Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:51 am

83133

I want to clarify some things I brought up yesterday at viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=555#p5587 .

CAUSE OF SEAFLOOR MAGNETIC STRIPES
1. As each strip of seafloor formed at the mid-ocean ridge, the first strip was magnetized opposite to Earth's polarity and subsequent strips magnetized opposite to each previous strip (as a Robert Distinti video showed), but with some influence from the geomagnetic field.
2. The geomagnetic field is caused by current-free electric double layers within the Earth which have differential rotation, as Charles Chandler explained at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=10862 . The galactic magnetic field and/or magnetic fields of impactors influence the geomagnetic field and the magnetic fields of iron-containing rock formations.

NO POLE SHIFTS
Geomagnetic reversals are not caused by shifting of the poles or axis of the Earth, but by the mechanisms above.

YD IMPACTOR, NOT SATURN NOVA, CAUSED ARCTIC FLASH FREEZING
But the impactor/s may have come from a Saturn nova.

The article I mentioned here yesterday, Of Flash Frozen Mammoths and Cosmic Catastrophes, at https://en.calameo.com/read/003459461debeffc413c2 seems to have the best solid evidence for some of what happened during the Younger Dryas impact/s. The author says there are five known YD impact sites. The locations and crater diameters are: Lake Saimaa, Finland 290 km; Baffin Island, CAN 120 km; Hudson Bay, CAN 480 km; Amundsen Bay, CAN 241 km; Lake Michigan, US 105 km. This is a map showing the sites and the direction the impactors were coming from: https://i.ibb.co/Prpvmn9/YD-Impacts2.png It shows Eurasia at the bottom and North America on top but upside-down. The impactors were going north over Eurasia. The first one hit Finland. The rest went over the north pole and struck Baffin Island, Amundsen Bay, Hudson Bay and Lake Michigan. All four or maybe all five sites were likely under the ice sheet, so they ejected ice boulders that caused secondary impacts, i.e. the Carolina Bays and the Nebraska basins as well as other craters, all shown on this map: https://i.ibb.co/R39ZKsP/YD-2nd-Impacts.png . The ice impacts were so thick over a wide area of the U.S. that few animals or humans survived.

This has an illustration of how the impactors caused flash freezing of the Arctic: https://i.ibb.co/4FkCJP5/YD-Impacts.png The original object is thought to have been 80 km in diameter. That means when the bottom of it touched Earth's surface, the top of it was near the top of the denser part of the atmosphere. The impactors apparently came down at a 15 degree angle, a very shallow angle. When they touched down they likely produced thermonuclear explosions, due to extreme heat and pressure of high-speed impact, as Charles Chandler explained at http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=10962 . Much atmosphere was displaced by such a large group of objects, pushing the air above the main mass of the atmosphere, with additional air lost by the impact explosions, much of it reaching escape velocity. Vacuums formed behind each impactor and produced above hurricane force winds by the air moving into the vacuums. This air was from the upper atmosphere, which was extremely cold, and the high winds added to the wind chill effect, causing temperatures of minus 150 degrees or less for some minutes or hours. The cold high winds stirred up dust, which suffocated many animals in the Arctic, which had been warm just prior to the impacts. The dust also mixed with precipitation and fell as rock ice. The dust and rock ice formed hills containing buried plants and animals. The Arctic remained cold ever since then and permafrost preserves many of these hills. Here's a map that shows where mammoths lived, i.e. in northern Eurasia and Alaska: https://images.firstpost.com/wp-content ... r1_lrg.jpg The article it's with is titled, WOOLLY MAMMOTHS DIED OFF 4,000 YEARS AGO FROM ISOLATION AND EXTREME WEATHER at https://www.firstpost.com/tech/science/ ... 67881.html It's not obvious that the impacts would have had a direct effect on Siberia, but maybe the cold strong winds and rock ice precipitation were enough to kill them off too. The author points out that they weren't biologically equipped to handle extreme cold weather.

I think the Washington Scablands Flood was caused by the YD impacts.

CONFLAGRATION
The article, Of Flash Frozen Mammoths and Cosmic Catastrophes, doesn't say much about conflagrations. It just mentions that soot was found at several Clovis and Younger Dryas sites. But the conflagrations may be good evidence of a Saturn nova.

RELATIVE TIMING
It looks like the Younger Dryas impacts must have come after the Pangaea supercontinent broke up, since Finland's present location is in line with the other impact sites, whereas its prior location on Pangaea doesn't appear to line up as well. The supercontinent broke up likely a few hundred years after the Great Flood and the Younger Dryas impacts could have occurred some years or centuries later.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:52 am

84806

NEW YOUNGER DRYAS COMET MODEL ONLINE

I found another Younger Dryas model online today. Here are two of the articles I've read about it so far.
1. THE FLOODING OF THE MEDITERRANEAN BASIN AT THE YOUNGER-DRYAS BOUNDARY
http://maajournal.com/Issues/2019/Vol19 ... 019(1).pdf
2. Eyewitness Account of the Impact that Delivered the Worldwide Flood
https://theworldwideflood.com/2018/08/1 ... mment-4397
_Here are some highlights of the model. I'll see if I can incorporate this new info with previous info.
_Pieces of a snowball comet 2500 km in diameter produced Younger Dryas impacts, but the main body of the comet impacted between south Africa and Antarctica.
_The impact site is visible on the seafloor.
_Sea level was 3 km lower than now before the impacts, as shown by submerged riverbeds.
_The comet ice melted and produced a worldwide flood, raising sea levels rapidly.
_The ice lowered Earth air temperatures for some time afterward.
_The civilization of Atlantis described by Plato is outlined on the seafloor.
_The event is said to have occurred almost 13,000 years ago, but best evidence indicates it was about 4,300 years ago.
_It is claimed that there was no ice sheet before the impacts, but it's more plausible that there was and ejected ice boulders from the ice sheet formed the Carolina bays etc.
_There must have been higher sea levels when the Great Flood formed the sedimentary rock strata, and cooling after the Flood caused the ice sheet to form in North America and Europe, which lowered sea levels.
_Myths are cited of a comet/dragon that produced a global Flood, but the Saturn Theory says that comet was Venus (or Mars?).

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:37 am

85043

REVIEWING MY LATEST READS

HOW ANIMALS FLASH FROZE FROM YD IMPACTS
_I posted first about Of Flash Frozen Mammoths and Cosmic Catastrophes at https://en.calameo.com/read/003459461debeffc413c2
which explains how impacts brought down frigid upper atmosphere air and fierce winds that stirred up thick dust mixed with frozen water vapor, which made rock ice, that suffocated and flash froze animals especially in the Arctic. I had discussed before how the Saturn nova may have brought down such frigid air and rock ice, but the YD impacts seem to be the direct cause, while the Saturn nova may have caused the impacts. I think the impacting objects were said to be up to 80 km in diameter, as high as the densest part of the atmosphere, which removed much of the atmosphere from the Earth.

EMPTY OCEAN BASINS AND THE YD SNOWBALL COMET
_Then, yesterday I posted about a really huge Younger Dryas impactor model from The Worldwide Flood at https://theworldwideflood.com and http://maajournal.com/Issues/2019/Vol19 ... 281%29.pdf
which suggest that a megasized 2,500 km diameter snowball comet with a small rocky core caused the YD impacts and filled the formerly nearly empty ocean basins. What impresses me most about this latest source is the suggestion that the ocean basins were nearly empty. Cardona had discussed this about ten years ago in my interview with him here, but I hadn't given that a lot of thought until now. This new source shows that there are river beds on the ocean floor in several places and those could only have been formed in open air, not under water. I've discussed ancient manmade underwater structures here a few months ago, I think, but this source shows that a huge site that seems to be the former Atlantis is about 2 miles underwater. The author shows that the oceans must have been very shallow and the seafloors largely covered with land animals and plants. So I got some more info about this below, which are quotes.

AZORES UNDERWATER PYRAMID
Resonance in the Submerged Atlantean Continent
http://www.human-resonance.org/submerged.html
_When local yachtsman Diocleciano Silva was deep-sea fishing between São Miguel and Terceira Islands in the Azores Islands in early May 2013 he noticed a perfectly geometric formation on his high-accuracy depth-finder device. Silva's video of the odd sonar data reveals a large pyramid with 4 perfectly flat faces like those of the Great Pyramid.
_Clearly, the depth-finder data displays the base of the pyramid sitting on a small level plain at 360' below sea level. The apex of the pyramid is shown at just 136' below sea level, providing for a total height of 224' (360 - 136 = 224) [=68+meters].
_(T)he Azores Pyramid is the same height as the Teotihuacan Pyramid in present-day Mexico, and also appears to closely match the height of the newly discovered Hummingbird Pyramid in La Maná, Ecuador!
_Furthermore, the Azores Pyramid is 1/3 and the Great Pyramid is 2/3 the height of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun, at 220m.
_The 13.2% alignment of the Azores Pyramid directly links the site with another anomalous ocean bottom formation theorized to be the giant grid pattern of a sunken city, rediscovered by British aeronautical engineer Bernie Bamford and published in 2009. Bamford's disclosure accurately identified what must constitute one of the greatest hydrological projects realized by civilization on Earth, consisting of a gargantuan grid pattern that must have been identified by military sonar scans decades ago.
_A careful examination of the anomalous bathymetric data suggests this mega-structure is comprised of a huge grid-network of canals, each about 2 miles in width, that collected and distributed the total volume of at least four major rivers from the western hills [of the mid-Atlantic ridge].

ATLANTIS CANALS
Debunking Geology’s ‘No Flood, Ever’ Theory
https://theworldwideflood.com/2019/10/1 ... -new-maps/
_Figure 3 is a NOAA map, centered at 24.4°W, 31.3°N, that shows the remnants of the Atlantis canal system. Let us compare it to Plato’s description. First, we note that the canals were straight and formed rectangular sections. The canal perimeter measures approximately 165 km east to west and 120 km north to south, so it was immense. In addition, the canals were sufficiently deep and wide to be discerned by modern instruments. The water source might have been the highland region to the west, which is the eastern extent of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. We can see that the interlocking transverse canals were mostly at right angles and that the system might have drained to the northeast where we find a drainage channel. The distance between the canals varies, but the span between two major east-west canals, identified by the red arrow on Figure 3, measures 15 km, which equates to approximately 85 stadia (assuming that 5.666 stadia equal 1 km). Thus, Plato’s description of the distance between canals is close to what we observe.
_(T)he length of the canal system is 1,775 km, which translates to 9,600 stadia, a number within 4% of Plato’s description.

ALSO INTERESTING
In my weekly posting on the Resources board in my Major Sci News Blog my previous post here about how the YD Impact Flash Froze Animals led me to do a search online from which I found Younger Dryas Baffin Island Impact at https://www.geoledgers.com/Canada/Baffin/Baffin.html
I also often have YD videos from Antonio Zamora to post and this time he had this title - Women survived better after the Younger Dryas - to which I added (South American megafauna also became extinct [Mammoths were NOT cold-adapted]) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXUixE_mxpI
So that supported my previous post here regarding the Arctic animals not being adapted to constant freezing. Also interesting, he said women survived better after the impacts, which is an understatement, as he said in the video that they outnumbered men 17 to one.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:10 am

86428

CHECKING MY RECENT CATACLYSMS TIMELINE FOR ATLANTIS THEORY

5000 BC Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
3000 BC Great Flood Sedimentary Strata Formation
between 3000-2500 BC Chicxulub Impact
2500 BC Asteroid Impacting Pangaea
[Add Ice Sheet and/or Saturn polar column removed most ocean water after the Flood. Oceans needed to be at or near present level in order to flood Pangaea.]
[Add Atlantis was built on the Atlantic Ocean floor after the continents moved apart, because the Atlantic Ocean didn't exist before that. Atlantis canals had to be built after the Great Flood, because Flood sediments would have buried them otherwise.]
2300 BC Younger Dryas Early Bronze Age Collapse
[Add 1200 mile diameter Snowball Comet impact raised ocean levels and flooded Atlantis and the Mediterranean Basin.]
1700 BC Sodom & Gomorrah Impact (See http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 )
1200 BC Late Bronze Age Collapse

Offhand, it's hard to imagine that the ocean levels could have dropped so low from Ice Sheet formation and/or Saturn polar column attraction, although the river beds on the ocean floor strongly suggest that it's true.

Maybe I'll get time to check out the following Creationist sites to see if they have anything useful on Atlantis. I doubt that they do.
- https://creation.com/search#gsc.tab=0&g ... gsc.page=1
- https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A ... e&ie=UTF-8
- https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A ... e&ie=UTF-8
I might also try Catastrophism.com at https://www.catastrophism.com/intro/sea ... oom_cat=-1

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:14 am

86775

NOT ATLANTIS CANALS

Two posts ago I posted info from this and related websites about Atlantis canals on the seafloor when ocean levels were much lower than now:
https://theworldwideflood.com/2019/10/1 ... -new-maps/

The following article shows the image of the gridlike arrangement of seafloor canals from Google maps and it explains that those are not canals. They are artifacts of mapping the seafloor with sonor using overlapping maps. I was suspicious that such was the case when I noticed that the so-called canals cross some of the hills on the seafloor. Canals can't go over hills. I'll quote the last paragraph of the article.

Did I find the lost underwater civilization of Atlantis?
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/atlantis.html
"When you see strange grid-like formations on the seafloor while using an online mapping tool, what you are really seeing is two (or more) different maps layered on top of each other. One map may show a large, low-resolution picture of the ocean floor. This map will show little detail and will look smooth. The other map, or 'data set,' often looks like a bunch of grid-like lines overlaying the smooth, low-detail map. The path of the lines show the paths traveled by the ships that gathered these higher-resolution sonar readings of smaller patches of the ocean."

BUT THE OCEAN LEVELS WERE NONETHELESS VERY LOW A FEW THOUSAND YEARS AGO IMO

I say that because there are numerous riverbeds on the seafloors. There are also manmade structures deep underwater. The city off the coast of Cuba is a mile or more deep as I recall. So the science site I originally discussed above is surely wrong about the seafloor grid near Portugal and Morocco. But it's likely right about the former very low sea levels. It seems likely also right about the flooding of the Mediterranean Sea during the Younger Dryas event. The theory that a 1200 mile diameter snowball comet crashed between Antarctica and Africa and filled the ocean basins is possible at this point, but I don't know where the salt and other minerals in ocean water would have come from (maybe from evaporated or volcanic salt deposits). I need to compare that theory with Cardona's theory that the polar column removed ocean water and later returned it. Also with consideration of how much ocean water could have been precipitated onto the ice sheet/s and/or ice caps. Earth History is a complicated topic.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:59 am

88649

SEA LEVEL CHANGES

I found several theories about causes of sea level changes. I'm most interested for now in what can cause the sea level to drop over a mile or two for several decades or centuries. The riverbeds on the sea floors indicate that the sea levels were extremely low, over two miles lower than now, I think. I suppose the riverbeds could have formed rapidly, within a year's time perhaps, if there were extensive flash floods, especially in soft sea floor sediments. So maybe the sea floors were only exposed briefly. But the city near Cuba that's a mile or more deep indicates that sea level in that area was very low for some time, at least a few years, if the builders were very foolhardy. But if they weren't, then it must have been that low for at least a few decades -- unless that area of sea floor has sunk. The Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea were both extremely shallow a few thousand years ago, so the oceans may have been as well.

WIKIPEDIA: PAST SEA LEVEL
_The current sea level is about 130 metres higher than the historical minimum. Historically low levels were reached during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), about 20,000 [probably 5- or 6,000 -- ed.] years ago. The last time the sea level was higher than today was during the Eemian, about 130,000 years ago. ... sea levels have been comparatively stable over the past 6,000 [probably 4,000] years.

[QUOTING FROM CARDONA'S BOOKS]

NEWBORN STAR p.98
Doggerland ... was just one of many [place]s around the world that was inundated by the rising sea levels brought about by the melting of the glaciers at the end of the Pleistocene Ice Age. In this particular region, the sea is believed to have been 390 feet lower than at present. [The Azores pyramid is 360 feet below sea level.]

METAMORPHIC STAR p.195
At the end of the Ice Age, sea levels rose due to the melting of glacial ice. In some areas, however, crustal rebound has been found to have exceeded sea-level rise.

PRIMORDIAL STAR
[PETROLEUM]
p.65 ... oil was formed in association with sea level changes. 1
1 New Scientist (May 4, 1996), p. 14.
[SATURN FLARES]
_p.247 Stellar flares in the relative vicinity of other astral bodies tend to change the rotational period of those bodies. A change in spatial electrical environment might also induce rotational change. Whether rotation is speeded up or slowed down would depend on whether the astral bodies receive an extra electrical impetus or pass into an environment of lesser electrical potential.2 As we deduced in relation to the end of the Pleistocene, Earth would have reduced its rotational speed during proto-Saturn's flare-up.3 Earth would therefore also have braked or speeded up during the previous flare-ups we are here considering. And, as deduced in relation to the end of the Pleistocene, such changes in rotational speed would have caused geological havoc. ...
_In the main there was more to oceanic activity than just a change in sea levels. One of the first devastations caused by Earth's braking would have been the irruption of the world's oceans which would have continued circumnavigating at their original speed due to inertia before eventually slowing down. This would have been equivalent to a colossal multiple tsunami of global proportions which would have caused them to sweep over the land, carrying whatever lay in their immediate path to destruction. We saw this transpiring at the end of the Pleistocene5 and, in fact, all the other cataclysms that resulted from Earth's change of rotational speed during that period had occurred throughout all earlier geologic breaks and extinction events but on a much more destructive scale. It should be noted that some of these past changes would have involved a speeding up of Earth's rotation, in which case the oceans would have temporarily lagged behind. But this would still have entailed an oceanic incursion that would have occurred in reverse while the opposite shores caught up with Earth's lagging seas.
[SEA LEVEL FLUCTUATIONS]
_p.397-398 Sea level changes have been claimed for various ages. But let us stick to the end of the last Ice Age and our bench-mark figure. The problem here is that, at the end of the Ice Age, according to Edward Weyer, "sea levels dropped in some parts of the world, while in others it rose." 1 In those places where it did rise, "sea level stood about one hundred feet or so above its present position."2
[SEA FLOOR OPENINGS]
_p.405 To get a rise in sea level of 150 feet today, you'd have to melt more than half the Antarctic ice.
_Cathles and Hallam thus concluded that, since the ocean bottoms, very much like the continents, are composed of individual rocky plates drifting on the partly molten mantle, these plates sometimes drift apart "opening up deep rifts" into which water would descend, thus creating a drop in sea levels around the world. "Molten rock from the mantle would then slowly refill the rift, pushing sea levels back up." Ocean levels could also fall, according to this theory, when a sea floor is "squeezed by the motion of crustal plates on either side of it." This, it has been proposed, "would increase the density of the seafloor, causing it to sink into the mantle." The squeezed plate would eventually snap back, according to Cathles. "But it would take many millennia."4
[SOME FORMER SEA LEVELS]
_p.407 And as William Hobbs discovered: "Upon the coast of Southern California may be found all the features of wave-cut shores now in perfect preservation, and in some cases as much as fifteen hundred feet above the level of the sea."2 This is a situation that is found all over the world as the following excerpts make clear.
_... "Raised beaches, tilted up toward the centers of glaciation, can be traced on the coasts of Scandinavia and North America, and around the Great Lakes; these beaches can be dated by fossil shells or pollens or by the radiocarbon method."5
_"... successively higher beach lines [are also] found above sea level along Hudson Bay and the rising bottom of the north Atlantic" while "sunken beach lines [are found] along the south African coasts."4
[SUDDEN SEA LEVEL CHANGES]
_p.413 ... in order for such a terraced step to rise above sea level without being eroded into a gentle slope, a sudden upsurge of the land is called for. An entire series of such terraced beaches speaks loudly for a succession of such uplifts with transitional episodes of tectonic tranquility. Thus, contrary to what Ginenthal assumed, rather than indicating prima facie evidence of gradual change, it is these very intermediate terraced beaches that indicate sudden catastrophic uplifts of the land.

[GORDON WILLIAMS ARTICLES]
Gordon P. Williams, Changing Sea Levels
Gordon P. Williams, Our Tilted Earth
Gordon P. Williams, The Mammoths' Demise - a correct solution requires more facts

Changing Sea Levels
http://funday.createaforum.com/1-10/x-1 ... 38/#msg338
_From: Aeon V:3 (Dec 1998) Gordon P. Williams
[EARTH'S ROTATION STOPPED]
_In a previous article, Frederic Jueneman toyed with the idea concerning what would happen to Earth's oceans had Earth, at one time, ceased its rotation ... all that seawater deprived of centrifugal force will want to flow back outward [toward the poles]. ... Hence it would flow both northward and southward ... to inundate the temperate and frigid latitudes.... He then asked: "Could this be among the reasons for Earth's global myths of floods? Could this explain in some measure why hecatombs of broken and smashed animals bones literally blanket the Arctic regions?" [2] This led Richard Smith to [ask] "Why isn't the same thing true of the Antarctic area?" [3]
[POLAR COLUMN VORTEX]
_To this, Dwardu Cardona then replied: ... "I, on the other hand, would like to offer a different explanation for the conditions found in the Arctic area. Despite the supposed, and conflicting, dates of the remains in question, it is my honest opinion that the vast fields of broken bones mixed with sand, uprooted and smashed trees, and stones of various sizes, all frozen in muck, owe their occurrence to the same polar column which Jueneman himself had elsewhere described as a churning vortex of planetary proportions. [4] Although Jueneman did not mean his hypothesis to apply to the Saturnian configuration, it can easily be made to do so. And, in fact, the Saturnian axis mundi is often described in similar terms - as a twirling vortex and/or churning mountain. It is, again in my opinion, this churning vortex, this planetary tornado, that was the direct cause of the massive carnage the remains of which blanket the Arctic regions. The animals that were caught in this vortex were literally churned' to pieces. Trees were uprooted and smashed, rocks were flung about, and the whole was mixed and finally frozen in situ. Thus the animal remains are not fossilized, as neither are the trees petrified. [5] "The reason why we do not find the same state of affairs in the Antarctic should then be self-evident. There was no axis mundi churning above Earth's south celestial pole." [6]
[EARTH'S AXIS TILTED]
_... I find that neither Jueneman's nor Cardona's explanation ... is satisfactory. ... The surging oceans responsible for the deposits in the north were not present in the southern oceans. The Antarctic continent, an integral part of Earth's crust, was, in early historical time, in a near-equatorial environment supporting the development of the flora and fauna which are now found there in fossilized form. Earth's overall shape was recast into the "Orphic Egg" of myth [8] by the action of Saturn as it drew and elevated Earth's crust in the opposite hemisphere to the Antarctic continent. The first oceans would have formed about the Antarctic continent as the crust, after first being lowered as the Samfrau [9] geosyncline [10] developed, was finally parted from the land that remained. ... Saturn, as the "Sun of Night," [11] was the dominant body of the equatorial heavens above the elevated region of the "Orphic Egg." [12] After periodic visits by Jupiter, Saturn was finally deposed. This region now rests beneath our northern sky, it having shifted through 90-deg as Earth toppled. This sequence of events is possibly that told in the "Wars of the Titans." In the process, mass was lost from Earth's present northern hemisphere and our globe was recast in a pear-shaped form. With this change in the levels of the Earth's crust, a transfer of the oceans from about the southern continent towards the north would follow. Early sea levels would have been quite low and much less saline.... The region of greatest uplift would have been in the north polar regions where the initial adjustment to the loss of continental crust and mantle would have been initially most rapid. It would appear from what ensued, and the macrogeomorphology that was created, that the stress upon Earth's crust in the north finally reached the breaking point. The shallow Arctic Ocean broke open to expose its present depth. ... The rush of water into the Arctic basin would have been accentuated by the movement of North America to the south and west over the northern end of the East Pacific Rise into the Pacific Ocean. Tsunami waves generated by this movement would have been capable of carrying all the discovered debris (and possibly a lot more yet to be discovered or which has been destroyed), together with the mangled remains of animals, into the valleys of the Alaskan rivers and the Arctic Ocean. Tsunamis, generated elsewhere by the movement of the continental mass, would have overrun low coastlines and surged along the length of major river basins, destroying everything in their path and scouring out valleys on their retreat.
... The lands about the northern Atlantic continue to rise, as evidenced by the strand lines that have been found northwest and southeast of Hudson Bay, Greenland, Iceland, Scotland and Scandinavia. Rather than having caused the depression of these lands, the Arctic ice sheet may have actually retarded the rate of their isostatic recovery.
_Notes
[2] F. B. Jueneman, "The Terrestrial Sea: A Critical Model of Science and Myth," AEON IV:6 (May 1997), p. 33.
[3] R. M. Smith, "Some Thoughts on the Saturnian Sun and Polar Column," AEON V:1 (November 1997), p. 5.
[4] F. B. Jueneman, "The Polar Column: A Physical Model of Myth," AEON I:4 (July 1988), pp. 36 ff.
[5] E. M. Benson, as reported in Pursuit (October 1969).
[6] D. Cardona, "Some Thoughts on the Saturnian Sun and Polar Column," AEON V:1 (November 1997), p. 6.
[8] But see here, D. Cardona, "The Evolution of the Cosmogonic Egg," AEON III:5 (May 1994), pp. 52 ff., & idem, "The Beginning of Time," in ibid., pp. 75-76, for a different interpretation of the Orphic egg. Ed.
[9] This term was coined from the names of the continents involved: South America, South Africa, and Australia.
[10] A. L. du Toit, Our Wandering Continents (1937).
[11] D. Cardona, "The Sun of Night," KRONOS III:1 (Fall 1977), pp. 31 ff.; idem, "Night Sun," Frontiers of Science IV:1 (March-April 1982), pp. 29 ff.
[12] D. Cardona, "Intimations of an Alien Sky," AEON II:5 (February 1992), pp. 5 ff.

Our Tilted Earth by Gordon Williams
_From: SIS Chronology and Catastrophism Workshop 1993 No 2 (Jan 1994)
REVIEWS: Our Tilted Earth by Gordon Williams
_Suppose a rotating solid sphere in space is covered with a layer of plastic putty and the axis of rotation is tilted quickly by an external force which does not impinge directly on the putty. Viewed from a fixed position outside, parts of the surface would experience a rapid change of velocity (speed and direction) after the tilt. The acceleration requires a force and this should cause the layer of putty to be compressed in some places and extended in others, seen as folding, ridging and other changes in the levels of the surface. Williams believes this has happened to the Earth and he describes the evidence for past movements of the Earth's crust in both hemispheres in convincing detail. But to an observer on the surface the sphere would continue to rotate at the same angular velocity and there would be no forces on the surface caused by the new position of the axis, only those needed to tilt the axis, which would have quite different effects. Is there a definitive answer to the question which view is correct? The effect on the surface would also depend on the nature of the external force. If it does act mainly on the surface zone, causing it to slide over the relatively liquid magma below, then the force causing distortion of the surface layer would be the difference between the external imposed force and the frictional force at the interlayer, plus that due to inertia of the moving mass. ... Williams accepts the Velikovsky claim that an external force was caused by the close passage of a cosmic body, Venus. ... Fossils of trees swept away by raging sea currents and powerful wind storms in world wide devastation indicate the direction and extent of the forces. ... Williams has more papers in preparation on Earth's Greatest Earthquake and The World Mountain, involving even more unorthodox views about Saturn.

PS, RE: NOT ATLANTIS CANALS
In my previous post I quoted a blog, I think, which explained that the grid on the sea floor (that I previously considered to be possible Atlantis Canals) is just the track of the ship/s that took the sonar pictures of the sea floor in that location. But there's still a question about it. Why did the ship/s follow that grid-like route? It looks like they were looking for something. I wonder what.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:16 pm

88847

Yesterday I posted a lot above about what may have caused sea levels to drop so low in the past that riverbeds formed there near continents and cities were built there. I hope to return to that topic before long with a suggestion of what the most likely cause was. For now here's a related topic, returning to Tiahuanaco.

TIAHUANACO UPLIFTED FROM SEA LEVEL, PUZZLE SOLVED
Having let Tiahuanaco simmer for a few months, I'm ready to rethink the issue. It's an ancient megalithic city near Lake Titicaca over 12,000 feet up in the central Andes Mountains. The lake is salt water with some ocean life in it. It has a port that apparently was able to handle a hundred ships. The remains of the inhabitants are said to lie in gulleys nearby that are buried in silt. The city was also buried in about 6 feet of silt. The lake is big enough that it could hold a hundred ships, but it probably was used for shipping only before the area uplifted. The city was probably built just above sea level and the land along with the lake uplifted with the mountains during a cataclysm. That's what Velikovsky wrote and what Nick argued earlier.

Previously, I thought it unlikely that the city could have remained intact if it had initially been at sea level and then uplifted with the Andes Mountains. But now I suppose the city was not inhabited again after the uplift. I had thought that it was built on the lake shore after the uplift. The inhabitants likely drowned from flooding as the uplift event began. The ships probably all sank from the tsunamis. Maybe some will be found in the lake some day. The uplift likely occurred when the huge asteroid hit the supercontinent, Pangaea, and the continents broke apart. As the continents slid over the Earth's mantle, the Moho layer, friction kicked in when the speed of movement slowed and the friction caused the uplift as viscous magma stuck to the underside of the sliding continent. I date the breakup and uplift event at about 2,500 BC, about 500 years after the Great Flood, and 100 years or so before the Younger Dryas Saturn Nova event.

In my post on Jan. 27 http://thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/ ... =435#p4492 I still thought it likely that the asteroid impact on Pangaea that broke up the supercontinent and caused continents to move rapidly apart and build mountains occurred in the late stages of the Great Flood. But Mike Fischer persuaded me more recently that the Pangaea breakup event didn't occur until a few hundred years later. Here's my key statement from that post. "Anyway, anything already there (like the city of Tiahuanaco) would have been buried under the sedimentary strata deposited by the Great Flood immediately prior to the uplift." So now it's more plausible that Tiahuanaco was built after the Great Flood near sea level, but before the Pangaea breakup and mountain uplift event a few hundred years later. Tihuanaco was flooded as uplift began. It wasn't built above 12,000 feet. It was apparently a colony of Egypt after the Great Flood. Egypt was perhaps at a higher elevation than Tiahuanaco initially.

Following are links to what I had posted before regarding TIAHUANACO, much of which is probably obsolete.
p.20. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=285
p.22. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=315
p.23. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=330
p.29. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=420
p.30. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=435
TIAHUANACO PUZZLE CONTINUED
TIAHUANACO SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
p.31. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=450
p.32. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=465
MORE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS
p.33. thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=480

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:12 pm

89201

TWO FLOODS

This is my third post here this week. A year ago I posted a message at http://thunderbolts.info/forum3/phpBB3/ ... =300#p2961
That was when I became aware that there were probably two major Floods on Earth instead of just one. The first Flood occurred just before the beginning of the Golden Age. The second occurred at the end of the Golden Age. An iridium layer containing microspherules, nanodiamonds etc was deposited during each Flood, possibly from Saturn novas or flares. I've now come across an article from 2004 which also contended that there were two Floods. The author thought they were 3,500 years apart, but I think they were only 500 or so years apart. Cardona has said that there was an uplifted area on Earth at the base of the Saturn plasma column, but I don't think its collapse caused continental drift. It's possible that one or more major impacts did cause a tilt of Earth's axis and/or a shift of the poles. I'm posting highlights from the article below.

Confusion Breeds on Assumptions
_From: SIS C & C Review 2004:1 Incorporating Workshop 2004:2 (May 2004) G. P. Williams
_The author proposes that there were two distinct major catastrophes – the Deluge, which ended the Paradisical Age, and the Flood, which ended the Golden Age and ushered in the Modern Age. He uses geological and mythical evidence to show that the first catastrophe was due to the destruction of a world mountain and the second was due to an axial tilt.
_The poles of the World did once change their situation, and were at first in another posture from what they are in now, till the inclination happen'd; This the ancient Philosophers often make mention of, as Anagoras, Empedocles, Orogenes, Leucippus, Democritus; as may be seen in Laertius, and in Plutarch; and the Stars, they say, at first were carried about the Earth in a more uniform manner, poles had once stood in another posture. A shift of the poles would have serious repercussions on the crust, due to the changes required in rotational velocity when moved to different latitudes. Such an event was recorded globally in myth and ancient records which told of such things as aberration in the Sun's movement, the disappearance of Atlantis, the twelve tasks of Hercules and the original Flood mythology.
_I retraced the movement of continental land-forms through their morphology, such as the island arcs of the south-west Pacific Ocean area I was familiar with from my previous work. As such forms are the result of movement down-slope, being found in the toe of a slip, or slump, I located an ancient mountain that gave rise to them and which I identified as a crustal bulge formed when Earth was under the influence of the gravity of Saturn. This was the source of the potential energy, which, when released and modified by seismic waves and the Coriolis Effect on a continental mass, was responsible for all initial continental movement.
_Unfortunately, in following the mytho-historical record and accepting it as correct, it was not possible to make a clear distinction between past Ages because no clear line had been drawn between the Deluge and the Flood.
_in Genesis, Ch. 1, verse 14, Moses relates of the time when there were seasons before the advent of night and day – even though it was the two greater lights (Sun and Moon) that brought night and day to era 3,500 years before the Flood. Therefore, both the event of the Deluge and the event of the Flood appear to have been merged in the telling, but I consider that each of these events marked the end of one era and the beginning of the next, with the upheaval accompanying each transition providing material for a spate of sedimentary deposition – in river valleys to begin with and later in delta regions. There was also aggradation in inlets and bays as the transported material reached the sea and moved along the coast. When given their correct dating according to the historical record, on the global scale these indicated two separate dates. The best example of this is in the Tigris-Euphrates Valley which has been dated in two stages: a) c. 7,000 years ago – the area towards the confluence of the two rivers, b) 3-4,000 years ago – the area further from there through the swamplands, which are in an eutrophic state, to the coast. The absence of lateral coastal currents in the gulf has enabled the sedimentation process to proceed without the usual coastal erosion that affects most other deltas.
_A shift of the Earth's axis would have provided the material for the second phase. While the actual trigger of the event was quick, the process in its complete form would have extended over a considerable period. The story of these two events is told in its cryptic form in the mythological and historical records, but they await suitable translation.
_The Creation (when Earth, as a satellite of Saturn, was accumulating its smooth form) is told in the ancient literature as follows: They say the first Earth was much greater than the present, higher and more advanc'd into the Air: That it was smooth and regular in its surface, without Mountains or Valleys, but hollow within,[3 ] and was spontaneously fruitful, without ploughing or sowing [4 ].
_Although the biblical record tells of events before Creation, the biblical Creation and first catastrophe, or Deluge, which ended the Paradisical Age, begins with the break-up of the smooth form into the broken state it is today. This occurred when Saturn was banished to the netherworld, according to one of several versions, and Earth's crustal bulge, or mountain, consequently collapsed. The reflected light from Saturn was replaced by the weaker reflection of the Moon as Earth changed from being a satellite of Saturn to being a planet in its own right, in its own orbit about the Sun. With the Moon, born of Earth, as its new satellite and rotating on the Plane of the Ecliptic, Earth experienced a regular night and day for the first time and a continuous spring climate, known as the Golden Age, was enjoyed by most people in the Northern hemisphere. This Golden Age lasted until the tilting of the Earth about 3,500 years later
_Because a difference between the Deluge and the Flood was not clearly determined, it was assumed that the Deluge and the Flood were one and the same event. However, when the available evidence is taken into account, it can be seen that they were several thousand years apart and geological erosion cycles indicate the interval as being about 3,500 years.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:25 pm

91582

CAUSES & CATACLYSMIC EFFECTS OF CHANGES IN EARTH'S ROTATIONAL VELOCITY

Cardona wrote quite a bit about evidence that Earth's rotation slowed down catastrophically during Saturn flares. Following are some excerpts from his books.

SATURN FLARES & VOLCANISM

FLARE STAR
_p.372 And this brings us back to solar flares. These flares from the Sun do not only affect Earth's magnetic field, they also tend to slow down Earth's rotation. This came to light in 1956 when Andre Danjon detected a sudden deceleration of Earth's rotation following a solar flare.4 A repeat performance then took place in 1960. ... Earth's rotation eventually stabilized close to its pre-flare value.3
_p.377 As Alfred de Grazia noted, "if the Earth's rotation is interrupted, a fracture of the Earth's crust will reduce the energy of the braking and increase the time given to it."5 "There is literally all the difference in the world between an earth slowing in a day and an earth ceasing abruptly to rotate. Indeed, it is impossible for a sudden stop to occur."6 The frictional heat engendered between the bottom of Earth's outer crust and inner regions would have risen upward to the surface through both convection and conduction. And this, in its turn, would have resulted in spontaneous and world-wide volcanic eruptions. Are there any indications that world-wide eruptions occurred anywhere around our benchmark date of 10,000 years ago? On the basis of an article which appeared in the February 14, 1975 issue of Science, Jill Abery could report that: " ... a study of volcanic ash in deep sea cores indicates that there have been global episodes of volcanism, notably in the Mesozoic, Caenozoic and Quaternary [The entire sedimentary rock record was actually deposited in the Great Flood and later Floods, in the last 5 or 6 thousand years - ed.] ... Such greatly increased volcanism has occurred during the last 2 Myrs [no, 6,000 years] and appears to be strongly correlated with the major and rapid fluctuations of climate, sea-levels and ice-sheets associated with the ice-age cycles." 1
_"Today, approximately 500 terrestrial volcanoes are considered to be active or dormant (potentially active). The number of extinct cones, however, greatly exceeds
this - and when one contemplates that many presently extinct volcanoes were active a mere thousand years ago, the rate of extinction, even if only approximately constant over the last ll,500 years, indicates that volcanic activity around that date was severe. Indeed, the volcanic record confirms this ... "2

TSUNAMIS, HEATING & PLAGUES

METAMORPHIC STAR
_pp.126-127 Man remembers more than just the heat [from the Younger Dryas event]. Take the Biblical Enosh (sometimes rendered Enos, not to be confused with Enoch). It was said [in Ginzberg's, The Legends of the Jews] that, in his generation, "God caused the sea to transgress its bounds, and a portion of the earth was flooded."7 The ocean, it was said, "flooded a third part of the earth."8 Other occurrences that transpired during the same generation has led us to believe that the transgression of the sea at this particular time refers to the inundation of the land due to Earth's rotational braking at the time of proto-Saturn's flare-up.9 In keeping with our surmise that humanity thereafter lost its robustness, so we also learn that, in Enosh's time, "man's stature was shortened."11 Just as importantly, it was said that "mankind became ill in his time."12 In fact, the very name Enosh, derived from anash,13 means "sickly"14 and/or "incurable."15 It is as if the devastation of his generation bestowed its mark as a name on this shadowy figure who, despite the flurry of Biblical "begats" that led to his own birth, might not even have existed. After all, despite its derivation, the very name Enosh simply means "man."1 An added feature to this ancient memory was the belief that "the dead bodies of men began to decay."2 As a finality, God was said to have ultimately destroyed Enosh's entire generation.3
... [Hans Bellamy said] "A very significant allusion to the sudden change of temperature from a cold-temperate to a warm-temperate or subtropical climate is given in one of the old tales of the Jews. In this it is reported that, at the time of ... Enos, worms and maggots appeared in the bodies of the dead and their flesh became corrupt. Evidently the corpses, stored in caves and other places, were now no longer preserved by the cold which had previously reigned in that part of the world."5
... [T]he influx of cosmic rays released by proto-Satum's flare-up, to say nothing of the excessive heat itself, would have caused a wide ranging epidemic - a plague if you wish - that felled humanity in large numbers. Heat-related death due to a rise in temperature in Earth's geologic past is not unknown to science.6 And it was due to the heat itself that the cadavers of the fallen would more than likely have decayed on the spot with few survivors left to bury them. Under such widespread circumstances, it is easy to understand why sickness and bodily decay would have been remembered for all time.

DEGLACIATION

FLARE STAR
_p.487 In our own scenario, proto-Saturn's flare-up would have released a certain amount of its internal heat, which heat would have radiated onto Earth, in addition to the heat released through the friction of the sliding plates brought about by the temporary braking of our globe, to say nothing of that expelled through world-wide volcanic vents. It is this combined heat -yes, even including burping methane - that was mainly responsible for the melting of the Pleistocene glaciers.

FOSSILS

FLARE STAR
_p.426 We have already seen that the bones of whales have been discovered in both Tunisia and Algeria in the elevated shorelines of a number of salt lakes which have been dated to the Pleistocene, as also on the elevated beaches of Lake Champlain, which bones were there discovered together with those of seals. Other whale bones have been discovered north of Lake Ontario 440 feet above sea level, 2 as also in Vermont at a height exceeding 500 feet above sea level,3 and in the Montreal-Quebec area at about 600 feet above sea level.4 Although, as Velikovsky noted,5 whales do occasionally enter the St. Lawrence River, whales on the hills in the regions of Vermont and Montreal would have required either an oceanic tide of vast proportions-which, coming from the east, in our case would have been due to tidal rebound or the later regaining of Earth's previous momentum -if not to a lowering of the land. Marine creatures dating to the Pleistocene have also been found at altitudes exceeding 200 feet above sea level along the Gulf coast east of the Mississippi River.6 But even these elevations are nothing when compared to the whale bones that have been discovered in the Andes at an altitude of 5,000 feet.7 Nor will it do to explain these remains as those of whales which died and settled on the sea bottom to be covered by sediments before the sea bed rose gently to form the Andes millions of years ago. This is especially so when the same report offers the scientific conclusion that "the South American mountain chain rose very rapidly from the sea."8 Despite the fact that the same report claims that "geological upthrusting generally destroys fossil belts,"9 a "huge tidal wave," as per Ginenthal,10 would seem to be out of the question. That a tidal wave would have swept the west coast of South America due to the braking of Earth's axial spin we have already seen. But it is doubtful that this wave would have been higher than the Andes. A wave that high would have swept over half the South American continent leaving very little alive, if anything, in its wake. And yet, the fact that other marine life together with such land animals as camels and even rhinoceros were found together with the whales well illustrates the titanic force with which the wave must have hit. However, since raised beaches dating to the time of man are quite evident on these mountains as indicated by Darwin himself, 11 and since it is believed that these same mountains "rose very rapidly from the sea," it can only mean that the whales were cast upon the land by the tidal wave in question before the Andes were raised to their present height. [The same applies to Tiahuanaco as I said here lately - ed.]

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:48 am

93137

THE GREAT CATACLYSMS

I started a thread on my private Funday forum where I can try to put together a comprehensive paper on this topic. Here's what I'm starting with there, just a first draft.

THE GREAT CATACLYSMS

Earth and its creatures have suffered numerous cataclysmic events over the millennia.

At least eight such major events are apparent so far. They are as follows.

1. ..... BC: Earth Formation
- - - - - < http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=12582

2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
- - - - - < zircon & potassium/argon Dating & http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=15407

3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
- - - - - < Septuagint Flood Dating viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3439

4. 3000- BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico
- - - - - < http://newgeology.us/

5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event
- - - - - < http://newgeology.us/

6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event
- - - - - < Masoretic Flood Dating

7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Sodom & Gomorrah Airburst < http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 & http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=7793

8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Claude Schaeffer

COMMENTARY
The following is some commentary on each of these cataclysms, which I haven't posted there yet, since it will need to be edited.

1. ..... BC: Earth Formation
- - - - - < http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=12582
I haven't given this initial "cataclysm" a lot of thought lately, but it seems most likely that Earth formed as part of the Saturn system outside of the solar system, as Cardona has said in his books. The link there is to Charles Chandler's paper on how planets form. I think that's how the Saturn system and the solar system formed in two nearby locations, possibly from the same imploding galactic filament. The Saturn system planets formed in a line and moved inward toward a point near but not at the Sun. Thus, they got into a spiraling orbit which got as close as the orbit of Venus before the planets broke away from the Saturn system and moved to their present orbits. So far, I haven't tried to determine when the implosion of the galactic filament likely began, but Charles has mentioned something like a hundred thousand years or more as a likely amount of time for an implosion. I guess the filament would be several lightyears long. I don't know how long life likely existed on any of the Saturn system planets.

2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation
- - - - - < zircon & potassium/argon Dating & http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=15407
I've discussed the dating with zircon in the granite continents a few pages back in this thread. A Creationist article said they date to 8,000 years or less. It claimed that the dating applies to the entire Earth, but I think it only applies to the Pangaea supercontinent. The link here is to another paper by Charles. He thinks a large asteroid soft-landed on Earth to form the supercontinent. It could have done that, I think, by spiraling down to Earth gradually. I think Mike Fischer said there was already another small land mass, which later became part of Antarctica. So life may have existed on that land mass and then spread to the new supercontinent later after cooling down, since I think it would have been very hot for some time after landing and morphing, i.e. changing shape via gravity etc.

3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
- - - - - < Septuagint Flood Dating viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3439
Most of the sedimentary rock on Earth likely formed during the Great Flood, during meteor bombardment, which along with lunar tides produced tidal waves, that deposited the strata on the supercontinent. The Septuagint Bible may have about the right dating for the Great Flood. One or more Floods likely occurred later. I think megalithic civilization existed after the Great Flood, maybe not before.

4. 3000- BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico
- - - - - < http://newgeology.us/
This impact occurred after the Great Flood and before Event #5, the Pangaea Breakup Event, but it's hard to tell more precisely when. It may have been part of a Saturn nova that produced the iridium layer etc.

5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event
- - - - - < http://newgeology.us/
This event occurred a few centuries after the Great Flood, since mammoths needed enough time after the Flood to number several million by the time of their extinction, according to Mike. This event also produced a major Flood, most likely, since the continents moved quite a bit and the sea level probably wasn't very low. This is when Tiahuanaco was destroyed by Flood and was raised up from sea level to its present height of over 12,000 feet in the Andes.

6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event
- - - - - < Masoretic Flood Dating
This event produced a conflagration and impacts that rapidly melted the ice sheet and caused major Flooding again, which the Masoretic Bible says was Noah's Flood, it seems. I'll have to reread my earlier posts to see why this event was likely separate from Event #5. This event and possibly #5 as well formed more sedimentary rock strata, under which have been found evidence of prior civilization. I didn't realize that previously when I thought all of the strata were deposited by the first Great Flood. This may be when the Grand Canyon formed, as the Colorado Plateau was covered with an ice sheet, I think, and two large lakes drained to erode the canyon.

7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Sodom & Gomorrah Airburst < http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=18628 & http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=7793
I don't know much about the Bronze Age Collapses, but I assume the Airburst the Charles wrote about may have caused it.

8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse
- - - - - < Claude Schaeffer
This collapse was mentioned by Bridgette a few pages back, I think. It involved a lot of fire and earthquake damage over a large area of the Middle East and more.

PS, Clive and Napier wrote that there have likely been more recent smaller-scale cataclysms. I think they suggested that the Roman Empire may have finally collapsed because of meteor impacts and similar cataclysms. That was near 500 AD. So it's only in the last millennium or so that Earth has not suffered from impacts and/or airbursts.

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:43 am

93593

ADDITIONAL CATACLYSMIC EVENTS

I want to find out yet when the following cataclysms occurred.
_Saturn System Breakup
_Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet
_Sea Level Changes
_Pole Shift
_Black Sea Flood
_Mediterranean Flood
_Grand Canyon Formation
_Antarctic Canyon Formation
_Antarctic Ice Sheet

Then I'd be able to plot them on my timeline, although the dates will likely need considerable adjusting.

1. ..... BC: Earth Formation

2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation

3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation

4. 2600 BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico --- (Iridium Deposition)

5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event

6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event --- (Iridium Deposition)

7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse

8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:17 am

93824

TENTATIVE PLACEMENTS OF THE ADDITIONAL CATACLYSMIC EVENTS

_SSB: Saturn System Breakup
_ENIS: Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet
_SLC: Sea Level Changes
_PS: Pole Shift
_BSF: Black Sea Flood
_MF: Mediterranean Flood
_GCF: Grand Canyon Formation
_ACF: Antarctic Canyon Formation
_AIS: Antarctic Ice Sheet

_After Cat.6: Saturn System Breakup. If Saturn flares or novas were the source of the iridium layers, which I show at Cat.4 and Cat.6, then the Saturn system must have broken up after Cat.6. Jupiter replaced Saturn but I don't know for how long and I don't know if Jupiter warmed the Arctic or if the polar column continued under Jupiter. The Arctic was still warm after the Great Flood apparently, due to Saturn, Venus and Mars' presence above the Arctic.
_After Cat.3: The Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet likely formed after the Great Flood, while the Arctic remained warm. The impacts of the Younger Dryas event likely caused the rapid freezing of the Arctic, so the Saturn system must have broken up at that time after first causing a global firestorm, ironically.
_After Cat.3: The Antarctic Ice Sheet likely formed also after the Great Flood.
_After Cat.3: Sea Level likely dropped as the Ice Sheets formed. Did the Saturn polar column pull up much ocean water too, so that the ocean floors were mostly exposed? If so, for how long? So far, I haven't given that much thought. Offhand, it seems improbable, but who knows? The ocean floors do seem to have been nearly dry at least briefly and the underwater city near Cuba was built during very low sea levels, unless that location sank. And let's not forget the riverbeds on the ocean floors.
_During Cat.5 or Cat.6: Pole Shift may have occurred then, as some of my recent posts suggested.
_During Cat.6: Mediterranean Flood likely occurred first, then the Black Sea Flood. The Euro-NorthAmerican Ice Sheet likely melted catastrophically at that time. The Grand Canyon Formation likely occurred then too. The Global Conflagration may have melted the Antarctic Ice Sheet and its Canyon could have formed then and the Ice Sheet reformed shortly afterward, in the same way that the Arctic Ice Sheet formed due to flash freezing from impacts etc.

Cat.1. ..... BC: Earth Formation

Cat.2. 5000 BC: The Pangaea Supercontinent Formation

Cat.3. 3000 BC: The Great Flood Sedimentary Rock Formation
_ENIS
_AIS
_SLC
Cat.4. 2600 BC: The Chicxulub Impact in Mexico --- (Iridium Deposition)

Cat.5. 2500 BC: The Asteroid Impact Pangaea Breakup Event

Cat.6. 2300 BC: The Younger Dryas Saturn Nova Event --- (Iridium Deposition)
_PS
_SSB
_MF
_BSF
_GCF
_ACF
_AIS
Cat.7. 1700 BC: The Middle Bronze Age Collapse

Cat.8. 1200 BC: The Late Bronze Age Collapse

Lloyd
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:22 pm

95385

YOUNGER DRYAS IMPACT LAYER

I'm quoting below some literature on YD Impacts to show some important facts in order to help clarify the order and occurrence of ancient catastrophic events. I hope to find sources that show the YD impact layer in relation to the Chicxulub impact layer and other sedimentary rock layers.

Younger Dryas ‘‘black mats’’ and the Rancholabrean termination in North America
https://cometresearchgroup.org/wp-conte ... 6520-5.pdf
__Implications of YD Black Mats
_No skeletal remains of horse, camel, mammoth, mastodon, dire wolf, American lion, short-faced bear, sloth, tapir, etc., or Clovis artifacts have ever been found in situ within the YD age black mat [and presumably not above it either], and no post-Clovis Paleoindian artifacts have ever been found in situ stratigraphically below it.

Analysis of the Younger Dryas Impact Layer
https://escholarship.org/content/qt03q2 ... f?t=lr5iio
[YD IMPACTS KILLED OFF NEARLY ALL ANIMALS AND PEOPLE IN NORTH AMERICA]
_We have uncovered a thin layer of magnetic grains and microspherules, carbon spherules, and glass-like carbon at nine sites across North America, a site in Belgium, and throughout the rims of 16 Carolina Bays.
_It is consistent with the ejecta layer from an impact event and has been dated to 12.9 ka BP coinciding with the onset of Younger Dryas (YD) cooling and widespread megafaunal extinctions in North America.
_At many locations the impact layer is directly below a black mat marking the sudden disappearance of the megafauna and Clovis people.
_The distribution pattern of the Younger Dryas boundary (YDB) ejecta layer is consistent with an impact near the Great Lakes that deposited terrestrial-like ejecta near the impact site and unusual, titanium-rich projectile-like ejecta further away.
[ICE SHEET IMPACT EVIDENCE]
_High water content associated with the ejecta, up to 28 at.% hydrogen (H), suggests the impact occurred over the Laurentide Ice Sheet.
_YDB microspherules and magnetic grains are highly enriched in TiO2.
_Magnetic grains from several sites are enriched in iridium (Ir), up to 117 ppb. The TiO2/FeO, K/Th, TiO2/Zr, Al2O3/FeO+MgO, CaO/Al2O3, REE/chondrite, FeO/MnO ratios and SiO2, Na2O, K2O, Cr2O3, Ni, Co, U, Th and other trace element abundances are inconsistent with all terrestrial and extraterrestrial (ET) sources except for KREEP, a lunar igneous rock rich in potassium (K), rare-earth elements (REE), phosphorus (P), and other incompatible elements including U and Th.
_Normal Fe, Ti, and 238U/235U isotopic abundances were found in the magnetic grains, but 234U was enriched over equilibrium values by 50% in Murray Springs and by 130% in Belgium.
_40K abundance is enriched by up to 100% in YDB sediments and Clovis chert artifacts.
[EVIDENCE OF INTENSE FIRES]
_Highly vesicular carbon spherules containing nanodiamonds, glass-like carbon, charcoal and soot found in large quantities in the YDB layer are consistent with an impact followed by intense burning.
_Four holes in the Great Lakes, some deeper than Death Valley, are proposed as possible craters produced by the airburst breakup of a loosely aggregated projectile.
_... The geographical distribution and composition of the magnetic grains are consistent with an airburst 12.9 ka ago near the Great Lakes of an object unusually enriched in titanium and other incompatible elements.
_Terrestrial-like ejecta fell close to an impact site near Gainey while projectilerich ejecta fell farther away.
[MORE ICE SHEET IMPACT EVIDENCE]
_High water content in the ejecta favors an airburst over the Laurentide Ice Sheet north of Gainey [MI].
_This is also consistent with the thinness of the YDB impact layer suggesting that relatively little terrestrial ejecta were created due to shielding of the airburst from the ground by the ice sheet.
[RELATION TO LUNAR IMPACTS]
_Microspherules from various sites including Gainey and magnetic grains ... were unusually enriched ... comparable to lunar KREEP and inconsistent with other terrestrial or meteoritic sources except for meteorite SAU-169 whose KREEP-like composition [potassium (K), rare-earth elements (REE), phosphorus (P)] is attributed to a lunar Procellarum KREEP Terrane origin.
_it is coincidental that SAU-169 fell in Oman near the time of the YD impact50.
[CAUSE OF FIRES]
_Analysis of carbon spherules found in the YDB layer at many sites indicates that they were likely formed both from the impact and from extensive hot forest fires ignited by the ensuing atmospheric shockwave and falling hot debris.
_Evidence of nanodiamonds in carbon spherules which is only consistent with an impact event will be discussed in later papers.
_High concentrations of soot, evidence of very high temperature burning following the impact, were found in the YDB at several sites1 and will be discussed elsewhere.
_Similarities in the bulk composition of carbon spherules and associated copal (amber) spherules suggest that these spherules were produced by the high temperature burning of tree sap.
_Glass-like carbon and charcoal found in the YDB at many sites appears to have been produced by the burning of trees under low oxygen conditions as the YD impact atmospheric shockwave raced across North America.
[BLACK MAT IS ALGAE]
_The black mat which overlays the YDB layer at many sites, marking the point above which no megafauna fossils or Clovis points are found, was not formed by the impact but instead appears to consist mainly of algal material [algae] produced by dying organic matter and burned material.
[MORE ON THE ICE SHEET]
_It is likely that the YD impact caused the failure of the Laurentide Ice Sheet sending large quantities of ice into the North Sea, shutting down the thermohaline ocean circulation, and initiating 1300 years of Younger Dryas cooling [probably a much shorter period of cooling, since dating methods are inaccurate - ed.].
_This was accompanied by the injection of dust and water into the upper atmosphere blocking sunlight for an extended period of time and lowering temperatures suddenly.
_The impact event followed by extensive fires and sudden climate change likely contributed together to the rapid extinction of the megafauna and many other animals.
[YD IMPACTOR/S & CRATERS]
_... Toon et al.51 suggest that it requires an airburst with energy of 10^7 megatons, a >4 km-wide comet, to cause continent-wide destruction on a scale observed at the YDB.
_Such an object undoubtedly would have left a significant crater.
_We have speculated that multiple 2-km objects struck the 2-km thick Laurentide Ice Sheet at a low angle leaving negligible traces after deglaciation.
_... Fig. 16 shows a depth profile of the Great Lakes where it has long been known that four of the deepest holes in North America exist in Lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron and Ontario.
_Three of these holes are deeper than Death Valley.
_They are unlikely to have been caused by the action of glaciers or moving water52.
_The Finger Lakes region of New York radiate out from the hole in Lake Ontario as if they were formed by the force of the impact pushing water and ice to the south.
_... Culler et al54 determined the ages of lunar microspherules, many enriched in TiO2, by 40Ar/39Ar dating and found that lunar impacts began increasing dramatically 400 Ma years ago and peaked very recently [Such dating methods are likely way wrong, but the "recent" dates are likely less wrong - ed.].
_These results were not corrected for lunar 40K/K ratios which would make this increase even more recent and dramatic.

METAMORPHIC STAR [By Cardona]
[NOVA DIAMONDS]
_p106 Submicroscopic diamonds have also been found in the Ice Age drift deposits of various countries.
_Since these were discovered in non-metamorphosed sediments, they could not have been produced by pressure and temperature in situ.9
_What has been deduced from this is that submicroscopic diamonds from past supernovae are a common constituent of interstellar dust, and that such dust is then swept up by planets and space debris.10

_p169 Richard Firestone and Allen West had been closer to the truth in their endorsement of the supernova theory that was originally proposed by the now neglected William Topping.
_As noted, the main evidence for this assumption came from the exotic materials that have been discovered in association with the much discussed Clovis sites, as also elsewhere.
[MOON WAS NOT FAR AWAY]
_On examination, this composition was found to be similar to that contained in some of the lunar rocks recovered by the Apollo astronauts.1
_This indicates that our Moon, which we claim was not yet orbiting Earth, was also bombarded by the same material, which means that, wherever the Moon had been situated, it could not have been far off.
_What makes this even more significant is that the potassium-40 that came to light in association with the Clovis sites was found to be "much more abundant" than that in the Solar System while being closer to what can be produced by supernovae.2
_The problem that this raised was the specific supernova's 250 light-year distance, which is why the culpability of the event was shifted to its theorized cometary offspring which would have taken the required 28,000 years to bridge the gap.
[SATURN NOVA SOURCE]
_In our scheme, with proto-Saturn much closer to Earth, the initial cause can be dated to the very time of the climatic onset it instigated, with the exotic materials in question having been released through its sub-stellar flare.
[CARBON 14 DATING PROBLEM]
_p180 As it, however, has now been known for quite some time, nearby supernovae tend to increase the carbon-14 content in Earth's atmosphere.7
_p181 ... how much more would the closer, even if less energetic, proto-Saturnian flare-up have disrupted Earth's atmospheric carbon-14 content?

Lloyd
Posts: 5021
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:09 pm

95624

YOUNGER DRYAS FLARES OR NOVAS

I just posted info yesterday above on the YD Impact Layer. Below I'm quoting Cardona's books on the topic of flares/novas as source of some of the YD sediment layer. I still want to see where that layer is in relation to the Chicxulub impact layer. I haven't looked yet.

FLARE STAR
[SATURN FLARES REASONING]
_p330 And since, despite some earlier disclaimers,3 Saturn is still more star-like than planet-like, a nova-like outburst is not only feasible, but so is a recurring one.
_Thus, in contradistinction to Van Flandern, only one body is required.
_The difference, as we have seen with novae and supernovae, is that gaseous bodies can flare up without annihilating themselves, where the emitted material would mainly be in gaseous form.
[BROWN DWARF, NOT SUPERNOVA]
_p487 As previously noted, it has now been theorized that radiation from a nearby supernova about 12,500 years ago would not only have reset Earth's radiocarbon clocks, it would also have caused "various catastrophic phenomena such as heating the atmosphere, melting ice sheets and causing extinctions."1
_Given their astronomical distances, however, one really wonders if supernovae could actually cause such direct repercussions on Earth, despite the "nearby" tag attached to the one discussed above.
_It seems more likely that if Earth's dire consequences at the end of the Pleistocene requires it to have been bathed in stellar radiation, the source would have had to be much closer than a "nearby" supernova.
_The only inch I'll give is that the stellar flare responsible would not by astronomical standards be considered "super."
_After all, as already noted, non-dwarf stars are not the only astronomical luminaries that have a propensity for flaring up in nova-like brilliance.
[CAUSE OF FLARES]
_Even comets do - and they do so through a similar, if not identical, mechanism - by throwing off shells of matter.
_Some of them even do so repeatedly.
_Such, for instance, was the case with comet SchwassmannWachmann 1, which has been observed to throw off such shells more than once, each time increasing its brightness by at least a hundred-fold.2
_Such cometary flare-ups are not known to cause any catastrophic effects on Earth.
_While "nearby" supernovae remain too far, "nearby" comets are much too frail.
_Even flares from "nearby" brown dwarf stars would fail to do the job - unless by "nearby" we mean exactly that.
[FLARE RADIATION]
_p501 Further discoveries have also come to light in relation to brown dwarf flare-ups.
_Beams of radiation emitted by brown dwarfs during these outbursts have now been calculated to be "thousands of times brighter than any released by the Sun."2
_These flares are now known to be produced above the brown dwarfs' magnetic polar regions and, in fact, they could be classed as super-aurorae.
_If solar storms can, as they do, wreak havoc on our world, one can just imagine the mayhem such super-flares would have caused on an Earth suspended directly beneath one of these flaring poles.
[CYCLIC FLARING]
_Fair enough, the ultra-bright flashes from one of these dwarfs seem to occur in a periodic cycle more or less every two hours, which is why it has been likened to a pulsar.3
_But pulsars are believed to be created when stars erupt as supernovae.4
_Is it not then possible that brown dwarfs which emit such short cyclical pulses had also undergone similar nova-like disruptions, very much in the manner we have proposed proto-Saturn to have done?
_In this respect it matters little whether pulsars pulse in lighthouse fashion due to their theorized high rotational speed,5 or whether they oscillate due to inherent electrical discharges.6

PRIMORDIAL STAR
[NOVA FLARES TO RINGS]
_p73 Novae can be recurrent ones and one of these, which seems to flare up every twenty years or so, is T. Pyxidis in the dim southern constellation Pyxis.
_Somewhat like SN1987 A, this particular recurring nova has also developed a bevy of rings, in this case all concentric ones.4
_It thus seems that rings, which we now know to be common among the gas giant planets of the Solar System, also go hand in glove with stellar flare-ups.
[CYCLIC FLARING]
_p81 If, then, brown dwarf stars are really stars, would we not expect them to behave in like manner?
_If binary stars are prone to birthing recurring novae, why not binary dwarfs?
_And if solitary stars can also flare up, why not brown dwarfs? If stars can discharge by passing from one plasma cell into another, why not brown dwarfs?
_Or if, as per Peratt, stars can electrically unload through pinches in their plasmaspheres, again why not brown dwarfs?
[FLARING INTENSITY]
_p82 Brown dwarf stars have now been sufficiently studied to show that they can, and do, emit strong X-rays4 as well as radio waves during flare-ups of intense energy.5
_However, these brown dwarf outbursts were originally likened to solar flares rather than bona fide novae.6
_But with radio flares 10,000 times stronger than X-ray emissions would otherwise indicate from an object the mass of which is only 6 percent that of the solar orb7 -with beams of radiation "thousands of times brighter than any released by the Sun"8 - one begins to wonder.
_This is especially so since similar radiative energy is also emitted during novae and supernovae outbursts. 9
[DINOSAUR KILLING ASTEROID, NOT SUPERNOVA]
_p230 Luis Alvarez gave up on the theory [of a supernova killing the dinosaurs] because, according to his calculations, a supernova would have had to have been a mere 0.1 of a light year away for it to have transferred the amount of iridium his son had discovered in the Gubbio clay.
_Had it been that close, still according to him, it would simply have killed all life on Earth.
_Besides, had it been a supernova, the iridium isotopes should have been different from Solar System averages, while they should also have been accompanied by plutonium-244.
_At least that was his reason for shifting his attention from a supernova to an asteroid.2
[TIMING OF IMPACTS]
_p239 It is not to be assumed that whatever impacted on Earth necessarily fell during those times of mass extinction.
_Chances are that terrestrial impacts would have occurred at any time.
_Space debris falling to Earth is not necessarily subject to flare-ups.
_It can, however, be concluded that if debris had already been orbiting proto-Saturn, some of it would have been scattered during such flare-ups.
_And even then, whatever such material would have been scooped up by Earth would not necessarily have fallen all at once.
_Some of it could easily have gone into orbit around Earth, to fall to ground with orbital decay.
_All of which would then explain why the suspected impact craters are found in a spread before, within, and after extinction boundaries.
[FLARES AND GEOLOGICAL UPHEAVALS]
_p247 Impacts, electrical and otherwise, were not the sole cause of extinctions, as neither were the major flares themselves and the radiation they let loose.
_As Velikovsky pointed out, there is still one important phenomenon which the supernova theory does not explain, and that is "the geological upheavals that accompanied the great extinctions."!
_But while supernovae do not explain the geological upheavals in question, the proto-Saturnian flare-ups surely do.

METAMORPHIC STAR
[NOVA DUST]
_p190 Because of its much lower mass, proto-Saturn's flare would have fallen quite short of a nova's outburst.
_There is therefore no way in which it could have emitted as much dust as would constitute 33 Earths, let alone the 10,000 Earths mentioned above [from novas].
_But that it did emit a vast quantity of dust there is no question.
_... In proto-Saturn's case, however, a goodly portion of this expanding dust would nonetheless have swept past Earth.
_... But that a fair amount of dust was eventually captured by Earth's gravity is quite certain.
[ICE CORE DUST]
_This is indicated by fluctuations in the electrical conductivity that was measured in a section of a Greenland ice core.
_What this revealed is that "rapid changes in the dust content of the atmosphere" took place during the very period we're concerned with.2
_It was this accumulated dust in the atmosphere that would have hindered proto-Saturn's heat from reaching the ground below.
_This atmospheric dust would have finally settled on the land.
_And this, too, is evidenced by Greenland ice cores which contain as much as 100 times more dust in Pleistocene ice than in that from later times.3
[NORTH POLE SOURCE]
_That this dust came from a polar source, rather than one located above North America's Great Lakes region, is evidenced by its accumulated amount in sediments retrieved from a Greenland lake which contained 1,000 times more cosmic dust than has been found in the oceans.4
[IMPACTS]
_Needless to say, the more rock-solid wreckage that gouged out the Carolina Bays and similar oriented pockmarks would have also been emitted with the dust.
_But would Earth's capture of cosmic dust also apply to those previous cold spells that interlaced the interglacials ahead of the Younger Dryas?
1 "Watching a New Star Make the Universe Dusty," spacedaily.comlreports (July 28, 2008); 0. Chesnau, et al., "VLTI Monitoring of the Dust Formation Event of the Nova V1280 Scorpii," Astronomy & Astrophysics. 487 (2008), pp. 223 ff.
2 U.S. National Report to IUGG, 1991-1994, "The Younger Dryas," American Geophysical Union at agu.org (November 18, 2007).
3 C. U. Hammer, et al., "Continuous Impurity Analysis Along the Dye 3 Deep Core," American Geophysical Union Monograph, 33 (1985), p. 90.
4 Sky & Telescope (April 1987), pp. 367-368.
[FLARE RADIATION]
_p.238 As often stated in our work, despite their difference, both in size and energetic yield, protoSaturn's flare can be compared to supernovae.
_As is now known, these much more active flares unleash a torrent of high-energy radiation including ultraviolet light,5 which, even at their greater distance, manage to increase the ultraviolet aggregate of Earth's atmospheric shell.6
_Imagine then what the radiation from the much nearer, even if less energetic, protoSatumian flare-up would have done to Earth and its atmosphere, to say nothing of its inhabitants.
5 A. Frank, "Cosmic Abodes of Life," Discover (May 2009), p. 49.
6 G. R. Brak:enridge, "Terrestrial Paleoenvironmental Effects of a Late Quaternary Age Supernova," Icarus 46 (1981), p. 85
[SATURN'S FORMER SIZE]
_p251 Although the Satumian scenario that Immanuel Velikovsky reconstructed is immensely different from ours, he was still the first researcher in modem times to realize that Saturn must have flared up in nova-like brilliance sometime in the past.5
_Despite the fact that he mistook its cause, while also misplacing the event in time, he rightly concluded that Saturn must have exceeded Jupiter in size before its prehistoric flare-up.1
_This is a precept that is actually upheld by astronomers who believe that, early in its formative career, Saturn "collapsed suddenly" while flinging out debris, including dust,2 very much as we have posited on the strength of the mytho-historical record.
_Regardless of whether he accepted the details of that theory in their entirety, Fred Hoyle, among others, had little doubt that the present Saturnian planet is the remnant of a larger gas giant.3
[YD COSMIC DUST]
_p324 Cosmic dust continues to be implicated in the inception of the Younger Dryas.
_Elevated levels of helium-3 in sediments associated with this event have been attributed by Paul La Violette "to a sudden influx of a large amount of cosmic dust."3
_As he also indicates, Earth is still "surrounded by a dust cloud" that extends "radially outward" for a few thousand miles.4
_La Violette is also of the opinion that the mass extinctions of the Pleistocene had to have had a solar cause.5
[FORMER FLARING ACTIVITY]
_According to him, several studies "indicate that toward the end of the ice age the Sun was far more active than it is today."6
_Citing the works of H. A. Zook and others, he presents evidence from the "tracks" that solar flares are said to have etched in lunar rocks, indicating that, around that time, "the average solar cosmic ray intensity was 50 times higher than at present," which intensity then started to decline until it reached the current level.7
_p325 The telltale signs of this bombardment are indisputable.
_What remains debatable concerns its source - a supernova or an overactive solar orb.
_In our scheme, the flare-up from the brown dwarf star that had been acting as Earth's primordial sun just as readily accounts for the accumulated evidence.
_As we have also indicated, even though we still maintain our lunar neighbor had not yet been captured in terrestrial orbit, it would still have been bombarded by intensive cosmic rays had it not been too far away from Earth [or Saturn - ed.].

NEWBORN STAR
[SPIRALING SATURN EMISSION]
_p134 Back to the aftermath of the proto-Saturnian flare-up, however, the most bizarre sight that was witnessed by our ancient forefathers, once the blinding light had ebbed enough for the developing heavenly manifestations to be clearly seen, was a fiery stream of matter that was spewing from proto-Saturn's south polar region in an ever widening spiraling path.
_... Recent studies of such a recurring stellar outburst, the one known as RS Ophiuchi, indicates this rather well since its discharge of material came from both its axial poles.4
_The Hubble Space Telescope captured such material spewing forth in a spiral from the star LL Pegasi,5 while the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array - ALMA for short - spotted another spiral structure issuing from the star R. Sculptoris.6
_... One thing we shall definitely stress is that the spiraling matter that was seen being ejected from proto-Saturn was forever after held responsible for the inception of Creation.
_p135 As Jill Purce correctly noted, the mesmerizing influence this symbol had on ancient man was due to the belief that "chaos" had turned into "cosmos" through a "spiral movement."
[DATING THE SATURN EMISSION]
_p238 According to Anthony Peratt, petroglyphs and pictographs actually portray the plasmatic manifestations in the sky that so engrossed our ancient forebears and are to be dated somewhere between 7,000 and 3,000 years BC - that is, between 9,000 and 5,000 years ago.1
_p239 The spiral would therefore have originally formed beneath proto-Saturn, but, due to perspective, ancient man would have had no way to determine that it was so.
_However, as we have already indicated, judging by what we see transpiring in supernovae such as that of RS Ophiuchi, as also through one of Kristian Birkeland's terella experiments, proto-Saturn's resulting separate rings were eventually captured around it in equatorial orbit.
[FROM SPIRAL TO RINGS]
_p240 One other item concerning which I was entirely wrong back in 1984 was my understanding that proto-Satum's resultant primordial rings "were not the rings which presently encircle the planet," which words I actually emphasized.'
_As of this writing I can safely state that, while proto-Satum's ring system continued to evolve down through the ages, the planet's present rings are definitely the evolutionary result of its primordial encirclement.

Lloyd
Posts: 5021
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:54 pm

Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism

Unread post by Lloyd » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:35 pm

97727

SATURN NOVA DEBRIS ON EARTH?

PRIMORDIAL STAR, by CARDONA
[IMPACTS, IRIDIUM LAYERS & EXTINCTIONS -- CARDONA GAVE CREDENCE TO CONVENTIONAL DATING, PERHAPS, BUT THE FACT THAT SORTED STRATA CAN ONLY FORM IN MAJOR FLOODING INDICATES THAT ALL OF THE EXTINCTIONS & LAYERS OCCURRED DURING ONE OR MORE GREAT FLOODS OVER SHORT TIME PERIODS - LK]
_p207 As Adalberto Notarpietro could claim in 2001: "In the geological layers corresponding to 7 of [the major extinction - DC] layers, iridium has been found in high concentration, indicating a likely extraterrestrial cause."6
6 A. Notarpietro, 'Earth in Upheaval' of Velikovsky and Catastrophes of Extraterrestrial Origin in History of Earth," Proceedings of the Symposium - Fifty Years After Worlds in Collision by Velikovsky: Classical and New Scenarios on the Evolution of the Solar System (Bergamo, 2002), p. 135.
_... the earliest extinction that is presently known [is] the Precambrian period dated to 590 million years ago....
_p208 In China, the by now tell-tale signs of a high iridium level have been detected at the very boundary between the Precambrian and Cambrian periods, just "before the Cambrian explosion of invertebrate evolution."2
_... "A more certain finding of raised iridium at the Ordovician-Silurian boundary has come from sites on Anticosti Island, Quebec, and Doh's Linn, Scotland.
_However, no microtektites or other evidence of an impact were present, and the investigators concluded that the high iridium concentrations could have arisen from erosion of exposed upper mantle rocks."5
_The next major extinction transpired at the end of the Devonian period, dated to 360 million years ago.
_A 120 mile wide impact crater from this period is located north of Perth in Australia.
_Of the asteroid that supposedly carved this crater it was said that it "was not vaporised but incorporated itself in the surrounding granite, which was uplifted and is enriched in minerals, including gold."9
_p209 Following that, the Permian-Triassic transition, calculated to have transpired 250 million years ago, dwarfed all previous boundary exterminations.
_... "And according to an exhaustive fossil census [Doug] Erwin and his colleagues conducted last year, the Permian extinction may have gone down virtually overnight.
_p210 Eventually ... an iridium abundance was found, "though not confirmed," at the Late Permian extinction horizon in China.1
_The proposed crater for this event was ultimately located in Australiahalf of it is now under the sea.
_What remains is "a large underwater dome" ... named the Bedout High.2
_Luann Becker ... dated shocked materials from the site at 250.7 million years. Melted minerals of a similar age were also located across Australia and other parts
of the world....
_The 125-mile wide crater has been calculated to have been created by an object 6 to 9 miles across, "possibly big enough to help trigger major geologic events."3
_... [It is] 160 kilometres southeast of Carnarvon, near Shark Bay."
_Although not considered as extensive as the Permian-Triassic boundary event, the next extinction, at the boundary of the Triassic and Jurassic periods, dated to 200 million years ago, was one of the three largest in the palaeontological record?
_p211 The Bay of Fundy [in Nova Scotia, Canada] site, "described as one of the largest fossil finds in North America," yielded "thousands of fragmentary remains of primitive dinosaurs
_The discovery of shocked quartz at the boundary was enough to convince most geologists what had happened.3
_p212 ... the Manicouagan Crater is the right age, but ... much smaller than the one at Chicxulub; ... five other craters on Earth, including two in Canada, which have been dated to approximately the same age as Manicouagan and formed at about the end of the Triassic.2
_"By pinpointing all five craters on a map of the planet's landmasses as they were 214 million years ago, the scientists have found they form a chain that stretches from the Ukraine, through France, and across North America.
_... Five meteorites hitting the earth at once could account for the unparalleled extinctions that mark the late Triassic period."3
_... And, once again, lake sediments from the era disclosed a layer that was rich in iridium.5
5 J. Winters, "Dinosaur's [sic.] Rise and Dominance Linked to an Earlier Asteroid Hit," Discover (January 2003, Special Issue), p. 76; see also C. Zimmer, "Dinosaurs," Discover (April 2005), p. 34.
_Following the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary and the death of the dinosaurs, another extinction event is evident between the Eocene and Oligocene, which are epochs within the Tertiary period itself, dated to some 36 million years ago.
_Like others before it, this boundary is also marked with microtektites.
_Moreover, R. Ganapathy has investigated this stratum from a core that was drilled in the Venezuelan Basin in which he discovered the expected high iridium levels.
_A separate team working under Walter Alvarez himself also found high iridium concentrations in similar cores from the Caribbean sea bed.
_These two sets further strengthened the case for an asteroidal impact as the cause for the extinctions at the end of the Eocene epoch.6
6 New Scientist (June 3, 1982), p. 647.
_Digby McLaren ... stated that the discoveries of strong iridium anomalies coincident with major extinctions not only strongly suggest a common cause, but that this cause is to be found in extraterrestrial impacts.
_p220 ... "the iridium in the [Cretaceous-Tertiary] layer could have come originally from volcanoes."3
_... Particles launched into the atmosphere by the eruption of the Kilauea volcano in Hawaii in January 1983 were found to contain as much as "a million times more iridium than norma1."4
_... [But] as Bruce Bohor of the U. S. Geological Survey countered, the shocked quartz associated with the iridium anomaly definitely points to a high impact event.5
_... More recent discoveries had apparently brought to light "even higher levels of iridium in Gubbio [Italy] clay" that had been "deposited long before and after the extinction of the dinosaurs."6
_... known impact craters did not always reveal a high level of iridium.
_Such, for instance, is the case with the melt rock of the Manicouagan Crater which contains very low iridium concentrations.7
_On the other hand, high iridium concentrations have been found in sediments which do not correspond to any known extinctions.8
_p224 Keller's findings indicated that the impact which created the Chicxulub Crater occurred 300,000 years before the dinosaurs died out.
_Samples from a new core drilled within the impact site revealed that the impacted glassy spherules from the crater, as well as other localities in Central America, were actually imbedded in a stratum that predated the K-T mass extinction by that amount of years.
_Detailed analysis of micro-organisms lent further credibility to the date.5
_Worst of all, no iridium has ever been found in association with the Chicxulub crater itself.6
_... [Keller & others say] "impacts that leave Chicxulub-size craters and smaller cannot by themselves cause significant species extinctions."8
_p225-226 ... [Another candidate is] the Shiva Crater, a depression with a central peak, that scars the bottom of the Indian Ocean west of Mumbai.
_Somewhat tear-drop shaped, the crater measures 600 by 400 kilometers and has been calculated to have been gouged by a meteorite 40 kilometers across.1
_p237 What the heat from proto-Saturn's flare-ups would have done is ignite forest fires throughout the world.
_This would account for the layers of soot found in strata in association with the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary.
_... "Globally the soot amounts to nearly 70 billion tons of residue.
_It is the ash of the Cretaceous world."11
10 D. A. Kring & D. D. Durda, "The Day the World Burned," Scientific American (December 2003), p. 100.
11 Ibid.
_p239 From where we now stand, it is difficult to tell from where and how the proto-Saturnian system could have collected its impacting debris.
_... the Saturnian moons [numbered] ... 56 as of December 2006.3

NEWBORN STAR, by CARDONA
[AXIS TILT, OR WOBBLE]
_p176 [Carey said] "If Ceres, the largest asteroid with a diameter of 1025 km and a mass of 10^19 metric tons, collided tangentially with the earth, the impact might change [Earth's] axis by about 10°"
_... we do not hold to Talbott's contention that, previous to proto-Saturn's axial coupling with Earth, the dwarf sun's apparent stability had to have been achieved through other means.
_... Earth had been axially aligned with its proto-Satumian brown dwarf sun from its very inception.
_p176-177 Earth was temporarily dislodged from its primordial axial alignment with proto-Satum, even if only to an extent.
_And, Carey notwithstanding, this would not have been due to impacts, despite the multifarious blows to Earth from proto-Saturn's emitted debris.
_In actuality, Earth's dislodgement from its axial alignment with its primordial sun would have resulted from proto-Satum's flare-up.
_As we have repeatedly noted, and as indicated by brown dwarf flares, this would have been caused by proto-Saturn's bipolar axial discharge, the southern outburst of which would have been unswervingly targeted toward Earth's north rotational pole.
_It would have been unlikely, to put it mildly, for Earth not to have succumbed to this direct electro/gravitational discharge.
_The dislocation suffered by Earth due to this catastrophic emanation would have tended to set it wobbling on its axis much as the mytho-historical records pronounce.
_But here's the snag: Worldwide earthquakes and all that would have accompanied them - volcanic eruptions, landslides, hurricanes, and so forth - would have plagued mankind to no end.
_And, needless to say, no one would need to have been told that the earth beneath their feet was shaking heavily.
_But that is not the earth that they reported to have been wobbling.
_The wobbling earth in question - the original earth at the mercy of the abyss that van der Sluijs mentions - would have been the created earth of myth, the celestial earth, or what in time became misconstrued as the earth, that we discussed in Chapter 9.
_True enough - and here's the irony - it actually was the undulating Earth that made proto-Saturn and its diminished circumstellar disk appear to wobble and wander about.
_But due to their lack of knowledge concerning geological and astronomical matters, survivors of the event could not have realized that it was all due to the wobbling Earth beneath their feet.
_As we have also noted, the so-called creation of this celestial ea1th is not to be interpreted as the actual formation of proto-Saturn.
_What was essentially witnessed was the spectacular transformation that the proto-Saturnian sun underwent in the wake of its dramatic flare-up.

Monitor [Journals] [SIS Review]
[CHICXULUB IMPACT AT YOUNGER DRYAS?]
__New angle on Chicxulub Discover 26.2 .97, p. 26
_Analysis of impact craters on other planets gave clues as to the angle of impact of the giant asteroid which caused the Cretaceous-Tertiary event.
_It appears to have had an oblique impact which would shoot a searing vapour cloud northwards over North America, which suffered three times the rate of plant extinction of the rest of the world.
_Land animals also suffered worse than fresh water ones, as would be expected if the continent was set on fire.

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