Thunderbolts Forum v3.0

[quote="Holger Isenberg" post_id=8094 time=1665936768 user_id=7829]
[quote=Phorce post_id=8093 time=1665933965 user_id=6771]
[url=https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap221013.html]Is this the same object[/url] ?
They say "shells" but it looks 2D to me.
[/quote]But the light intensity gradients between the rings still look more like the visual rings caused by the plasma double layers in SAFIRE, see the last link in my first positing to the SAFIRE video. 3d-shells seen from the side look like rings.
[/quote]

Looks like you nailed it [url=https://twitter.com/areoinfo/status/1619397049480540160]in a recent Tweet[/url].

[quote=Phorce post_id=8093 time=1665933965 user_id=6771]
[url=https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap221013.html]Is this the same object[/url] ?
They say "shells" but it looks 2D to me.
[/quote]

Yes. Last week the image was again in press releases by NASA and Canadian space agency and the wording switched to rings now. In the past, before the JWST photo, it was most often described as spirals.

The animation in the new JPL video about it looks like the author keep it open to later potentially use it to explain rings or in the 3d-shape concentric shells: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssJ_I5loCbc

To explain it as rings or shells with non-charged plain dust, you would need some pulsing effect and the JPL video looks like it goes into that direction.

But the light intensity gradients between the rings still look more like the visual rings caused by the plasma double layers in SAFIRE, see the last link in my first positing to the SAFIRE video. 3d-shells seen from the side look like rings.

Hi. [url=https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap221013.html]Is this the same object[/url] ?

They say "shells" but it looks 2D to me. If they were shells you'd only be able to see [url=https://constantamateur.github.io/2018-01-02-tSNE/]something like[/url] ...

[attachment=0]nestedSpheres.jpg[/attachment]

[quote]the process of dust production and the amount of the ejected dust are still open questions[/quote]

HAHAH, yeah, I bet... silly dust rabbits.

Earth-based 2.2µm IR images showing more hints towards a spiral than concentric rings:
https://spaceref.com/science-and-exploration/unraveling-a-spiral-stream-of-dusty-embers-from-a-massive-binary-stellar-forge/
https://arxiv.org/pdf/0712.2111v1.pdf

A visually identical effect was observed in JWST images of Jupiter:
https://twitter.com/ed2k21/status/1549417880747474953 and
https://twitter.com/spacegeck/status/1549426064690032640

Either diffraction bands or imaging artifacts there; still an open question.

The observation plan talks about "7 fossil dust arcs" which are expected to be seen. That may be based on papers like https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ab9cb5 where the concentric rings are modeled as a single spiral, caused by the 8yr rotation period of the binary. In the JWST image it is difficult to interpret whether they are concentric rings as in the SAFIRE experiment or spirals as proposed.

Here some context about the observation plan these images were taken for:

https://www.stsci.edu/jwst/science-execution/program-information.html?id=1349
Principal Investigator: Ryan Lau
PI Institution: ISAS, Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency
Title: Establishing Extreme Dynamic Range with JWST: Decoding Smoke Signals in the Glare of a Wolf-Rayet Binary
JWST Proposal 1349 (Created: Monday, July 25, 2022 at 12:00:13 PM Eastern Standard Time)

While the web page shows ISAS as PI institute, the PDF lists Caltech with a noirlab.edu email address for Ryan Lau, so he either moved from ISAS to Caltech or vice versa.

Surprising to see that the observation plan was filed only 4 days ago. Though there might have been a placeholder schedule entry before, I don't know.

In the reddit link article … “Dust is a key ingredient in the formation of stars”. Really?

That’s about the stupidest statement possible. And you might be right, Holger Isenberg.

I'm not sure yet if those concentric dust rings are just imaging artifacts by the telescope optics, sensors or AD conversion at low SNR. But if they are real we are most likely seeing concentric double layers like observed at SAFIRE!

https://www.reddit.com/r/jameswebbdiscoveries/comments/wb4qa7/the_dust_clouds_of_the_wolfrayet_140_bianary_star

more images in different processing stages: https://www.flickr.com/photos/196161576@N06/

The SAFIRE Sun, thunderbolts.info video, layers visible around 3:00:
https://youtu.be/ZBInhPFFVog?t=180