The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light? If you have a personal favorite theory, that is in someway related to the Electric Universe, this is where it can be posted.
Demosophist
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The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:48 am

The Pais Effect: Resurgence - "The Pais Effect is the Generation of Extremely High Energy Densities, produced by the Accelerated Vibration (and /or the Accelerated Spin) of a Non-Equilibrium Plasma (can be a 'Cold' Plasma)---When Driven Far-From-Equilibrium at a 'particular' vibrational frequency the Plasma will experience Anomalous Behavior which can cause the Schwinger Limit to be achieved, thereby resulting in the Ripping apart / Tearing up of the Spacetime Fabric at the Quantum level---In this manner, the very Fundamental Fabric of our Quantum Reality can thus be affected."
I have to admit I had never heard of this, but I watched Ashton Forbes defend his thesis against a pretty low vibe attack without losing his cool, and his attitude impressed me. I'm not sure that the "quantum approach" is all that, but something is sure going on... eh?


https://youtu.be/N94mw4ZXDmQ

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by BeAChooser » Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:45 am

Thanks for posting this. A very fascinating interview and Pais is quite an interesting fellow.

Well … maybe this explains the UFOs we’re now hearing about?

And if the US or China are pursuing this successfully, then of course the US would ridicule the idea publicly now. And they would claim they are not creating such objects, even if they were. And, of course, the mainstream media would also ridicule it … since the MSM is now government controlled. We all know that.

Perhaps this shows why we should be spending money on plasma and electromagnetic research… rather than gnomes (dark matter, black holes, dark energy, etc) that have gone no where the last 50 years. I’d much rather spend a billion investigating this than yet another boondoggle to find dark matter.

And if this effect is created naturally in plasmoids, that might explain the high mass density the mainstream infers are black holes at the center of galaxies. Core mass density is the one difficult to explain part of the Alfven/Arrhenius/Lerner model of galaxy formation from the interaction of interacting Birkeland current carrying plasma filament pairs. Everything else that’s observed is explained by their model, including the rotation curves and the jets … which the mainstream still struggles to rationally explain.

PS … there was previous mention of this on the forum here: viewtopic.php?p=2338&hilit=pais#p2338 .

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by BeAChooser » Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:46 am

By the way, Demosophist ... to answer your title question? Probably nothing.

Demosophist
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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Tue Nov 28, 2023 5:55 am

BeAChooser wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 4:46 am By the way, Demosophist ... to answer your title question? Probably nothing.
It has everything to do with MH370. That was their big mistake:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jplx6LqY7g

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by BeAChooser » Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:16 am

Call me VERY, VERY skeptical. Why do we have to go there to promote what Pais suggests? If you want my opinion, the assertion that they tested some sort of device based on the Pais effect on MH370 is sheer LUNACY. All that does is discredit the idea of the PAIS effect in general. So if the government right now is trying to do that, as Pais suggested, how do you know the video at that link wasn't put out by the government? Perfect psyops.

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:02 am

BeAChooser wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 6:16 am
Call me VERY, VERY skeptical. Why do we have to go there to promote what Pais suggests? If you want my opinion, the assertion that they tested some sort of device based on the Pais effect on MH370 is sheer LUNACY. All that does is discredit the idea of the PAIS effect in general. So if the government right now is trying to do that, as Pais suggested, how do you know the video at that link wasn't put out by the government? Perfect psyops.
I don't see it as a matter of promotion so much as a reveal. Promotion is "old mentality" marketing, and the people in opposition to Ashton are clearly in the realm of marketing, and also clearly see him in those same terms. That's the reason for all the hurt feelings. Ashton, on the other hand, is just interested in presenting the evidence.

To put it another way, it's not entirely irrelevant that we already have this technology. It's not in early development. The MH370 was probably not a test. Ashton has even tracked down the likely person who sent the original videos who was arrested and served time (6 years out of a 9 year sentence): Lt. Commander Edward C. Lin whose code name was Rogue Archer.

So they don't need to test a device. That's just one theory and he doesn't seem to be taking a position on it. He's not that interested in the motive. There are a couple of other scenarios that could have led to the incident, and the most charitable is that they simply decided to rescue a doomed flight. Also, their attention was possibly on the flight because of the personnel and technology that was on board, including 500 pounds of Li-ion batteries... and possibly other tech. There is some documentation that there was a team of tech people onboard. I think he wrote a paper on that. So the issue is that this is not a technology under the early stages of development, but one that we've had for more than 30 years. Perhaps it wasn't perfected until we had the capability for AI. That would be a key piece.

Another aspect of what Forbes is doing is making the observation that we can, in fact, know things. This is counter to the prevailing mentality that everything important is unknowable, and we just have to accept this profound level of nescience. This is a holdover from Kantianism, and it appears to be the baseline fig leaf that many of these podcasters insist upon, because it protects them. It's their basic inbuilt level of impedance, so why be offended by it? They all see Forbes as "arrogant" because he doesn't adopt this position, and his certainty hurts their feelings. It's quite an odd reaction. And they're all projecting their own hurt feelings onto him... but he doesn't appear to be hurt or offended at all. If that's an act, he really has his chops down. This is what is meant my the term "mentality": a mass frame of reference that influences perception. But we're no longer in a mass media environment, we're in a distributive media environment which operates according to different rules. The "old media," as figure, is offended by the new ground. And the impulse to always take offense is looking very exhausted.

Demosophist
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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:20 am

Here's his most recent "Hard Truths" interview, with a fellow named Dave Rossi. Rossi's explanation sounds coherent, although it may be completely crazy. How could an explanation sound coherent and yet be potentially crazy? Well, read Finnegans Wake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dR0jyE_SEk

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:12 am

And this one is with Greenyer. At one point the patterns he's discussing look very much like the petroglyphs, or are at least implied by the neolithic petroglyphs, which are related to the vortex/torus that create, electromagnetically, the plasmoids up and down the scale. This all related to "ball lightning" at various scales.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dR0jyE_SEk

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Wed Nov 29, 2023 2:51 am

Sorry about multiple posts. Apparently I can't delete the duplicates. Just wanted to note that both Pais and Greenyer are building their theory on gravitational waves, as if electromagnetism is an insignificant side product... but they know it isn't . They know it's a force 40 orders of magnitude greater than gravity but they're still talking about "black holes". It's gravity that is the byproduct. Black holes are like a false memory.

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by BeAChooser » Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:11 am

Demosophist wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:02 am I don't see it as a matter of promotion so much as a reveal. ... snip ... And the impulse to always take offense is looking very exhausted.
Demosophist, it didn’t take me more than a few minutes to find various reasons to discount the legitimacy of the MH370 video.

First, this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu187Et1qc points out where the supposed image of the plane disappearing in a flash into a *portal* came from ... from stock VFX elements. Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/ ... d_for_the/. That link shows side by side comparisons of the portal in the alleged MH370 video and a stock VFX element that matches. Here's another exact match that was found between the alleged MH370 portal and a Pyromania! VFX clip. In other words, the MH370 video is clearly FAKE.

But there's even more proof of that here ...

https://observers.france24.com/en/asia- ... lost-plane

“Scott Brando, who founded UFO of Interest which is focused on debunking hoaxes about UFOs, told us that the video is likely a graphic creation. He even found a version of the video shared on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/104295906/description) in August 2014 by a UFO enthusiast group.” The first line of the description under the video says this … ”A video editing enthusiast has created what the disappearance of Maylasia Airlines flight MH370 could have been like, where 239 souls disappeared on March 8, 2014."

And, as noted in the article, Janne Ahlberg of HoaxEye (https://twitter.com/hoaxeye) examined the video and reported this: “I downloaded a higher resolution copy of the first video, alleged satellite footage with some letters and numbers half-visible on the screen.” (BAC - Note that a blowup of the numbers and letters, “NROL-3 8 828815 93 195896”, is provided and they are indeed visible on the Vimeo video linked above.) Ahlberg continues … “I’m pretty sure the video maker wanted viewers to believe the satellite is NROL-33 based on what we can see on that clip. … snip … NROL-33 is a real military satellite, but it was launched on May 22, 2014 – later than MH370 incident. So if the video maker wanted viewers to believe the footage is from NROL-33 satellite, it can't be true.” HoaxEye also notes that “Later copies [...] have edited the clip so that the “mystery coordinates” are not visible.” (Indeed, the video Ashton Forbes showed, that you linked, doesn’t have the letters and numbers.)

One more thing, the article points out that the original upload of the footage (http://web.archive.org/web/201405251009 ... Ok1A1fSzxY) was NOT attributed to MH370. Only subsequent uploads made the assertion that it was MH370. So maybe this is HOAX that’s been resurrected to try and discredit Pais. Nothing more.

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:28 am

BeAChooser wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:11 am
Demosophist wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 12:02 am I don't see it as a matter of promotion so much as a reveal. ... snip ... And the impulse to always take offense is looking very exhausted.
Demosophist, it didn’t take me more than a few minutes to find various reasons to discount the legitimacy of the MH370 video.

First, this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu187Et1qc points out where the supposed image of the plane disappearing in a flash into a *portal* came from ... from stock VFX elements. Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/ ... d_for_the/. That link shows side by side comparisons of the portal in the alleged MH370 video and a stock VFX element that matches. Here's another exact match that was found between the alleged MH370 portal and a Pyromania! VFX clip. In other words, the MH370 video is clearly FAKE.

But there's even more proof of that here ...

https://observers.france24.com/en/asia- ... lost-plane

“Scott Brando, who founded UFO of Interest which is focused on debunking hoaxes about UFOs, told us that the video is likely a graphic creation. He even found a version of the video shared on Vimeo (https://vimeo.com/104295906/description) in August 2014 by a UFO enthusiast group.” The first line of the description under the video says this … ”A video editing enthusiast has created what the disappearance of Maylasia Airlines flight MH370 could have been like, where 239 souls disappeared on March 8, 2014."

And, as noted in the article, Janne Ahlberg of HoaxEye (https://twitter.com/hoaxeye) examined the video and reported this: “I downloaded a higher resolution copy of the first video, alleged satellite footage with some letters and numbers half-visible on the screen.” (BAC - Note that a blowup of the numbers and letters, “NROL-3 8 828815 93 195896”, is provided and they are indeed visible on the Vimeo video linked above.) Ahlberg continues … “I’m pretty sure the video maker wanted viewers to believe the satellite is NROL-33 based on what we can see on that clip. … snip … NROL-33 is a real military satellite, but it was launched on May 22, 2014 – later than MH370 incident. So if the video maker wanted viewers to believe the footage is from NROL-33 satellite, it can't be true.” HoaxEye also notes that “Later copies [...] have edited the clip so that the “mystery coordinates” are not visible.” (Indeed, the video Ashton Forbes showed, that you linked, doesn’t have the letters and numbers.)

One more thing, the article points out that the original upload of the footage (http://web.archive.org/web/201405251009 ... Ok1A1fSzxY) was NOT attributed to MH370. Only subsequent uploads made the assertion that it was MH370. So maybe this is HOAX that’s been resurrected to try and discredit Pais. Nothing more.
I'd suggest you look into this more deeply. None of the so-called "debunks" are what they seem to be. This video demonstrates that the lobe matching that was done fails to note that there are probably thousands of dispersion patterns that match as well an the VFX video. It's a common instability pattern. I realize that's far fetched until you consider what Tony discovered about instability patterns. Apparently something like this also applies to explosions and implosions. The so-called match only matches one frame, and it matches only part of the perimeter.

I do think it's possible that this was a computer generated image... because that's what scanning satellites do. So, of course it's computer imaging. Also there is some confusion about the satellite ID number. There is a lot of material on his website that debunks the debunkers, and they're no longer even bothering to defend that realm because they believe they've answered all of the doubts.

I'm not prepared to say that the video is genuine, but it does look like it hasn't been proved to be fake. But you do have to get a bit deeper into it to catch that drift. It's like anything that challenge the paradigm. Here is a link to a video that shows the lobe instability pattern matching and why it's rather common. They're called Taylor-Sedov Blast Wave Perturbations. I suspect that they're the result of fractal patterns:

https://twitter.com/level39/status/1728766051389964746

Here is another one, more in the fluid dynamics realm:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1728801822972784957

And here's another, somewhat more math oriented one:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1729314823039582609

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by BeAChooser » Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:27 pm

Demosophist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:28 am I'd suggest you look into this more deeply. None of the so-called "debunks" are what they seem to be. This video demonstrates that the lobe matching that was done fails to note that there are probably thousands of dispersion patterns that match as well a the VFX video.
If I could post images to this forum, that’s what I’d do right now in order to demonstrate to folks just how much you are grasping for straws. Anyone can look at the comparison of the portal and VFX footage at 0.59 seconds in the video I posted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu187Et1qc) and see that there are numerous details in the 60 degree arc of the explosion shown in the MH370 video that match the stock footage EXACTLY. The odds against that are ASTRONOMICAL.

And that’s not the only frame comparison that was made. The one shown at 1.06 in the video shows a similar match of features inside the explosion. In particular, the similarity of details highlighted in the lower red rectangle in both images are far too many to explain by coincidence. So does the one shown at 1:27 in the video, where the number of details matched in the two red boxes is far beyond what you’d get by coincidence. Then there is the matter of the contrails jumping around that’s noted next. I agree with the videos moderator, real life contrails do not do what is seen in the video. You’re the one grasping at straws.
Demosophist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:28 amIt’s a common instability pattern.
Really? Then prove it. Provide a source that shows that same “common” instability pattern. Must be dozens of sources that do that, right? Maybe even peer reviewed papers on those instability patterns. Oh ... you tried to didn't you ...
Demosophist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:28 am Here is a link to a video that shows the lobe instability pattern matching and why it's rather common.

https://twitter.com/level39/status/1728766051389964746
Nice try but there isn’t ONE image in this video where the pattern “matches”, much less “exactly matches”, the 60 degree arc already pointed out for comparison. Their BEST comparison is between claimed Royal Astronomical Society data (notice that they don't actually give a source you can check) and a different 60 degree arc in the MH370 video … one that has much less pronounced details (call them wiggles) than the first 60 degree arc ... and therefore would be much easier to match, if they could.

They claim it’s an “almost perfect match” with the MH370 footage when, in fact, it hardly matches the MH370 arc’s wiggles at all over much of that arcs length. Basically, they found ONE bump on the inner surface of the blast wave along that entire link that *sort of* matches. The rest of the details along the arc are washed out and don’t match … not even on the other side of the blast wave where the bump is located (which the MH370 video debunking arc does match).

The rest of the claimed matches to the MH370 image in the video are even more laughable. They don’t even try to show detailed side by side comparisons ... because they don't match. They're effective claiming two balls perfectly match because they're both round. :roll: Seriously, Demosophist, don’t be a 9/11 Truther. If you pursue this like they pursued their nonsense, you’re only going to discredit yourself. You’ll only harm the effort to get Pais taken seriously. Is that what you want?
Demosophist wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:28 am Here is another one, more in the fluid dynamics realm:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1728801822972784957

And here's another, somewhat more math oriented one:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1729314823039582609
NOTHING in either of those matches the MH370 footage. No even close. But a D for effort.

I also notice that you didn’t address the meaning of the letters and numbers at the bottom of the image in the original MH370 video that certainly suggest the video is a complete fake, nor the fact that the first posting of the video didn’t mention MH370 and actually said the video “created what the disappearance of Maylasia Airlines flight MH370 could have been like.” And contrary to what you claim, there is no confusion about the ID number implied in the video. And if that’s not an indicator of the satellite from which the imagery supposedly came, then what is that number? And why, once that was pointed out, the effort in later versions of this video to hide those numbers? Again, I think you’re grasping at straws and in the process making it even harder to get the idea suggested by Pais accepted. Why do that? Why not just stick to the veracity and meaning of the equations he mentioned?

Demosophist
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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:47 am

If I could post images to this forum, that’s what I’d do right now in order to demonstrate to folks just how much you are grasping for straws. Anyone can look at the comparison of the portal and VFX footage at 0.59 seconds in the video I posted (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMu187Et1qc) and see that there are numerous details in the 60 degree arc of the explosion shown in the MH370 video that match the stock footage EXACTLY. The odds against that are ASTRONOMICAL.
Anyone can tell that the match is not exact. The peaks and valleys are more or less in the same place, which is a phenomenon called correlation and the correlation on that characteristic is high... but it isn't 1. The amplitude of the wave and the periodicity are also not exact, and in fact are probably less than .5 so you're reading exactitude into the data, which is a perceptual effect. Finally, you can't compute the odds because your starting point is the denial of a common pattern. You're starting from the assumption that the pattern is random when it clearly isn't, any more than the patterns that Peratt studied are random. Other comments you make along this line have the same flaw.
https://twitter.com/level39/status/1728766051389964746
Nice try but there isn’t ONE image in this video where the pattern “matches”, much less “exactly matches”, the 60 degree arc already pointed out for comparison. Their BEST comparison is between claimed Royal Astronomical Society data (notice that they don't actually give a source you can check) and a different 60 degree arc in the MH370 video … one that has much less pronounced details (call them wiggles) than the first 60 degree arc ... and therefore would be much easier to match, if they could.
I would never have thought that perception could play such a large role as it does in this case. The Astronomical Society match looks pretty exact to me. You appear to be saying that the person who documents commonality among Taylor-Fared [Note: I mean Taylor-Sedov, haha.] patterns is somehow lying about it? I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree about that.

Image

And remember, we're not trying to get an exact match. That's hyperbole. What we're saying is that there is a commonality of instability patterns making it easy to find a match that looks exact within the parameter of human perception.
I also notice that you didn’t address the meaning of the letters and numbers at the bottom of the image in the original MH370 video that certainly suggest the video is a complete fake,
The frame with the numbers cuts them off at the midpoint, which appears to cause many people to read a "2" as a "3" but there is enough of the image showing that it clearly is a "2" if you look closely. But if you think otherwise, we'll have to agree to disagree about that too. Anyway, this is also "rebunked" pretty thoroughly an Ashton's site. Note the two numbers on the left that can be misread as "33" but are, in fact "22," so is referencing the NROL-22 satellite, not NROL-33.

Image

Again, I'm amazed at what people claim they see in relation to this controversy. They tend to read "intent" into everything, without bothering about other facts and how they're related. There is clearly something going on here that breaks with common assumptions about physics. I have my own ideas about what it is, but I'll leave you to yours. There is no great urgency to leap to a conclusion.

[Update: Having said all that, I suppose it's possible that the video could have been faked, if you ignore the timeline which would make it very unlikely. But if the physics paradigm was broken by 2014 as is claimed by Ashton, et al, then it's certainly possible that there were image editing capabilities that, in theory, could have faked it. What I'm saying is that the certainty that people have that it's fake is unjustified.]

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:59 am

One more thing. As Ashton says, what are taken to be contrails aren't. They're smoke. Contrails don't exist at that elevation. Having said that there is something like a crosshatch pattern of... some condensate, that isn't related to the plane. These might be contrails, but what are they doing there? Are these part of the search pattern? What is there elevation? They appear to be below the cumulous clouds, but it's hard to tell.

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Re: The Pais Effect, and what it might have to do with MH370?

Unread post by Demosophist » Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:28 am

Here's another picture of a Darrieus-Landau instability, that shows the fractal geometry of the patterns. Apparently about all you need to do to become semi-famous is to identify an instability pattern and they'll name it after you. Easy peasy.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1729192371446050859

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