Shine On

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Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:17 pm

A new thread --
Sunward Electrons

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=404

Re: Shine On

by Higgsy » Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:12 am

Brigit wrote:
Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm
I will show you the calcs in a moment, but first I'd like to tell you that the currents they are speaking of do not only power the sun, they power the galaxies.
Perhaps it would be better to open a topic in the Electric Universe section of the forum than to continue this discussion here?

Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:29 pm

by Higgsy » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:04 am
1. A star is formed electromagnetically, not gravitationally, and is powered thereafter electrically (by Eddington’s “subtle radiation”).
Do you or Wal have any idea or model for how that might work within the Sun and where we can find the currents in the solar system necessary to power the Sun electrically to the tune of 10^26W?
I will show you the calcs in a moment, but first I'd like to tell you that the currents they are speaking of do not only power the sun, they power the galaxies.

Re: Shine On

by Higgsy » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:04 pm

Brigit wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm
THE SUN — Our Variable Star
November 9th, 2003
https://www.holoscience.com/wp/the-sun- ... able-star/
Important Consequences of the Electric Star Model for the Sun

1. A star is formed electromagnetically, not gravitationally, and is powered thereafter electrically (by Eddington’s “subtle radiation”).
Do you or Wal have any idea or model for how that might work within the Sun and where we can find the currents in the solar system necessary to power the Sun electrically to the tune of 10^26W?

Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:15 pm

THE SUN — Our Variable Star
November 9th, 2003
https://www.holoscience.com/wp/the-sun- ... able-star/


Important Consequences of the Electric Star Model for the Sun

1. A star is formed electromagnetically, not gravitationally, and is powered thereafter electrically (by Eddington’s “subtle radiation”).

2. Near the Sun, galactic transmission lines are in the form of 0.3 parsecs wide rotating Birkeland filaments (based on those detected at the center of the Milky Way). Their motion relative to the Sun will produce a slowly varying magnetic field and current density –’ in other words a solar activity cycle. To that extent, all stars are variable. And just like real estate, location is vital.

3. An electric star has an internal radial electric field. But because plasma is an outstanding conductor it cannot sustain a high electric field. So plasma self-organizes to form a protective sheath or ‘double layer’ across which most of the electric field is concentrated and in which most of the electrical energy is stored. It is the release of that internal stored energy that causes CME’s, nova outbursts, polar jets, and the birth of stellar companions.

4. In a ball of plasma like the Sun the radial electric field will tend to be concentrated in shells or double layers above and beneath the photosphere. A double layer exists above the solar photosphere, in the chromosphere.

5. The photosphere and chromosphere together act like a pnp transistor, modulating the current flow in the solar wind.* It has an effective negative feedback influence to steady the energy radiated by the photosphere so that astrophysicists can talk of a ‘solar constant,’ while the Sun”s other external electrical activity (UV light and x-rays) is much more variable. Because the photosphere is an electrical plasma discharge phenomenon it also expands or contracts to adjust to its electrical environment. That explains why the Sun ‘rings’ like an electric bell.

6. Double layers may break down with an explosive release of electrical energy. A nova outburst is a result of the breakdown of an internal stellar DL. Hannes Alfvén suggested that billions of volts could exist across a typical solar flare double layer.

...

Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:03 pm

Figure 10 in his book looks like this:

https://electric-cosmos.org/PENFIL2.jpg

Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:02 pm

by jacmac » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:46 pm
"Our sun is basically a double layered plasma structure. The double layer(DL) in the chromosphere separates the two main plasma areas.
For some reason the EU community has not focused on this. No one has said: "The chromosphere IS the double layer(DL) in the sun."

Here is the relevant statement from The Electric Sky by Don Scott (2006) on the plasma double layer in the chromosphere:
Because of the Sun's positive voltage, it acts exactly like the anode (positive terminal) in a laboratory plasma discharge. As such, it exhibits many of the phenomena observed in earthbound plasmas, such as anode tufting. The granules observed on the surface of the photosphere are anode tufts (plasma cells in the arc mode).
Why do the tufts seem to disappear and then reemerge in relatively short periods of time? The voltage plot in the above figure is drawn for positively charged particles. In order to visualize the effect this energy diagram has on electrons coming in toward the Sun from cosmic space (from the right), we can simply turn this energy plot upside down. (Electrons are negative charges, and what is a high energy level for a +ion is a low energy level for an electron.)
Doing this allows us to visualize the "trap" (or pit) that each photospheric tuft is for incoming electrons. As the trap fills with electrons, the bottom of this inverted pit will rise, and so the tuft weakens, shrinks, and eventually disappears. This is the cause of the observed shrinkage and disappearance of photospheric granules.
Another tuft immediately replaces each disappearing tuft -- remember the lifelike ability of plasma to sustain itself.

The high-voltage plasma in the photosphere is separated from the low voltage plasma of the lower corona by the chromosphere. The voltage drop from the top (photosphere) to the bottom (lower corona) of the potential hill is in the order of 10^9 V or more.
This chromospheric layer is approximately 2000 km wide (high).. It contains a plasma double layer (DL). Most of the radio-frequency noise emitted by the Sun emanates from this region. Radio noise is a well-known property of DLs.

Re: Shine On

by jacmac » Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:39 pm

J P Michael:
And for those with attentive ears, this kind of language is sounding a lot more like cellular biology!
Irving Langmuir started using the term PLASMA because it's "life like" properties reminded him of blood plasma.
Our natural environment, the UNIVERSE, seems to be made up of mostly plasma.

Our living selves and all the biology around us has somehow grown out of this environment.
The cellular biology like structure of our solar system was here first, exists on a more massive scale, and is self organized.
Therefore, I suggest we say that LIFE IS PLASMA LIKE.

Focusing more attention on the cell like structure of the solar system and the double layer abilities of plasma is a natural compliment to our discussion of the electric currents and discharges involved in solar physics.

Jack

Re: Shine On

by JP Michael » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:05 pm

Solar wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:58 pm
So instead of exclusively viewing “double layers” as some type of solid wall, a “force field”, or sheath - despite the fact that they ALSO perform those functions - the Voyager probes suggest that they are actually a type of “membrane” possessing the qualities of being “porous”, and/or “permeable”. It has already been established that material from the ISM and IGM can be found inside the heliosphere and that material from inside the heliosphere can be found just outside of same (Voyager data). In order for that to be the case those species need to bidirectionally travel across said "permeable membrane".
And for those with attentive ears, this kind of language is sounding a lot more like cellular biology! I believe this has been pointed out by other EU pundits, and offers an interesting link between macro and micro structures in the universe.

Re: Shine On

by Solar » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:58 pm

Although it can be said (on the one hand) that the heliosphere “isolates’”, “separates”, and/or “protects” the inner solar environment from the outer; this approach is a relative point of view. Astrophysics itself has made the very same protective "force field" analogy but data from the Voyager probes suggest that …
… the implications of this new finding, said Opher, is also that the heliosheath is very different from what scientists expected. She prefaced by saying that any earlier ideas about the region was only conjecture since no spacecraft has been there before. “We thought heliopause would be a smooth surface and shield us from intergalactic cosmic rays,” she said. “It is not a shield but more like a membrane that is a sea of bubbles.” - Voyagers Find Giant Jacuzzi-like Bubbles at Edge of Solar System
And
It is highly likely the mass of individual magnetic structures actually makes the Solar System more porous to cosmic rays.

"It's more like a membrane that is permeable to the galactic cosmic rays, so we expect the galactic cosmic rays to enter and slowly wander through this sea of magnetic bubbles until they can access field lines that connect back to the Sun and quickly escape," explained Professor Parker. - Voyagers ride 'magnetic bubbles’
So instead of exclusively viewing “double layers” as some type of solid wall, a “force field”, or sheath - despite the fact that they ALSO perform those functions - the Voyager probes suggest that they are actually a type of “membrane” possessing the qualities of being “porous”, and/or “permeable”. It has already been established that material from the ISM and IGM can be found inside the heliosphere and that material from inside the heliosphere can be found just outside of same (Voyager data). In order for that to be the case those species need to bidirectionally travel across said "permeable membrane". Needless to say that were it not for the presence of the heliosphere “double layer(s)” there would be a LOT more cosmic rays bombarding the inner solar system. Therefore, these amorphous “double layer structures” perform “modulation” functions (“modifying, but not canceling” as Brigit says) and might also be characterized as being “leaky”.

The situation can be viewed from either of those interpretations and still be 'correct' relative to the modulation function. Its why one can find papers such as ...

A Study of Heliospheric Modulation and Periodicities of Galactic Cosmic Rays During Cycle 24 - Partha Chowdhury et al

Re: Shine On

by paladin17 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:46 pm

Current theories on solar wind acceleration indeed include electric field - the one produced by supra-thermal (strahl) electrons emanating from the Sun and attracting slower thermal protons towards them.
The way this population of electrons is produced is not yet completely clear. One good possibility is that they may be created by Dreicer mechanism (production of runaway electrons by a parallel electric field) in a current-free double layer e.g. somewhere in the chromosphere or slightly above. Such a double layer would form anyway simply due to ambipolar diffusion.

Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:29 am

Don Scott: The Electric Solar Wind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFGb7NlUvgg&t=183s
Dur. 52:31

Beautiful discussion of SAFIRE observations included.

PS, Using the tool icon on the video, playback speed can be set at 1.25.
I listen to almost everything else at 1.5 to save a little time. You all probably know that setting already. :D

Re: Shine On

by Brigit » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:11 am

by jacmac » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:10 pm
For his own reasons Mr Smith does not restate, from seven years earlier, that the chromosphere is a double layer.

This is the reason for my first post here.
With a few exceptions mentioned, and others I have missed ?, the EU community does not discuss
THE SUN AS A DOUBLE LAYER.
I see your point.

Maybe part of the problem is that we have such a lot of publications by the EU that it is getting harder to remember where any particular subject is covered -- esp. with the number of Space News features and Conferences, which are verbal presentations.

But I think that one of the primary problems with astronomy is that the solar wind picks up speed as it leaves the sun. "How do you accelerate a charged particle? Put it in an electric field." (Who doesn't remember the first time hearing Don Scott say this?) (: The solar wind increasing in speed as it travels further out into the inner solar system is a natural consequence of an electric sun. This has always been pointed out by the Electric Universe. Double layers have a strong efield between them which accelerates particles. The last double layer is the heliosheath, at the boundary of the interstellar medium.

I will try to get some primary quotes from the books posted on this thread. In the meantime, there are some nice lectures by Don Scott which give very detailed explanation of potential differences experienced by the charged particles coming and going from the sun. He often uses very concrete images, such as water going over dams, to illustrate the motions of the ion traffic around the sun. When the acceleration of particles stops far above the sun, the random motion of the protons commences and is Brownian motion, which is manifested as heat. It is like the white, chaotic water at the bottom of a waterfall. I will link the talk too.

Re: Shine On

by jacmac » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:10 pm

From the Picture of the Day archive: found by Brigit:
Thanks Brigit.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2014/1 ... ging-view/
Stephen Smith says:
The Sun’s chromosphere is a plasma sheath, or double layer region of the Sun, where most of its electrical energy is contained. When the current flowing into the Sun’s plasma sheath increases beyond a critical threshold it can also trigger a sudden release of that energy, causing solar flares and gigantic prominence eruptions.
From the July 19 2020, Picture of the Day: Shine On
Stephen Smith says:
Sun’s heliospheric boundary is a double layer “cocoon”, isolating it from galactic plasmas flowing through the Interstellar Medium. Voltage differences occur within the heliosphere, so the Sun experiences charge/discharge phenomena related to variable electrical input from the Milky Way. Therefore, sunspots and flares most likely derive from changes in its electrical supply, indicating variable input from its galactic circuit.
For his own reasons Mr Smith does not restate, from seven years earlier, that the chromosphere is a double layer.

This is the reason for my first post here.
With a few exceptions mentioned, and others I have missed ?, the EU community does not discuss
THE SUN AS A DOUBLE LAYER.
The language used is electric discharge; and usually indicating a discharge to the heliosphere.
I am trying to encourage more attention onto double layers themselves; what, when, how, etc.

nick c:
My interest here is in learning. I am not a plasma physicist and
I do appreciate your(Eugene) contributions to the various discussions on this forum.
Jack

Re: Shine On

by paladin17 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:55 pm

nick c wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:33 pm
Eugene,
So are you taking the position that the fact that there are Chromospheric DLs, which is inside of the double layer at the heliopause; that is evidence that the Sun cannot be externally powered? Do you consider this a falsification of the theory of an externally powered Sun?
I am simply saying that Smith's logic in the quoted paragraph is invalid.

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