels in Austria is 500 m thick and five kilometers in diameter and has long been a mystery since geologists first looked at it in the 19th century.
_The conclusion drawn by research in the middle 20th century was that it must be due to a very large meteor impact because of the evidence of crushing pressures and explosions.
_But this view lost favor as a much better understanding of impact sites developed in the late 20th century.
_In the case of Köfels there is no crater, so to modern eyes, it does not look as an impact site should look. However, the evidence that puzzled the earlier researchers remains unexplained by the view that it is just another landslide.
_So what is the connection between the sophisticated Sumerian star chart discovered in the underground library in Nineveh and the mysterious impact that took place in Austria?
_Examination of the clay tablet reveals that it is an astronomical work as it has drawings of constellations on it and the text has known constellation names. It has attracted a lot of attention but in over a hundred years nobody has come up with a convincing explanation as to what it is.
_With modern computer programs that can simulate trajectories and reconstruct the night sky thousands of years ago, the researchers have established what the Planisphere tablet refers to. It is a copy of the night notebook of a Sumerian astronomer as he records the events in the sky before dawn on 29 June 3123 BC (Julian calendar).
_Half the tablet records planet positions and cloud cover, the same as any other night, but the other half of the tablet records an object large enough for its shape to be noted even though it is still in space.
_The astronomers made an accurate note of its trajectory relative to the stars, which to an error better than one degree is consistent with an impact at Köfels.
_The observation suggests the asteroid is over a kilometer in diameter and the original orbit about the Sun was an Aten type, a class of asteroid that orbit close to the earth, that is resonant with the Earth's orbit.
_This trajectory explains why there is no crater at Köfels. The incoming angle was very low (six degrees) and means the asteroid clipped a mountain called Gamskogel above the town of Längenfeld, 11 kilometers from Köfels, and this caused the asteroid to explode before it reached its final impact point. As it traveled down the valley it became a fireball, around five kilometers in diameter (the size of the landslide).
_When it hit Köfels it created enormous pressures that pulverized the rock and caused the landslide but because it was no longer a solid object it did not create a classic impact crater.
_Mark Hempsell, discussing the Köfels event, said: "Another conclusion can be made from the trajectory. The back plume from the explosion (the mushroom cloud) would be bent over the Mediterranean Sea re-entering the atmosphere over the Levant, Sinai, and Northern Egypt.
_"The ground heating though very short would be enough to ignite any flammable material - including human hair and clothes. It is probable more people died under the plume than in the Alps due to the impact blast."
_In other words, the remarkable ancient star map shows that the Sumerians made an observation of an Aten asteroid over a kilometer in diameter that impacted Köfels in Austria in the early morning of 29th June 3123 BC.

__[PRO] Köfels Impact Event
https://www.conservapedia.com/K%C3%B6fels_Impact_Event
_The Köfels Impact Event was originally assumed to be a massive rockslide that occurred in the valley of Ötztal, Tirol, Austria, and discovered in the mid-19th century. A reevaluation of the evidence led researchers to believe that the valley may have been hit by a small asteroid around 3120 B.C.; the record of the observation of this event was carved into a Sumerian clay tablet known as "the Planisphere".
__Contents
1 The valley landslide
2 The "Planisphere"
3 Sodom and Gommorah?
4 References
__The valley landslide
_The landslide at Köfels, Austria is three miles long and a quarter-mile wide, with a determined volume of the rockslide mass set at 3.28 km3 [1]. Since it was found, geologists have pronounced it a mystery, but even then settled on the explanation that it may have been hit by a meteorite due to explosion and pressure evidence. Modern studies, however, settled on "deep creep" (masses of bedrock sag downhill on steep mountain-sides [1]) as late as 1997, the sag resulting in the landslide.
__The "Planisphere"
_Roughly dating to 700 B.C., the Sumerian tablet called the "Planisphere" (No. K8538, British Museum) was found in the 1850s by archaeologist Henry Layard in the ruins of the royal palace library at Nineveh, in what is now Iraq. Round in shape, and about 6 inches in diameter, the tablet has frustrated scholars for over 150 years; a new look at it (2007-8) indicated it may have been a copy of an earlier tablet recording an astronomical observation of the fall of an asteroid, which according to computer models took place on June 29, 3123 B.C. Although much of the tablet records planetary positions, the trajectory of the asteroid was recorded, giving a remarkably-accurate (within one degree) path for the asteroid in the direction of Köfels [2].
_The recorded observation suggested that the asteroid was an Aten - a type which orbits close to earth - and was over a kilometre in diameter. The descent angle was calculated to have been six degrees, striking a mountain (Gamskogel, near Längenfeld, Austria), causing it to explode; the fireball caused the damage to the Köfels valley, creating the pressure damage observed by geologists, but not an impact crater had the asteroid been solid [3].
__Sodom and Gommorah?
_In discussing the Köfels event, geologist Mark Hempsell stated "Another conclusion can be made from the trajectory. The back plume from the explosion (the mushroom cloud) would be bent over the Mediterranean Sea re-entering the atmosphere over the Levant, Sinai, and Northern Egypt. The ground heating though very short would be enough to ignite any flammable material - including human hair and clothes. It is probable more people died under the plume than in the Alps due to the impact blast" [4]. The falling material from the explosion would have been consistent with the rain of "fire and brimstone" upon the cites of Sodom and Gommorah, which were located in the Levant near the southern end of the Dead Sea.
__References
"Cause effect models of large mass movements", article from Vienna Institute of Geodesy and Geophysics
"Cuneiform clay tablet translated for the first time", news item from the Times of London
Example of "deep creep"
http://wrgis.wr.usgs.gov/parks/olym/olym20.html

__[PRO] Kofels impact
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/kofels-impact.79254/
__Title: Fused rock from Köfels, Tyrol
_The vesicular glass from Köfels, Tyrol, contains grains of quartz that have been partially melted but not dissolved in the matrix glass. This phenomenon has been observed in similar glasses formed by friction along a thrust fault and by meteorite impact, but not in volcanic glasses. The explosion of a small nuclear device buried behind a steep slope produced a geologic structure that is a good small-scale model of that at Köfels. Impact of a large meteorite would have an effect analogous to that of a subsurface nuclear explosion and is the probable cause of the Köfels feature.
_Latitude: 47° 7'12.00"N, Longitude: 10°55'12.00"E
_Diameter: 4 km
_Age: 9800 ±100 million years
_The ancient sumerians used very sophisticated astronomical calculations. No civilization would utilize such sciences unless they needed it for a reason. The origins of their knowledge is reflected in their so called myths. However a majority of their tablets are yet to be decyphered, only a handful of linguistics are able to do so at present.

__[CON] Köfels Feature Not a Meteorite / Comet Impact
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/kofels-impact.79254/
_The melted rock associated with this landslide was identified as "frictionite" created by frictional heat generated by the landslide, the largest in Europe....
_There is an extensive discussion of the Köfels landslide and the non-impact formation of the frictionite, which it contains....
_In case of the Köfels landslide, Sorenson et al. (2003) concluded: “Analysis of the Köfels sturzstrom seems to indicate that most aspects can be explained without recourse to exotic emplacement scenarios. The bulk of the material the debris from an energetic but conventional landslide.”
_They found none of the evidence used to argue for the Köfels landslide being of impact origin to be credible. For example, they found the alleged "shock quartz" discussed in earlier published abstracts was neither "shock quartz" nor formed by an impact. Rather, it was a pseudoshocked quartz created during the landslide.
_Both the "Diameter: 4 km" and "Age: 9800 ±100 million years" are incorrect. It is not a circular feature and, thus, has no diameter. Concerning the age of the Köfels landslide, Hermanns et al. (2006) stated: “Pieces of wood recovered from a reconnaissance gallery in the Tauferberg gave a conventional 14C age of 8710+/-150 years BP (Heuberger, 1966), and an AMS 14C age of 8705+/-55 years BP (Ivy-Ochs et al., 1998),”
_There are two other key facts at Kofels that cannot be reconciled with the new hypothesis:
1. On top of the landslide deposit are intact fluvial deposits. These have been scooped out of the vaKöfels
2. The landslide deposit includes blocks that have been displaced >1 km. They are entirely fractured but the consitutent pieces are still in the correct position. This is entirely consistent with other massive landslide deposits, but they are not consistent with a fireball, surely?
_I have discussed this new hypothesis with several of the world leaders in massive rock slope failure over the last few days. None believe that the postulated mechanism is credible for Kofels.
_It seems strange that the writers chose to make the connection with the Kofels landslide and Sumerian observations recorded on a clay tablet. There are meteor impact sites in the Middle East that could have been used instead. Some impactors would have been quite large and recent, and more importantly witnessed by humans.

__[COMMENT: If the landslide at Köfels is the largest in Europe, not counting the one in the North Sea off the coast of Norway, some catastrophic event must have caused it. If not an impact, then what? Cardona thought the one in the North Sea was caused by a Saturn flare that caused the Earth to suddenly rotate more slowly. But that seems implausible to me, like if you use a magnet to stop a fast-rolling iron toy truck. The magnet could stop it, but hitting a large enough solid object would stop it much more suddenly, and make it dump its load, like a landslide. An asteroid or other meteor would be the solid object that would stop it abruptly.]

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:42 pm

131727

MORE SEARCH RESULTS FOR ARCTIC IN CARDONA'S BOOKS

METAMORPHIC STAR
__[CAUSE OF FORMERLY WARM ARCTIC]
_p.54-55 Not only were these regions [in the Arctic Circle] free of ice, they actually basked in a sub-tropical climate, something that even Charles Lyell, the father of uniformitarianism, was compelled to acknowledge.7 With miles-deep ice in more southern latitudes, the only way in which the Arctic Circle could have remained free of ice was if there really had been a source of heat stationed right above. This is additionally intimated by evidence which indicates that Arctic regions were not only warmer than at present during past geological ages, they were even warmer than more southerly regions, in fact warmer than anywhere else on Earth.5 These regions were originally covered with luxurious forests, the remains of which continue to baffle paleontologists. The large size of the leaves discovered in these forests led Leo Hickey to a conclusion that he himself believed impossible, that these forests "grew under conditions of continuous light."1
__[FOSSILS INDICATING FORMERLY WARM ARCTIC]
_p.55-56 Dinosaurs ..., as strange as it may sound to most, ... thrived mostly in the Arctic. Dinosaur remains have been found in Alaska's North Slope within the Arctic Circle,1 and even deeper within the Circle on Bylot Island, off the north coast of Baffin Island.2 Polar dinosaurs were eventually discovered at 15 different Arctic sites.3 By the turn of the twentieth century, what was considered as possibly the densest concentration of dinosaur fossils in the entire world had come to light within the same Arctic Circle.4 ... What this means is that dinosaurs thrived best within Earth's Arctic regions and this, again, calls for an entirely different directional heat source.
_p.56-57 The sub-tropical nature of the Arctic's past climate is also evidenced by the remains of reptiles and mammals that followed the demise of the dinosaurs. ... [I.e.] crocodiles and alligators, ... the ancestors of the horse and rhinoceros, giant lizards, land tortoises, salamanders, snakes, even flying lemurs and tapirs,2 to say nothing of parrots,3 the descendants of which now live in equatorial forests - all of which testify to the warmth of the climate during the Eocene epoch. So, also, do the remains of palm trees and huge exotic ferns.4 To all that one can also add the discovery of human Stone Age settlements during the last Ice Age in the New Siberian Islands, as well as Spitzbergen, archipelagos which are presently much too cold for general habitation.5 Antarctica had also thrived in unglaciated warmth,6 where even dinosaurs seem to have roamed around in an ice-free environment,7 but this transpired during those long balmy periods between ice ages. No part of the continent was ever free of ice during periods of glaciation in other parts of the world.8
__[COMMENT: Mike Fischer concluded that Antarctica is a combination of a former island and a former part of the supercontinent, Pangaea. The part that was an island was already close to the south pole and might have frozen over after the Great Flood, but the part that came from Pangaea likely remained warm until Pangaea broke up about 500 years after the Great Flood. Northern North America and northern Eurasia were likely not much within the Arctic Circle until Pangaea broke up. Likewise, the continental part of Antarctica that came from Pangaea was not within the Antarctic Circle until that time. So it would not have been frozen before that. Only the island part would have been frozen for 500 years before the continental part.]
_p.187 As described in detail in a previous volume, and succinctly noted in our thirteenth hypothesis,2 what we, following an intuition by Ken Moss, surmise is that ice ages were caused by the perpetual shadow cast on a ribbon of land that circled Earth's polar latitudes, while leaving Arctic regions bathed in proto-Saturn's direct beams. This is what accounts for the fact that Arctic regions teemed with warmth-loving beasts and plants through all of Earth's past glaciations.3
[COMMENT: But there was only one glaciation.]
__[WE'RE IN TWO GALAXIES]
_p.97-98 it has been denied that our Solar System actually belongs to Sagittarius [dwarf galaxy] rather than the Milky Way as others had proclaimed,7 [but] the very fact that Sagittarius is cutting across our Galaxy at right angles through the very region which harbors the Solar System just about speaks for itself.8 What might be more telling is the additional fact that the Solar System's ecliptic plane, and thus its axial tilt, aligns with the oblique slant of Sagittarius and not the Milky Way. Nor am I speaking out of turn since astrophysicists themselves have realized that several stellar clusters which had previously been thought to be the Milky Way's progeny actually came from Sagittarius.1
[COMMENT: I think Cardona said back in 2011 or so that the solar system came from the Milky Way, but the Saturn system and Earth came from the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy. Here he may be saying that both came from Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy. I may have to read more closely later. If Saturn came from SagDG and Sun came from MilkyWay, then Saturn was not likely on an elliptical orbit within the solar system, but more likely on a spiraling orbit from outside moving inward.]
__[GLOBAL IMPACTS LIKE CAROLINA BAYS]
_p.158-159 so-called rainwater basins, which are similar depressions to the Carolina Bays, also occur in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska. And these, too, happen to bear a general orientation, but toward the northeast rather than the northwest. And yet, as Firestone was sure to mention,6 given their geographical locality, this also tends to align their long axes in the general direction of the Great Lakes.7 There are others that Firestone could have mentioned, such as the oriented lakes that pepper the 25,000 square-mile area along the arctic coastal plain of north Alaska. As with the Carolina Bays, they exist in tens of thousands and come in different sizes from a few feet to nine miles long. Like the Carolina Bays, they are generally elliptical in shape and, while they also sometimes overlap, they mostly occur in rows that are parallel to each other.8 And, still very much like the Carolina Bays, most of their alignments lie in a northwest-southeast direction.9 As if that's not enough, so, similarly, in the Yukon.10 But why restrict such scars to North America? 20,000 square kilometers - over 7,700 square miles - of the ocean bottom in the middle of the North Sea is so pockmarked with craters it has been likened to "a miniature lunar landscape." Although not as large as the ones so far mentioned, these craters, too, are said to be elliptical in shape with a shared directional alignment.1 Similarly aligned, even if still smaller, depressions are also to be found in Siberia,2 Holland,3 and even Bolivia4 and Chile5 in South America. It is highly improbable that a single bolide exploding above the Great Lakes region, or anywhere over the Laurentide Ice Sheet, would have flung its cosmic debris, east and west, north and south, scarring the land in all these countries. Such a wide dispersal can best be visualized as the result of more than one explosive event. Among other matters to which we shall soon come, an approach of the cosmic debris in question from an explosion above the Great Lakes is belied by the very Charity Shoal in one of the very lakes that Firestone introduced as evidence. If anything, this depression should be aligned to the southeast for it to fall in line with the general direction of the impactors at the Carolina Bays. On the contrary, as indicated by its elongated tapering ridge, Charity's alignment is in the opposite direction toward the southwest,6 which indicates an approach from the northeast. Besides which, it is not known exactly when the feature was created.7 Although, as already noted, the Pleistocene keeps cropping up in relation to the formation, it was definitely in existence "prior to the last glacial advance,"8 and could not therefore have anything to do with the so-called Clovis Comet.
[COMMENT: I didn't know about most of those other impacts that are similar to the Carolina Bays. I think most of them could have been caused the same way, by impacts on the North American ice sheet, but probably from several locations, instead of just one.]
__[REMAINS OF SATURN'S NOVA ON SATURN]
_p.280 [A] feature that speaks in favor of Saturn's present south polar storm as a vestige of its primordial flare-up ... consists of the high temperature associated with that very pole. While Saturn continues to leak its own internal heat, its south pole has surprisingly been found to be 60° C (108° F) higher than at the planet's equator.

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:39 pm

133636
ICE IMPACT CRATERS IN S. GEORGIA, US
Part 3: Carolina Bays and the Okefenokee Swamp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCbDMFVI1gc
[COMMENT: This shows that the Carolina Bays (ice impact craters) extend into southern Georgia.]

TWO ICE SHEET IMPACTS
Carolina Bays -- A Tale of Two Impacts...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bilyP7Xv-l4
[COMMENT: It's very plausible that there were more than one impact site on the North American ice sheet, as Dabbler shows, but he dates them many thousands of years apart, whereas in reality they likely occurred on nearly the same day.
_NOTE: The bays were very likely formed from ice boulders that were ejected from meteor impacts on the ice sheet in the Michigan area and in southeast Canada.]


ICE SHEET IMPACTS MILLENNIA APART? NOPE.
Paleo-Atlantic Shorelines and the Carolina Bays (Parts 1-3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gF_g4bLDEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjiGEEhYbwk&t=73s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILLXgq7yunI&t=150s
[COMMENT: Dabbler thinks there were two or more major impacts on the North American ice sheet several hundred thousand years apart, based on conventional dating of ancient Atlantic shorelines. Of course, conventional dating is way wrong and the shorelines were likely only a few months or years apart, instead of hundreds of thousands of years.
_Dabbler's channel has some more videos about the Carolina Bays and related subjects.
https://www.youtube.com/c/DabblersDen/videos
_Sometimes he comments on Antonio Zamora's videos, which latter are at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM8bvh ... GTA/videos

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:51 pm

133906

Note: I posted about Carolina Bays above.

MORE SEARCHES ON ARCTIC FROM CARDONA'S BOOKS

PRIMORDIAL STAR
__[ANCIENT BROWN DWARF SATURN'S HEAT & DISTANCE]
_p.9-10 As Andrew Ackerman of NASA's Ames Research Center explained, "brown dwarfs appear as a faint glow, like an ember from a fire that gives off both heat and light energy as it dims." Even so, although "25,000 times fainter than the sun, brown dwarfs are still incredibly hot, with temperatures as high as 3,140 degrees Fahrenheit (2,000 Kelvin)."1 "What can we expect from a planet orbiting such a star?" asked Philip Plait.2 "For one thing [he answered], it must huddle closer to its star to receive as much warmth as we enjoy here. To give the planet a more earthlike temperature, we'd have to drop it to just 6 million kilometers from the star's surface, or about one-tenth the distance of Mercury from the Sun. From this distance even the tiny red dwarf would look about five times bigger than the Sun in our sky."3
_In our case, with Earth's dwarf primary permanently located in the north celestial pole, the dwarf star's rays would have reached Earth's north pole vertically, thus ensuring a perpetual warmth within the regions of the Arctic Circle. And while the dwarf's rays would have been slanted enough to keep the more southerly latitudes somewhat cooler, the reflection of heat off proto-Saturn's plasmaspheric shell would have actually been able to keep all terrestrial latitudes warm enough for the inception and sustenance of life.2
[COMMENT: I'm not confident that the plasmaspheric envelope would reflect heat or light, but it seems important for Cardona's model. By the way, a brown dwarf would be smaller than a red dwarf, I think, so proto-Saturn would probably need to have been closer than 6 million kilometers, i.e. closer than 3.73 million miles.]
__[ARCTIC ORIGIN OF LIFE]
_p.19 In view of our posited placement of the proto-Saturnian sun in Earth's north celestial pole, it comes as no surprise that the earliest signs of life so far detected actually come from within the Arctic Circle - Akilia Island, West Greenland to be exact.
_This evidence came from the study and tests conducted on micron-sized carbonaceous globules retrieved from marine sediments at Akilia Island rather than from recognizable microfossils.
[COMMENT: Akilia Island is on the edge of the Arctic Circle. But Greenland and the rest of North America were likely farther south before the Pangaea supercontinent broke up and North America and Asia were pushed northward a few hundred miles. It's also possible that the North Pole was formerly in another location.]
__[NUCLEAR WINTERS AFTER IMPACTS?]
_p.251 The belief that a nuclear winter followed the theorized impact of the asteroid that supposedly finished off the dinosaurs received its greatest setback with the discovery of dinosaur remains on Alaska's North Slope within the Arctic Circle.1
_William Clemens, one of the discoverers of these Arctic dinosaurs ... [argued] that the Alaskan members survived the extinction event because they had long become adapted to the cold ...3 But even he could not help mentioning that the "nearby Arctic Ocean, warm in those tropical days, would have sufficiently moderated the climate."4 He [didn't say] why the Arctic Ocean would have been warm in the first place.
[COMMENT: Cardona obviously thought it was from direct heat from polar Saturn.]
__[UNFOSSILIZED DINOSAUR BONES]
_An additional anomaly concerning these Arctic dinosaurs is that their bones were not fossilized - in other words, their remains were not mineralized. They were described as being "almost like modern bone."5
[COMMENT: This helps prove that dinosaurs lived recently & mostly died out during the Great Flood.]
__[WARM ARCTIC]
_Dinosaur remains were also found by Canadian researchers even deeper within the Arctic Circle on Bylot Island, off the north coast of Baffin Island.6 Again it was estimated that, at the time, "Bylot Island had a climate like northern California."?
__[SAME LATITUDE]
_magnetic measurements revealed that the paleolatitude in which the bones were discovered had been "about the same (70 degrees NL) as today's latitude."1
__[ARCTIC DINOSAUR SITES]
_p.252-253 By the end of 1992, polar dinosaurs had been discovered at 15 different sites.4
_By the turn of the [21st] century, what was considered as "possibly" being "the densest concentration of saurian fossils in the world" had come to light within the Arctic Circle.6 Palaeontologists had known about this dinosaur bone area, named the Kikak-Tegoseak bed, "but not its remarkable density."7
__[FLOOD KILLED DINOSAURS]
_According to Fiorillo, these dinosaurs "probably died together in a flood or other catastrophe."11
_That they did not die a normal death is indicated by the fact that, as of 2004, a single complete skeleton had yet to be discovered anywhere in Alaska.1
__[ARCTIC & ANTARCTIC DINOSAURS & DIM LIGHT ADAPTATION]
_p.254-255 Dinosaurs were also discovered in southern Australia which, at the time, is believed to have been snuggled right against Antarctica.
_What led [Tom] Rich to suggest that "dinosaurs could have been running around in the dark" was not only their polar locality, but also the skull of a chicken-sized ornithischian which contained "cavities for very large optic lobes." These large optic lobes "suggest" that the ornithischian in question "had enhanced night vision for polar living."5 Might we, perhaps, "suggest" that this enhancement in such a diminutive member of the dinosaurian family had evolved in order to allow the creature better sight in the dimmer light radiated by the proto-Saturnian sun?
_Never mind southern Australia, dinosaurs were also eventually discovered on Seymour Island just off the Antarctic Peninsula. ... Remains of the mesosaurs and plesiosaurs discovered there are known to be sub-tropical creatures.
_dinosaur remains have also been found on the Antarctic continent itself. Just as telling is the fact that "fossilized leaves and other plant remains suggest that during the dinosaurs' day Antarctica had a temperate climate."1
_As pointed out in our earlier work,3 the eyes of archosaur rhodopsins were not only suited to night vision, but better still to redder wavelengths,4 which would have served them well in the dim red light radiated by the sub-brown dwarf star that was proto-Saturn. And mammals, too, right after the exiting dinosaurs, were probably "nocturnal" creatures as surmised by David Archibald.5
_But back to the Arctic. The dinosaurian Troodon has also been noted for its "exceptionally large eyes." As Fiorillo rightly noted: "Among modern animals, proportionately large eyes tend to be an adaptation for living in low light conditions."6
_That dinosaurs faired well within the Arctic circle is additionally evidenced by the fact that Troodon is not only considered to have been rare in more southerly latitudes, it achieved "nearly twice the size of Troodon in more southern locations."9 ... the same type of dinosaurs that thrived in Alaska also lived "in toastier environments farther south, such as Montana and even Texas."10
_p.256-257 With a different although dimmer sun suspended permanently, but much closer, in Earth's north celestial pole, all these problems [of a formerly warm Arctic & thriving biosphere] disappear. Despite the age of semi-darkness which we discussed in our previous works,1 the Arctic regions would have received perpetual light, no matter how dim, and sufficient heat with no intervening months of total gloom. Dinosaurs would then have proliferated without the need to hibernate or migrate to other regions since there would have been no onset of cold weather. And while Earth received a major portion of its heat and light through reflection off its encasing plasmasphere, the Arctic would have received a fair amount of additional heat and light directly from the sub-stellar sun positioned precisely above that region.
__[POLAR COLUMN, FLOOD, FLARE & ICE AGE]
_Under our scheme, Earth's northern regions would have received the brunt of proto-Saturn's radiative flare-up. Life in those zones should have therefore suffered more. Signs of extinction should be more abundant than anywhere else on the planet. In fact, as Gould noted, plant species in Alaska, Northern Canada, and Siberia "suffered heavy losses" while those in the tropics "were scarcely affected by the Cretaceous extinction."1
_"The southern hemisphere was relatively spared: the areas of greatest disruption being western North America and eastern Siberia."4
_p.258 Fiorillo's surmise that the Arctic dinosaurs met their end in a flood finds correspondence in our scenario. The flood, of course, could have been the result of the encroaching ocean once Earth changed its rotational speed. But I hold a different opinion. As we have already explained, proto-Saturn's Birkeland current which stretched between it and Earth had a tornadic quality4 which would have sucked [up] a great quantity of northern waters which it then held in suspension. Once this polar columnar "jet" retracted,5 it would have released its voluminous water content, which would have fallen in a colossal torrential downpour on Earth's north polar neighborhood. ... And since this release of water would have come from the retracting column, the flood it generated would have slightly preceded proto-Saturn's flare-up, and thus also the change in Earth's rotation. The Arctic dinosaurs would have therefore been the first to die.
_p.263 the refrigerated carcasses of the north were not deep-frozen at the beginning of the last Ice Age, but a few thousands years after its end.
__[ARCTIC HUMANS]
_p.264 the discovery of tools, bones, and an incised mammoth tusk, to say nothing of plant remains, ... came to light in 2001 in Russia's Arctic regions and ... have been dated to at least 30,000 years ago.3 As Russian archaeologists have claimed, "spear foreshafts made of mammoth ivory and woolly rhino horn, stone tools, and bones that display signs of butchering" prove that humans were then living in what are now the coldest areas of Siberia.4 ... the remains of plants discovered there7 actually speak for an ice-free environment.
[COMMENT: Sedimentary rock was deposited during the Great Flood ca. 5,000 years ago and in the later Younger Dryas Flood. No artifacts or fossils are likely to be found older than that, so the above dating is likely way wrong, as usual.]
__[GREENLAND WAS WARM]
_p.265-266 while the Greenland ice cap is composed of pure compacted ice, some of its lower sections are still mixed with bottom sludge. Such ... was the case at the famous DYE-3 site. ... genetic material from past remains which included grain, pine, yew, and alder, together with traces of insects such as butterflies, moths, flies, and beetles [was found at the bottom].3 Analysis of fossil DNA from these vestiges indicated ... that there was forest in southern Greenland" which must have had "a relatively mild climate."4 Northern Greenland, too, remained free of glaciers during the Ice Age. Ice core drilling hit bedrock dated to 120,000 years ago and, like their southern counterparts, the retrieved cores showed evidence of vegetation, which would mean that no ice-cap could have existed in Greenland at that time.5
_An ancient tree, with a trunk "thicker than a man's body," still standing upright, was recovered from that vicinity. As Allan and Delair note: "Had this region ever been glaciated ... this tree could never have flourished" while, had it flourished at some previous age, "it would have been demolished and completely removed" by the advancing glaciers.5
__[DENSER PREFLOOD ATMOSPHERE]
_Just as important, further cores from Greenland have revealed that glacial ice dating from 100,000 to 10,000 years ago was different from that which formed later. This earlier ice ... contained an unusual ratio of oxygen isotopes.1 What this indicates is that the Pleistocene ice was formed in a different atmosphere than the later ice which eventually covered what had once been the ice-free pole at the very top of the world. In our scheme, that different atmosphere would have been the one which had enveloped Earth while it was still in tandem with its proto-Saturnian sun outside the demarcation of the Solar System. It was different because proto-Saturn's flare-up at the end of the Pleistocene had not yet lessened its previous greater density.
__[ARCTIC OCEAN BASIN FLOOD & TECTONICS]
_proto-Saturn's ... planetary tornado [or polar column] ... would have [drawn] up any loose material that lay directly beneath it, and this would have included much ... of the water that might have found its way into the Arctic [ocean] depression.3 With such [large tornadic action] over the ages, the Arctic Ocean should either not have existed, or it should have been much diminished, during the Ice Age. This, Flavio Barbiero noted, is evidenced by the fact that Siberia was populated "up to its northernmost regions, well inside the Arctic Sea, by one of the most impressive zoological communities of all times."4 Once the axis retracted itself,5 the water it had held suspended in its vortex would have been released as rain. Additionally, proto-Saturn's immobile placement,6 to say nothing of its close proximity, would have exerted tremendous tectonic influences on the area directly beneath it. Supplementary evidence includes the recently discovered "remarkable hot zone" beneath the Arctic ice "where Earth's thick rocky crust has come apart at the seams and lava and scalding water spew out of volcanoes and hot vents." This zone occurs along the Gakkel Ridge, five kilometers beneath the ice [of the Arctic Ocean], which stretches all the way along the sea floor from Greenland to Siberia. This ridge is still active with at least twenty volcanoes rising from it, one of which erupted in July of 1998. Hydrothermal vents also abound.7 If this is going on at the moment, it would have been occurring during those earlier ages when the Arctic was still free of ice.
[COMMENT: The Gakkel Ridge appears to be an extension of the mid-Atlantic Ridge.]
__[ICE AGE CIRCLE]
_p.267 As Richard Monastersky, cited by [Charles] Ginenthal, reported: "Oceanographers who study deep-sea sediments detect signs that the tropical seas weathered the glacial epoch with remarkable stability, hardly cooling it at all...."2
_And on land, also just beyond the ice sheet's demarcation, at Meadowcroft Rockshelter in Pennsylvania, the remains of animal bones from the site's lower levels, dated around 14,000 years ago, indicate that the area had basked in a warm climate "rather than the icy conditions" that should have existed at the time.3
_the glaciated land of past ice ages constituted a wide ribbon wrapped around Earth's northern hemisphere - an [oval] ice band rather than the usually posited ice cap.
_p.306 Once similar circulating moisture-laden air trespassed into the toroids' shadows back in Earth's primordial times, it would have easily crystallized to precipitate as snow and ice on those areas directly below where it would accumulate and compact into spreading glacial sheets [under the dusty oval auroras]. ... Needless to repeat, the Arctic region would have remained ice-free since not only was it outside the shadowed area, it would also have continued to receive the full impact of proto-Saturn's direct rays.
__[WARM ANTARCTIC & NAPHTHA]
_p.319-320 One of the cores drilled out of the Antarctic ice sheet contained a leaf from a southern beech tree trapped between two ice-deposited gravel beds.10 ... [We previously discussed] downpours of naphtha. ... the core in question also contained a two-meter-thick layer of sand stained with asphalt residue.1) Actually, entire layers of beech leaves were eventually discovered in the Transantarctic Mountains.2
[COMMENT: Naphtha isn't an important topic for me yet. I covered it briefly earlier. I hope to find out eventually what exactly fell to Earth during Saturn flares. Hydrocarbons seem likely and naphtha is a hydrocarbon. Acetylene is a simple hydrocarbon, i.e. C2H2 and it appears to have fallen from Comet Biela in 1871 that likely caused the Chicago fire. Microdiamonds apparently fell to Earth too during Saturn flares, and also nitrogen or ammonia, which likely flash froze Arctic muck that became permafrost.]
__[SATURN'S FLUCTUATING WARMTH]
_p.341 What ... would have caused the ... fluctuations in temperature during the Ice Age ...? Could proto-Saturn's periodic display of spots, far larger than those developed by our present Sun, which would have caused it to dim slightly,3 have been responsible for this?
[COMMENT: I don't know if there is good evidence for such temperature fluctuations during the Ice Age, but it's not on my list of priorities.]
__[ARCTIC PRECIOUS STONES]
_And what can one make of the abundance of precious stones that litter the Arctic region? ... micro-diamonds ... sapphires, emeralds, and rubies.... Emeralds are found in the Yukon, sapphires on Baffin Island. [For] rubies ... "Go to Greenland."6 And, no, I am not referring to gems that are mined out of the land. I am talking about stones that are sprinkled on the surface."

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:22 pm

135120

FINAL SEARCH ON ARCTIC IN CARDONA'S BOOKS
NEWBORN STAR
__[ARCTIC PEOPLE'S BELIEFS]
_p.4 the natives of the Pacific islands and/or Australia, mentioned above, [and] the Eskimos of the Arctic regions ... held on to similar beliefs [that] the world ... always had been there.3 So, likewise, with the ... Tungus in Siberia....4
__[WARM ARCTIC, WARM WORLD]
_p.37-39 The warmth that would have bathed the Arctic regions due to proto-Saturn's permanent fixture in Earth's north polar sky, ... new discoveries continue to provide us with additional verification. Although evidence of the tropical environment that once gripped Ellesmere Island had surfaced in previous scientific reports, a comprehensive study of the region has ... disclosed ... the remains of a "lush, rainforest-like ecosystem" that was home to such warmth-loving creatures as alligators, hippopotamuses, and flying lemurs, "some 40 million years ago."1
_Earth's primordial tropical climate was not restricted to Arctic regions. It enveloped the entire world, as ascertained even by those who are well acquainted with Earth's former fainter sun. While still believing Earth to have had a "chilly beginning," Aaron Gronstal, who then acted as one of NASA's astrobiology integration officers, could still claim that "the surface of the earth was ice-free."7 And this included the now permanently frozen southern continent of Antarctica. "Thirty-eight million years ago," according to the National Science Foundation, "tropical jungles thrived in what are now the cornfields of the American Midwest and furry marsupials wandered temperate forests in what is now the frozen Antarctic."8
__[ANTARCTIC DINOSAURS]
_p.40 based on the bone tissues of some of [the] southern dinosaurs, Holly Woodward found reason to state that "dinosaurs living within the Antarctic Circle were physiologically similar to dinosaurs living everywhere else."1 And yet, it was still declared that these Antarctic dinosaurs actually lived "in the dark for months at a time."2
_Fossils ... discovered on James Ross Island in that continent were ... found to be "... belong[] to a branch of sauropods called titanosaurs,"1 some of the heaviest creatures to ever walk on Earth. ... Our own stand on this matter is the same as that of John Tarduno who was adamant in his claim that the Arctic was warm, and ice free all year round.2
__[ARCTIC BIOLOGICAL CLOCKS]
_p.49 different studies had already shown that Arctic reindeer have "abandoned use of the internal clock that drives the daily biological rhythms in other organisms."3
__[AURORAL ICE AGE]
_p.97 As indicated in detail in previous volumes of this series, the much more energetic dustladen formations of what have now turned into Earth's auroral ovals were responsible for casting circular ribbons of land, south of the Arctic and north of Antarctica, into perpetual shadow. It was the longtime shielding of these shadowed lands from the heat of Earth's primordial proto-Satumian sun that gave rise to the miles-deep glaciation within their borders that account for Earth's series of ice ages.1 In the northern hemisphere, humanity abided north and south of this shadowed belt, since venturing into its glaciated region would have proven too hazardous. And while beasts, including dinosaurs, inhabited the land south of the shadowed demarcation in the southern hemisphere, humanity kept away from what was to become Antarctica. The heat that was emitted by proto-Satum's series of flare-ups was then responsible for the blowing away of these auroral toroids, together with a portion of the terrestrial atmosphere which, in tum, led to the melting of Earth's glaciated regions, bringing ice ages to their end.2
__[SHRINKING ANIMALS]
_p.110 some of the beasts that did survive [the Ice Age] did so in a physically shrunken size. Thus, as one example out of many, some of North America's equine creatures had earlier been much bigger. Although horses eventually disappeared from North America until reintroduced by Spanish colonizers, they were quite prolific in Arctic regions during the Pleistocene epoch. Judging by a fossilized equine skull that has been unearthed out of the Yukon permafrost, some of these horses had to have been giants when compared to modern ones.1
__[FORMER ARCTIC CONTINENT]
_p.121 mytho-historical allusions to ancient events that took place at Earth's north celestial pole are so abundantly persuasive that past researchers have understood them as veiled references to a past circumpolar continent. More than that, according to these [writers], this no longer existing continent was the former site of paradise in which mankind had originated.
_p.122 [Several scientists] reached the conclusion that the Arctic fossils dated to the Miocene epoch of the ... Tertiary period unequivocally point to a no-longer existing polar continent.4
[COMMENT: I believe Cardona thought the land under the Arctic Ocean was originally the site of the base of the polar column, i.e. the base was a large mountain heaped up by the pull of Saturn, but the trunk of the column was gas and dust and maybe water and meteors. I guess that's possible, but the ridge in the Arctic Ocean seems to be an extension of the Mid-Atlantic ridge, which must have formed during the breakup of the supercontinent, Pangaea. Cardona had evidence that a churning magma blob exists under the Arctic Ocean, possibly a remnant from the time of the polar column. The polar continents seem to have all come from farther south at the time of the breakup, but maybe there was a large bulge at the pole, before they moved northward.]
__p.124 MAN'S ARCTIC HOMELAND
_there is no doubt that cultural congregations had settled in [the high Arctic regions] long before proto-Saturn's flare-up some 10,000 years ago. This is proven by the telltale
remains that have been discovered in areas bordering the Arctic Ocean. [I.e.], the Neanderthals2, ... [homo sapiens in] the Bluefish Caves in northern Yukon, [and other human artifacts] in Russia's Arctic regions,5 [as well as] at various sites beneath the present permafrost in Siberia.6 Items [were also] discovered in the New Siberian Islands, ... Spitsbergen, Norway, ... Soroya, off the northern coast of ... Norway, [and] Slettness ... in northern Norway....
__[EVOLVED ROCK ART]
_p.125 All the way from Scandinavia to Siberia, from the Baltic to the Far East, prehistoric rock art illustrates the preoccupation of various ancient cultures, the durability of which is indicated through a pattern of evolution in changing styles and subjects through centuries of occupation.1
__[DNA ARCTIC ORIGIN]
_p.126-127 Despite the fact that DNA links present Amerinds to people in Asia as well as Europe, is it not possible that an original Arctic population colonized all of those three continents?
__[SATURNIAN ROCK ART]
_p.243 "Various ethnic groups of the Arctic and North America likewise envisioned the cosmos as a set of circumambient discs; the Chukchi (northeastern Siberia), for instance, conceived of three worlds ... represented by three concentric circles."1

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:35 pm

136615

ANCIENT SATURN COLORS FROM CARDONA'S BOOKS

GOD STAR
__[RED & GREEN SUNS IN EGYPT]
_p.25 When pictured on the walls of temples and on papyri, Ra is often shown surmounted with a ____red or golden disc, which is not inappropriate if the Sun is truly being represented. In the liturgies dedicated to him, however, Ra is described as having shed a ____green, rather than a golden, light. Thus a hymn to Ra states: "Thou hast come with the splendours, and thou hast made heaven and earth bright with thy rays of pure emerald light."79 In another hymn we read: "O Ra ... the heir of eternity, self-begotten and self-born, king of earth, prince of the netherworld ... thou dost rise in the horizon of heaven and sheddest upon the world beams of emerald light ... "80 Not only did this sun shed a ____green, or emerald, light, it itself was ____green. As Donald Mackenzie informed his readers, in his form of Sebek-Tum-Ra, this sun was the "radiant ____green disk."81 "Hail Green One," was the manner in which Ra was lauded.82
[COMMENT: Cardona hints that the papyri and temple walls are younger than some hymns etc. I.e, the papyri and temple walls would then have been made after the Saturn system broke up and the Sun became the main light source, whereas the hymns were made when Saturn was still the most impressive light source.]
__[SATURN WAS RED AT FIRST]
_p.148 Brown dwarf stars are slightly less massive than [red dwarfs] and are, in fact, just as ____red as the red dwarfs.
_p.158 in keeping with the dim ____red light radiated by brown dwarf stars, the recreated [reptile] archosaur rhodopsin was found to respond best "to slightly ____redder colors than the light that most modern vertebrates sense."6
_p.258 With a sun that shone but dimly ____red that neither rose nor set, that neither waxed nor waned, ancient man had no means of telling the passage of time.7 This was an era which ancient man remembered as a timeless age during which the world was bathed in the dim perpetual light of a pre-dawn sky.
__[BROWN DWARF BRIGHTENING]
_p.333-334 That brown dwarfs have a tendency to brighten has been known since 1977 when the dark partner of the white dwarf known as AM Herculis suddenly flared.2 It was, therefore, rather surprising when, 25 years later, astronomers registered astonishment to discover that brown dwarfs flare up. "Astronomers expected brown dwarfs, like most objects in the universe, to grow steadily fainter as they cool. However, new observations showed that during a relatively short phase, brown dwarfs appear to get brighter as they cool."3
_as early as 1999, it had been discovered that brown dwarfs also emit strong X-rays. This came to light through the shedding of such rays by the brown dwarf known as LP 944-20 in the constellation Fornax. "After nine hours of seeing nothing special," Maia Weinstock reported, "a bright flare of X-rays taunted the scientists, appearing briefly as an intense flash before fading out over the following two hours." ... Radio flares were also detected being emitted from the same brown dwarf star. These radio emissions "spiked up to 10,000 times stronger than what astronomers thought possible, indicating an intense flare of energy that may be similar to flares on the Sun."2
_p.335 Six of these [red dwarfs], all said to be well-known, have been found to flare up "every few weeks or months." ... And if red dwarfs can flare up in nova-like brilliance, then so can brown dwarf stars. More than that, if these six red dwarfs flare up "every few weeks or months," they should be classed as recurring dwarf novae, which is what they really are.
_p.371-372 red dwarfs often display spots which are "far larger than those seen on the Sun." These "star spots," as Ken Croswell alludes to them, "can cause the star to dim by up to 40 per cent for several months at a time." But also: "At other times, red dwarfs brighten dramatically, spewing large flares that can more than double the star's brightness in a matter of minutes."8 ... this is precisely what would have transpired to proto-Satum during its flare-up. No longer the dim ____red orb it had formerly been, it had now become incandescent, continuing to radiate both light and heat for a long time afterwards.
__[COMMENT: How long could a brown dwarf continue to flare? Saturn apparently was bright only for a few centuries, if that's possible.]
_p.459 [Fred] Jueneman himself attributes various electrical and light activity occurring within his planetary vortex13 but, as he described it, much like the tornado mentioned above, the overall appearance of the planetary vortex would have been a "____bluish color" of "exquisite brilliance ... encased in a pale ____green envelope."14
__[BROWN DWARF PLANETARY SYSTEMS ARE KNOWN]
_p.493-494 a giant planet was discovered in the company of a brown dwarf by members at the Geneva Observatory.4 Eventually, an object in association with a brown dwarf was actually imaged.... ... a verifiable planet was detected around a dwarf star even though this dwarf was classed as red rather than brown. More importantly, the planet in question was described as an Earth-like one, and that it is probably just one such world to be discovered.1 But a planet traveling together with an actual brown dwarf has also been imaged.2 Thus, our own thesis, which calls for Earth having been a satellite of a sub-brown dwarf, cannot be said to be at variance with current astrophysical possibilities.
_p.502 the red dwarf designated Gliese 710 will pass within 1 light-year of the Sun in 1.36 (some say 1.5) million years from now.4

FLARE STAR
_p.148 The first clear observational image of a brown dwarf ... was made on October 27, 1994. ... it was discovered as a companion to the cool red star Gliese 229....
_p.258 With a sun [Saturn] that shone but dimly ____red that neither rose nor set, that neither waxed nor waned, ancient man had no means of telling the passage of time.7 This was an era which ancient man remembered as a timeless age during which the world was bathed in the dim perpetual light of a pre-dawn sky.

METAMORPHIC STAR
_p.104 Orbiting around the red dwarf star that had previously been dubbed Wolf 940 is a brown dwarf member of this class now named Wolf 940B. This dwarf is theorized "to have formed like a star," but to have "ended up looking more like Jupiter."2 Although referred to as a "cool star" by stellar standards, it has a temperature of 300 degrees Celsius-572 degrees Fahrenheit - "which is almost hot enough to melt lead."3
[COMMENT: Not as hot as Venus is.]
__[DARK SUN, SATURN]
_p.217 Much earlier, in Babylon, the planet in question had already been deified as "the Black Satum,"6 or "the Black Star."7 Even in Egypt, despite the fact that he was generally portrayed as of a ____green color, the Saturnian Osiris was often described as having been black.8 As mentioned in an ancient hymn, the "Black One" is a well known reference to Osiris.9 That the black color of this deity was widely known is ably demonstrated by Plutarch, the Greek biographer and moral philosopher, in one of his major works.10
[COMMENT: I think by "black" they meant "dark". Saturn was dark compared to the Sun.]
__[SATURN'S CHANGING COLORS]
_p.233 Tlaloc's color was ambivalent. He was often associated with the color ____red and sometimes even so portrayed.2 But he was also at times painted black.3 This is not to be considered contradictory since proto-Satum's color was seen to change through time. As we noted in a previous volume of this series,4 and illustrated on the covers of our three prequels, the proto-Saturnian sun would originally have shone dimly ____red. As we, however, have also mentioned, for a time it even assumed a ____greenish hue.5 Red and black were not in fact the only colors associated with Tlaloc. Still in keeping with our present trend, the black-bodied Tlaloc was also shown with a ____blue face,6 as is apparent from a frieze at Teotihuacan.7
__[BLUEGREEN SATURN]
_p.234 Sapphires were not the only gems held sacred to Saturn. In China, so was jade, but not the usual ____green variety. On the contrary, the jade used in the imperial worship of Shang-te, the Saturnian Yellow Emperor, was of the rarer ____blue. As we earlier noted, this rite was held at Peking's Altar of Heaven, during which the Emperor was required to kneel while facing north, Saturn's old celestial throne. It was during this ceremony that the emperor had to acknowledge to be inferior to Heaven, even if to Heaven alone. And it was in that respect that one of the most precious of royal items, a cylinder of ____blue jade, was offered to the Supreme Ruler of Heaven, that is Shang-te himself.5
_p.243 There will be those who will claim that body painting antedates proto-Saturn's postulated flare-up by several thousand years. The evidence for this rests on the discovery of ____red ochre in various ancient sites, such as the 92,000-year-old Qafzeh Cave in lsrael.5
[COMMENT: I found that such dating is highly unlikely, since all sedimentary rock strata appear to have been deposited on the continents between 4 and 6 thousand years ago, and archeological sites are above such rock strata.]
_p.250 The shift from ____red to ____purple was not the only change that proto-Saturn underwent at the shedding of the light.
_p.284 Biela's Comet [of 1871], which eventually split in two and later disintegrated altogether, was likewise described as having looked like a great ____red serpent.9
_p.286 And, to be sure, quite a few of these flying serpents were described as having been feathered. Prime among them is the Mayan Kukulkan, simply known as the Plumed Serpent,7 whose plumage was fashioned after the shimmering ____green tail feathers of the quetzal bird from which the serpent's Aztec name, Quetzalcoatl, is derived.
[COMMENT: Both Saturn and Venus seem to have been greenish for a while. Saturn may have been bluish as well.]

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:30 pm

137341

MORE GREEN & RED FROM CARDONA'S BOOKS

PRIMORDIAL STAR
__[EVIDENCE FOR SATURN'S ORIGINAL RED COLOR]
_p.12 The encouragement of plant growth through ____red light has even influenced NASA to design a ____red light-emitting diode "the emission of which packs 10 times the energy of the sun's at the same wavelength." Astronauts have additionally found that emission from this diode, "about the size of a pack of cards," helps cuts to heal faster by stimulating cellular mitochondria.1
_p.18 "Chlorophyll, as its colour indicates, relies chiefly on the energy of the ____red part of the spectrum; but bacterial chlorophyll is characteristically purple and may assume other colorations, so that there is nothing sacrosanct about this. Moreover, hot-spring algae and many young leaves are ____red or orange, which seems to be an adaptation to a hot habitat, and may in the latter case, as A. G. Tikhov has suggested, be a kind of phylogenetic memory ... of a time when the blue end of the spectrum was stronger in sunlight and was utilised for photosynthesis."4
_Secondly, as we will indicate below, there is more than one form of ultraviolet radiation, one of which is not really lethal to Life.
_The point of all this is that if we theoretically shift Earth to the proto-Saturnian system proposed in this work, the high levels of ultraviolet radiation needed for the inception of life is amply met since it is known that brown dwarf stars emit highly in the ultraviolet spectrum of light.6
__[ASTRONOMY'S FALSE COLORS]
_p.27 The Orion nebula looks ____greenish through large telescopes. But photographic film captures it in ____red and deep purple without a hint of green. So which, Berman asks, are its true colors? The answer is simply that astronomers do not really know.2
_"... the colors in many familiar photographs of the cosmos are fake ... researchers paint them any way they choose ... Researchers intensified color and contrast to maximize detail, and the media fell in love with the brilliant images ... No scientific principles justify these embellishments ..."5
__[VENUS COMET WAS GREEN?]
_p.307 Some might point to that little-known Jewish legend according to which God brought ten separate items into being on the first day of Creation. One of these was Tohu which is described as "a ____green band which encompasses the whole world."2 Others might draw attention to an even lesser known Jewish tract which describes Leviathan as a serpent encircling the world.3

NEWBORN STAR
__[RED VENUS RING AROUND RULERS?]
__p.254 THE RITES OF BINDING
_It is therefore in no way speculative to claim that the traditional custom behind the inauguration of Tahitian rulers was evocatively instituted in simulation of the bound proto-Saturnian deity. The Tahitian investiture concerning the coronation of its traditional tribal chiefs consisted in girding the ruler-to-be with the maro ura, a sacred girdle of ____red feathers which is said not only to have "raised him to the highest earthly station," but to have "identified him with their gods."4
__[GREEN VENUS?]
__p.328 THE [GREEN] NAMELESS ONE
The Corn Goddess of the Iroquois has also been likened to Demeter.5 But like the Corn Maiden or Corn Mother of other Amerindian tribes, she was never given a name. She is said to have come to the Iroquois when the hunter Gosadaya prayed to the Great Spirit that his people might be granted a source of food that would be more dependable than the animals killed by hunters and the wild plants gathered by their women. A few nights later, a beautiful maiden clad in garments of ____green and yellow appeared to him, telling him that the Great Spirit had listened to him and had sent her to marry him. She was thereafter known simply as Gosadaya's wife.6
__[RED VENUS]
_p.442-443 Harking back to one of the earliest civilizations, we learn that the name Ninsianna, the same as Inanna, which we have noted as having been applied to one of the Mesopotamian Venus goddesses, actually means "____Red Lady of Heaven."1 Hildegard Lewy has also noted that the Assyrians referred to Ishtar as Istar-Sad which
translates as the Red Ishtar.2
_P.444 In Egypt, Hathor was lauded with the words "O ____red one."3 And in India, among Buddhists, the goddess Tara, under the name Tarodbhava Kurukulla, was known to have been "____red in colour with ____red garments and ornaments" and seated "on a ____red lotus."4
_Across the ocean in Mesoamerica, the Maya, too, associated the color ____red with the planet Venus. Thus, the ____red prefix in Mayan iconography is usually found appended to the Venus glyph, while one of the Mayan names for Venus was chac ek, which means "giant star" but also "____red star."5 However, as Brian Stross indicated, the Tzeltal term tzajal ek also means "____red star" without an additional reference to "large," and "presumably" indicates Venus.6 There is even a prophecy contained in the Book of Chilam Balam that refers to the end of the present era when chak ek, the Red Star, shall return.1 Slightly further south in Paraguay, the Chamacoco, too, believed that Venus had exuded "a ____red sparkle."2
_p.445-446 Ev Cochrane's unacceptance of chac ek as a reference to the planet Venus, and his choice of Mars as a substitute,1 constitutes yet another slight disagreement among the proponents of the proto-Saturnian theory. That said, it is not that Mars was not considered to have been reddish in color as, in fact, it still is. As we have seen, however, for that matter, in accordance with other brown dwarf stars, so had proto-Saturn appeared to have radiated a dim ____red light previous to its flare-up. To be sure, the ____red Morning Star of the Delaware, Seneca, and Cheyenne Amerinds mentioned by Cochrane did probably refer to Mars rather than Venus,1 but that will have to await a future volume of this series that will treat of the erratic antics of the Martian planet. In the meantime, it has to be said that it remains highly unlikely that all traditions ended up mistaking Mars for Venus because of the color that they both originally shared. After all, even the Dogon of Mali, in West Africa, believe that Venus "was blood ____red when she was created," even though, as they claim, its color soon began to fade.1
[COMMENT: Since this was Cardona's last book, he obviously didn't get to fulfill his plan to discuss the erratic antics of Mars.]
__[VENUS' ORIGINAL RED GLOW]
_p.454 Since, at its first appearance, Venus was also said to have been ____red, it would not have been visible against proto-Saturn's ____reddish hue. It would only have become visible after proto-Saturn's change into a brighter orb following its flare-up, which flare-up, as we have seen, was by some accredited to Venus.
_p.463-464 One other thing to stress here is that the ____reddish color that ancient man attributed to the planet Venus at its first appearance could not have been due to the dull rusty hue that some have attributed to its surface. Had that been the case, as already noted, Venus would have appeared as a black silhouette against proto-Saturn's glowing disk both before and following its flare-up. As already noted, the ____reddish hue attributed to Venus at its first appearance had to have been due to an actual glow. It has in fact been stated that, even at present, rocks on the night side of Venus are still hot enough to appear to glow a subdued ____red.1 As reported by the Mohawk Valley Astronomical Society, at night, the Venusian surface takes on an increasingly ____reddish glow with the rocks appearing "to be glowing a dull ____red like hot coal."2 It therefore seems to have been this glow that rendered the planet visibly ____red against proto-Saturn's brightened disk.
__[COMMENT: I assume that Saturn was bright white when it flared.]

INTERESTING VIDEO RE ADVANCED ANCIENT TECH
How granite is softened [to make ancient polygonal masonry]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkUNHm5-4I
_It doesn't really explain much, but it suggests that, not only was it known how to soften rock to shape and form-fit large boulders, it was also known by the same math formula how to make them extremely light-weight so they could be transported easily. Ancient Architects or something recently indicated that low tech methods could have made the megalithic structures possible, so that may be more realistic.

Lloyd
Posts: 5416
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:24 am

MORE ON ANCIENT MEGALITHIC TECH

I'm a little late with this video from the same channel (too late to add to the previous post), but it's along similar lines, but not as speculative. It seems to show good clues to figuring out the megalithic masonry technique.

Clues at Ollantaytambo. The Lost Art of Stone Softening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fi-GK9n2jQ

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