Are the planets growing?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
allynh
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by allynh » Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:52 am

The main part is mention of a massive lighting storm. Their explanation is the ash rubbing together, when in reality it's the lightning that produced the eruption.

The Tonga eruption explained, from tsunami warnings to sonic booms
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... nd-tsunami
The volcanic plume generated record amounts of lightning before producing a blast heard thousands of miles away. Here’s what geologists say drove the event—and what may happen next.

Just a few weeks ago, a submarine volcano identifiable by two small uninhabitable islands in the Kingdom of Tonga began to erupt. Its outburst initially seemed innocuous, with ashen plumes and moderate explosions that few people living outside the archipelago noticed.

But in the past 24 hours, that volcano, named Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai, forced the world to sit up and pay attention.

After a moment of calm earlier this month, its eruptive activity turned increasingly violent. The middle section of the island vanished on satellite imagery. Towering columns of ash began to produce record-breaking amounts of lightning.

About this map

“The thing just went gangbusters,” says Chris Vagasky, meteorologist and lightning applications manager at the Finland-based weather measurements company Vaisala. “We were starting to get 5,000 or 6,000 events per minute. That’s a hundred events per second. It’s unbelievable.”

Then, early in the morning on January 15, the volcano produced a colossal explosion. The atmosphere was blasted out of the way as a shockwave emanated from the island, radiating outward at close to the speed of sound. The sonic boom was heard in parts of New Zealand more than 1,300 miles away, with the shockwave eventually traveling halfway around the world—as far as the United Kingdom, which is located a staggering 10,000 miles distant.

To everyone’s horror, a tsunami quickly followed. It hit Tongatapu, the kingdom’s main island and home to the capital Nuku'alofa, just a few dozen miles to the south of the volcano. Communications were knocked out as the streets began to flood and people fled for their lives. Tsunami waves, albeit smaller ones, rushed across the vast ocean to parts of the Pacific Northwest, causing surges in Alaska, Oregon, Washington State, and British Columbia. Stations in California, Mexico, and parts of South America also registered minor tsunami waves.

Recent research on the geologic history of the volcano suggests that this powerful paroxysm is, on human timescales, a relatively rare event: Such an explosion is thought to occur roughly once every thousand years. The hope is that the worst of the eruption is over. But even if that turns out to be the case, the damage has already been done.

For Tonga, “this is a potentially devastating event, and it’s horrifying to watch,” says Janine Krippner, a volcanologist at the Smithsonian Institution’s Global Volcanism Program. “I feel sick thinking about it.”

Scientists and a rattled public are eager to know what caused such a powerful eruption, and what may happen next. But information has been slow to emerge partly because the volcano is somewhat remote and difficult to observe up close.

“There are far more questions than answers at this point,” Krippner says. But here’s what scientists do know about the tectonic and geologic drivers involved, and what they might mean for the volcano’s future.

A volcanic powerhouse in the Pacific

Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai is located in region of the South Pacific that’s jam-packed with volcanoes—some above the waves, some far below—that have a penchant for violent eruptions. Past events have unleashed city-size rafts of pumice or seen volcanoes blowing themselves apart only to build new islands immediately afterward.


Volcanoes 101

About 1,500 active volcanoes can be found around the world. Learn about the major types of volcanoes, the geological process behind eruptions, and where the most destructive volcanic eruption ever witnessed occurred.

This profusion of volcanoes exists because of the Pacific plate’s continuous dive beneath the Australian tectonic plate. As the slab descends into the superhot rocks of the mantle, the water inside gets baked out and rises into the mantle above. Adding water to these rocks causes them to more readily melt. This creates a lot of magma that tends to be sticky and filled with gas—a potent recipe for explosive eruptions.

Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai is no exception to this rule. The bits of land sit above a volcano more than 12 miles wide featuring a cauldron-like pit about three miles across, hidden from view by the sea. It’s been seen erupting with vim and vigor as far back as 1912, sometimes popping above the waves before being eroded away. The eruption of 2014-15 created a stable island that was soon home to colorful plants and barn owls.

When Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai started erupting again on December 19, 2021, it produced a series of blasts and an ash column 10 miles high, but it was doing “nothing out of the ordinary” for a submarine volcano, says Sam Mitchell, a volcanologist at the University of Bristol in the U.K. For the next few weeks, enough fresh lava erupted to expand the island by nearly 50 percent. And as the new year dawned, the volcano appeared to be calming down.

Then, in the last couple of days, things took a turn for the dramatic.

The volcano’s menacing maelstrom

As the volcano’s explosivity began to intensify, the amount of lightning emerging from its ashy plume began to eclipse not only that seen during this eruption, but during any eruption ever recorded.

Volcanoes can produce lightning because ash particles in their plumes bump into each other or into bits of ice in the atmosphere, which generates an electrical charge. Positive charges get segregated from negative ones, sparking a flash of lightning. (Learn more about how volcanoes can trigger lightning.)

From the outset, the Tonga eruption’s lightning was detected by Vaisala’s GLD360 network, which uses a global distribution of radio receivers that can “hear” the lightning as intense bursts of radio waves. During the first two weeks, the system recorded sometimes a few hundred or a few thousand flashes per day—nothing unusual. “It was clearing its throat, I guess,” says Vagasky.

There was nowhere else that was that electric on the planet last night.

Chris VagaskyVaisala meteorologist

But by late Friday into early Saturday, the volcano was producing tens of thousands of discharges. At one point, this Tongan volcano managed 200,000 discharges in a single hour. By comparison, the 2018 eruption of Indonesia’s Anak Krakatau had 340,000 discharges over a week or so.

“I couldn’t believe the numbers I was seeing,” says Vagasky. “You don’t usually see that with a volcano. This is something else. There was nowhere else that was that electric on the planet last night.”

It may have looked spectacular from afar, but up close it would have seemed apocalyptic, a constant blaze of light soundtracked by endless thunder and volcanic bellows. Most of the lightning wasn’t isolated to the plume but also hit the ground and the ocean. “This was extremely dangerous for anybody that’s sitting on any of the other Tongan islands, because you’ve got all this lightning coming down around you,” says Vagasky.

So why has this eruption produced what is likely to be a record-breaking number of discharges?

The presence of water always ups the odds of lightning, says Kathleen McKee, a volcano acoustic researcher at the Los Alamos National Lab in New Mexico. When magma mingles with a shallow body of water, the trapped water is aggressively heated and vaporized, blasting that magma into millions of tiny pieces. The more plentiful and the finer the particles you have, the more lightning you generate.

The heat of the eruption also readily transports water vapor into the colder, higher reaches of the atmosphere, where it becomes ice, says Corrado Cimarelli, an experimental volcanologist at the Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich. That provides plenty of additional particles for the ash to collide with and generate electricity.

But the reasons this eruption produced quite so much lightning are impossible to determine at present. “Unfortunately, the volcano is quite remote and there [are] few constraints on the atmospheric profiles in the vicinity of the plume,” Cimarelli says.

The Hephaestion hammer falls

The astounding amount of lightning wasn’t the only prelude to the volcano’s cataclysmic blast. By Saturday morning, satellite imagery had revealed the island was no longer building itself: The middle of the volcanic isle had vanished, likely thanks to the uptick in explosivity.

When it eventually unleashed a giant explosion, the shockwave ricocheted across the globe at breakneck speeds. It was immediately followed by a tsunami that slammed into several islands in the Tongan archipelago before racing across the Pacific.

Jackie Caplan-Auerbach, a seismologist and volcanologist at Western Washington University in Bellingham, says the blast involved a “mind-boggling amount of energy.” But there isn’t enough data right now to ascertain the precise cause of the tsunami.

These events require displacing a lot of water, which can happen through underwater explosions, through a collapse event—when lots of rock suddenly falls off the volcano into the sea—or a combination of these and other factors.

With the ash column obscuring the volcano, and much of the volcano submerged underwater, scientists will need time to gather more indirect data before drawing any conclusions. Clues could come from the types of acoustic waves the blast generated or perhaps the redistribution of mass around the volcano.

“The jury is still out,” Caplan-Auerbach says, but the fact that such an intense explosion and potent tsunami came out of this single, relatively small volcanic isle “speaks to the incredible power of this eruption.” And although not the cause of the main tsunami, the shockwave itself triggered another big wave: The rapidly moving air impacting the ocean was powerful enough to force water to move out of the way, a phenomenon called a meteotsunami.

Shane Cronin, a volcanologist at the University of Auckland in New Zealand, adds in a recent blog post that clues about why this event was so intense can be found in the volcano’s chemistry, which changes as the magmatic fuel within evolves over time.

This volcano, like many others, must refill its magma reservoir after a major eruption. The last of those in the region happened back in the year 1100; ever since, molten rock has been accumulating at depth. As it becomes mostly full, small amounts of magma leak out of the volcano, which is likely behind the eruptions recorded since 2009.

However, Cronin says, “once recharged, the large amount of magma crystallizing starts to drive gas pressures up, too quickly for it to be released by small eruptions.” Something’s got to give, and when that vast supply of magma finds an opening, it violently depressurizes and much of the molten reservoir is evacuated in one big blast.

A foggy future in Tonga

The Tongan archipelago may owe its very existence to the infernal forces that constructed its islands in the first place, but it’s clear the cost of living on them can be steep. Only 100,000 people live in the kingdom, with about a quarter residing in the capital, and they are now besieged by ashfall and tsunami waves.

“The biggest unknown right now that really matters is we don’t know how the people in Tonga are,” Krippner says. This eruption, Mitchell adds, “could potentially be incredibly devastating to the country.”

So now comes the question everyone wants answered: “Is this eruption over?” Krippner says. “We don’t know.”

Such a terrifying outburst may represent the effective decapitation the volcano’s shallow magma reservoir and the speedy exsanguination of its molten contents, Mitchell says. This eruption will be extensively studied by volcanologists, which will only improve their understanding of future events and bolster efforts to mitigate their effects.

But it’s too soon to know for sure how things will unfold in the wake of this eruption. So for now, all eyes remain firmly fixed on Hunga Tonga-Hunga Ha'apai.
Here's the video.

Tsunami hits Tonga after massive volcano eruption seen from space.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUrPKUpZVYc

Deeply Scary.

allynh
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by allynh » Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:03 pm

I've mentioned Mark Witton before and the beautiful art he makes for pterosaurs. He wrote a long blog post about Quetzalcoatlus 2021 where he goes into detail over a paper. I won't do my usual copy and paste because it is so long and goes into detail.

The problems that they are arguing over can be solved using a Growing Earth model, with a smaller Earth and lower gravity.

They are putting huge effort to make their models work on a static sized Earth at 1 gravity.

Quetzalcoatlus 2021: a strange pterosaur, or just strangely interpreted?
https://markwitton-com.blogspot.com/202 ... osaur.html

Aardwolf
Posts: 1456
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Aardwolf » Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:46 pm

"Under quad-launch theory, giant pterosaurs can easily be 200 or 300 kg and still become airborne"

Yes, lets put wings on a Silverback Gorilla and I'm certain it could fly...

They state this crap knowing full well the largest flying animal is only 20kg and all larger birds are now flightless. There is no way these things flew under current gravity.

allynh
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by allynh » Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:52 am

Aardwolf wrote: Yes, lets put wings on a Silverback Gorilla and I'm certain it could fly...
Yikes! I've had Ravens deliberately bomb me with sh*t, while they flew by laughing at me. Imagine a gorilla letting loose.

We discovered how the largest dinosaurs walked – and it was more like hippos than elephants
https://theconversation.com/we-discover ... nts-178194
Peter Falkingham Published: March 9, 2022 11.23am EST
While our knowledge of dinosaurs and other extinct animals has dramatically increased during the last couple of decades, their gaits – the order and timing of how animals move their legs – have remained a blind spot.

We are particularly interested in the giant long-necked sauropod dinosaurs, which include the largest animals that walked the earth, including such famous species as Diplodocus, Brontosaurus and Brachiosaurus. How did these giants move? What role did efficiency and stability play during their locomotion?

Those questions have not been easy to answer. The problem is that skeletons are the remains of deceased animals and don’t preserve motion. So reconstructing gaits based on fossilised bones can only indirectly provide clues, and are far from conclusive.

Investigating gait from tracks

As it happens, there is another type of fossil that records the activity of an animal when it was alive, and they are known as fossil trackways. But until now, extracting gait information about extinct dinosaurs from these footprints has proved difficult.

A 2016 study demonstrated that two animals of different sizes and using different gaits could produce identical track patterns. This means that to identify gait from the tracks we would need to know the trunk length of the animal (distance from hip to shoulder). Unfortunately it could not be accurately estimated from tracks so we were left with too many unknowns.

Read more: A social species? Newly discovered fossils show early dinosaurs lived in herds

But one important aspect had not yet been taken into account – the variation along a set of tracks caused by small changes in speed. In our new study, we used this variation to present a new method to use tracks to work out which gait had been used.

Obviously the trunk length of an animal cannot change as it walks – so, we can therefore measure the trunk length from the tracks at many different points along it, while each time assuming a different gait. The gait which produces the most consistent trunk length along the tracks can be assumed to be the correct one.

Large footprints on a track
https://images.theconversation.com/file ... 8bh42z.JPG
Sauropod tracks from Utah. Jens Lallensack, Author provided

It all made perfect mathematical sense. All we needed to do was make sure our new method worked when applied to the tracks of modern animals, including three dogs, two horses and an elephant. In each case, the method produced gratifyingly accurate estimates of the animals’ gaits.

How dinosaurs moved

So, for the first time we had developed a way to study gaits of the past. We applied the method to three fossilised tracks of giant sauropods from the Early Cretaceous period of Arkansas, in the US – the largest of which had footprint lengths of 85cm.

The results were really surprising. Previous studies suggested that sauropods might have walked in a pace gait (similar to a camel) or a singlefoot walk (similar to a slow moving horse). But we expected that sauropod gaits would resemble those of elephants, as they are the largest land animals alive today.

Elephants employ lateral couplets gaits – they tend to move the fore and hind limb of the same body-side together, like in the animation below. They therefore fall in between the pace gait (the extreme of a lateral couplets gait where hind and fore limb of one body side move exactly in sync) and the singlefoot gait (where the time lag between all limb movements is exactly equal).

Animation showing how animal legs move using a lateral couplet gait, where limbs of the same side move together

https://images.theconversation.com/file ... uti16o.gif
The lateral couplets gait, seen in animals such as elephants. Jens Lallensack, Author provided

Our new method, however, indicates that all three sauropods we studied via tracks had walked in a diagonal couplets gait, where they move the limbs of the opposite body-side together. The extreme in this gait is called a trot (the diagonal pair moves exactly in sync). So, to our surprise sauropods did the opposite of what we see in elephants.

Reconstructed Sauropod gait
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ypz_QvxMx4

How can this difference be explained? Well, Cretaceous sauropods do differ from elephants in one important aspect – they are much wider. The tracks we studied are especially broad (or wide-gauged), with left and right tracks spaced well apart from each other.

Elephants, in contrast, set one foot almost in front of the other, forming a narrow path. This has consequences for the gait. An elephant only needs to shift its body mass slightly to one side in order to swing both legs of the other side forward together. A wide-gauged sauropod, however, would have needed to drastically sway its body towards one side to achieve the same.

Read more: Dinosaur embryo discovery: rare fossil suggests dinosaurs had similar pre-hatching posture to modern birds

So, the diagonal couplets gait assured that the sauropods always had at least one foot on the ground on either side of the body, avoiding such swaying from left to right. Stability therefore seems to have played a major role in how the largest creatures ever to have roamed this planet walked.

Interestingly, almost all large modern mammals show very narrow tracks, in combination with lateral couplets gaits. But the wide-tracked hippopotamus, in contrast, uses a diagonal couplets gait (moving limbs of the opposite body side together) just as we estimated for wide-tracked sauropods. So while it’s easy to assume that because elephants are the largest animals on land today, large land animals of the past must have moved like them, it appears that this was not the case.
Here is the paper.

A new method to calculate limb phase from trackways reveals gaits of sauropod dinosaurs
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fu ... 22)00234-2

allynh
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by allynh » Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:19 pm

This is a followup to the post upthread, from June 2020. Read through it for background. I'll wait.

https://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum3/phpBB3 ... t=15#p2404

See, isn't that remarkable. They are starting to have the technology to image the interior of the Earth by using earthquakes, collected over time, like they use ultrasound in tomography.

When I saw this video it was scary.

More Updates About Strange Blob Structures Inside Planet Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0utwP9J6mA

He is following the narrative that was developed years ago, so I still see the flaw of using the creation of the Moon by collision to explain the structures. The "collision" with Theia, would have caused so much damage that there would not be such an ordered structure left. The shattered Earth would just be a molten blob with the Moon forming from the splashes of impact.

- It would not have lead to "plate tectonics" since the Earth would have been molten again with no crust to form plates.

The wiki page gives more examples of "possible origins", and has the gif that he uses in the video.

Large low-shear-velocity provinces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_low ... _provinces

The gif showing the structures
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... /LLSVP.gif
Animation of LLSVPs based on the clustering analysis of Cottaar & Lekic (2016). The resolution of the clustering analysis results in the somewhat blocky depiction of the LLSVPs.
That 3D view of the blobs is disturbing. They should have used two different colors to make it clearer, but watch it spin and you can see the structure stand out.

- That red sphere at the center may represent the current hollow core that we have talked about in the past.(1)

I still think that the structures show what is left of the original interior shell of the hollow core. That if they could combine their 3d view with the classic one from Neil Adams we would see the structures come together in a small Earth, showing how big the hollow core was.

Expanding Earth Theory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqF-vvi5uUA

This is the article he referenced in the video.

Study of 2 blobs in Earth's mantle shows unexpected differences in height, density
https://news.asu.edu/20220310-study-two ... nd-density

BTW, If you expand the "descriptions" on his video, you can see the list of where he got the various videos that he used to make his video.

(1)The ebook is available from Amazon at low cost.

Hollow Planets: A Feasibility Study of Possible Hollow Worlds by Jan Lamprecht (Mar 26, 2014)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071ZP68YS/

allynh
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by allynh » Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:03 pm

This is a fun video. The maps are probably real, but who knows if the information was based on actual knowledge or simply "made up" the way some map makers would do on occasion.

LOST 500 YEAR MAP(S)! Show RIVERS in MIDDLE of SAHARA DESERT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8eG3C5WDKY

It would be nice if some of the information could be confirmed as he mentions in the video. NASA has detected ancient rivers before. You know when they are saying a time scale of 10k to 1m years that they are trying not to upset the sponsors.

Space Radar Unearths Secrets of the Ancient Nile
Dec. 6, 1996
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/space-rad ... cient-nile
One of the many great mysteries of the Nile River may be solved with the discovery of an ancient river channel buried under layers of sand in the Sahara Desert in Africa.

The buried river channel was revealed in images taken by the Spaceborne Imaging Radar C/X-Band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SIR- C/X-SAR) that flew twice on the Space Shuttle Endeavour in 1994. The radar images were processed at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of Texas at Dallas (UTD).

"One of the things this discovery helps us examine is the origin of what's called the Great Bend of the Nile," said Dr. Bob Stern, a SIR-C science team member at UTD. "The Nile generally flows due north, but in the Sudan, it makes a huge, looping bend that is really remarkable because the river is flowing through the Sahara Desert, the largest, driest desert on the face of the Earth. There must be a very good reason for the river to make this great bend, otherwise we would expect it to flow straight to the Mediterranean Sea." Instead, it bends southwestward and wanders through the Sahara for another 320 kilometers (200 miles) before resuming its northward course.

"The discovery of the river channel shows us that probably sometime between 10,000 and 1 million years ago, the Nile was forced to abandon its bed and take up a new course to the south. This buried channel proves that this region has been tectonically active and shows us how this activity has forced the river to change its course," Stern said. "Understanding what controls the course of the Nile is a critical part of understanding Nile history and predicting Nile behavior, which is important because the river is essential to millions of people in Egypt, Sudan and Ethiopia."

A scientific paper on the discovery written by Stern and co- authored with UTD geologist Dr. Mohamed Gamal Abdelsalam appears in the Dec. 6 issue of Science magazine. The discovery grew out of research that the scientists have been doing on plate tectonics and the formation of a "supercontinent" more than 600 million years ago.

"Our original experiment involved studying ancient structures in Precambrian rocks that formed where two supercontinents collided hundreds of millions of years ago. In the course of our study, we became interested in how these structures influenced the course of the Nile," explained Stern.

It was the tantalizing radar images of the area hidden beneath the sands of the Sahara that turned the scientists' work in a new direction.

"This discovery wouldn't have happened without SIR-C/X-SAR imagery. Our work in northeast Africa would have been limited to what we could see on the ground or could be seen in satellite photographs. The radar is much more efficient in getting information from these sand-covered areas because the radar waves are able to penetrate the sand. SIR-C/X-SAR imagery has revealed a huge piece of the Earth's surface -- an area that's never been seriously explored before," Stern noted.

"This is one of the most exciting discoveries from the SIR- C/X-SAR mission to date. I expect we'll continue to be surprised by fascinating results like these as the science team continues to analyze the radar data," said Dr. Diane Evans, the SIR-C project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "More and more we are finding the radar data have applications to answer questions about the Earth that were not originally anticipated."

SIR-C/X-SAR is a joint mission of the United States, German and Italian space agencies. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory built and manages the SIR-C portion of the mission for NASA's Office of Mission to Planet Earth, a program to study the Earth's land, oceans, atmosphere and life as a total, integrated system.

#####

NOTE TO EDITORS: A NASA Television Video File will feature an interview with Dr. Bob Stern and the space radar images on Friday, December 6 at 9 a.m., noon, 3 p.m., 6 p.m. and 9 p.m. Pacific Time. NASA Television is carried on Spacenet 2, transponder 5 (channel 9) at 69 degrees west longitude. The frequency is 3880 MHz. Polarization is horizontal and audio is monaural at 6.8 MHz.

The images are also available on the World Wide Web at http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/radar/sircxsar


818-354-5011

Open Mind
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Open Mind » Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:44 pm

This post is slowing unfortunately. Just reiterating my likely previous interest in more information on what I believe is the linchpin in this concept, which is the debate on Subduction. It seems for any actual interest to be generated in the expanding earth, I'd expect the concept of subduction and challenges to it including any and all new scientific observations and studies needs an update.

Half of the story of plate tectonics, crustal expansion on the oceanic ridges, is already deeply confirmed in the mainstream eye, and alot of information is available catering to all levels of expertise for that concept. But from there it becomes very muddy and more challenging to comprehend as the challenges to subduction typically only cater to the phd level of comprehension.

I'd be very interested in reading a more civilian level of explanation about how, like cosmology, subduction is in crisis, and assume with considerable developments in many scientific fields over the last couple decades, there must be more discoveries/observations/data with much finer resolution, that can push that discussion forward.

I've searched and can find very little, especially in the presentation style that can appeal to a more broad audience of non phd's. If you can agree that the issue obstructing acceptance of this theory rests on comprehension of the dismantling of the theory of subduction, then I"d be interested to hear about any new developments focused on that specific area.

Aardwolf
Posts: 1456
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Aardwolf » Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:41 pm

Open Mind wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 2:44 pm This post is slowing unfortunately. Just reiterating my likely previous interest in more information on what I believe is the linchpin in this concept, which is the debate on Subduction. It seems for any actual interest to be generated in the expanding earth, I'd expect the concept of subduction and challenges to it including any and all new scientific observations and studies needs an update.

Half of the story of plate tectonics, crustal expansion on the oceanic ridges, is already deeply confirmed in the mainstream eye, and alot of information is available catering to all levels of expertise for that concept. But from there it becomes very muddy and more challenging to comprehend as the challenges to subduction typically only cater to the phd level of comprehension.

I'd be very interested in reading a more civilian level of explanation about how, like cosmology, subduction is in crisis, and assume with considerable developments in many scientific fields over the last couple decades, there must be more discoveries/observations/data with much finer resolution, that can push that discussion forward.

I've searched and can find very little, especially in the presentation style that can appeal to a more broad audience of non phd's. If you can agree that the issue obstructing acceptance of this theory rests on comprehension of the dismantling of the theory of subduction, then I"d be interested to hear about any new developments focused on that specific area.
When we are presented with evidence to support the theory of subduction we'll have a basis to dismantle. Until then it's just a hypothetical myth.

Arguably it should be referred to as "dark subduction" as it merely exists as an anomaly within a mathematical model constrained by a fixed size Earth. "We can observe and measure expansion so where does all the land go"...says their so called "theory".

Open Mind
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Open Mind » Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:00 pm

Aardwolf wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:41 pm
When we are presented with evidence to support the theory of subduction we'll have a basis to dismantle. Until then it's just a hypothetical myth.

Arguably it should be referred to as "dark subduction" as it merely exists as an anomaly within a mathematical model constrained by a fixed size Earth. "We can observe and measure expansion so where does all the land go"...says their so called "theory".
[/quote]

"dark subduction", lol. I like it.

The issue, as I see it, is that it needs a wider audience to bring it up into the discussions. That's why I keep pushing for a strategy of 'dumbed down' video's or presentations, that will appeal to a less educated audience. The spear tip of that discussion of course has to occur between experts, but without triggering the fear in proponents of mainstream science, that their precious 'accepted science' classification is being challenged and innocent civilians are being 'lied to', as they'll describe it, the option to dismiss it will be too easy to generate any discussion at all.

Sadly, what I'm describing here is exactly the model used by 'flat earth', and its GUARANTEED to be positioned as the next version of that. But if there are any actual debates generated by that dynamic, the content of that discussion will be of course far more difficult to dismiss. So I'm presenting a strategy to take that model's approach, with the guarantee that those who will stand out as champions of Expanding earth will be afforded a much wider audience to be humiliated in front of initially, but I suggest its an absolutely critical step necessary to get the ball rolling. I say this because most of the slow progress on 'potential' theories is held up by avoidance of what I expect is an unavoidable step in this process for any theory that challenges mainstream.

So Flat Earth actually does have a value, if not in any scientific way, at least in displaying a proven path necessary to accomplish getting the idea into the minds of the general public. So how can we get this started?

Bla bla bla... you go first...

Open Mind
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Open Mind » Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:26 pm

do it annonymously under the acronym: G.L.I.T.C.H - Guy Leerily Immune To Cancellation Hypocrisy

allynh
Posts: 1114
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 am

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by allynh » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:16 pm

Open Mind,

I'm not sure what you are asking. Subduction has nothing to do with Growing Earth Theory, since it doesn't happen. Subduction is used to explain Plate Tectonics, which James Maxlow has shown to be false.

- Growing Earth Theory is real, with tons of evidence.

This is a list of the lectures by James Maxlow. He calls it Expansion Tectonics.

Expansion Tectonics: Dr. Maxlow on Recent to Permian Small Earth Modeling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO609uOKM2I

Expansion Tectonics #2: Dr. Maxlow on Permian to Archaean Small Earth Modelling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFaD5XKMVOE

Expansion Tectonics #3: Fact or Mere Coincidence? - Dr. James Maxlow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M7n5-Wxx-Q

Expansion Tectonics: Fact of Mere Coincidence 2 with Dr. James Maxlow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEWPtca_RSI

Expansion Tectonics: BLIND FAITH with Dr. James Maxlow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92j7wur0l-I

This is his book.

Beyond Plate Tectonics
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JDG2K4R/

BTW, We have a different thread for "Flat Earth" where we look at the concept in Story terms rather than in fact. It's more fun that way. In reality "Flat Earth" is used to disrupt society by having people doubt science. It's another well funded PsyOps that is easily disproven, but is great for Story. I have a whole series that I am having fun with built around the whole concept of "Flat Earth".

Growing Earth Theory(GET) is standard in my stuff as an underlaying force. You have things like the Fukushima nuclear disaster where the Earth grew by 50 meters expanding the sea between China, Korea, and Japan.

Way up in Forum v2.0 we had a clear example of the Earth Growing after Fukushima:

https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/php ... 840#p60274

This is the article mentioned. Notice that they don't have the pictures anymore.

Fukushima Earthquake Moved Seafloor Half a Football Field
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... s-seafloor

Further up thread was discussion of Fukushima:

https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/php ... 705#p49266

Read through the rest of that page to see discussion.

Then way back on page 43 we have this fun gem:

https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/php ... 630#p45456

You had me looking back along the thread. There is so much good stuff there.

Thanks...

Open Mind
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Open Mind » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:08 pm

allynh wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:16 pm Open Mind,

I'm not sure what you are asking. Subduction has nothing to do with Growing Earth Theory, since it doesn't happen. Subduction is used to explain Plate Tectonics, which James Maxlow has shown to be false.
Allyn, You must have skimmed my post. I agree with everything you posted. You could have saved yourself some time. My guess is you caught 'flat earth' and made a presumption. I won't restate my thoughts again, but would be happy to clarify in a pm if you want, if it needs some clarification. Main point was I'm hoping to see as much info on "How Subduction is totally wrong" because I see that as the least clarified defense of Expanding earth and I want more people to latch onto this idea. Flat earth was just an example of a promotional approach. No tin foil hats here, I promise

Aardwolf
Posts: 1456
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Aardwolf » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:49 pm

Open Mind wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:08 pm
allynh wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:16 pm Open Mind,

I'm not sure what you are asking. Subduction has nothing to do with Growing Earth Theory, since it doesn't happen. Subduction is used to explain Plate Tectonics, which James Maxlow has shown to be false.
Allyn, You must have skimmed my post. I agree with everything you posted. You could have saved yourself some time. My guess is you caught 'flat earth' and made a presumption. I won't restate my thoughts again, but would be happy to clarify in a pm if you want, if it needs some clarification. Main point was I'm hoping to see as much info on "How Subduction is totally wrong" because I see that as the least clarified defense of Expanding earth and I want more people to latch onto this idea. Flat earth was just an example of a promotional approach. No tin foil hats here, I promise
GET doesn't need to disprove "How Subduction is totally wrong" for the same reason Plate Tectonic Theory doesn't disprove that herds of invisible unicorns pull the continents around with invisible ropes.

Open Mind
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Open Mind » Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:48 am

[/quote]GET doesn't need to disprove "How Subduction is totally wrong" for the same reason Plate Tectonic Theory doesn't disprove that herds of invisible unicorns pull the continents around with invisible ropes.
[/quote]


Did you mistakenly say 'disprove'? GET does need to prove that subduction is wrong. Or at least substatiate significant doubt about it to generate interest from a broader audience. Why is everyone reading what I said wrong?

Aardwolf
Posts: 1456
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:56 pm

Re: Are the planets growing?

Unread post by Aardwolf » Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:28 pm

Open Mind wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:48 amGET does need to prove that subduction is wrong.
Where's the proof that subduction is right?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest